DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Gameday vs Pittsburgh Postgame Thoughts

I predicted we would win 5-6 games this season. Now I honestly don't think we can win that many. Another sad season and honestly there's no end in sight. I don't think firing anyone at this point will do any good because the season is lost. I would wait until it's over and assess everything then.

Thanks for the numbers. Tour opinion of the mix? Not what I want for a rookie QB. Shelve this offense. Painful to watch. KS is inept[.

They just played the toughest part of their schedule. Even before the season started people said they didn't know if there was a win to be had during this stretch. Suddenly it seems everyone has forgotten about that. I certainly agree that things look bleak at this point but aren't these losses about what everyone expected before the season started?

I'm not trying to fool myself into thinking the Browns are good. They're certainly not. But the only hope we had this would be a good season was if an aging Flacco somehow progressed from last season. At his age you don't usually get better as you get older. Anyone that understands the draft process is fully aware the risk verses reward factor in drafting a QB in round 3. So all of this gnashing of nails about how they drafted GB to be a savior is just a load of BS.

As soon as they traded down the plan was obvious they were loading up for this coming draft to address the QB position.

Sadly what is happening now is at least somewhere close to what we should have expected. It's not pretty and it's not fun.

I don't want you to think this is directed strictly to you. It's a reflection of the overall theme I'm seeing here. I sat and read people that seemed at least somewhat rational before the season began. The team told us they wanted to see what the rookie QB's had this season. Many posters said they shouldn't start Gabriele until week 6. That starting him earlier against these tough teams with such good D's with this OL could destroy the kid. It's like they knew exactly what was coming.

Now that what they saw coming and they were right about seems to be happening they act like it's some huge shock and they are appalled by it.

The people who have been doom and gloomers for what seems like forever now have gathered more recruits as a result.

On the one hand you are spot on - and it's always easier to talk about the team being bad pre-season than watching a losing season and going through a really tough part of the schedule. However - I'd argue that while this team was expected to struggle due to a talent deficit or a rebuild, the on-field product reveals profound failures that go beyond mere losing. We are witnessing systemic, organizational failure and a lack of leadership by the HC that is beyond the level of struggle that was anticipated by even the most pssimistic Browns fan. A call for the change in leadership is not a reaction to the record, but a reaction to just how much worse than expected the team, especially the offense which is allegedly KS strength, has performed. Discipline, pre-snap penalties, execution, adpation to incorporating a rookie QB... take your pick. It's a long list.

Some will want to keep the FO intact. I know I wanted to keep HUE when he went 0-16 ... stability, time, better talent. Various reasons to hold that opinion. Some will have had enough for at least an equal number of valid reasons ... I'm definitely in that camp.

Well said Pit

I believe the worse part of it, is watching the Browns shoot themselves in the foot.

It's not like teams are dominating the Browns.

I understand what you're saying Pit. I was one of the ones that posted that we'll probably be 1-5 after the first 6 games. I also said that to friends of mine. We honestly should be 3-3 right now as we literally threw away the Bengals and Vikings games. However, even with the tough part of our schedule over I don't see us winning much simply because of the way we've looked. The only team left on the schedule we should beat is the Jets. Most of the other games we will probably be underdogs. Wait and see what happens.

I'm just not sure what "leadership" you are referring to? Human beings are human beings. Judy at one point was a very sure handed WR. Now he is dropping the ball. The same goes for Njoku. It's not as if you can teach them or will them to catch the ball. You can't make an aging interior OL regain their youth. You can't make inferior OT's into good ones. Some things are simply not humanly possible.

I'm not sure how Stefanksi is supposed to take a crappy OL and make them better with "leadership". I'm not sure how he is supposed to take a very weak WR group better with "leadership". The Steelers had more penalties than the Browns yesterday and I'm pretty sure you don't question their leadership. I mean I get your assertion. It's like Rocky. A poor, under talented boxer finds some hidden inner strength to compete against the best boxer in the world while at the same time being severely outmatched. It's a very nice web to weave. But life isn't a movie.

I've said this before. I'm not sure how you can expect a man to be a five star chef when you provide him with substandard ingredients.

I'm not really trying to argue that we don't need new leadership. I know that may be the perception but it's not my intent. What I do know is Stefanski has shown in the past that he can do a lot with a little. It does not however seem to be that he can do that on a consistent basis. But then who can?

But this is the NFL. And that stands for "Not For Long" if you can't build a winner and if you're not winning games. There have been instances with past HC's and FO's when I don't feel the owner has given them enough time to produce a winner. That certainly isn't the case here.

I think my sticking points on this are two fold.

1. I do not think this FO has given Stefanski the talent on O to begin with. We have an entire analytics department and scouting department that combined make millions with which to do that job and a GM whose job it is to do that.

2. I reject this entire "All decisions are made by consensus." For that to happen every member of a group of people would have to agree on all decisions. That's not how anything works. People disagree on what shade of blue the sky is on any given day. It just doesn't make sense to me that you pay an entire analytics department, an entire scouting department only to have the HC whose number one priority is to coach the team having equal input into those decisions.

He has no idea what players on the market would fit into the salary cap numbers. He doesn't create or analyze every spread sheet. He doesn't have time to review hundreds and hundreds of hours of film accumulated on every and all players in the draft. If he could do all of that there would be no need for an analytics and scouting department.

So it's not like I don't get it. I do. Everyone bases their opinions on what they do or don't believe to be true.

But the bottom line is this team isn't winning this year and didn't win last year. Looking at this roster and their play it shouldn't look this way after five full seasons. I believe the main problem is the make-up of the roster itself and not so much the man responsible for trying to turn water into wine in this situation.

But this entire FO and HC are tied at the hip. They came in together and there is a high probability they will go out together. It's an entire body of work accumulated by all of them. So as one goes they all go.

While I may have a different view than some in regards to where most of the fault lies, looking at it big picture I could understand the owner firing the lot of them and starting over. I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it.

At this point I don't lose any sleep over anything that goes on with the Browns. I'm past all that now. And even Stefanski's "leadership" can't fix that.

It's not as if I think I'm right and others are wrong. I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. But if as some believe that everything is done in some spirit of Kumbaya and total agreement by consensus, it may very well have been agreed on that they would pass on a QB in the 2025 draft, focus on a two year window to address the teams weaknesses and understood all of this is what they expected this season. Which would mean nobody gets fired this year. I don't have any better guess than anyone else does in that regard.

I surely don't think Haslam expected this team to win this season and if he's as meddling of an owner as many indicate he is if he was pushing for a winner now he would have forced their hand into drafting a QB early.

Who knows?

Browns Offense Week 6 PFF Grades

Here’s how the offense graded according to Pro Football Focus:

(PFF grades every player on every play and uses a scale of 0-100, with higher grades indicating better play. PFF has explained its grades this way: 100-90 elite; 89-85 Pro Bowler; 84-70 starter; 69-60 backup; 59-0 replaceable. In other words, it’s similar to how we would match up percentages with traditional letter grades in school.)

QUARTERBACK

Dillon Gabriel: 51.1 (82)

RUNNING BACKS

Dylan Sampson: 68.0 (15)

Adin Huntington: 60.0 (1)

Jerome Ford: 56.8 (33)

Quinshon Judkins: 54.7 (33)

WIDE RECEIVER

Jerry Jeudy: 60.4 (73)

Malachi Corley: 59.1 (2)

Jamari Thrash: 59.0 (37)

Gage Larvadain: 56.3 (13)

Isaiah Bond: 50.9 (71)

TIGHT END

Harold Fannin Jr.: 67.2 (66)

Blake Whiteheart: 48.2 (22)

David Njoku: 29.3 (36)

OFFENSIVE LINE

Joel Bitonio: 64.7 (82)

Wyatt Teller: 60.0 (82)

Teven Jenkins: 60.0 (2)

Jack Conklin: 53.1 (39)

Luke Wypler: 52.6 (3)

Ethan Pocic: 50.0 (82)

KT Leveston: 42.9 (48)

Cam Robinson: 38.3 (80)

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...owns-offense-graded-vs-the-steelers.html

Browns defense week 6 PFF Grades.

Here’s how the defense graded according to Pro Football Focus:
(PFF grades every player on every play and uses a scale of 0-100, with higher grades indicating better play. PFF has explained its grades this way: 100-90 elite; 89-85 Pro Bowler; 84-70 starter; 69-60 backup; 59-0 replaceable. In other words, it’s similar to how we would match up percentages with traditional letter grades in school.)

DEFENSIVE END

Myles Garrett: 89.8 (40)

Joe Tryon-Shoyinka: 78.7 (7)

Alex Wright: 64.7 (40)

Cameron Thomas: 50.6 (16)

Isaiah McGuire: 43.2 (15)

DEFENSIVE TACKLE

Maliek Collins: 74.2 (37)

Mason Graham: 63.0 (39)

Shelby Harris: 61.7 (27)

Adin Huntington: 59.9 (17)

LINEBACKER

Devin Bush: 75.7 (52)

Jerome Baker: 68.9 (18)

Mohamoud Diabate: 55.3 (21)

Carson Schwesinger: 46.1 (59)

CORNERBACK

Denzel Ward: 64.5 (59)

Myles Harden: 62.7 (17)

Dom Jones: 60.9 (2)

Tyson Campbell: 59.2 (53)

SAFETY

Grant Delpit: 67.7 (58)

Rayshawn Jenkins: 57.4 (12)

Ronnie Hickman Jr.: (59)

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...owns-defense-graded-vs-the-steelers.html

All those numbers feel (at least) directionally accurate.

Not much to hang our hats on from that game. I'm generally anti-coaching-changes, but the first HC exit of the year has begun, and simple reality is that if the team continues to follow the arc they're currently on it's gonna be really hard to justify keeping this coaching staff intact.

I believe this:

1. The FO was hoping to squeeze one last good year from our aging OL. I don’t think they envisioned our OL was going to be this terrible. Losing Dawand Jones - as iffy as he is, led to the domino effect.


2. They thought Jeudy was on the upward trend as far as being a standout receiver. All he usually does is drop the damn ball. But it all goes back to the OL play.