DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Justice Department talks about banning transgender gun owners spark fury across political spectrum

The Justice Department is drawing swift condemnation from gun rights groups and LGBTQ advocates alike after floating that it was considering restricting transgender people from owning guns — a move that would all but certainly face immediate constitutional challenges if ever implemented.

The discussions come in the wake of the shooting at a Minneapolis Catholic school last month that federal officials have said was carried out by a transgender shooter, according to a person familiar with the matter. The person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations, cautioned that the talks were in the early stages and that no proposal has been finalized.

Even so, that high-level officials in the Trump administration were discussing such an idea sparked fury across the political spectrum. LGBTQ advocates called it misguided and dangerous as the vast majority of mass shootings in the U.S. are carried out by men and do not involve transgender people.

“Transgender people are less than 2% of the overall population, yet four times as likely to be victims of crime,” GLAAD said in an email. “Everyone deserves to be themselves, be safe, and be free from violence and discrimination. We all deserve leaders who prioritize keeping all of us safe and free.”

Since Trump returned to office, his administration has targeted transgender people in several ways, including removing them from military service, scrubbing some federal websites of mentions of them, trying to bar changing the sex marker on passports, seeking personal information on gender-affirming care patients from doctors and clinics, and seeking to bar transgender girls and women from certain sports competitions.

The Justice Department said in a statement in response to questions about the firearms talks that the agency is “actively evaluating options to prevent the pattern of violence we have seen from individuals with specific mental health challenges and substance abuse disorders.” But, the department said: “No specific criminal justice proposals have been advanced at this time.”

Some conservative figures have coalesced around the idea of restricting guns for people diagnosed with gender dysphoria — the unease a person may have because their assigned gender and gender identity don’t match — through a federal law that bars people from possessing firearms if they are “adjudicated as a mental defective.”

“It's incredibly worrying that that seems to be on the table for them,” Alejandra Caraballo, a transgender rights activist and Harvard Law School instructor. “This is not something that would be that incredibly difficult to do logistically or practically but it would be politically explosive in terms of the backlash of Second Amendment groups.”

Guns rights advocates — including politically powerful groups such as the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America — vowed to fight any proposal that imposes a blanket gun ban targeting a segment of the population.

“The Second Amendment isn’t up for debate,” the NRA said in a social media post on Friday. “NRA does not, and will not, support any policy proposals that implement sweeping guns bans that arbitrarily strip law-abiding citizens of their Second Amendment rights without due process.”

Another gun rights group, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, called the discussions “disturbing.”

“Prohibiting whole groups of people from owning and using firearms because a sick individual misused a gun to harm and kill children is as reprehensible as restricting the rights of all law-abiding citizens because some people have committed crimes,” said Alan Gottlieb, the group's chairman said in a statement. “That anyone in the Trump administration would consider such nonsense is alarming.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory...g-transgender-gun-owners-spark-125302532

It took this for Alan Gottlieb to figure out that things trump is doing are nonsense and alarming?

The fixation of maga on trans amazes me. How did this become such a rallying point for them? It absolutely helped trump win.

Because they seem fixated on less than 2% of the population. A good con man can always keep people distracted by trivial things. It prevents them from focusing on the big picture and invents negative labels, stereotypes and a rallying cry. They've been doing that ever since they called Native Americans the savages and referred slaves as being subhuman. It's amazing what people can get away with if they place such targets on people's backs.

Since 1982 96% of all mass shooters were male,, 3% female, 1% transgender

54% were white

Would it not make more sense to ban guns for white males?

https://www.britannica.com/story/infographic-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states-1982-present

Most people know out gay-people by now -- so it's hard to paint them all as terrible when they are your neighbors.

Being trans is just rare enough (and many trans people are still closeted enough in certain communities) - that you can paint them as some great evil without the counterpoint from actually interacting with them.

If you were going to ban a section of society... Yes, based on fact based statistical evidence.... BUT ..... MAGA .... MURICA !!!

Cover up and protect Pedophiles but hey, let's demonize Trans people

For decades, they have been 'AM radio-trained' to hate/mistrust "The Other"... and that's what's so insidious about movements like this.
"The Other" can be any person who isn't precisely like the 'target audience' of the message:

"These ppl are not like you. Life is not what you wanted/expected it to be. Therefore, these are the ppl to blame for the the way your life is now-""
...and there are tons of ppl out there who are just susceptible/uninformed enough to sign on to something as banal and cynical as this.

The Folks at the Top use these tactics, because they know they work.... without much effort.
The folks who always fall for this bs are the reason they keep using it.

It ain't broke- so why fix it?

___________

"Trans" is just the latest addition to the endless list of folks maga has been trained to vilify/hate/mistrust. And, the list will never stop growing.
Nothing new to see here.

When "trans" loses momentum, maga handlers will simply move on to some Other American to put in their crosshairs. Rinse/repeat.

It's not the maga footsoldiers you need to worry about.
It's the ones giving them their marching orders.


.02,
just another American Citizen.

Just another case of the FAR right being the FAR right *Sigh*

I agree that blanket bans shouldn't fly. My feeling is that trans people are mentally ill. Taking hormones and undergoing body mutilation isn't "normal"

I say "normal' fully understanding we have a lot to learn.

There is no proof that you are correct about it being a mental illness. But since it's YOUR FEELING, I'll leave it alone.

At least you have reached a point where it seems you understand the difference between feelings and facts. That's a step in the right direction. That's something everyone needs to realize.

I think you should, I know I do, feel blessed that I was born without the anguish and struggles of knowing I was born a different sex than what I should be. I can't imagine the life these people must be living and the judgement they receive from others as they try to rectify that situation. Growing up in today's society is hard enough. Young people have enough issues to deal with today. When we went to school each morning we didn't have the thought in our minds that we may never make it home because a mass shooter may come into our school and take our life or the life of our friends.

I will be the last one to put a label on them as being mentally ill or perverted as some have because they have trials and tribulations they have to suffer through that I have no way of understanding.

One thing I've learned in life is that normal is nothing more than a setting on your washing machine. Everyone has their own sense of what normal is.

Repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.
Browns just lost their home opener despite holding the opposing offense to 7 net yards in the second half.

Should Browns fans be banned from owning guns?

Pit, I can honestly say i reached that point over 40 years ago. My job required that.

I question the facts as some state in this matter.

Facts by who? and spare posting up a bunch of links I won't read.

I am happy some find relief. That still doesn't mitigate that something is screwed up with the plug wires.

Would you willingly allow some medical doctors to cut off your penis and testicles and pump you with hormones to enlarge your breasts, then carve out some sort of vaginal opening?

Some might see that as the way to go, and i don't have a problem if that is what they want,, but you can't convince that that is sane and normal.

lol yes…yes we should. If for nothing else, they shouldn’t be sold to people with this high a level of bad luck or misfortune.

or level of sanity

The common phrase is that "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Next year!

No I wouldn't. But that's because I'm a heterosexual male. As such I wouldn't have gay sex either. Both are foreign concepts to me. I can't relate to either one. But in both cases people that have these differences than myself aren't people I label or claim to be mentally ill because I don't relate to their sexuality.


I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I suppose the difference between us is my thoughts on the matter are just because I don't understand others who are "wired" differently than myself doesn't make them mentally ill.

Let me ask you, do you understand how one man can be sexually attracted to and have sex with another man? Is it something you can relate to? And if not, do you think that makes them mentally ill?

No I wouldn’t but I also would never vote for trump.
You cannot convince me that voting for trump is sane and normal.

So using that criteria, all trump supporters should be banned from owning guns

Why is this even a big deal? Some guy wants to cut off his Wanker... Isn't it his business? What the hell is this obsession from the Right about a Mans Penis. Geez.,.,,

It's just very odd that so many have a problem with Trans, Gay etc people.. Most of sitting on the Right.

I'd not engage in Homosexual intercourse. I don't want to cut anything off me... But geez, I don't care of others do. None of my business.

We have a President who is clearly trying to muddy the water over this entire Epstein thing. Why? he says he's not involved. If that's the case, why not open it up for the world to see.

We have a president is breaking the law all over the place but, let's not worry about that.. Unless it has something to do with a Trans person...Then we move on it like she's a Bit*ch!

Really, this is DUMB

I had the same thought process.

Wearing a pointy white hat and being part of the KKK - not normal. Section them, take away gun rights and voting rights.

Celebrating Hitler/Nazi's - not normal. Section them, take away gun rights and voting rights.

Extreme MAGA - Not normal, not in touch with reality. Section them, take away gun rights and voting rights.

Trying to stop or hating on consenting adult individuals doing what they want to do in the privacy of their homes. Section them, take away gun rights and voting rights.

Funny how that works isn't it.

Ever notice that some say they don't have a problem with someone that will cut off body parts but yet, they clearly demonstrate the exact opposite. They are so afraid of Trans people that they'd actually go to great lengths to justify voting for a man that has had many assualt charges against him (one such case just held up by appellate court), 34 Felonies counts, bankruptcies galore, (yeah, real good businessman), Court ordered repayment for his University, (25 million, Yikes), One failed business after another (Trump steaks, Trump Vodka, etc), demands AMERICA First, but makes all his swag in China or other countries with Cheap Labor, Makes 5 Billion on Crypto Coin deal, Scores a $400 million dollar Jet from a foreign nation, secures a $1 billion Retrofit for said Jet...

I could go on, but whats the use, I'm not changing anyones mind, but I hope to embarrass them at every turn..... They elected a CRIMINAL to run the country,

BUT BUT TRANS!

But But it's a Democrat Hoax, It's a Biden Hoax, It's an Obama Hoax, it's a Comey Hoax....

Don't look at the Dates, that will only confuse you.

If the right is scared enough of trans people, legally throwing them off building tops to their deaths is the way this ends… but first the christo-fascist will take their rights… then later their lives. Alpha’s need to take a stance against this crap or it will be a beta bible-thumping nazi world we pass to the next generation.

Brainwashed GOPers think the second applies only for them. LOL

“From my cold dead hands!”

I actually think many of them believe they are the only people who exercise their second amendment rights. Boy are they in for a big surprise if they put that one to the test.

I see what your saying, here's the problem. SCOTUS! I don't trust them at all. SCOTUS is in Trumps pocket and the pocket of so damn many GOP contributors.

Here's the thing. If they decide to ban weapons to any group of people based on race, sexual orientation or religion we'll know for a varifiable fact that the constitution no longer means anything to them. Not even their precious second amendment.

I think the battle ground will be that until Jan 1, 2022, gender incongruence (transgender) was considered a mental disorder until they (WHO) revised it in 2019.


I'm sure the Republicans will attempt to move gender incongruence back to a mental disorder and ban those people from having a gun as Transgender and gender diverse (TGD) people in the US experience significantly higher rates of mental health issues, including depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation, compared to cisgender individuals.


reference:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6830528/
We performed a cross-sectional analysis of the prevalence of psychiatric diagnoses among transgender patients in clinical care using an all-payer electronic health record database. Of 10,270 transgender patients identified, 58% (n=5940) had at least one psychiatric diagnosis compared with 13.6% (n=7,311,780) in the control patient population (p<0.0005). Transgender patients had a statistically significant increase in prevalence for all psychiatric diagnoses queried, with major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder being the most common diagnoses (31% and 12%, respectively). Utilizing an all-payer database, although not without limitations, enables assessment of mental health and substance use diagnoses in this otherwise small population.

Approximately 58% of transgender patients had at least one DSM-5 diagnosis


Here is more information about DSM-5
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/24291-diagnostic-and-statistical-manual-dsm-5

They are nopt banning them from a sexual orientation. These people have a mental disorder and live in a fantasy world and just because the corrupt WHO says differently our country should not follow suit with them.

That seems to be your general line of thought about anyone who disagrees with you. Even when they show you they're killing and starving innocent women and children.

So you're saying the trump administration is going to ignore the science and just do what they want to regardless? That no matter the fact that it's not a mental illness just because people "who think like you because they feel a certain kind of way" that gives you the right to take their guns?

And just think, for decades now you've screamed that it was going to be Democrats that were going to take people's guns. Oh the irony. The cult of trump has turned you into someone even you wouldn't have recognized ten years ago.

I'm certainly happy your precious NRA is going to be fighting against you on this one. What you're proposing is clearly condoning taking away people's second amendment rights due to their sexual orientation.

What's next? The gay and lesbian community? I mean do you think gay sex is normal?

Science says xx and xy. That has not changed. Mental illness has changed.

No, it is not normal, it is nothing but sexual perversion.

So then by your logic we should ban guns from people that are gay and lesbian too? I mean that's not your version of what "normal" is.

You may wish to try and educate yourself rather than spew the company line.......

Beyond Just XX or XY: The Complexities of Biological Sex

https://www.visiblebody.com/blog/beyond-just-xx-or-xy-the-complexities-of-biological-sex

I do not need someone's theory over truth. Truth is xx xy and God created them Male and Female. Two points of truth.

Are you arguing via science or the Bible? You look like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing when you flip back and forth on a whim.

Science says all people have either xx or xy chromosomes. Which means male or female. The Bible also states God made them Male and Female. Both are truths. Science when applied logically will always prove the Bible correct. God created everything so all science in the absolute proves the Bible. Man created theories are usually tainted with their own personal bias.

You refuse to read the science. You think it's all cut and dry but it's not. That's what the world always looks like to those who refuse to learn anything new. So you don't see yourself believing yours as the only one true religion and everyone else on the face of the earth as being wrong as bias? Dear Lord.

God changes not. And I believe the Bible as being the only true source of what is good and right. Our founding Fathers used the Bible to found our country's constitution. There is only one God and one truth and that is the Bible. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The founding fathers used the Magna Carta with which to found the constitution on. They were so against infusing religion upon the masses they made sure to include that no law should be passed based on any religion. That includes yours. That's why people like yourself wishing to inflict your religious beliefs into law have no understanding of the constitution.

This nation was neither founded on nor endorses your religion. So you think killing the first born of every Egyptian family is "good and right"? Or that starting civilization based on incense not just once, but twice (Adam and Eve, Noah's family is good and right? I thought you believed incense is a sin?

Or maybe, just maybe, God didn't include everything but what he wanted you to know in the Bible?

You do know there are people with both male and female genitalia. That is a truth. If the genitalia can get mixed up maybe the brain has xx or xy characteristics that get mixed up that is different from there genitalia, also truth.