Every person in this country has a right to due process regardless of status under the constitution and that was reaffirmed by the SCOTUS. The Supreme Court has reaffirmed twice this year that non-citizens have a fundamental right to challenge their detention and removal through habeas corpus.
Maybe you should try to look at a few facts first before stating your feelings and beliefs as facts when they most certainly are not.
Criminals which illegal aliens are should not have rights.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
Every person in this country has a right to due process regardless of status under the constitution and that was reaffirmed by the SCOTUS. The Supreme Court has reaffirmed twice this year that non-citizens have a fundamental right to challenge their detention and removal through habeas corpus.
Maybe you should try to look at a few facts first before stating your feelings and beliefs as facts when they most certainly are not.
Criminals which illegal aliens are should not have rights.
How does what you "think and feel" change the constitution? It doesn't.
You do realize that in our country everyone that is arrested for committing a crime has the right to legal counsel and a trial, right? Or are you just talking about the brown people? Or are you saying only the crime of being here illegally doesn't deserve due process but every crime committed by everyone else deserves due process for the crime they're accused of except for immigration?
When you go off the deep end like this it makes it hard to understand what the hell it is you're trying to say.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Eventually. But how does that make what they went through alright or okay?
Quote
Seems like a small percentage compared to the number of arrests and people detained for shipment back to where ever .
And there it is just as I expected. Your excuse for arresting and detaining people they should have never detained in the first place is, because you know, " You have to crack some eggs to make an omelette". I mean it was only 170 people so no harm, no foul. Am I right?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Every person in this country has a right to due process regardless of status under the constitution and that was reaffirmed by the SCOTUS. The Supreme Court has reaffirmed twice this year that non-citizens have a fundamental right to challenge their detention and removal through habeas corpus.
Maybe you should try to look at a few facts first before stating your feelings and beliefs as facts when they most certainly are not.
Criminals which illegal aliens are should not have rights.
How does what you "think and feel" change the constitution? It doesn't.
You do realize that in our country everyone that is arrested for committing a crime has the right to legal counsel and a trial, right? Or are you just talking about the brown people? Or are you saying only the crime of being here illegally doesn't deserve due process but every crime committed by everyone else deserves due process for the crime they're accused of except for immigration?
When you go off the deep end like this it makes it hard to understand what the hell it is you're trying to say.
I do not agree with protecting criminals. I am for punishing criminals.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
Do you think that the constitution guaranteeing everyone being accused of a crime having the right to a legal defense and a trial to face their accuser is "protection"?
And if so, without that wouldn't they just be able to accuse anyone of a crime and lock them up without due process? Can you imagine how many innocent people would be in prison?
That's exactly why we have due process. To punish the guilty while protecting the innocent.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Do you think that the constitution guaranteeing everyone being accused of a crime having the right to a legal defense and a trial to face their accuser is "protection"?
And if so, without that wouldn't they just be able to accuse anyone of a crime and lock them up without due process? Can you imagine how many innocent people would be in prison?
That's exactly why we have due process. To punish the guilty while protecting the innocent.
I do not see gathering someone in our Country illegally, detaining them, and then deporting them out as violating their due process. Same as if someone broke into my home illegally there will be no questions asked. They should have thought about the consequences before the act was committed.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
This might be picking nits but my understanding is that crossing the border illegally is a civil offense not a criminal offense. Correct me if I am mistaken.
The difference between Jesus and religion Religion mocks you for having dirty feet Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
I do not see gathering someone in our Country illegally, detaining them, and then deporting them out as violating their due process. Same as if someone broke into my home illegally there will be no questions asked. They should have thought about the consequences before the act was committed.
If someone breaks into your home they have the right to an attorney and have the right to a trial. That's the law and a guaranteed constitutional right. Do you not think the constitution apples when you disagree with it? Or do you mean if you are home you would kill them? Is that what you're saying? Are you trying to indicate that just killing immigrants is justified because they "broke in"? Because if you aren't home when they break in they will live to get a trial.
Due process is the right to legal representation and a trial. Denying that to anyone is by its very definition violating their due process. I'm not sure what part of that you don't understand.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It's a misdemeanor. Maximum sentence is up to 6 months in jail.
While the very poor example he is trying to compare it to is burglary which can carry up to as much as 14 years in prison in a state like California and is a felony as it pertains to entering a residence.
Overstaying a visa is a civil offense.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I do not see gathering someone in our Country illegally, ....as violating their due process..
Sooo .... you have no idea what due process means . Got it.
It is a shame that folks like you and Pit do not care as much for our citizens that were victims of these illegals as you do for these illegals. Sad!!!
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
It's sad that you try to use such a tactic when all I have done is point out the constitutional guarantees of all people who reside within our country. I think everyone who has committed a crime should be prosecuted and punished for their crimes. That's no excuse not to use due process in order to accomplish that.
It's a shame that people like you don't care about the constitution which this country was founded on. You sure do care about the second amendment though. Sad. You only care about the constitution when you like what it says. Murica! Freedumb!
Patriots support the constitution. Not just the parts of it they like.
You want to crawl in the weeds? Let's do it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It's sad that you try to use such a tactic when all I have done is point out the constitutional guarantees of all people who reside within our country. I think everyone who has committed a crime should be prosecuted and punished for their crimes. That's no excuse not to use due process in order to accomplish that.
It's a shame that people like you don't care about the constitution which this country was founded on. You sure do care about the second amendment though. Sad. You only care about the constitution when you like what it says. Murica! Freedumb!
Patriots support the constitution. Not just the parts of it they like.
You want to crawl in the weeds? Let's do it.
No, you support criminals and I support citizens' rights.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I support the very words of the law. The guarantees of the constitution. You support breaking the law and ignoring the constitution. There is nothing right about that. That's why you refuse to engage in any substantive debate at this juncture. You can't actually argue against the rule of law so now you just resort to hurling insults. No wonder trump, loves the uneducated and said that smart people don't like him. It's here in print for all to see.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I do not see gathering someone in our Country illegally, ....as violating their due process..
Sooo .... you have no idea what due process means . Got it.
It is a shame that folks like you and Pit do not care as much for our citizens that were victims of these illegals as you do for these illegals. Sad!!!
So far, all you've done is demonstrate you don't understand what due process actually means (much less looks like in practice)... and then when challenged you've done nothing to refute that assertion.
That, or you don't care. I'm not sure which is worse. Due process is a core piece of our justice system and as it erodes we'll start looking more and more like Russia (for example).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
It's sad that you try to use such a tactic when all I have done is point out the constitutional guarantees of all people who reside within our country. I think everyone who has committed a crime should be prosecuted and punished for their crimes. That's no excuse not to use due process in order to accomplish that.
It's a shame that people like you don't care about the constitution which this country was founded on. You sure do care about the second amendment though. Sad. You only care about the constitution when you like what it says. Murica! Freedumb!
Patriots support the constitution. Not just the parts of it they like.
You want to crawl in the weeds? Let's do it.
No, you support criminals and I support citizens' rights.
Citizen rights include protecting children from people you support.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Just my opinion - but this is it. In spades. For the poster you were talking to, to others on this board who once held rational conversations and expessed opinions. The Steve Bannons in the world, The Miller's along with Trump or maybe even using Trump as a tool - have created such a narrative that the country and the American way of life is under threat - that people in their right wing echo chambers get fed a constant stream of how bad everything is and that the entire root cause of nearly ALL our problems lies with people with brown skin who are immigrants. . . They get fed lies, they get fed counter arguments that are faulty but none the less appear to address or respond to things like due process and observable fact based reality. Everything from white replacement theory to trying to control and manipulate the education system - it has one agenda. And it's working - people are literally brain washed. I've said for a long time on this board - Europe is far far to the left of the Democratic Party in the USA. None of the EU contries are communist. Yet that label has been used to brand the Dems = and it has stuck. We see it here. It's complete and utter folly and shows how manipulated people are and how easy they are to be fed what to think and say and how to respond. After the Kirk assasination - we were fed a stream of how it is the unhinged Left that is creating the hate and division - and yet for literally over a decade since Trump first ran - anyone not on the MAGA train was unAmerican and a threat to our culture. We see Trump spamming soc media calling the Dems traitors saying their actions are punishable by death. The hypocrisy and the postions that are so easily undermined by just a little critical thinking - all of it is ignored because they don't care. The ends justify the means - Due Process is inconvinient and takes too long. There's too many cases to handle and each case takes too long - ergo it's okay to cut corners and undermine the justice system. It's okay to undermine individual judges and question their impartiality. It's okay to appoint sycophants in position of power to prosecute political opponents. . . They don't care.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
ICE, the way it's being used today, yes, I agree. But when operated within the law... I got no problem with them
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by OCD
ICE is trash. Abolish ICE.
ICE, the way it's being used today, yes, I agree. But when operated within the law... I got no problem with them
How are they currently operating outside of the law? It's not illegal to pick up illegal aliens. I agree there is now an increased effort to enforce where in the past there hasn't.
On a different level you see this with traffic enforcement all the time. For a long period of time you can cruise down the road well above the limit, then one day the police decide to enforce and you see cars pulled over up and down the road getting tickets.
Oh, I see, you have your orange colored glasses on again, Geez
Everything they do is Just Dandy. No Rights are being trampled on, nobody is getting injured! As if!
I have no problem removing illegals. none. I just don't want our constitution trampled on to accomplish it. I'm really surprised you aren't leading the charge for that. But the Orange guys hand picked looney tune crew just don't care.. And neither does he. And apparently, neither do you!
illegal aliens have 0 rights. Hence, they are illegal!!!
You are the reason for most of Americas problems.,,,,,
They DO have rights., You'd know that if you bothered to check
"Yes, undocumented immigrants have First Amendment rights, which include freedom of speech, religion, assembly, and the press, as the Constitution protects the rights of all "persons" on U.S. soil, regardless of immigration status. However, the application of these rights, especially in the context of immigration enforcement, can be limited and subject to specific laws that do not apply to citizens, meaning immigrants have fewer rights than citizens and the extent of protection can be inconsistent."
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
ICE, the way it's being used today, yes, I agree. But when operated within the law... I got no problem with them
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by OCD
ICE is trash. Abolish ICE.
ICE, the way it's being used today, yes, I agree. But when operated within the law... I got no problem with them
How are they currently operating outside of the law? It's not illegal to pick up illegal aliens. I agree there is now an increased effort to enforce where in the past there hasn't.
On a different level you see this with traffic enforcement all the time. For a long period of time you can cruise down the road well above the limit, then one day the police decide to enforce and you see cars pulled over up and down the road getting tickets.
Oh, I see, you have your orange colored glasses on again, Geez
Everything they do is Just Dandy. No Rights are being trampled on, nobody is getting injured! As if!
I have no problem removing illegals. none. I just don't want our constitution trampled on to accomplish it. I'm really surprised you aren't leading the charge for that. But the Orange guys hand picked looney tune crew just don't care.. And neither does he. And apparently, neither do you!
illegal aliens have 0 rights. Hence, they are illegal!!!
You are the reason for most of Americas problems.,,,,,
They DO have rights., You'd know that if you bothered to check
"Yes, undocumented immigrants have First Amendment rights, which include freedom of speech, religion, assembly, and the press, as the Constitution protects the rights of all "persons" on U.S. soil, regardless of immigration status. However, the application of these rights, especially in the context of immigration enforcement, can be limited and subject to specific laws that do not apply to citizens, meaning immigrants have fewer rights than citizens and the extent of protection can be inconsistent."
I think, to an extent, we all fall victim to to whatever echo chamber we most closely align with. I don't think anyone is immune to it... I catch myself doing the same thing. So even though I do get frustrated and that will show in my posts, I try to remember that the real fight is the citizens vs our politicians... not any "right vs left" type of thing. When you zoom out far enough, there's no real difference between Pelosi and Gym Jordan (for example). Some situations illustrate this far clearer than others, but I will absolutely die on this hill. So from that perspective, I can still try to find common ground with Day of the Dawg. Illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be solved, and both parties have wholly refused to make a legitimate attempt to do so (Dems moreso than GOP). That in itself is its own big problem.
What I'm trying to say is that while Trump pushing boundaries far more than he should (sometimes to the point of damaging core pieces of our democracy like peaceful transfer of power, core rights enshrined via long-standing amendments and core principles like due process), it's also worth pointing out that many of these tactics have precedent that stretch back far past either of his terms and have been used comfortably by both parties. In some ways, Trump isn't the problem but more of a symptom of the larger problems plaguing our govt. From that perspective, the DNC shares equal responsibility with GOP for Trump being elected president.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
To some extent I don't disagree with you but I've never in my lifetime seen such total disregard for the law and human decency. We have a president that calls women reporters names, who has cut off aid to starving children around the globe while in turn gave Argentina 40 billion dollars. Who instructs the DOJ to investigate his political enemies and they comply within hours. I could compile a long list of unprecedented events that make this far different than anything we've ever seen before. This entire "they are both the same" no longer applies as it has in the past.
There have been many times in the past that you and I could both point to many examples that both parties resemble each other in many ways. That the main disagreements were over policy and not blatant attacks and a president ruing by proclamation without any resemblance of checks and balances. That rules with social media posts. Many of which are disgusting to put it mildly. This isn't one of those times.
Finding common ground with someone who is openly saying we should ignore the law and the constitution I find quite hard to ever accept. Unless this is a case where you disagree with him. The actual problem becomes he has no debate to make. Only outlandish proclamations that are neither grounded in fact and no substance to support them. Just ranting like a mad man. As is almost always the case.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Judge dismisses charges against 2 people accused of ramming vehicle of federal agents conducting Chicago immigration sweeps
The Department of Justice asked the judge to drop the charges.
A federal judge on Thursday dismissed the indictment against two people accused last month of "ambushing" federal agents conducting an immigration sweep in Chicago, including a woman who was shot five times in the incident.
U.S. District Judge Georgia Alexakis dismissed the charges against Marimar Martinez and Anthony Ruiz after the Department of Justice abruptly requested her to do so.
Alexakis dismissed the charges with prejudice, meaning the case cannot be brought back.
The government filed a motion earlier Thursday asking the judge to "dismiss the indictment" against Martinez and Ruiz, who were involved in a collision with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents in Chicago on Oct. 4.
The incident set off street protests on Chicago's Southwest Side.
Martinez’s attorney, Christopher Parente, told ABC News on Thursday that he and his client are relieved by the government's decision.
"We appreciate the U.S. attorney being thoughtful in agreeing to dismiss this," Parente said.
Martinez thanked the judge and "everybody that supported me."
"I'm just grateful for everything," Martinez told reporters after the hearing. "I'm just happy. I'm excited."
Parente told reporters that Martinez didn't deserve to be shot and that they are "going to work on getting her justice," but for now are thankful that the prosecutors "did the right thing."
Martinez, 30, and Ruiz, 21, were accused by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) of being part of a convoy of protesters in vehicles that converged on CPB agents and rammed their vehicle during what the DHS called an "ambush."
An October DHS statement said CBP agents opened fire on Martinez in self-defense, alleging she was "armed with a semi-automatic weapon" and was driving one of three vehicles that "cornered" and rammed the CBP agents' vehicle.
Martinez was later found to have a handgun in her purse, for which she had a license and a concealed carry permit, according to Parente. Martinez was never charged with any weapons offense in connection with the vehicular incident.
Martinez and Ruiz were both charged with assault with a deadly weapon in the alleged ramming attack.
DHS officials initially described Martinez, Ruiz and the other protesters involved in the incident as "domestic terrorists."
During Thursday's hearing, Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald DeWald consented to dismissing the case with prejudice.
"We are not seeking any technical advantage here," DeWald said. "We do not intend to refile these charges."
The decision by the DOJ to dismiss the charges against Martinez and Ruiz came a day after a federal judge in Chicago ordered the government to turn over to the defense additional text messages by the CBP agents involved in the incident.
During a Nov. 5 court hearing, CBP Agent Charles Exum, identified as the agent who shot Martinez, was questioned by Parente about text messages he sent to friends and family after the incident in which he appeared to boast about his shooting skills.
"I fired 5 rounds and she had 7 holes. Put that in your book, boys,” one of those messages said.
When pressed by Parente about the text messages during his testimony, Exum said, "I am a firearms instructor and I take pride in my shooting skills."
Parente then asked, "So you're bragging that you shot her five times and gets seven holes, five shots? Are you literally bragging about this?"
Exum responded, "I'm just saying five shots, seven holes."
Federal prosecutors initially claimed that Exum fired rounds at Martinez in self-defense, saying that Martinez drove toward him when he exited his vehicle after the collision.
During an Oct. 6 hearing, Parente claimed in court that he viewed a body-camera video from one of the agents involved in the incident that he said appeared to show the federal vehicle swerve into Martinez's car.
"When I watched the video after this agent says, 'Do something, b----,' I see the driver of this vehicle turn the wheel to the left. Which would be consistent with him running into Ms. Martinez’s vehicle, okay," Parente said. “And then seconds later, he jumps out and just starts shooting."
Parente also said Martinez is licensed to carry a concealed weapon and that the gun federal officials claimed she had during the confrontation with CBP agents was never removed from her purse.
In response to an ABC News request for comment about the motion to dismiss and Exum's text messages, DHS Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin reiterated the agency's previous statements, again calling Martinez and Ruiz "domestic terrorists." McLaughlin did not address Exum's text messages and referred ABC News to the Justice Department for information about the charges against Martinez and Ruiz.
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lets not let facts get in the way of an argument.