DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Looking Back: Browns 9 Steelers 23 Postgame Thoughts

- I miss the Hue Jackson and Deshone Kizer led offense. This offense is beyond pathetic and the Steelers were penalized numerous times on defense in an effort to help the Browns move the ball.

- The inability to score 20 points continues.

- Judkins was a complete non-factor from the get go.

- Jeudy only had a couple drops and a drive killing 15 yard penalty. This may be an improvement for him.

- The Browns are not even a slight threat to throw the ball deep.

- Myles Garrett has checked out earlier than normal. That's two games in a row. He did a little jogging around out there today.

- New guy got torched for a TD by Metcalf.

- Fannin Jr fought hard for extra yardage. Bad drop.

- Gabriel is short pass after short pass. Could have thrown 4 or 5 INTs today if the Steelers could catch the ball.

- Jalem Ramsey had two sacks today. He had only 3 his entire career before this game.

- Good game Szmyt.

11 more games to go!

I know our OL and WRs are terrible and we have a rookie QB, but Stefanski still has to answer for never posing an offensive threat against anyone. He is not a good play caller, and whatever his “system” is, it doesn’t work. We need a tough-guy head coach. Vrabel would’ve been nice.
Fannin was great, the drop notwithstanding. Jeudy is a No.3. Conklin doesn’t even want to play. This is a historically bad offense.

Maybe if Ski threw more today? Dillon got little help. Tackles stunk. Hand this offense to somebody else. Judy was better today for a bit. Putrid offense. Abandoned the run early today Did we rush a dozen times? Still projectile vomiting.

We can do better if we change: A)Stadiums B) Play selection C)Helmets D)Other. Pick a winner or suggest your own.

Team is undisciplined. First drive Jerry Juedy gets 15-yard penalty for throwing punch. He was baited into it. Huge call. Offense cannot overcome penalties let only stupidity.

Then the running into the kicker was really stupid. The defense was off the field, and this team cannot overcome stupidity.

Dillon Gabriel is the dink and dunk king. Stefanski loves him for not turning the ball over. Gabriel will not lose a game but will not win one either.

Why would Stefanski run any plays without giving tackles help. Did he not learn what would happen in Baker's last game here, yet he still continues same as always.

Receivers dropping balls again goes back to discipline.

this is the worst offense I've ever seen us have ... including the 99, 00, 01, 10, 17, etc

We have the worst OTs in NFL history, no playmakers, a midget/noodle arm QB, and no run game unless Judkins is a miracle worker

It's really really bad

I'm assuming you mean Campbell, and yes he did give up that TD. Otherwise, I thought he did provide tight Man-To-Man coverage. He's a big improvement over Newsome....

Defensively: Our newly acquired CB in Campbell was put in a tough situation in having to cover Metcalf on such short notice, he had some nice plays but gave up the big catch but overall he looked like an improvement on Newsome. Myles looked like he was just going through the motions and the defense as a whole got very little pressure on Rodgers.

Offensively: It's tough to gauge Gabriel when your OTs can't block anybody and your best WR is Jerry Jeudy who drops half the passes thrown to him, this is the worst group of WRs we've had since Robiskie and Massaquoi back in 2009. Judkins just didn't have the room to run today and if I'm a future Browns' opponent I'm just going to stack the box and dare the Browns to throw because your either going to get pressure on Gabriel or whoever the QB is or if the Browns do get a pass off it's likely the Receiver is going to drop it or not even get open.

Dawgs4Life
Legend

we are so bad

Whose we ?

Are you talking about your posting ?

We as in who ?

Or on you on the Browns team ?

The Browns are bad

We as in not me are bad

You as a post post counter

Is very bad

Qb: rookie in 2nd career game
Passes 52

Best player Rb Judkins
Total runs: 17
(12 for Judkins)

I believe it was sarcasm from Bard.

I like Dawgs4Life posting a lot on the game day threads. His voice is like my voice. It has nothing to do with getting a high post count, we are just chatting on the that thread, it's fun to me.

P.S. I agree with what you said about the person who posts about EOTAB every week, it's uncalled for/mean. Let Eo RIP.

I know
I was emphasizing his point

You find bashing the team on every play fun ?

Oops! My bad, Jester.

Does even 1 poster believe that this head coach/GM are the right combo to rebuild this team? Anyone?

He doesn't bash the team on every play, just 99.999999%. LOL!!! JK. We can't stop losing, what do you expect? 'You reap what you sow.'

Stuff like this happens every season, we get really bad and some of the fans turn on each other. There isn't much else we can do but complain/make suggestions/lament.

It bums me out we suck year after year. But I'm getting old and I will die a Browns fan.

Gabriel dinks and dunks because the WRs aren’t getting separation downfield, plus the OL is abysmal. I thought that, for a rookie, he showed poise. A few errant throws, yes, but some very nice ones.

I don’t think his height is a big drawback, he had a ball batted down but that was because Watt ran over two blockers and got his arms up.

There were times we were leaving backup OTs having to fend off great pass rushers, without help. Stefanski did not have a good game.

Jeudy with a drop, Fannin with a huge drop in the fourth, NJoku with a couple, and we couldn’t run it worth a damn. They knew shutting down Judkins was the best way to win.

I really like Watt as an announcer, he explains things well.

Rodgers got the ball out fast all game, negating our pass rush. Again, astute game-planning. Run D got tired toward the end, I thought.

Our new CB plays tough. I like him, he got bested for a TD but he looked good.

I thought there were a few open receivers he could have went to

Not sure if he couldn't see them

Or if it was the collapsing awful O- Line allowing all the sacks

I understand, most of us on this board are on the older side and have less patience.

I'll be 65 in February

I don't post useless posts on game day to post count

And mostly all the negative ones who most do

Not easy to come to the board to read the 4 or 5 posters bashing

He has not had a good one in a long time. It's getting obvious he has no answers either.

*

Every week the national announcers always question why our inept coaches do not help out our inept tackles. Everyone in the world can see it but are inept coaches

Watching Baker play as the potential MVP of the entire League is so Browns

Gabriel = Colt McCoy or Cody Kessler?

I see more positives than you, with respect to DG. Not an insult directed towards you.

No help for pitiful tackles. Robinson was playing decent, now he's hurt. Juedy has become a liability, it not that he just drops them, it's that he drops the important ones. Njoku drops two important passes.

The defense played alright, but Myles, the generational player did nothing. But a little in his defense, Rogers gets rid of it quick.

I have not turned on Stephanski, but after today, I'm done with him. First and goal at the four, to put you back in the game, and he throws on three straight plays with Judkins on the bench.

Gabriel did what he could. Nobody open down field, but he took what he could get. His stats would look a lot better if there weren't five crucial drops. He may never be great, but he is a smart player. No turnovers was big against that defense. He took a lotta hits, but played calm and in control.

My only major gripe was the pass to Lavardian, where the defense had his ankles and he was jumping to break free, and they blew the whistle. Nobody had control of him he was still moving on his own. No whistle and that was a TD. That was a piss poor call.

Myles is riding his money bags now. He was a non Factor. I am souring on his attitude quickly. DPOY's show up in games like these. Pittsburgh won this game, because they could run for 8 yards at will. Besides the rookie, we need a LB who can stop the run. Their backs would be hit in the backfield and get 8 yards. They would get hit at the line and still get five.

This offensive game plan is stale and predictable. Judkins gets stopped a couple time, and the run was abandoned. I think a coaching change is needed. It has not improved, and is lifeless. That is on Kevin.

Oh yeah, time to start drafting lineman high in the draft. These guys are old and done

1st two games as a rookie vs two really good defenses, with crappy Wr's and crappy o-line and crappy play caller
Hard to get much of a read.
Next weekend we play the dolphins
We will learn a lot

Jeudy has alligator arms. Lava has more jam than JJ.

Just from my eye, Gabriel is a career backup ... Chase Daniel type. Smart, accurate, lacking high end talent or athleticism. He's gaining good experience for himself, but he's not our answer

I’m not one to call for coaching changes after bad games with so many extenuating circumstances but I can honestly say they need more out of Ski and if they continue to show so little imagination and vision, they may need to start thinking about a change. They look uninspired, unfocused and just lost. Everyone looks so disconnected.

We had, by all accounts, a great draft with lots of immediate contributors but beyond our OL and WR room being straight trash right now, we’re not playing well anywhere else either. We should at least be scrappy and unpredictable. We looked like a bumbling doormat out there today.

And our D has seriously regressed in the last few weeks. We’re not winning at the line of scrimmage and that should sound some serious alarms. Harris was our line’s one bright spot

Our defense struggles with two things: QBs who get it out quickly and when teams run misdirection stuff (like the very first play of the game today that went for 50 yards). Teams have adjusted to our defense - especially with how to attack us through the air.

The defense is being asked to carry an unreasonably heavy load and the players (on defense) know the offense and ST are absolute garbage. It's starting to reflect in their play that they are in a hopeless situation.

It's going to be like this all season guys. You might as well get used to it. It's not the coaches fault either. What is a coach supposed to do when the GM lets the offensive line go this neglected? You can't game plan for zero pass protection. DG was getting hit almost as fast as the ball was snapped. It's not that the Steelers have some great defensive line either. It's just that our O-line is playing 3rd stringers and guys off the street at this point.

At this point they should just run the ball 80 percent and occasionally pass it and call it a day. It doesn't matter which QB you put back there with pass blocking this bad there is nothing a QB can do. Just stop hating on the QBs and the coaches because there is ZERO they can do about this mess.

It should be pretty obvious that they gave up on this season once they traded away one of our starting corners in Newsome to get some crappy 5th round pick who will never even make the team most likely. I would honestly just fire the GM at this point. It's the GM's fault that there is no offensive line and that we are trading away a former first round pick for a 5th round pick. Kevin needs a GM that will actually field a team with a chance to score some points.

I am not sure if this has been said yet or not ...... but Myles Garret has NO ROOM to talk after this game when he contributed a massive 2 assists. 2 assists. Yea. That's defensive player of the year caliber there.

I understand that he's frustrated, but he decided to sign an extension that makes him all but untradable, so I don't want to hear it. Especially after only 1/3 of the season.

Well at least he is consistant. . . he left a back up OT 1 on 1 with the best pure pass rusher in the game for multiple plays ... again. Pass happy. Again. Not only pass happy but came out in a spread offense multiple times right at the start of the game ... with the OL that we have. Always the smartest guy in the room.

The gameplan was bad right from the first drive. OL looked worse than ever. Jeudy bad at clutch times. Gabriel not given any chance - he did save at least one possibly two sacks with his quick release.

Giving up 9 points in the first half was decent effort by the D. But they are being asked to do a lot knowing the O can't score points.

Really hard to watch the game we were so inept - hoping we play better against another struggling team next week at home vs MIA.

The OT and WR positions might be the worst in the NFL (actually, they ARE the worst). Our interior OL is hanging by a thread age-wise, Njoku is a shell of his younger self, the rookies have been a nice sign, but still aren't there yet. And the QB is not good (he may be a good backup some day).

It's truly the worst offense I think we've ever had. The draft and FA can't come soon enough

If you go back and look at it, I believe he got some fingers on the ball, he was saying that on the field.

I predicted we would win 5-6 games this season. Now I honestly don't think we can win that many. Another sad season and honestly there's no end in sight. I don't think firing anyone at this point will do any good because the season is lost. I would wait until it's over and assess everything then.

Thanks for the numbers. Tour opinion of the mix? Not what I want for a rookie QB. Shelve this offense. Painful to watch. KS is inept[.

They just played the toughest part of their schedule. Even before the season started people said they didn't know if there was a win to be had during this stretch. Suddenly it seems everyone has forgotten about that. I certainly agree that things look bleak at this point but aren't these losses about what everyone expected before the season started?

I'm not trying to fool myself into thinking the Browns are good. They're certainly not. But the only hope we had this would be a good season was if an aging Flacco somehow progressed from last season. At his age you don't usually get better as you get older. Anyone that understands the draft process is fully aware the risk verses reward factor in drafting a QB in round 3. So all of this gnashing of nails about how they drafted GB to be a savior is just a load of BS.

As soon as they traded down the plan was obvious they were loading up for this coming draft to address the QB position.

Sadly what is happening now is at least somewhere close to what we should have expected. It's not pretty and it's not fun.

I don't want you to think this is directed strictly to you. It's a reflection of the overall theme I'm seeing here. I sat and read people that seemed at least somewhat rational before the season began. The team told us they wanted to see what the rookie QB's had this season. Many posters said they shouldn't start Gabriele until week 6. That starting him earlier against these tough teams with such good D's with this OL could destroy the kid. It's like they knew exactly what was coming.

Now that what they saw coming and they were right about seems to be happening they act like it's some huge shock and they are appalled by it.

The people who have been doom and gloomers for what seems like forever now have gathered more recruits as a result.

On the one hand you are spot on - and it's always easier to talk about the team being bad pre-season than watching a losing season and going through a really tough part of the schedule. However - I'd argue that while this team was expected to struggle due to a talent deficit or a rebuild, the on-field product reveals profound failures that go beyond mere losing. We are witnessing systemic, organizational failure and a lack of leadership by the HC that is beyond the level of struggle that was anticipated by even the most pssimistic Browns fan. A call for the change in leadership is not a reaction to the record, but a reaction to just how much worse than expected the team, especially the offense which is allegedly KS strength, has performed. Discipline, pre-snap penalties, execution, adpation to incorporating a rookie QB... take your pick. It's a long list.

Some will want to keep the FO intact. I know I wanted to keep HUE when he went 0-16 ... stability, time, better talent. Various reasons to hold that opinion. Some will have had enough for at least an equal number of valid reasons ... I'm definitely in that camp.

Well said Pit

I believe the worse part of it, is watching the Browns shoot themselves in the foot.

It's not like teams are dominating the Browns.

I understand what you're saying Pit. I was one of the ones that posted that we'll probably be 1-5 after the first 6 games. I also said that to friends of mine. We honestly should be 3-3 right now as we literally threw away the Bengals and Vikings games. However, even with the tough part of our schedule over I don't see us winning much simply because of the way we've looked. The only team left on the schedule we should beat is the Jets. Most of the other games we will probably be underdogs. Wait and see what happens.

I'm just not sure what "leadership" you are referring to? Human beings are human beings. Judy at one point was a very sure handed WR. Now he is dropping the ball. The same goes for Njoku. It's not as if you can teach them or will them to catch the ball. You can't make an aging interior OL regain their youth. You can't make inferior OT's into good ones. Some things are simply not humanly possible.

I'm not sure how Stefanksi is supposed to take a crappy OL and make them better with "leadership". I'm not sure how he is supposed to take a very weak WR group better with "leadership". The Steelers had more penalties than the Browns yesterday and I'm pretty sure you don't question their leadership. I mean I get your assertion. It's like Rocky. A poor, under talented boxer finds some hidden inner strength to compete against the best boxer in the world while at the same time being severely outmatched. It's a very nice web to weave. But life isn't a movie.

I've said this before. I'm not sure how you can expect a man to be a five star chef when you provide him with substandard ingredients.

I'm not really trying to argue that we don't need new leadership. I know that may be the perception but it's not my intent. What I do know is Stefanski has shown in the past that he can do a lot with a little. It does not however seem to be that he can do that on a consistent basis. But then who can?

But this is the NFL. And that stands for "Not For Long" if you can't build a winner and if you're not winning games. There have been instances with past HC's and FO's when I don't feel the owner has given them enough time to produce a winner. That certainly isn't the case here.

I think my sticking points on this are two fold.

1. I do not think this FO has given Stefanski the talent on O to begin with. We have an entire analytics department and scouting department that combined make millions with which to do that job and a GM whose job it is to do that.

2. I reject this entire "All decisions are made by consensus." For that to happen every member of a group of people would have to agree on all decisions. That's not how anything works. People disagree on what shade of blue the sky is on any given day. It just doesn't make sense to me that you pay an entire analytics department, an entire scouting department only to have the HC whose number one priority is to coach the team having equal input into those decisions.

He has no idea what players on the market would fit into the salary cap numbers. He doesn't create or analyze every spread sheet. He doesn't have time to review hundreds and hundreds of hours of film accumulated on every and all players in the draft. If he could do all of that there would be no need for an analytics and scouting department.

So it's not like I don't get it. I do. Everyone bases their opinions on what they do or don't believe to be true.

But the bottom line is this team isn't winning this year and didn't win last year. Looking at this roster and their play it shouldn't look this way after five full seasons. I believe the main problem is the make-up of the roster itself and not so much the man responsible for trying to turn water into wine in this situation.

But this entire FO and HC are tied at the hip. They came in together and there is a high probability they will go out together. It's an entire body of work accumulated by all of them. So as one goes they all go.

While I may have a different view than some in regards to where most of the fault lies, looking at it big picture I could understand the owner firing the lot of them and starting over. I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it.

At this point I don't lose any sleep over anything that goes on with the Browns. I'm past all that now. And even Stefanski's "leadership" can't fix that.

It's not as if I think I'm right and others are wrong. I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. But if as some believe that everything is done in some spirit of Kumbaya and total agreement by consensus, it may very well have been agreed on that they would pass on a QB in the 2025 draft, focus on a two year window to address the teams weaknesses and understood all of this is what they expected this season. Which would mean nobody gets fired this year. I don't have any better guess than anyone else does in that regard.

I surely don't think Haslam expected this team to win this season and if he's as meddling of an owner as many indicate he is if he was pushing for a winner now he would have forced their hand into drafting a QB early.

Who knows?

Browns Offense Week 6 PFF Grades

Here’s how the offense graded according to Pro Football Focus:

(PFF grades every player on every play and uses a scale of 0-100, with higher grades indicating better play. PFF has explained its grades this way: 100-90 elite; 89-85 Pro Bowler; 84-70 starter; 69-60 backup; 59-0 replaceable. In other words, it’s similar to how we would match up percentages with traditional letter grades in school.)

QUARTERBACK

Dillon Gabriel: 51.1 (82)

RUNNING BACKS

Dylan Sampson: 68.0 (15)

Adin Huntington: 60.0 (1)

Jerome Ford: 56.8 (33)

Quinshon Judkins: 54.7 (33)

WIDE RECEIVER

Jerry Jeudy: 60.4 (73)

Malachi Corley: 59.1 (2)

Jamari Thrash: 59.0 (37)

Gage Larvadain: 56.3 (13)

Isaiah Bond: 50.9 (71)

TIGHT END

Harold Fannin Jr.: 67.2 (66)

Blake Whiteheart: 48.2 (22)

David Njoku: 29.3 (36)

OFFENSIVE LINE

Joel Bitonio: 64.7 (82)

Wyatt Teller: 60.0 (82)

Teven Jenkins: 60.0 (2)

Jack Conklin: 53.1 (39)

Luke Wypler: 52.6 (3)

Ethan Pocic: 50.0 (82)

KT Leveston: 42.9 (48)

Cam Robinson: 38.3 (80)

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...owns-offense-graded-vs-the-steelers.html

Browns defense week 6 PFF Grades.

Here’s how the defense graded according to Pro Football Focus:
(PFF grades every player on every play and uses a scale of 0-100, with higher grades indicating better play. PFF has explained its grades this way: 100-90 elite; 89-85 Pro Bowler; 84-70 starter; 69-60 backup; 59-0 replaceable. In other words, it’s similar to how we would match up percentages with traditional letter grades in school.)

DEFENSIVE END

Myles Garrett: 89.8 (40)

Joe Tryon-Shoyinka: 78.7 (7)

Alex Wright: 64.7 (40)

Cameron Thomas: 50.6 (16)

Isaiah McGuire: 43.2 (15)

DEFENSIVE TACKLE

Maliek Collins: 74.2 (37)

Mason Graham: 63.0 (39)

Shelby Harris: 61.7 (27)

Adin Huntington: 59.9 (17)

LINEBACKER

Devin Bush: 75.7 (52)

Jerome Baker: 68.9 (18)

Mohamoud Diabate: 55.3 (21)

Carson Schwesinger: 46.1 (59)

CORNERBACK

Denzel Ward: 64.5 (59)

Myles Harden: 62.7 (17)

Dom Jones: 60.9 (2)

Tyson Campbell: 59.2 (53)

SAFETY

Grant Delpit: 67.7 (58)

Rayshawn Jenkins: 57.4 (12)

Ronnie Hickman Jr.: (59)

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...owns-defense-graded-vs-the-steelers.html

All those numbers feel (at least) directionally accurate.

Not much to hang our hats on from that game. I'm generally anti-coaching-changes, but the first HC exit of the year has begun, and simple reality is that if the team continues to follow the arc they're currently on it's gonna be really hard to justify keeping this coaching staff intact.

I believe this:

1. The FO was hoping to squeeze one last good year from our aging OL. I don’t think they envisioned our OL was going to be this terrible. Losing Dawand Jones - as iffy as he is, led to the domino effect.


2. They thought Jeudy was on the upward trend as far as being a standout receiver. All he usually does is drop the damn ball. But it all goes back to the OL play.

The FO did try to draft some young talent for the O-Line. Unfortunately, up to this point they haven't been too good. WR position is another matter. That we really have neglected and it shows.

Browns playing with 10 men on the field.