DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Now

Sure was.

Ok, maybe we're talking about two different things... I thought we were talking about who could help us this year.

If I was misunderstanding, then yeah I definitely agree with you. I think there's more value in getting backup OL for us in the long (and short) term vs a potential backup QB. I'm not sure what another guard would do for us right now, though.

Yeah, but who doesn't love a good cheesecake?

If all the pieces are in place, the years of processes by the scouting team, and the type of skill set you believe you'll need for your team - why do you need some outside consultant to bless your selection? Is that not the reason that all these people get paid for? If we need a consultant - we don't have a strong GM.

To me, after the people or supposed experts on my payroll have made a decision that I, the HC, owner and other principles have reviewed - it would be a cold day in hell before I would allow our collaborated work to be shipped out to some nonemployee to check my work.

What do you think would be the Browns response if they get another swing and miss on a franchisee QB? From past experience it would be, "Well Berry didn't make that call - it came from the top". The question is, Is Berry a GM or just a placeholder in name alone?

What I want and what the Browns brass want is probably much different. IMO though, the QB should be at a minimum 6'2" or 6'3". the QB needs to be mobile but not a running QB. Arm strength needs to be superior but can sacrifice some for a history of proven accuracy. Leadership is a must as is attitude. Release time is very important. If you're getting 4-5 seconds in college to throw, you will have problems at the NFL level. Being able to read and release quick has half the battle won at the NFL level. My biggest concern is can the Browns find a Stefanski scheme QB or will this be another QB that Stefanski tries to change. Most QB's in college work almost entirely from the shotgun. Stefanski wants an under-center QB to run his play action scheme. If you look at the only 2 successful QB's (IMO) that Stefanski has coached up was Brissett and Flacco. Pure pocket passers that can play under center. Watson couldn't do it and Mayfield was extremely weak at it. Both of their successes have been playing in the gun which goes completely opposite of Stefanski's offensive scheme.

Actually it wouldn't be the first time Haslam sought help from outside of the organization to consult over drafting a QB.

During the 2013 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns did use outside consultants, specifically former Green Bay Packers executive Eliot Wolf, to help evaluate quarterback prospects. The front office, which included CEO Joe Banner and general manager Mike Lombardi, considered multiple candidates while having the sixth overall pick.

Report: Browns consulting Bill Parcells on Draft's QBs

Cleveland is soliciting several different opinions in order to get this decision correct.

The Cleveland Browns are already employing former Washington Redskins General Manager Scot McCloughan as an NFL Draft consultant.

According to WalterFootball.com, the franchise is also consulting former NFL head coach and executive Bill Parcells.

"Sources didn't reveal which quarterback or quarterbacks Parcells was the highest on, but it sounded like he wasn't a fan of UCLA's Josh Rosen. In the past, Parcells has believed that for a general rule, he wanted his quarterbacks to have started for three years or had 30 starts in their college career. Of those parameters here's how the quarterbacks rank in terms of playing experience: Baker Mayfield (48 games), Lamar Jackson (38 games), Rosen (30 games), Sam Darnold (27 games), and Josh Allen (27 games)."

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...lls-on-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-115991506/

I agree with you that it most likely won't happen but it's not as if it's as far fetched as it's made out to be.

I think the problem more often than not is square peg round hole. Example. If you're going to mortgage the future on Deshawn Watson, then immediately change your system to match the skill set of the QB you just sold the farm for. Stefanski is looking for another Kirk Cousins that excelled in his system. Baker in 2020 was executing the Stefanski offense for about 8 games with Chubb running the ball like Stefanski wanted. Then came 2021 and Baker tried to be a gun slinger, and he and Stefanski butted heads many times. Until Stefanski told Berry he could not work with Baker. Then the trade for a QB that was further away from being Cousins than Baker was.

I actually believe that Dillon Gabriel's mind is exactly what Stefanski is looking for he just does not have the physical talent to be Cousins. If the Browns stick with Berry and Kevin, I do think both Mendoza and Simpson can learn to operate a system like Stefanski's and both seem like they have the ability and personality that Stefanski can work with. The issue will be that with a rookie QB, basically a new Oline, and most offensive talent as rookies and year 2 players can berry and Stefanski survive another tough season in 2026. If they are allowed to stay and make the QB selection, they need to then have 3 years to make that work with their new QB. If they are not given that time then they must be fired this off season and the new GM and coach be given time to build around the young QB and offense.

So then are you trying to say that Baker went rogue and ignored the calls Stefanski made and called his own plays?


What evidence do you have to support that? How can you be so sure that it wasn't Haslam that wanted watson and told the FO to go out and him?

Sure a lot of accusations based on guess work in that post.

Exactly how I feel. Pride and personal feelings aside, get the help you need to finally find our franchise QB. Do it for the Cleveland Browns and especially, do it for the long-suffering fans. We all deserve a lot better than we've gotten!

What now?

We continue to lose. I don't see anything ever changing. On one hand, I think we should have a fire sale, trade everyone we can for picks and clean house. On the other hand, bringing in a new crew that is stuck with Watson contract is setting them up to fail. I don't see Haslam learning from his mistakes. So we'll continue to lose.

I like how the Browns might fix the QB position with Mendoza, Simpson, Moore, and maybe Sorsby or Sellers with their first pick.

What I find interesting. Where does Sanders stand with Stefanski and the Browns? If the Browns are tanking, which I believe they are, have they kept Sanders on ice for a reason? They are developing him, so basically, he is getting a year with the Browns instead of another year in college. Everyone THINKS they need to play Gabriel and Sanders! But, do they?

The Browns have connections with the three ranked QBs. Musgrave coached Mendoza. Rees coached Simpson. Gabriel played with Moore. Berry and Stefanski knew it would take Sanders a year to develop. When he fell to the fifth round, it made sense to draft him. Now they have Sanders, Mendoza, Simpson, and Moore to choose as their future quarterback.

Another thing to note. Quarterbacks who have stronger mental talent than athletic ability take longer to develop. Gabriel is struggling, but he needs the playing time to improve. He doesn't have the athletic ability to overcome some of his deficiencies.

They need to upgrade the LT position. As it stands, I don't see a stand-out left tackle.

With the Jacksonville pick, as of now, it looks like it is the #12 or #13 pick. The Browns could potentially draft receivers Tyson, Lemon, or Tate.

OR they could fill a void for when Ward finishes his career and draft Caleb Downs. Yes, I understand Downs doesn't play corner. If you have an elite safety, you can play with a lesser corner.

Berry and Stefanski could be well ahead of the curve here. Think what the Browns could do if Sanders has proven he is as good or better than the three QBs in this next draft.

We are NFL fans living life on this planet. We don't DESERVE anything. We just cry like babies when we don;t get everything our hearts desire.

Isn't it more than simply picking the best players or Right Players... Isn't it also using them to the best of THEIR abilities?

Don't have to look much further than Mayfield. He showed he had the skills but did we put him in a position to be better? I'm using Mayfield as an example only he's the most recent.

We were doing that before it was cool. We just allowed the OL to age/degrade since the Watson trade. At this moment in time, we have adequately replaced nobody on the Oline since before that trade went down. Hopefully Zinter and Wypler end up being starters, but the interior of the line is the same, and only person we've attempted to replace is Wills (with Dawand Jones, which hasn't panned out).

Is that due to bad hires, or is it lack of Cap Space?

I think lack of cap space and lack of draft picks are reasons 1 and 2... and I certainly understand the logic of saying who we have making those choices are to blame as well.

We seem VERY reluctant to spend high for receivers. Less so for OL back when we had the cap to do so.

We had one (specialist), he now is HC for Patriots

Missing those pics we gave up for Watson were a big big part of what we didn't get. In all honesty, we don't know what we would have gotten.... We can look at what was available and speculate but that's it.

I keep going back to what was the plan to build/sustain competitiveness assuming DW was going to be a legit FQB? What was the plan to obtain OL as the present guys started to age out? What was the plan to get playmakers on offense.

They KNEW they would be without those draft picks...that was not a surprise. If Watson DID pan out, we'd still have an old OL and a lack of playmakers.

They missed it with BM...they missed it with DW...and they failed to address what was plain to see coming...while spending more cash than any other team in the league.

The last thing we need with these clowns is more time and continuity.

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson

I had no idea Callahan had an aging machine that caused the OL to age past their primes.

He was going to go coach with his son regardless.

It was reported that he didn't care for the way Van Pelt was dumped by the Browns.

A lot of things get "reported". Separating fact from fiction in that department is nearly impossible.

What we know to be true is his son got the HC'ing job in Nashville. His son offered him the same job he had here as their OL coach. Then comes the only questions left to be answered are.....

What coach in the NFL would turn down the opportunity to work with their son who landed a head coaching position in the NFL?

What coach in the NFL would not do everything in their power to help their son succeed as an NFL HC?

For me the answer to those questions makes things rather obvious.

Report Indicates Cleveland Browns Lost Bill Callahan Over Costly Decision
https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/onsi/...owns-lost-key-coach-over-costly-decision

After an embarrassing 3-14 season, the Cleveland Browns are left trying to answer why things things went poorly in 2024?

That question starts on the offensive side of the ball, where Cleveland boasted one of the worst offenses in the history of football for the first seven weeks of the season with quarterback Deshaun Watson under center. The embattled QB was certainly part of the problem – a major reason why his absence following a season-ending Achilles injury seemed to benefit the team. Watson was hardly the only issue though.

A veteran offensive line that once was a strength of the Browns regressed massively under new o-line coach Andy Dickerson, leading to Mike Vrabel – serving as a consultant last year – working closely with the group as the season wore on. The orgins of Cleveland's o-line struggles, however, could be traced back to the team allowing legendary position coach Bill Callahan out of his contract to go coach with his son Brian Callahan, who became the head coach of the Tennessee Titans.

At the time it looked liked the Browns simply doing right by a father, by allowing him the unique opportunity to coach with his kid. A new piece by Jason Lloyd of The Athletic paints a much different picture though.

According to Lloyd, some within the Browns believed Callahan was more inclined to stay with the franchise if they hadn't previously fired offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt earlier in the offseason.

"I’ve spoken to players who believe Callahan would have stayed had Van Pelt remained on staff — when Brian first started receiving head-coaching interviews in 2023, Bill made clear he was staying in Cleveland — but all of that seemed to change when Van Pelt was fired," wrote Lloyd. "Andy Dickerson was hired to replace Callahan. The changes were a disaster."

One year later, the organization fired Dickerson and hired former Rice head coach Mike Bloomgren to fill the void left initially by Callahan in 2024.

Meanwhile, Van Pelt's exit at the time may not have seemed like a major deal, particularly because head coach Kevin Stefanski was the team's primary play-caller, it appears the ripple effects of that decision may have been more devastating than it seemed.

NFL insider Albert Breer of the Sports Illustrated has gone as far as referring to Van Pelt a "glue guy" on Cleveland's staff during his four years on Stefanski's staff. This latest report would certainly give more credence to the idea that he was held in high esteem not only among players but his fellow coaches as well.

It's long been said by the organization that decisions with the coaching staff are made by Stefanski himself. Some reporting suggests, however, that Stefanski was urged to make a change at OC last offseason by forces above his pay grade in an effort to appease Watson.

That decision may not have only cost the Browns one of the best position coaches in the business, but also may have served as an initial source of the teams struggles in 2024.

So that actually makes more sense to you? Like I said, there are reports of all kinds. Many of them are false. I'll go with it makes sense that very few men are qualified and have the golden opportunity to work with their sons which become an NFL HC. That's a once in lifetime opportunity. I know as a father if I were qualified and had the opportunity to do so I could and would never pass up. To me that makes perfect sense.

But if you believe some rumor mill report over being given such a golden opportunity so be it. As we see in society today, no matter the evidence or logic involved people are going to believe what they want to believe.

I agree he would likely turn it down. I doubt there was really anything that would have prevented him from working with his son in Nashville. And I don't think anyone can blame him for that.

I'm fully aware that coaches and executives salaries have no bearing on the salary cap.

We always look back. Callahan is done here in Cleveland.

"You can never go back" is a saying with a lot of truth.

It's just never the same.

And guess who's available again!