DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Gameday vs Tennessee Post game thread…?

I can’t remember a time when there was as much apathy among the fanbase. Even during the 1-31 seasons there was at least a lot of hate. Now there’s just… crickets

I didn’t see the game so I wanted to get y’all’s take.

Seems like Sanders had a good game.

Miles notched another sack.

And we lost to the worst team in football. Not sure we aren’t tanking (I did say a loss might tip a hat to that) but it will complicate things if Sanders continues to play well down the stretch. I don’t think he will, but I’m open to surprises.

Hard to care about this team. Any positive takeaways?

Sanders was an acceptable QB and his play has improved.

Fannin and the other rookies played well..

Truth is we should be playing for draft position.

SS showed more improvement, even with the horrid OL play. Our RBs have been met in the backfield all year. If we keeps making small improvements we might not have to draft a QB high.


Another positive: our kicker Andre feels like he’s going to be long-term reliable.

Fannin played great today. What a steal we got with him.

We keep kicking ourselves in our own package. The Sampson fumble, the blocked punt, the dumbass decisions by our coach. The two-point try at the end, which would not have been necessary if we kicked the PA after the SS run TD .

Smooth work. I hate firing coaches but I could see it happening as early as tomorrow.

Final positive: only four games left!!!!

Stars of the game Shedeur Sanders and Harold Fannon.

Harold Fannon with 100+ yards receiving and a TD. He was simply awesome today.

Shedeur Sanders with 300+ yards passing with 3 TD's + a rushing TD. He threw a terrible pick and lost his discipline on that play. That kind of pick late in the 3rd quarter with a 3-point lead is unacceptable and he MUST learn from that play. But I do not want to nitpick on him for that bad play because he had to produce due to the run game being nonexistent averaged 2 yards a carrier and Sanders had to throw it and he did so with the Oline down 3 starters from last week starting lineup.

The defense had their worst game of the year. The run defense was simply horrible. Gave me 2022 flashbacks letting Tony Pollard run for 150+.

The special teams again were anything but special. They seem to fail every week in some form. Unacceptable.

The going for 2 down 8 after the touchdown with 5 minutes to play was a horrible call and is the main reason the game did not go to overtime. That is on Stefanski.

Sanders was better than just good. How many rookies have games with 3 TD passes, one running TD and 360 yards. Yeah it as aga8nst a crappy team, but then it was also with a terrible OL and subpar receivers. He showed a LOT.

I’m not far from the Ski opt-out. He was handcuffed by a swing and a miss but that’s the way she goes. Two straight three-win seasons gets a lot of coaches fired.

- Shedeur showed marked improvement. Great touch on the pass for a TD to Njoku.

- Fanin Jr. continues to impress and set the Browns rookie TE record.

- Judkins plays his ass off.

- ST continues to operate at a high school JV team level. It's pathetic.

- Tony Pollard looked like CJ2K out there.

- The defense played like they wanted to be anywhere be on the field. Seems like the mission is to get Myles the record and the erst of the mentality was 1, 2, 3....Cancun, to quote Shaq.

- The attempted two-point conversion trickery was par for the course. Shedeur got the the team in the end zone. Let your QB lead and finish it out. Dumb.

- Losing in front of the home crowd to a one win team that fired their coach mid-season should be embarrassing to those in Berea if they have any sense of pride.

- The 3-10 Browns have "Alpha Dawg" uniforms. Hysterical.

- Another week, another loss. This is Cleveland Browns football. Yawn.

Me too but they should start with the ST coach. This is at least game#3 they cost us a game.

random thoughts...

I actually wanted to lose this game, I feel draft position is more important than wins this season. Saints and Jets need a QB, so we need to somehow get in front of them WITHOUT trading both our #1s to do so.

I only want 2 things right now, Myles to get the sack record, and to beat the steelers later on, otherwise just lose, baby.

The D sold out today to get Myles the record, but sacrificed the run and got owned by tony freaking pollard SMH

My tinfoil hat theory is that Haslam told KS before the game to ensure a loss but any mean necessary, not knowing that SS was going to ball out today.

I feel pretty similar. My tin foil hat theory (before the game) was that they’ll give SS every chance to win these coming games on his own back but will pull support subtly everywhere else. The D gets a little softer, the running game doesn’t pull as well, etc etc. If he can prove he belongs thru sheer force, maybe that changes things in April but anything short of him balling out for the next 4 games means they go with plan A. Sounds like he actually did quite well today. I think next week and beyond will be much better gauge

My heart goes out to these young kids playing their asses off for this ship show. Fannin, Judkins and Schwesinger deserve much better.

So Haslam told Stefanksi to lose intentionally just like the scandal with the Dolphins where owner, Stephen Ross, told HC, Brian Flores, to lose in order to prioritize their draft position, where ultimately the NFL penalty for the Dolphins was forfeiture of their first round pick? Ross was also fined $1.5M and suspended for ~6 games, could not attend games or NFL league meetings during that time.

Haslam is a bumbling idiot that has no idea how to put a successful product on the field, but he's not so incredibly stupid to pull the same stunt Stephen Ross did a few years ago. If so, kiss those first round picks good-bye!

It's not a big conspiracy. The Browns are just a very poorly run team.

Absolutely.

Sanders is showing great progress. He is making a REAL effort to NOT run backwards. I am really happy to see that because it means he is coachable. You can tell the coaches are working hard with him to fix it. He is still a bit slow deciding to throw the ball but he has greatly improved this game. I concede that you have to take it with a grain of salt when you view who he did it against but good QBs gain confidence from tearing it up on the bad teams. They gain trust with receivers as they see those receiver FIGHT for the ball when they throw it to them. You can see he LOVES Fannin that is for SURE! I'm just excited to see legit progress.

Now if he can do it against some better teams ... then we got something. I think it also shows that if we improve the offensive line and WR core that Sanders can grow into a decent QB and that we should get him those tools if possible.

If we can grab Mendoza without trading up though ... I don't mind it. Mendoza impressed me against Ohio State. Unless we are number one in the draft though I don't think we can get him. The cost to draft him would be too darn high.

Our best hope is if Sanders keeps improving and shows that we don't need to take a QB in round one. I like Sanders and I am rooting for him to keep improving.

"My heart goes out to these young kids playing their asses off for this ship show. Fannin, Judkins and Schwesinger deserve much better." - Agreed.

"It's not a big conspiracy. The Browns are just a very poorly run team." - Agreed.


Kudos to Sanders who has impressed me with the small improvements he has made. He has stepped up in the pocket more. His release on some throws was quick to avoid pressure. 3 or 4 throws were very nice, tough throws. When the game was getting away from us - he tried to play hero ball a bit more, held the ball looking to m,ake a big play... but overall a much improved performance and night and day from pre-season.

As others have said - the performance from a handful of rookies, great. The rest was pretty much a poop-fest. None of it exemplified the Browns coaching and organizational ineptness more than the 2 point play call that was a "we're smarrter than the est of the NFL" trademark play, poorly executed at a time when your offense had played well and got you to the point of leveling the game. I also thought it was poetic that on a 4th down punt with the game on the line, TN jumped offsides and if the Browns hadn't decided to take a penalty for a delay of game to make the punt easier, it would have given the Browns a 1st down.

To Milk Man's point above about the team being poorly run - versus fans who believe Stefanski is a good head coach and merely bereft of talent because Berry/Haslam traded 3 1st rounders for Watson who turned out to be a Bum.... Question:

Does the team look like a disciplined, well managed and coached team whose only issue is a lack of talent in too many key areas? Or does the team look like a team lacking talent in enough depth - but is also badly coached and managed with poor discipline? To me that answer is glaringly obvious and is something we've seen over the last 6 years materialize regularly... including the complete lack of accountability seemingly anywhere from players to coaches.

I think Sanders had an up and down game. He started great, had a slow middle game and finished strong.

His completion % was so so, but the positive is he had a lot of throw aways, which shows progress. He took a big step forward. He is the only thing the team needs to measure the rest of the way. We need to decide if he is a guy we want to move forward with for the next few seasons or not.

If he continues to take steps, the answer might be yes. That would be ideal. If not and we draft a 1st round QB, then we will need to get rid of Sanders. The frenzy will intensify. We don't need a QB controversy.

As the old saying goes...if you have more than 1 QB, you don't have any QBs.

Suffering from Cleveland Browns Fan Syndrome as I do....

My fear is -

Sanders will show us enough to think he's the guy... we won't draft the QB that's available (who will become a FQB elsewhere) and Sanders will have a ceiling that's "OKAY" but never the difference maker. Maybe ala Crab Legs - Jameis Winston. He may even tank in his sophmore season having been annointed the starter.

Sanders will show us enough to think he might be good enough - but there is whoesale FO change and the new regime will want their guy no matter what.

Sanders will show us enough but the FO will still draft a QB - maybe even trading up to get their guy. Who will not end up being a FQB.

Sanders will not show us enough - and it's used as an excuse to keep the FO who then all get fired at the end of next year because the team continues to be badly coached, ill disciplined and the weak a$$ "everyone must do better" / "I must do better" mantra continues without any actual signs of anyone doing better.

Ey ey ey. . . . . losing to the worst team in the NFL at home certainly brings out the negative. Wouldn't it be great to falsely believe the team is losing on purpose instead of simply being crap?

Losing to a one win team sucks but, if we're being honest with ourselves, yesterday's game was the best outcome we could have hoped for:
(1) Sanders has improved each week and had a really nice game yesterday.
(2) Browns' draft position gets better

- The defense didn't come to play yesterday and couldn't care less about tackling. That was one of the laziest performances I saw this season out of that D.
- Rookies continue to impress
- ST continues to embarrass
- I didn't have any issue going for two on each touchdown when you are playing to win and you have limited time. Both plays were executed poorly by the players. The brain fart from Judkins was inexcusable.

Hopefully, Sanders continues to improve while playing against better teams that have playoff implications. He is still making some bad decisions out there but they seem to decrease as he plays more.

If the last couple decades have taught us anything, it's that we don't need to TRY to lose games.

If Sanders keeps showing steady progression, I hope that the draft aligns with us taking Oline and WR and other support positions well past the second round... and we pick up a falling QB later or sign a reclamation project (Pickett rd 2?).

I think if Indiana's QB Mendoza was on the board when the Browns draft, they could not turn down selecting him. Would I mortgage the farm to trade up to get Mendoza like both 1st round picks in 2026 and a 1st in 2027? No. I would try to find a trade down partner like last year and secure a 2nd 2027 1st round pick. Get another weapon at wide receiver and invest heavily in the Offensive line. Then see what Sanders can do in 2026 with a fully healthy Watson backing him up and if that fails the ammo is there to hopefully get a QB in 2027.

Option 1 - Draft Mendoza if there at Browns first pick. Trade Sanders. Then WR, and LT with the following picks in 1st and 2nd round. Then invest heavily in offensive line remainder of the draft.

Option 2 - Trade down for 2027 1st round pick and select top wide receiver offensive tackle when Browns are on the board. Then invest heavily in offensive line remainder of draft.

Option 3 - If no trade down partners is found draft top wide receiver and Offensive tackle in 2026 when the Browns are on the board. Then invest heavily in offensive line remainder of the draft.

I don't believe I suffer from CBFS.

I just think that as long as Sanders is the starter, it will be all quiet on the western front. As soon as he isn't all hell will break loose. Everything from claims of racism to the coach not liking the guy to this, that and the other.

The family, fans and some media members are a toxic mix if things aren't going the way they want.

We've seen it the last 5 months with all sorts of claims. It's out there for anybody to see.

If Sanders is our guy, great, but if we draft a QB top 4 or whatever, and especially if we have to use an extra high pick to get whoever we choose to select, then he has to be our guy from the start. We will have to remove Sanders one way or another before camp.

So back to CBFS, maybe I do because I don't think the team is smart enough to do that.

That would be the best route for a sanely run organization. I'm not putting money on the Browns doing that. While I REALLY want them to draft Mendoza, I can't see compounding the Hell that is the Watson years by throwing away yet another first round pick to trade up for him.

As for yesterday. It was a three win team losing to a one win team.

I agree here. If the Browns were to draft a QB in the first round with the expectation to start, you simply have to move on from Sanders. The noise that would accompany him as a backup would be destructive.

There is no doubt Sanders took a big step forward. On OL we pretty much had the back ups to the back ups on the field. So the possibility of running the ball was nearly impossible.

The film that the Titans had on Sanders is pretty is pretty much what we had all seen to that point. Holding the ball, being hesitant to release the ball and moving backwards in the pocket when pressured. A sure sign that the way to beat him is to pressure him.

Only that's not what we saw. We saw him have more poise. We saw him look for the short targets when pressured and we saw him deliver the ball. He didn't look lost and running around like a chicken with its head cut off. In perspective I have to keep in mind who their opponent was but in the end it still doesn't change the progress I saw in Sanders. How things will go moving forward is still a big ?.

This defense gave up 31 points to the worst team in the NFL. People can nitpick about the 2 point conversion call all they like. There is no question about the fact that the reason they lost this game is because the defense gave up 31 points. The fact this offense could put up 29 points against any NFL team with having back ups to the back ups all along the OL is a miracle in itself.

You know something I find funny? (funny odd not funny ha ha) Most were saying that Stefanski should give up the play calling duties because he was terrible at it. And he actually did. He turned that over to Offensive Coordinator Tommy Rees starting Week 10. And now we keep hearing what a terrible play caller Stefanski is when he isn't even the one calling the plays.

Let me guess. That's his fault too?

j/c...

Another Sunday Carnival of Follies! There isn't a gameday that I don't walk away from the Tube a couple times literally LMAO. Seriously. Yesterday I found myself constantly saying out loud "tackle football" while wondering if my team woke up in a two-hand-touch league. Obscene.

* Sanders looked much better and threw a few A+ passes. I love how he controls his velocity and his propensity to drop absolute dimes. On the flip side, he still looks like Chicken Little at times. I think the kid is working hard and is very coachable. I still don't think he's the answer when we're talking about fQB and leading a team to a 'chip. That's just my eye test, but it's usually spot-on with QBs (I've watched soooo many!!). So, from that POV, we're not only wasting time but creating a problem that can only be cured by trading him if we draft a QB. Slide-Rule Berry will flip that into a third-round pick though.

* I've never in my life seen special teams this bad. 100 miles past the point of even needing to elaborate.

* Myles had two huge "cover" stories this last week. One long-form at ESPN and one in the NYT. The Titans used his over-pursuit at history to their advantage -- and that wasn't the first time we've seen that. Tough competition down the stretch and we'll see more of the same -- along with Myles getting frustrated and questions about whether he even gives a crap about his defense turning in solid performances. This record will not be a walk in the park without Maliek Collins. He was the cornerstone of the best DT room Garrett has ever seen. Should be interesting.


* GOING FOR TWO is the right thing to do down by 14. Not only that, but all the cool kids do it. Jim and John do it nearly every time. It improves your chances at winning by about 12%, and improves your chance of winning in regulation by about 25%. Also, just to show how much we suck -- the chances of missing 1 extra point is actually 38% higher than failing the two-point conversion twice. (But, but, but... we're the Browns!)

Now, I love analytics and I love fun with numbers but I think this math needs to always align with game flow, among other factors. I was marginally on the go-for-two train after that TD, mainly because we always seem (Stefanski era) pretty adept at converting those opportunities. Yesterday, I just hated the downside of failing after the rook played a solid game. Just playing things out by the book would have been entirely acceptable. Lastly, I think NFL FOs are downright drunk on the numbers games. I've argued many times that there are two sides to every coin -- just because the odds of flipping "heads" 10 times in a row is ridiculously miniscule, that doesn't make the odds of "tails" any better for flip #11, it's always a 50/50 proposition.


So... hard sell to say Stefanski is involved in some covert tanking scheme. If that were going on behind the scenes, he would have already been fired this morning as he took the best route to a win yesterday.

But then also... in what world do you take your QB out of the game when he's a rookie, enjoying his best outing, and staring down his first opportunity to WIN. A. GAME. ??? I can't believe some of the stuff I watch on that field.


I really, really need to buy the T-Shirt:

I get the "coachable" angle and I do agree with you on that aspect. But at that point the question becomes "what is his ceiling"? In terms of having an answer to that question I don't have that answer. That's WAY above my pay grade.

But that's the big question this FO will have to figure out moving forward. I would venture a guess that will be the biggest factor in whether they draft a QB or not. And even at that he will have to perform well in these next four games before that question is even relevant.

So many questions with so little time to form the answers.

For me based on my limited ability to have the qualifications to answer any of these questions, it would be very hard for me to pass up the opportunity to draft a QB this high in the draft based on a hand full of games. But I'm open minded enough to change my tune on that depending on just how well he does moving forward.

In reality I'm glad it's not me in the position of having to make these decisions.

I already bought one, about two or three years ago!

P.S. Lots of good posts about Sanders. We shall see.

Regarding teh draft from a fans perspective, I wish these draft gurus/geniuses like Kiper, McShay et all, would rank these players, especially quarterbacks, compared to previous QBs in prior drafts.

Every year I hear them pump up this year's great QBs, future franchise QBs, and many times they list 5-7, which if true in 4 years the rest of the league would be set.

Tell me if Mendoza compares to Stafford or Burrow, or if it's Trubisky. I have no idea if they really know, or they are blowing sunshine up fans' skirts, so people read their constantly changing mock drafts. The thing that convinced me they had very little clue was when I saw them predicting Aller would be the 2nd overall QB taken this spring. His play against good times was lousy (48% completion rate).

Well, they had Trubisky rated ahead on Mahomes in the draft they came out so I would guess they don't want to bring light to some of their past evaluations.

I have that t-shirt.