DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What If?

There are valid points on both sides on putting Dillon in right away. I for one would love to see what we have in him because he has shown some promise. However, I don’t feel this week is a good time. Green Bay may have the best D in football and it would probably be a beat down for him. I don’t want to see him take a beating. The next few weeks are a little better but not much. We should be prudent with him.

As lamp pointed out, every player in his first NFL season is a rookie. It is in fact their rookie season. That's the very definition of a rookie. Very few rookie QB's, even first rounders are ready to start in the NFL that by game three and most not even buy game six. Many of them have been ruined by taking your advice. Waiting until we get to the softer part of the schedule for him to start will give him the best odds of success rather than throwing him into the fire by endangering his success against some of the top teams in the NFL to start off with.

I understand we live in a world where people expect instant gratification but often times we find that ends up being short sighted and counterproductive.

If Gabriel gives us a better chance to win then he should start...I don't GAS that he's a rookie. And NO I am not opining that he gives us a better chance to win. Unfortunately I don't think AB/KS know who does either.

The last rookie QB who played here did quite well.

I think not pointing out the difference between Baker and Gabriele is shortsighted. Baker was the #1 overall pick in the draft. Gabriel was a third round selection. That's a huge difference.

Here is where I am with the quandary..

I fully believe Flacco gives us the best chance to win.. unfortunately, in the first two games, he hasn't done enough to ensure we win. The first game wasn't totally his fault, but the second, he really didn't do much to help.

If I'm wrong, and there is a really good chance I am, and Gabriel (or Sanders for that matter) give us a better chance, then they need to be in there. I understand the theory that sitting improves the odds. However, there are more than enough examples of rookies stepping in and succeeding, simply because they are good enough and belong in this league. Why waste another 3-4 games just because of the opponent they are facing? He sure looked like he belonged last week.. even if it was garbage time.

I fully agree with starting Flacco this week against the Packers, but I would have a very short leash on him and if I made the switch this week again, I would keep it that way moving forward. At least, not go back to Flacco, maybe if Gabriel didn't immediately step up, give Sanders a chance. If neither do for the rest of the season, as it seems to get easier, then we know to invest in the off-season. I don't want to waste another season, not knowing if we have a gem already on the roster. It might not be fair to either Gabriel or Sanders, but in most cases, they would never have had this opportunity to begin with. They don't have to ball out, they need to show consistency and have an aptitude to read a defense and not cost the team with bad mistakes. On the other hand, Gabriel may take the opportunity and not look back. If that happened, then they could use the draft picks to build the team the right way. It doesn't mean I would still look to improve the position in the off-season, but it might help with a high draft pick decision down the line.

...So you were a fan of DTR's work?

Could you give me "many examples" of third round QB draft picks coming in early in their rookie seasons and being successful QB's?

I understand that there are very rare examples of that but they are VERY few and far between.

That's why context matters so much when posting what you did. QB's drafted very early in the draft are chosen that early because teams consider them more "NFL ready". Even then some teams sit them for a while. When you lump them all into a group by calling them "rookie QB's" it indicates every rookie QB fits under the same umbrella and that's far from being accurate. There are reasons why some are drafted later than others and that's a huge factor in the equation.

And actually I haven't see anyone suggest he shouldn't start as a rookie. Many are simply suggesting that as a third round rookie you give him a little more time first and inject him at a point in the season where he won't be facing some of the hardest teams in order to give him a chance to get acclimated first.

I suppose if you believe that starting a third round rookie against top tier competition will change the projection it terms of the Browns making the playoffs I could see your reasoning. But with all of the other needs we have on O I don't see that as being realistic. And if you don't think starting Gabriele right way will make the difference in going to the playoffs I consider the risk of ruining him being overwhelmed straight of the gate isn't worth the reward of possibly winning a few meaningless games.

Even staring him in game six or seven gives you ten or eleven games to assess his talents and progress.

With the exception of 2020 and 2023 every season seems like a broken record. What a shame.....

How many 3rd round QB selections in the NFL Draft have started games during their rookie season since 1986?

10 - 3rd‑Round Drafted QBs Who Started Games as Rookies

Bubby Brister PIT - Drafted in 1986, 3rd round - He started two games in his rookie season with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Malik Willis TEN - Drafted in 2022, 3rd round - He was named a starter in Week 8 of his rookie season.

Chris Chandler IND - Drafted in 1988, 3rd round - He was named starter in Week 3 of his rookie season and had a 9-5 record.

Trent Edwards BUF- Drafted in 2007, 3rd round - He was named the starter in Week 4 and had a 5-5 record as a rookie starter.

Mike Glennon TAM - Drafted in 2013, 3rd round - He was named the starter in Week 4 and had a 4-9 record as a rookie starter.

Russell Wilson SEA - Drafted in 2012, 3rd round - He was named the starter in Week 1 had a 11-5 record during the regular season and 1-1 in the playoffs in his rookie season.

Charlie Frye CLE - Drafted in 2005, 3rd round - He was named the starter for Week 13 and had a 2-3 record during his rookie season.

Eric Zeier CLE - Drafted in 1995, 3rd round - He was named the starter in Week 9 and had a 1-3 record during his rookie season.

Matt Schaub ATL - Drafted in 2004, 3rd round — He started 1 game as a rookie in Week 16 and had a 0-1 during his rookie season.

Colt McCoy CLE - Drafted in 2010, 3rd round - He was named the started in Week 6 and had a 2-6 record as a rookie starter.

At least he will be in Browns company...

The problem is the rest of the team isn't ready to go.

One of two things has to happen for Gabe to enter.

We have maybe 6 losses or Joe gets hurt and has to leave a game. If gabe looks good, he may never leave. If he doesn't, Joe will be back later that game or the next week.

That way it will be very easy to go back to Joe without making it look like we benched Gabe.

I think anyone that believes decisions will be made in order to save the Browns playoff chances are delusional. At 0-2, this team isn’t making the playoffs. This team drafted two mid-round QBs. There is speculation that they will be evaluated as potential future starters.

We have two first round picks in 2026.

These are the facts.

At the end of the day, the draft is the draft, now they are pros and need to be treated and evaluated as pros. As for the “why” a player gets drafted where they do, there are so many factors that determine it. You say early picks are there because they are considered more “ready”, I call BS. Many first round picks are a reach and fail because they are over drafted based on a perceived high ceiling. In the case of Gabriel, it is physical shortcomings. Gabriel had more experience than any other rookie QB in this draft class and many other draft classes. He is more “ready” than the typical draft pick.

This team doesn’t have a rookie to evaluate, they have TWO rookies to evaluate. Out of the two, Gabriel is expected to be the most ready AND better suited QB based on draft position AND all information coming out of Berea, including current depth status on the roster. So, it makes sense that he would be the first up in evaluation.

If they don’t think he is ready to play, why bring him in at all last week? Not only did they replace a healthy Flacco, he showed the game isn’t too big for him.

If the Browns are considering either or both rookies as potential future starters, they need to be evaluated. Not for miraculously turning this into a playoff caliber offense, but for the intangibles needed to lead them through development. If the intangibles aren’t there, they need to evaluate the 2026 class to determine who is worth what draft stock to get a potential starter. It’s imperative we have that information going into the offseason.The more games you can get the better the data.

Lastly, those saying throwing him in too early could “ruin” him… if he doesn’t get a fair chance at evaluating his skills, they may have to draft a high pick anyway and he may never get another chance. He has said he’s ready, the team traded away a veteran backup and gave him the job, so they think he is ready if Flacco goes down to injury. If Flacco can’t get the job done, then it’s time to begin the evaluation.

What you have pointed out it that many of them weren't starters until a little later. That's all I've seen anyone advocate.

I didn't say that they all panned out because teams thought they were more NFL ready. I said that's the reasoning as to why they're drafted so early. And that's not meant to be a blanket statement. Sometimes it's because it appears their ceilings are so high.

And I know you and some others wish to throw Sanders into the mix. And maybe he'll get a shot if all else fails. As far as evaluating him goes the situation dictates that's been done to some degree already. He is third string and wasn't even activated on game days.

Don't get me wrong, he has raw talent. He has some upside. But it's obvious the Browns don't consider him nearly ready for prime time. And let me ask you a legitimate question. Do you really believe the Browns drafted a QB in the 5th round is a QB they think has a legitimate chance to be a starter in his first season? Or more of a project for the future? And before you answer that question, lest you forget, they drafted DTR in round 5 too.

Once again, if you start him in week 6 he still has 11 games to "prove himself". There is no legitimate argument to be made that isn't enough time to do so.


You are trying to compare two totally different things here. Nobody said he "isn't ready to play". Taking on the starting QB position runs much deeper than that. I said it would be wise to wait a little longer to name him the starter. In actuality bringing him in for a drive here and there and slowly incorporating him into playing at the highest level in football is a wise approach as part of the process to prepare him to be the starter.

We all have opinions, you have yours- your logic- Baker and Dillon both rookies, yet big difference between 1/3 round....WHAT? Yes, big difference- Dillon has/had way more college starts and played in tougher league- Dillon has some mop up time, Baker started out of gate. Just my opinion, we can roll Dillon out, he isn't a target like Joe is.....plus, we get to evaluate him..... start Dillon...Go Browns!!!

Yes, when you draft players your evaluation of first round picks is much different than third round picks. That exactly the way teams evaluate a players draft value. Do you know how an NFL draft board works? That's not really an opinion.

It seems you are trying to indicate that the NFL sees the first pick in the draft in the same light as a third round pick. That is also not true. That too is not an opinion.

Just a thought about drafting since it’s being discussed. If we end up losing like last season, and I hope we don’t, we could be drafting in the top 3 again. In that case we may not even have to use our 2nd first round pick for a QB depending on who we’re targeting. I don’t want to see us lose like that but it’s a thought if it happens.

I've considered that myself. We have enough holes in the O that while much like you I would hate to see the Browns lose like that, such a situation would be at least be somewhat of a consolation prize if this FO can capitalize on it.

Exactly. You may be able to get your franchise QB and your starting LT. We can always hope right?

When all else fails there's always hope.

J/C

I think people miss the chemistry side of things. Joe's been the one working with the ones. There's not a ton of practice time during the season. Do I maybe start giving Dillon some of the reps with the ones now? Give him a package? Maybe. I increase his reps up to all of them during the bye and start him after that. Throwing him in now without a consistent, healthy body of reps with the ones would have me expecting bad results.

Starting off by giving him packages is a great idea, but usually that's only done with guys that have a niche skillset (ex. Brissett and the QB sneak, the one dude in New Orleans that does all the things). Not sure what Gabriel does that adds another wrinkle to the offense with him in there.

I find that you using Green Bay as your example here as borderline amazing.

Aaron Rodgers sat behind Brett Favre for three seasons before he was the starter.

Jordan Love sat behind Aaron Rodgers for three seasons before he was the starter.

But you are right. Green Bay has the formula. It seems that using them as your example and then recommending using the opposite approach is somewhat odd however. I realize that we don't have a Brett Fave or Aaron Rodgers for Gabriele to sit behind but throwing him head first into the fire so soon is the opposite approach to the Green Bay method.

We're not making the playoffs this year. As has been stated already, there are very limited snaps during weekly practices during the regular season and your starter gets the vast majority of them.

Slowly working Gabriele into the line up with packages makes sense. Getting him more acclimated before he starts makes sense. Which is exactly what it appears they are doing already.

You admitted your frustration before saying you think he should start now and I understand your frustration. But decisions based on frustration rather than letting cooler heads prevail and doing the smart thing rarely work out well.

Let me ask you one question first. Do you really think that the Browns see a 5th round draft pick at QB someone they consider far along in the process to start at QB in the NFL in his first season or a longer term project? Refer back to DTR who was also evaluated as and chosen as a 5th round pick.

And one more question. Let's say for example Gabriel doesn't start until week 6. Are you saying that 11 games that isn't ample time to evaluate Gabriele?

You're a very level headed guy. Please don't allow your frustrations and emotions to overrule that.

I don't hold out much hope this year. We have the drafts biggest reach in Gabriel and the drafts biggest drop in Sanders. Does not sound like a recipe for success. Maybe hey can find a long term back up to provide some stability out of these two though. I think that might be realistic.

Unfortunately, it looks like we now have big holes in our Oline. Hopefully the draft picks over the past few years continue to develop and can contribute as starters, but we still need to find a starter-level tackle.

I don't want you to think for a second I don't understand your frustration as I share that same feeling. I'm just hoping they give the kid just a little more time rather than feeding him to the wolves. My reasoning is that if he does in fact succeed, that would be the best approach to make it happen. We are both after the same results we just see different approaches as the best option.

If I had my way I wouldn’t want Dillon to start for a few more weeks until we get the tough part of the schedule over. Just put him in for mop up duty for now. 10-11 games should be a good enough body of work to see what we have with him.

It's like I have said, sure you can throw a kid in the river and hope he can swim. Or you could make sure and give him a few swimming lessons first. Sure, you may say that he already knows how to swim. But that was in a swimming pool. Swimming in the NFL is totally different. It's more like doing a life saving mission during a sea squall.

I think Joe is doing the important job of eating these first few games. If we threw a rookie in front of the Ravens/GB/Detroit/Patriots for their first NFL game, people would be losing it on here just the same.