DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Oh those wacky Islamist Terrorists are at it again in Africa

As you read this article take note as they point out foreign Jihadist fighters c rossing borders to assist the Muslim Terrorist fighters. And we dispute the fact that foreign fighters are in Iraq?????



Islamic Bloc Wants Ethiopian Forces Out of Somalia
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Managing Editor
December 27, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - As Ethiopian troops backing Somalia's weak interim government reported significant gains against Islamist forces with suspected links to al-Qaeda, a bloc of Islamic nations demanded that Ethiopia withdraw its forces from Somalia immediately.

But a State Department spokesman was quoted as saying that Ethiopia was acting out of "a legitimate and genuine security concern."

Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, secretary general of the 56-state Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), warned in a statement issued in Saudi Arabia that the fighting could "engulf the entire region and even beyond."

Ethiopian warplanes reportedly launched air strikes against Islamist positions this week, following several days of artillery firing between the two sides.

In what has become an increasingly complex conflict, Ethiopia is backing Somalia's Transitional Federal Government (TFG) against the Islamic Court Union (ICU) -- also known by several other names including the Islamic Courts Council -- which seized control of Mogadishu after routing a reportedly U.S.-supported alliance of warlords and businessmen last June.

ICU advances had raised concerns that the TFG -- which is based not in the capital but the town of Baidoa northwest of Mogadishu -- could be toppled, but Ethiopia's intervention appears to have shifted the balance.

The Islamists, meanwhile, are being supported militarily by Ethiopia's longstanding foe, Eritrea, and the U.N. said in a recent report that as many as eight more nations -- including Iran, Saudi Arabia and other Muslim states as well as non-Muslim Uganda -- have been providing weaponry and equipment to the warring sides.

Furthermore, foreign jihadists are reported to have entered the country to fight alongside the Islamists. Ethiopia, like the U.S., charges that the Islamists have links to al-Qaeda. ICU founder Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys, who in the 1990s led the radical al-Ittihad al-Islami group, is on U.S. and U.N. terrorist lists.

In his statement, Ihsanoglu urged all Somalis and neighboring countries "to exercise utmost restraint and responsibility" and said the U.N. should play an effective role in stabilizing the situation.

The official Ethiopian News Agency Tuesday quoted Prime Minister Meles Zenawi as saying that Ethiopian and TFG forces "have broken the back of international terrorist forces in and around Baidoa, and the latter are now in full retreat."

He told a press conference that those wounded in the fighting included "international terrorists."

Meles said the Ethiopian forces had no plans to invade any Somali cities. "We are not after towns, we are after the terrorist groups."

He said the mission -- to protect Ethiopia from terrorists and their backers -- was half-accomplished, and once it was completed, "we will be out of there."

"They pose a very serious threat to us," Meles said. "Our mission is to stop that by degrading their military capability to hurt us. Once we have done that, we have completed our mission."

He also confirmed that there had been what he called a "very limited" air raid on Mogadishu international airport. "The intention was not to cause damage, but to warn off civilian planes that are being chartered to ferry Eritrean troops and ammunition into Mogadishu."

He said he hoped dialogue between the Islamists and TFG would be "revitalized."

But addressing a press conference in Mogadishu, a senior Islamist leader signaled little willingness to consider a negotiated settlement. Sharif Sheikh Ahmed said the Islamic Court Union was "ready to start long-lasting war with Ethiopia."

Wire services Tuesday quoted State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos as saying the Ethiopian military had acted at the request of the TFG.

"We see, and understand, they are facing a legitimate and genuine security concern," he said.

The U.S. military presence nearest to the conflict zone is in the tiny country of Djibouti, located between Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia. Almost 2,000 personnel comprise the Combined Joint Task Force -- Horn of Africa, whose responsibilities include counter-terror training of African militaries and humanitarian projects.

Somalia has been without an effective central government since the dictatorship of Mohamed Siad Barre collapsed amid a civil war in 1991.

The interim administration was formed with U.N. support in neighboring Kenya two years ago and subsequently relocated to Somalia but was unable to base itself in the capital because of the unstable situation.

Since we've become the experts at mediating civil wars with our troops,we better hurry up,unprepared,ill advised and start deploying troops there right away!
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we've been there for a while allready <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

If Clinton didn't screw up and pull out before the job was done, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

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My point here is to get your ideas as to how serious a world wide problem Muslim Extremism is in your views.

I'm not interested in rehashing WMD or our previous support of the Shah of Iran or the Royal Family in Saudi Arabia. I see the Islamists as the most serious danger to world stability and wonder how we should react to the threats...regardless of how we have gotten to this point.

I believe we are engulfed in a World War fighting a serious foe worldwide on 5 of the 7 continents. The enemy does not wear uniforms nor follow any civilized rules of engagement but does everything possible to subdue their opponent including terrorism against everyone involved.

I see. So let's not discuss all the mistakes we've made that have helped Muslim Extremism flourish,grow and develop to the stage it has gotten to. Let's not take any of the blame at all. That makes perfecrt sense to me.
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Heck yeah! We should take care of Africa,overthrow governments in the middle east and spread the military so thin,we can't really accomplish any of our goals in the long haul. And leave our soldiers in the cross hairs for an indefinate period of time while we're bungling everything.

Wait a minute,we're already doing that now. My bad.
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Dude, do you put any thought at all into what you are typing before you actually do it ? <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

I find it amazing that people still don't understand what is going on with islam at this time. They are colonizing. Muslims move into an area, and once they approach a majority, they declare that everyone must live under muslim law. It doesn't matter if you are muslim or not. They will achieve their goals by violence, as once they declare a region is under their law, the option of jihad is perfectly valid as is the import of islamic fighters from other regions.

It would not matter to these people if we wiped Israel off the map and gave the land to the palestinians or the caananites. We would still be the infidel in need of elimination. These invasions should be considered a holy war, as they seek to usurp the tradions, religions, and governments of the areas they settle.

France is the next center of conflict, as the fires set in the arab ghettos of france were just a test of the french resolve. The french showed their typical style of surrender by providing the arab population with all the consessions they demanded before the fires. This conflict could soon be on our boarder, as the canadians are giving the same consessions to their arab population.

Erik I agree completely with your assessment and your evaluation of the European[French] response. Canada is a bit tougher on these extremists but they accept all with open arms with very few exceptions.

Others on our board relish in the ability to point the bony finger of blame towards America as the cause of virtually all the unrest in the Middle East. They then compound the problem with the sole plan of negotiating peace with these non peaceful Islamic groups. Soon the negotiations break off or are violated constantly by them and we wonder what we did wrong again.

You know Pit you tend to become more whiny as the winter drones on. So tell me Pit...after we acknowledge that we should not have backed the Shah nor the Royal Family of Saudi...and we promise,promise to never discuss democracy or alternatives to Islam...do we go home expecting all to be well?

Do you think for a minute that they will not attempt to attack our interests throughout the world including in America? Pit, answer your email 'cause Neville Chamberlain has some advice for you.

...Lots of presidential aides would have cheaper dry cleaning bills <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

p.s. For those that enjoy learning from history.... pay attention to it as it is made in Somalia right now and over the next year or so because it is exactly what will be happening when we pull out of Iraq.

For those that wish to discount the spread of militant islam through force as described above... they too have a "one nation, under God" ideology, but their "the whole world as a nation of islam under allah". And this is nothing new, and it's not caused by the U.S. or 'phantom' WMDs or whatever.

What, is Turkey going to Invade Iraq and help install/prop up a U.S. friendly government ? We are now backing the exact same militia leaders that we were fighting in the 90's . The enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of diplomacy.

No Ralphie,all will not go well. That's why you need a leader for our nation who is wise,picks his battles carefully,uses sound strategies with a good background in military and diplomatic strategies.

You see,we weren't prepared for war. Our military was understaffed and we lacked the proper troop strengh to "occupy Iraq". The results of which has made us look foolish and weak. This war has only strengthenned the resolve of Muslim Extremists and has served no usefull purpose. It's been a strategical and diplomatic eyesore for the world to see. There's no legitimate reason for this to have occured. The main reason it did IMO,is the only man qualified in this administration to give advice on these matters,Colin Powell,was ignored totaly.

I don't claim to be a military genius,but I do feel I can logicly deduce obvious things. You see,we had the perfect oppertunity to attack Iran,not Iraq.
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We had Sadaam in check in 03 with U2 spy planes and U.N. inspecters all over Iraq. Every time we threatened invasion,Sadaam did what we said. So we could have played cat and mouse with Sadaam and never had a legitimate threat from him.

So it would have very logical to use Sadaam as a *decoy*. Giving the appearance we were out to attack Iraq,but building our military the entire time. Just imagine how strong our military could have been by 05,had we played cat and mouse with Sadaam,rather than attack him.

By 05,we would have been ready,equipped and manned,to attack Iran. And with them proclaiming to the world that they were developing nuclear capabilities,it would have been a very legitimate reason for war. And Iran never would have seen it coming.
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Because on the surface,they would think Iraq was our target. Because Sadaam would have merly been a decoy.

But unfortunately,we're now mired in a silly war that we weren't prepared for,because our president didn't have the foresight or know how,to use sound strategy.

So because of his poor strategy and lack of experience,or even knowing who the hell who to and who not to listen to,we have a serious threat in Iran,while we're hog tied in Iraq against a nation that was fairly impotent to start with.

I'm not against war. I'm not naive when it comes to the Islamic extremist threat. But my God man,there's a smart way to do things,then there's Bush's way.



You see,you've read me all wrong. Diplomacy with these people is nothing more than a stall tactic with Islamic extremists,not an answer to the problem. It simply allows you the time to prepare for war. But that in and of itself is a usefull tool. You plan,strategise and build up the proper weaponry and troop strength in the mean time.

This was not done in Iraq. You should choose your battles wisely. Not get bogged down for three plus years and who knows how much longer,by the weakest link in their chain. It makes you appear weak and impulsive just as we look now.

It's not "war itself" that I have an issue with. It's this war,done this way,at that time. It was and is a fiasco. And it's done nothing but make us look stupid and weak. That's my issue Ralphie.

It didn't have to be this way. And the only reason it is this way,is due to a bungling administration. Even Afghanastan is in dissaray because we're spread too thin.

My question to you is,do you think we used sound strategy and the proper troop strength in Iraq? Do you think it was the wisest target? Or should we have better "prepared" for war to begin with? I mean,Clinton did cut back the military,that's true enough. But who was the one who decided this small military was prepared for war and the following occupation of Iraq under those conditions?

I'm for "smart wars" Ralphie,not spur of the moment fiasco's we're not prepared for. I guess that's our main difference here Ralphie.

Good evaluation Pit...I commend you for the straightforward and thoughtful analysis. And while I agree in principle with most of your evaluation the problem remains...how do we attack the killer virus of Islamic extremists?

we can bring iran to its knees in 48 hours, we just can occupy it

Actually Ralphie,a pull out of Iraq would help very much in that department. You see,I think we can pretty much agree that Iraq,Turkey and Syria would all be struggling to support their respective factions for control of Iraq and the vast oil reserves in that nation.

Would it leave Iraq in chaos? Yes,it most certainly would. But what it would also do is this. It would have three very dangerous Muslim threats,basicly fighting each other for control of Iraq. It would keep them occupied and weakenning each other,while we re-group,and build up troop strength and increased weaponry.

We're really in need of regrouping to prepare for more serious threats and conflicts that will soon be forthcoming. By leaving Iraq,we not buy that time we need so desperatly,but it serves to weaken those adversaries by allowing them to struggle amongst themselves. It's a win/win IMO

In the mean time,we can declare victory in Iraq. Victory I say? Yes,victory. We overthrew Sadaam,created an electorial process and helped them set up a democratic government. We achieved the goals we "initialy" set out to do.

We can also use diplomacy,(decoy) with Iran,Turkey and Syria to give the appearance we're doing our best to help mediate peace in the region. (That makes us look good to the world community)
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We can say we achieved our goals and the current civil unrest in Iraq is something that we should not be involved in. That it's between the Iraqi people to settle their own disputes and civil unrest within their own country. Because it's been shown that the majority of Iraqi's want us out of their country. So we would simply be honoring the wishes of the majority of the citizens of Iraq at this point.

Then,when we have our military built up to the necassary levels to attack and be a legitimate superpower in the military aspect,we can pick and choose the best strategic targets to attack. Which at the present time would appear to be Iran.

And some of our current troop could be re-deployed to Afghanistan. Because things aren't very rosey there either. So we could be doing mop up operations there in the mean time as well. Get that little mess cleaned up to show the world we accomplished that mission as well.

I'm no military genius,but it appears this would be very sound strategy in becoming "war ready" to face far more severe and necassary battles against the war on terror.

JMHO

Yeah, and abandon those that do want our help and the democracy we've given them, so we can officially have ALL of them pissed at us. And we are not in need of pulling out in order to regroup. The only regrouping that may be needed would happen at a level above that of the field commander, and that doesn't requires boots to leave.




We know, it's obvious. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />



I have to give ya some credit though.... you'll try any tactic you can think of to convince people that pulling out is a good idea.... even ones that have less than zero merit.

I see this type of stuff thrown around a lot. But the avg Iraqui has no idea what democracy is, the avg Irqis life was greatly improved by Sadaam since the 70s. That is until we imposed sanctions after gulf 1 anyway. They dont want democracy anymore than you,, me,, or any one else wants to be converted to Islam. They want a good life, a nice family and not having to live with the fear of being blown up by stray american bombs. Just like every other human being in existence.

PPE,when we do eventually leave,they'll vote in people who hate us anyway. Just look at Jordan and Hamaas as an example. In the end,we won't accomplish anything accept give them the oppertunity to elect people who hate us.

That's already been proven in Jordan. You'll see soon enough. The whole thing will end up to be a waste of money,military lives and recources. And deep down inside,I think you already know this but just refuse to admit it. I mean,they're surrounded by our enemies and most of their citizens already consider us an occupying foirce. So who are they going to be electing again? People who love us? Not hardly Bud.
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I doubt it Pit... in my book we leave after about the same time frame it took us to completely leave Germany and Japan.

? Hamas was elected as an alternative to Yasir Arafats "well oiled machine" and as for Jordan,there is a king ruling . Isn't that where Saddams wife also lives? Can't wait till her bills are no longer paid <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That reminds me, I think Yassirs wife still lives in France and her only contact with the Paleo's is a few hand servants. She gets a few million dollars a month in death benefits don't forget. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, the thread is about jihadi's being pushed out of Somalia and the UN recognized govt retaking the capital. And just last week NPR radio "experts" were stating the best Ethiopian military could do was harrass the islamists demanding people obey them and their allah mandated laws ( where people were beheaded for watching wold cup soccer on TV...allah hates sports btw <img src="/images/graemlins/azzangel.gif" alt="" /> so don't give his earthly reps any grief )

Guess NPR will have to play dumb to yet another issue.
They can say the problem with the evil Ethiopian military is;

[color:"yellow"] 1) The Ethiopian military does NOT have any lawyers/JAGS.

2) Their ONLY "rules of engagement" they worry about is: "shoot everyone that is shooting at you, looks like he's about to shoot at you, or is anywhere near someone shooting at you, and don't stop shooting until every single one of them is dead.


3) Ethiopia does NOT have a Club Gitmo for captured enemy combatants (see fact #2).
[/color]

Entering a war with the intent to win ?? I like the idea.

Of course Ethiopia doesn't have an opposition party that believes in divide and concur on the home front order to win a few measily percentage points at the polls. Guess that means Ethiopia isn't a true democracy <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I may be wrong but historically Ethiopia has had a pretty good army. Ahhh war the old fashion way..sigh..you make it impossible for your enemy to wage war on you. What a novel idea.

Ethiopia has all ex Soviet/Russian military hardware in their army.Going against the camel jock janjaweed ( yeah, thats right, remember them ? the feared Ganjaweed <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ) is like Hitler going through Polish horse cavalry; The original thread news title; [color:"yellow"] [/color] [color:"orange"] Islamic Bloc Wants Ethiopian Forces Out of Somalia
[/color] is going to fall on deaf ears unless the islamic blocs are willing to purchase matching armorment from Putin of Russia.

Speaking of Islamic Blocs, here is a non biased story from al Jazeera,the mouthpiece of the 'freedom fighter movement'
pretty grim outcome for the islamists reading nothing but despair between the battle lines;

[color:"orange"] Ethiopian tanks move south
Ethiopian tanks have driven south from Mogadishu to attack fighters of the Islamic courts movement whose leader reportedly urged them to make a stand in Kismayu, a port city in Somalia.
Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys apparently made the call during Friday prayers at a mosque, a day after armed units of his Somalia Islamic Courts Council fled the capital in the face of government troops backed by Ethiopian armour.
Ali Mohamed Gedi, the Somali prime minister, entered Mogadishu on Friday after a 10-day land and air offensive by Ethiopia in support of his weak interim government.
Ethiopian fighter jets were seen over Kismayu and the nearby town of Jilib on Friday and Saturday, the military expert said.

...
...
"We are heading to Jilib in a convoy of 15 Ethiopian tanks," Ahmednur Yasin told Reuters by telephone. "There are more forces heading to Buale and I am sure the fighting will start soon."

A Somali government source said: "All the terrorists are in Jilib and Kismayu."
Militia leaders

One Islamic courts fighter, [color:"yellow"] who asked not to be named [/color] , said: "We will fight the Ethiopian invaders. The jihad will not stop."

[/color]
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C3B6C066-0AD2-4E66-BF20-AA0700714CE9.htm
Yeah well, the guy [color:"yellow"] who asked not to be named [/color] doesn't come across much like a confident Winston Churchill imo.
In fact, if I may be permitted to twist the words of Sir Winston Churchill;

The Ethiopians will fight them in the cities,across the land and onto the beaches,
they must never be allowed to surrender

we never did leave germany or japan. nor will we leave iraq completely. there will allways be american troops in balad airbase, mosul airbase and BIAP

And once the iraqis in the area of our bases become dependant on the military economy, they'll invite us to stay. I'd like to know what philipeanos in the area of Subic bay think about the military leaving.

that was my point <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Of course our government has been denying we were setting up "perminant bases there all along,so we probably are.
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But the situation is a little different here and this will become far more complicated than it ever has been in Europe. Europe wanted our protection,so did their people. All of the countries you've mentioned wanted us and embraced us as allies. The majority of Iraqi's do not.

Neither do the waring factions over there.
So the scenario is different. And they WILL be electing officials in the future that will dispise our government.

So,in Europe we had a block of the European nations that very much wanted our presence.

In Iraq? The majority of their people and the surrounding nations in no way desire our presence. Only "this existing government" does. So you are comparing apples to oranges. And I seriously doubt upcoming administrations within our own government will permit such a long term,permanant presence there as well. So good luck with that.
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Extremism in most all forms can't exactly be a good thing,, but when you talk about religion,, it's much worse.

All things in life in moderation,,, you will live longer and have nicer friends <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Riiiiight. Germany and Japan WANTED us there <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Let's try this: Germany and Japan weren't given any choice at all in the matter and accepted our presence as terms of their surrender.

That sound a little more historically accurrate to you? I thought so.

since we leveled two major cities with the atom bomb,Japan had no choice. Is that what you are suggesting we do to Iraq to get them to "accept our presence"? Cause that's about what it would take.
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And Germany" East or west? Yes,west Germany desired our presence. There were two sides of Germany you know.
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AFTER the war there were two sides..not before.

dude... put down the friggin pipe and step away from the keyboard.



better yet... do me a favor and go look up in a book what year WW2 ended, then go look up what year the Berlin Wall was put up to effectively create the two Germany's that you refer to.

And the only Germans that wanted us there were the ones that knew if it wasn't us it would be the Russians which would have been Hell on earth for them.


As for your first comment, you act like Germany had a choice in the matter... guess what, they didn't and <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> there were no nukes used. There was even an insurgency there after the war that we didn't tuck tail and run from <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Of course back then this country wasn't afraid of doing what it takes to succeed.

Excactly. That's why we stayed. To help protect West Germany and Europe in general.

And as I touched on above,the vast majority of the European block WANTED us there. That in no way compares to Iraq.

so we can only stay the course in exactly identical situations?


sorry, I missed that in the manual.

Back then,we had leaders that knew how to strategize and execute wars. They were done efficiantly and with proper troop strength. And,as I mentioned above,the vast majority of European nations WANTED us there. How does that in any way compare to Iraq?

And this "put down the pipe" stuff? Those kinds of comments are making you sound more like coach every time you use them.
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I understand the point you are TRYING to make but really it is a weak argument. Europe did not want us there but we as the victors decided to stay and with the guidance of Gen. Marshall we molded Europe to fit what we wanted them to become . Great man Mr. Marshall and he is often overlooked as a national hero.