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LOL...........okay.
My fault.........I should have said ..."Guys........." I really wasn't just questioning you.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Oh. Well, Damnit Vers, I'm dumb. You gotta spell chit out for me!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All Pro
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Frye started this year, It means nothing..
Quinn will smoke Anderson in Camp, and Anderson will be a whiner about the whole ordeal..
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Well........I could see how that would be misinterpreted as soon as I posted it.
So, in the context that it isn't a big deal.........I will playthe "face of the Browns" game.
Like you, I live out of state. To tell you the truth, most everyone I talk to doesn't know jack about the Browns. They know K2, but I am in the southeast now.
What I hear most about Cleveland is how cold it is and how much it snows. It's like an alien world to them. The other thing is that people know about the Dawg Pound. Most don't know much about RAC and no one talks about Savage.
To them..........they know Cleveland's weather and its fans.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
Quinn will smoke Anderson in Camp, and Anderson will be a whiner about the whole ordeal..
Another "fact" that won't be questioned. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Multiple Choice. Nobody questioned it because:
A. We know it's BS
B. It's obvious it's BS
C. It was posted 10 minutes ago.....give us a chance.
D. Why would we question it. We know you will
E. All of the above.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Which part DA whining or BQ smoking???....lol. Got to love these kind of debates where opinion is stated as fact...hehehehe
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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E. All of the above!
I win!! YES!!!
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You're disqualified......you live in Michigan....... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
Quote:
Quinn will smoke Anderson in Camp, and Anderson will be a whiner about the whole ordeal..
Another "fact" that won't be questioned.
Well if it came from someone else I would have. Yes I have agreed with you about the DA tone and was trying to fight the battle when you were gone.
Diam asked me about some of my comments regarding the amount of posters saying silly stuff like what you quoted. To be honest I am noticing a change in the conversation about DA. I think a lot has to do with you ,ddubia and that guy from Hawai'i (Helddawg??)
Also people like my buddy Toad are chiming in more. His opinion is different then mine but I think he is level headed enough to actually debate with.
Just some personal observations of mine. Kinda like my observation that I am a God, you are a crusty old man, Diam in an idiot and Toad is, well I can't type that on a family board. 
#gmstrong
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Only because of school 
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Well........I did say................"won't," not "wasn't."
But, I like your poll. Kinda funny. Although A and B would be ripped to high heaven if it were someone defending DA.
PDawg........you are a god. *L*
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Too bad being level-headed doesn't give me the gift of insight, hehe. And this, a family board? Maybe the Adams or the Munsters......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Ummm, which guy owns 3 Super Bowl rings
Not sure...But RAC has 5 ...2 with the Giants...and 3 with the Pats.....
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Quote:
Too bad being level-headed doesn't give me the gift of insight...
But it does give you the gift of eventually realizing that I am right and you are wrong.
...and that's the greatest gift of all.
#gmstrong
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Now I know why everybody says damn you
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
D. Why would we question it. We know you will
Yeah Vers, come on. Give us some credit. Some things are just not even worth responding to. We all know that was ridiculous. Does it need to be blasted all over the thread by each of us? Nobody really responds to much of what I write, unless I'm wrong about something (RAC's rings). So when that happens I just assume either A) I made way too much sense and no one can argue with it or B) it was just completely ridiculous and everyone decided to ignore me.
Like the post you quoted, I'll go with the latter.
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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Quote:
Which part DA whining or BQ smoking???....lol. Got to love these kind of debates where opinion is stated as fact...hehehehe
That isn't the problem with the poster.
Here is a tip.....when you read stuff on here, understand the overwhelming majority....like 99% of the stuff written is op-ed.
What you just read is the other 1%.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Now I know why everybody says damn you
Just trying to use a little humor to calm things down. It never works but I keep trying anyway. 
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Quinn will smoke Anderson in Camp, and Anderson will be a whiner about the whole ordeal..
Another "fact" that won't be questioned.
But I'm sure there will be those who question it AFTER it becomes "FACT".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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It's about as close to a fact as it can be.
There won't be much of a QB "competition" in camp.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Just clicking...the other thread has been locked and I haven't been able to get to a couple of things on that thread. One directly referred to my observations by Dawg in Dayton regarding DA at the only game I've been able to get to.
Yes, it totally shocked me. And I can now see what many of the coaches/including Savage saw in Training camp and understood the entire Competition thing. I'm talking throws were in the BEST EVER CATEGORY!
I do understand your question also - Can that skill be harnessed? Cause if so he could become an all time great and I BS you not.
And yet I've written him off...not as a dump off but written him off as 2nd banana on this team and possibly our future Backup not Franshise QB.
The key is the footwork. Yes he is working hard at it. I see a big key being his Big Feet. He can't reset quick enough when forced to move laterally. He can't reset quick enough when forced out of the pocket on an improvisional play. However I did see him work on and improve over the season on that Bootleg pass - he was able to set his feet cause he practiced it over n over. But totally lost on improvising movement.
I see a total ineptitude on accuracy for passes in the 1-10 yard range...HORRIBLE at 50%.
If he was a teenager could I fix him? I would say yes...I am conceited in that way. I even have some unorthodox solutions for his current problems - but they are too off the wall and I am not there as a coach...lol 
But I don't see much improvement in the horizon...what he can improve on.
Decision making, Touch passes on Bombs and Corner Fade routes.
But I'll tell you this...if we do tender DA and he goes out there on the Market and works out for some interested teams. He is going to WOW them in his workout 
Next item up was a Question Posed by Vers...
"And this crap about taking the deep pass away is just that.......crap. If teams scheme to take away the deep pass, then they are opening up the running game. May I ask if our running game improved in the second half of the season when DA's numbers went down?"
Well Vers...its not crap.
Running Game:
First 8 games
Lewis 480 yards - 45% of that yardage all came in one game. 64yds was his 2nd best game.
Team 838 yards (added only Cribbs, Vickers, Wright n Harrison - not included are QB runs) 27% of the team total came in one game.
Last 8 games
Lewis 824 yards - 6 out of the 8 game rushed for over 90 yards. 72% increase from the first half!
Team 991 yards - glaringly lower yds per carry from Cribbs as the jig was up. Thats still an 18% increase and we didn't have a ONE GAME total to distort the stats.
So to answer your question...yes - we did notice a difference in our running game not only statistically but in just a shift in control of the game. We weren't able to control the game with the run as we did in the 2nd half...actually with that much control in the running game we need a much more accurate Passer than what DA provides.
Visually we most definitely saw DA try to hit the underneath routes in the 2nd half...they were there - he was a horrific 50% on those highly connectable short passes.
Statistically and visually we most definitely saw a more vital running game as 7 in the box in the first half had the 8th creeping up close now we had that 8th man playing deeper as well as the rest of the secondary.
The facts are right there staring you in the face.
Another one that has convinced me that I would much rather prefer to see if we got Greatness in BQ as I'm convinced was got OK at best with DA.
The 2nd half of the season his QB rating was 73ish - it was the easiest part of our season Our two toughest Defenses were the Steelers and the Ravens and they both were reeling a bit when we faced them. Our OL picked up many blitzes that were thrown at DA - we should have had our QB tear up those teams...instead he became oh so mediocre.
If he had those results the 1st half - instead of coming on the scene with a 90+ rating before he was easily game planned against. There wouldn't even be a discussion going on. BQ would have gotten the nod at the bye.
Improve? Thats a big question with DA - well I saw him digress not improve the 2nd half of the season. I saw him have performances worse than the much maligned Tim Couch and that is with a Running Game, OL and Offensive Weapons galore!
Excited? Sorry no...nor impressed as a possible Franchise QB.
If he was signed till 2010...I'm happy he's on the team and yes, should come into Training Camp as the #1...how we enter the season could be another thing.
But he's not signed...we also don't have a 1st round pick in this draft...why? does not matter fact is we don't. Can he get us into it? We'll see.
Worst Case scenario...We tender him...nobody offers him a contract for him to sign...he plays for us one more season - We lose him in 09 as a UFA!
I'd rather give BQ his start cause right now BQ will be a great QB or a Bust. I see DA as being an OK QB. I'll take the chance at Great rather than commit to OK. But I can see why Savage would want DA here at least one more year cause I think we most definitely will find out if BQ is Great or Bust this upcoming season and its always nice to have OK to fall back on.
JMHO
Last edited by eotab; 01/12/08 02:36 PM.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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But I'm sure there will be those who question it AFTER it becomes "FACT".
And just what has DA ever said that would lead you to believe that it is a "FACT" that he is going to whine if BQ is named the starter?
Gawd........I love Brady's Brats. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Well, I don't think it was anything he ever said but the look on his face when Quinn was in against San Fran and he put his helmet back on, you could tell he was chomping at the bit to get back in but they let Quinn finish off the drive. He didn't exactly look happy to be standing on the sideline. But whatever. And to be fair Vers, not everyone who finds faults with DA is one of "Brady's Brats". C'mon man. Frankly, and I've said this since day one, I don't give a rat's ass who the QB of this team is, as long as they can win us games. You won't see any loyalty from me.
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^^^ Another mindreader.
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No Offense K12,, but I don't think we can possibly know what was going through DAs mind at that moment..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Eotab that was actually me that made that post. It was just one of those things that kind of sticks in your mind, you kick it around and around, and you wonder what if?? I think I'll re post it here because I do think it brings a different elimate to the debate. Sorry K12 for not getting your prior permission. Quote:
Yes, it totally shocked me. And I can now see what many of the coaches/including Savage saw in Training camp and understood the entire Competition thing. I'm talking throws were in the BEST EVER CATEGORY!
Do you suppose that the Browns my have second thoughts on DA, because they realize that "IF" they could somehow find a way to unlock his potiential they would have a great QB. Thats the thing that struck me most I guess. I thought that he just couldn't do or make certain throws but there it was, your statement not mine, "unbelievable", "Best Ever".
I wrote this in the other post as well. Being a golfer I understand this part pretty well. You have seen as have I, pro's that when practicing make every 3 foot putt they face but when playing a round they can't make a 3 footer to save their asses. They and you know they can do it, but there it is they can't do it when the chips are down, or when they really need too.
I don't think there is anybody that doesn't think that DA shouldn't be able to make a dump off pass, and have a pretty high completion percentage. But what is it that keeps him from being able to do it, during games? Let me add it's his lack of ability in this area that I think causes 2 problems, if you will.
#1- I think it causes him to have a lower completion percentage overall.
#2- I think it causes him to engage in riskey throws because he is more comfortable making longer throws, vs the dump off.
I can't help but think with some work on the part of the coaching staff in conjunction with DA, perhaps they couldn't at least get him to be more confident with these throws, and lower his INT.s in the process..And make defense be more honest as well.
Quote:
I do understand your question also - Can that skill be harnessed? Cause if so he could become an all time great and I BS you not.
Saying he could be an "all time great" is a pretty bold statement, and having said that. Why not give DA just a bit more time to see if he can begin to bring his full potiental to the field?? Lets face it we didn't even see a slice of what he can do, prior to the CF trade. Maybe it just isn't ment to be for DA, no coaching will ever be able to get him to a comfort level where he is what he has the potential to be??
I also understand that the short answer is Brady Quinn.
Quote:
If he was a teenager could I fix him? I would say yes...I am conceited in that way. I even have some unorthodox solutions for his current problems - but they are too off the wall and I am not there as a coach...lol
You may indeed be a good coach EO, I don't know, but my bet is the Browns have better. LOL
Quote:
But I don't see much improvement in the horizon...what he can improve on.
Decision making, Touch passes on Bombs and Corner Fade routes.
If I were the man in charge of DA, I would leen away from trying to improve on any of the areas you mention Eo, I would leen towards getting DA more comfortable and confident in throwing the short 10 or less yard passes. I think, could be wrong here, that if he becomes more confident in this area, it will raise his Completion percentage, and will lead to him making better decisions. IMHO the reason that DA try's to force the ball at times is because he is just more comfortable with the throw itself, and once he is able to be more consistant in the underneath area it will lend itself to him not forcing the ball.
At the end of the day EO, I found your comments interesting and while most folks just dismissed the remarks you made ( and continue to do so), I thought they really gave a key hole view of the reasons why the Browns were so high on DA after the OTA's. They saw what you saw, and I am certain they wanted DA to win out the competition, but he has a big big problem, he doesn't mentally trust himself to do what he and his coaches know he can do.
Whomever can unlock that door will have one hell of a QB.
Just food for thought..
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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My original post ::
1st this post is a general post, and not really aimed at or towards anyone particular.
I base this post on a Eotab what I saw thread, and the observations he made during the pre-game warm ups prior to the Jets game.
EO if I miss quote please correct me OK?
EO said that during warm ups he was shocked at how accurate DA was, I think his words were he threw every ball on target, and seemed to be really concentrating on his footwork.
Then they went to 7 on 7 drills and he wasn’t nearly as accurate then to 11 on 11 drills and his accuracy dropped further.
I found EO’s comments kind of eye opening because many claim that DA is just plain old inaccurate, and this observation seemed to fly in the face of that theory. Yes if you’re a great practice player, and can’t carry over your practice accuracy to the game then your just not going to cut it in the NFL. But the fact that he could make the throws accurately in practice does show that he is capable, but that he hasn’t been able to bring that accuracy to the football field on game day.
Why can’t he, and is that correctable, would be more the line I would take, if what EO saw is true. Sense EO is a BQ and cut DA loss guy. I thought his comments were pretty profound. Nobody made much comment about those remarks, but there they were.
I offer these thoughts or comments up for all to consider once again, more because nobody said anything about them at the time, and because I think that they are comments that give us all a glimpse into what the Browns coaching staff sees on a regular base. Perhaps it’s the reason, that the Browns have second thoughts about letting DA go, they know that he is capable, but hasn’t been able to translate his demonstrated accuracy from the practice field to game day, all the time. He hasn’t been able to get to that happy place during games, and perhaps it’s just a matter of time and patients on the parts of the coaching staff before he does. Maybe he can never get to that happy place, it’s just not in him. Perhaps it explains some of the reasons why DA seemed in most instances to come out of the gate slowly?
To a point DA has shown that at times he is very accurate during games The seem route he threw to KW2 in the Rams game was one of the best passes I have seen DA throw, it was on target, in stride, and on time.
At the end of the day I thought that I would put this out there for all too at least consider. I just thought (maybe wrongly) that what EO said was worth revisiting. Make what you want of it, I am certain you all will.
Again EO, correct anything you think I may have missed or left out, or didn’t convey correctly. If I could of I would have copied it, and posted it exactly as you wrote it. Remember I am doing this from memory so forgive me if I am off a bit. I believe I captured the heart of this portion of your what I saw thread.
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Quote:
Well, I don't think it was anything he ever said but the look on his face when Quinn was in against San Fran and he put his helmet back on, you could tell he was chomping at the bit to get back in but they let Quinn finish off the drive. He didn't exactly look happy to be standing on the sideline.
Later in your post, you say something about being fair......yet you post this? Why wouldn't a competitive person want to reenter a game in which he started? You told me you are a football coach. Would you want your starting QB not to want to reenter a game in which he left due to injury? Come on, man.
And him wanting to reenter the game doesn't make it a "FACT" that he whine if he is beaten out in training camp. I never heard him whine last year when Frye started. I've never heard him complain about anything. So, "to be fair," how is it a "FACT" that he will whine?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Vers...Whatcha make of this???
From Savage on Sirius the other day...
*DEREK ANDERSON: The club's first objective is to keep him off the open market, and show that they are committed to him being the starter "going into next year".
Feels that DA has a big upside and will only get better.
Savage also made sure people understood that a long-term deal to keep DA off the market doesn't necessarily mean a six- or seven-year deal, that it could be two or three years.
WHY would he indicate "Starter"...Then turn and say 2 or 3 year deal???
I have an idea...lol...Less Cap Hit from accelerated $ if we find a trade partner...
Go Browns!!!
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I'm not a coach and I don't claim to understand what goes on inside coaches' "brains" (re: my signature) but I have to believe that DA's short pass inaccuracy problem CAN be fixed. It has to be harder to make all the throws down field, right? And with the longer throws either you "have it" or you don't. Acquiring the "touch" for the short passes can probably be acquired during the off-season. What happens when and if he does acquire a short passing "touch"?
I keep harping on Boomer Esiason's comment that " a QB makes the most progress between his first and second year". It's during that 2nd season that it becomes evident if he has what it takes to be successful. That proved true for Charlie Frye. It will become clear next season just how good or bad DA really is. But, there is a problem and the problem's name is Brady Quinn.
Will the FO err on the side of caution and keep both DA and BQ or roll the dice and make a trade? My prediction is that Phil will not trade DA ,or BQ for that matter, unless he has made some FA signings. Those FA signings include some of our own players as well as a few new defensive players. If DA is traded BQ's learning curve will not be as steep if he is surrounded with an OL, offensive weapons and a defense that will make up for dumb mistakes. Having a defense this past season would have also made up for some of DA's dumb mistakes too. What if during the last Bungles game the defense had allowed only FGs instead of TDs? IMO the QB conundrum is the least of our worries.
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The bonus is the only thing that accelerates...doesn't matter if it is a 2 year or 7 year deal. One way or the other we will be on the hook for that.
I could see us work to get a deal with a really big 1st year salary...or some crazy 1st year workout bonus....something as guaranteed as non-guranteed can be.
Any way we do it, we probably have to look at the Quinn deal to get an idea what DA's proposed deal will look like.
I doubt DA will sign for less than the Quinn deal. He isn't going to be in a position where might be making less money than his back-up....assuming he wins if it gets to that.
If we don't offer something better, DA won't sign with us and look at the open market.
The type of money we offer will tell us how serious we really are about the guy and possibly tip us on where we think Quinn might be at this point.
A lesser length might make it look like a smaller deal, but the guarantees and the starter portion will have to at least match up, if not beat what Quinn could earn if he was the starter.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'll take a minute from my crusade and just tell you that I really don't know what to think. It could mean a few things:
---they liked what they saw of DA last year to think he can lead the team a few more years. This would be more relevant if BQ didn't impress them much in practices.
---it could mean they are trying to inflate his value.
---they possibly could be trying to boost his ego in the case they don't trade him.
---it might even mean they aren't sure which QB they are going with and want an open competition next year. The loser provides insurance and/or could be traded down the road.
I just hope they make the right decision. The decision that is best for the team, as opposed to making the media and paying public happy. Junior worries me in that regard. I want him outta the picture. I don't know who would be the better QB for the Browns next year. I think this thing needs to play out and I think the decision should be made by the coaches, rather than the fans and media.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
The bonus is the only thing that accelerates...doesn't matter if it is a 2 year or 7 year deal. One way or the other we will be on the hook for that.
Yes it does matter, as a signing bonus on a 7 year deal would be a much larger hit than a sb on a 2 or 3 year deal......and I'm quite confident that was his exact point.
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Back to my crusade: Quote:
*DEREK ANDERSON: The club's first objective is to keep him off the open market, and show that they are committed to him being the starter "going into next year".
Feels that DA has a big upside and will only get better.
Now, I don't want to hear that Savage has never given DA an endorsement. And I want you to remember that this part about his upside. Too many experts around here are saying he can't improve. Many of those same people think Savage is a god.
So, which is it? DA can't improve or Savage can't evaluate talent? *L*
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
The bonus is the only thing that accelerates...doesn't matter if it is a 2 year or 7 year deal. One way or the other we will be on the hook for that.
Yes it does matter, as a signing bonus on a 7 year deal would be a much larger hit than a sb on a 2 or 3 year deal......and I'm quite confident that was his exact point.
Thank You...Thank You...Thank You...
Damn Peen... 
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Back to my crusade:
Quote:
*DEREK ANDERSON: The club's first objective is to keep him off the open market, and show that they are committed to him being the starter "going into next year".
Feels that DA has a big upside and will only get better.
Now, I don't want to hear that Savage has never given DA an endorsement. And I want you to remember that this part about his upside. Too many experts around here are saying he can't improve. Many of those same people think Savage is a god.
So, which is it? DA can't improve or Savage can't evaluate talent? *L*
He CAN & WILL improve...Only natural progression...
What he WON'T improve ENUFF is this Accuracy Issue he has...He'll NEVER be a 60% QB...
Either u can hit guys in stride CONSISTENTLY or u can't...He can't...THAT will keep him at 50% forever...
And 50% ain't gonna cut it when we're on a RUN...As I said all off season...We're on a 2 year plan...Year 1 went SUPERBLY...2008 starts the run...We're 1 year ahead of the 5 year plan...
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Legend
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I understand that.
I guess I misunderstood his comment.
I do understand that a shorter deal would allow us to reduce the potential hit if we traded him somewhere down the road.
A 3 year deal allows us to burn the bonus in thirds rather than fifths if it was a five year deal.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You do understand what "big upside" means, don't you?
And once again..........I just don't see the terrible accuracy problems that you guys do.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I think this belongs here. It is from Grossi's interview w/RAC, published on January 13th. Shep posted the complete article [a very informative article] on the "RAC EM" thread.
The question is from Grossi. The reply from RAC.
How do you plan on handling it in training camp next year?
It's a totally different situation. Derek won 10 games and Derek is the starter. He will be the starter in training camp. And we will continue to prepare Brady to be ready to play. The thing about training camp and preseason, we can give [Quinn] more reps than we can during the regular season once we start game-planning. So he's got to try to take advantage of those reps as he can. He is still one play away. To be totally honest with you, how often does a quarterback stay on his feet through 16 games? Not many times does that happen. I'm not trying to jinx us, but quarterbacks take a beating in this league. And generally you've got to have two of them that you feel good about and know when one goes down, you can put the other one in and have a chance.
What's unique is both these guys are in the same age bracket and both have their best football ahead of them. There aren't many quarterback rosters like that.
It is a unique circumstance. Because in today's game that doesn't happen very often. I don't know how long it will happen here or we can keep it like that. But I think at least for another year, we should be able to keep it that way. And let's say something happens and the backup has to play. Then he goes in and plays. Then down the road we'll have a decision to make. Just like San Diego had to make a decision with their quarterback situation. And when we get to that bridge, get ready to cross it, then we'll make the decision on what's best for the Browns at that time.
Do you all think it is still such a slam dunk? *L*
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage says D.A starting QB in 08-
Crennel to extend
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