DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Looking Back: Browns 3 Bears 31 Post game thoughts…?

Again, didn’t see the game. Would love to hear the take on how sanders played. Box score is dreadful but that can be misleading. Anything else ya got?

Hard to play football without an offensive line

Sanders looked good on the last drive with under 5 minutes in a blowout. He also threw two beautiful passes to Bond. Big, beautiful passes of 47 and 42 yards. That's where he shines, such a knack for accuracy and putting air under some passes that almost look slo-motion in the air.

Beyond that he was all but putrid to my eyes. Bad passes, head-scratchers and short dumps. Outside of Bond and the last drive, 8/23 for a whopping 42 yards and 3 INTs. Five sacks, three because he's running around like Chicken Little, one because the Bad News Browns don't know that someone standing a foot off the LOS shouldn't come in untouched.

He made some really nice throws. He definitely showed he can make some deep plays. He made some throws where he was forcing the ball into tight coverage and paid the price. He tried to run away from sacks and found out the hard way that he is too slow to. He started to see pressure where there wasn't any and went into panic mode a few times and this caused him to get sacked when he could have thrown away the ball. It wasn't as bad a collapse as we saw in that third preseason game but was definitely a step in the wrong direction.

One of the nice things I saw was even though he lost himself a few times he regained his composure. This game is going to leave a VERY bad taste in his mouth. I think it was a good learning experience for him though on the real size of NFL throwing windows. The Bears are the best team in the NFL when it comes to creating turnovers and it showed.

It was a very bad game for him and it was a game even worse for the rest of the team.

I think we had 4 penalties in the first 6 plays.

It was bad from opening kickoff, literally. A 52-yard return our ST allowed. One of the picks was not his fault, the other two most definitely were.

Other than a nine-yarder from SS, I don’t think we had a run play that went five yards. We haven’t been able to run the ball all year.
D didn’t look like a top 5, either. It was excruciating to watch, be glad you didn’t.

- Sloppy, unprepared and undisciplined football.

- The future QB is not on the roster.

- Run defense was subpar for a second week in row.

- Myles inches closer to the sack record.

- Bond beating the defense over the top and Shedeur connecting with him were the two offensive highlights. Otherwise, dreadful on offense.

- Fannin Jr. is Shedeur's security blanket.

I cannot believe there are still 3 more opportunities to go. An 18 game season seems like cruel and unusual punishment.

As Tom Hamilton would say, "they're just playing out the string."

It's wild how atrocious the run game has been. Back-to-back weeks Judkins has averaged less than 2 yards per carry. Had a long run today of 4 yards.

My biggest take away. Still no accountabilty and still poorly prepared. The coaches can't manufacture more talent on the roster - they can prepare them for a game and make it the product look less like a dark comedy. Incompetence was as big a factor as talent.

- The defense (outside of Myles because of his personal goal) has essentially given up on the season
- The OL is a disaster because of all the injuries.
- Shedeur was effected by the OL but seemed liked he reverted to his old ways. Holding the ball yesterday against a OL that allegedly had a 70% pass rush win rate yesterday was a problem.
- We saw an offense that was horrible prepared to play yesterday and was riddled with penalties early.
- I wish we had a healthy OL that we could judge Sanders from, but alas, that is not in the cards.

Just about as ugly as it gets... Chicagos offense was as good as advertised.

Our D wasn't as good as Advertised. Our offense missed the plane, we just picked up some guys on the streets to pay..... Kinda kidding.

Wasn't any fun to watch....

The Browns had only one first down in the entire first half.

Anyone going into yesterdays game thinking Sanders looked like the future starting QB for the Browns should be thinking again.

Passing: 18/35 (54.1%)
Passing yards: 177
Passing touchdowns: 0
Interceptions: 3
Passer rating: 30.3
Carries: 2
Rushing yards: 24
Rushing TDs: 0
Sacks: 5 (35 yards)

He looked pretty much the same in his fourth start as he did in his first start. With only three games left on the schedule it's hard for me to believe the window is large enough to go into the upcoming draft making the decision he will be the Browns starter going into next season.

In fairness, he did have a backup OL that played really badly, no run game, a receiver who fumbled a TD catch into an INT for the Bears, and he played in miserably cold conditions.

This is not to say that he didn't make a lot of mistakes ..... but I am starting to think that we should sign a veteran in the offseason, let him battle it out with Sanders, and build the team as we should have been doing instead of trading for Watson.

Both QB's played in the same weather conditions.

Caleb Williams had 242 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 0 interceptions on 17-of-28 passing, with a 112.5 passer rating.

So I'm not considering excuses due to the weather.

I certainly understand the circumstances under which he is playing. I would never expect perfection by any means. But you said it yourself. He made a lot of mistakes that were on himself and nobody else. In four starts he has had one good outing. The other three starts were net negatives by any stretch of the imagination. I have no idea how anyone could take that body of evidence to suggest we should neglect drafting a QB next year. No idea.

When we got the delay of game on the first play of the drive, I started planning out what I was going to do for the rest of the day.

I was excited-ish to see Wypler, Zinter (who ended up being ruled out with injury) Sanders and the rest of the rookies, but with the way the team came out I didn't feel like what I was seeing was going to give actual insight on how the guys (especially Sanders) project past this year. The whole team was so discombobulated.

I've posted this before and I will say it again. With our first #1 pick if there's a QB there that we like I would draft him. I wouldn't take one with that 1st pick if we had reservations about him. We don't know what our draft spot will be or what QB's will be available at this point. Time will tell. I like Shedeur and hope he can be our #1 but I don't think we will know for sure at seasons end. A lot to contemplate for our FO.

We're on the same page there with possibly one caveat'. I think if they have a target in mind and need to trade up a spot or two in order to draft him they should.

They probably would but I would hate to see us use that second #1 to move up. We need that pick for the O-Line and WR position.

A comical sequence of events:

Lose challenge.
Flagged for a false start.
Flagged for 12 men in the huddle.

All within the first offensive snap of the game.

I would hate to see that too. It certainly wouldn't be a preference of mine. But one thing I have noticed about the NFL is this. A high draft pick you can keep for five years by exercising your fifth year option. Teams build an offense around a QB. Not an offense and then add a QB. So while it wouldn't be my preference I understand that's the way things are done.

If "The Guy" is there, then it's worth it. My understanding is "The Guy" isn't in the this draft.

Williams had an offensive line

When they traded #2 last year to Jax to get the 2026 1st the trade was made to better ensure their chances to get a QB. The thought after the draft was Drew Allar, Cade Klubnik, Garrett Nussmeier, and LaNorris Sellars was all going in the 1st round. All had underwhelming seasons. I think they should stick to their initial plans, but Mendoza is the only QB I see that would be better than Sanders at this point. Moore is a prospect that has potential, but he is far from a finished product and may even return to Oregon next season. Simpson has faded down the stretch of the college season. If the Browns got the #1 pick, they have to use that pick on Mendoza and then build around him. If they don't have the #1 pick, they will have to offer the Jax pick but I can't see the Raiders trading down if Mendoza is there. The Browns will have a chance if the Giants or Titans get the #1 overall pick but teams like the Jets have ammo and could make that pick worth at least 3 number 1's and after what just happened to the Browns with the trade for Watson that trade is far too expensive and will deplete the team of needed talent to compete in the coming years.

The Browns have already announced that Watson will be on the roster in 2026. With that said if they cannot get Mendoza with their 1st round pick or by trading up using both 1st round picks then they should use their 2 1st on another Wide Receiver and a Left Tackle. The line is pitiful and even selecting Mendoza if the line does not improve, he should sit all year next year and not play behind that line. Also, Jerry Jeudy cannot be a number 1 wide receiver next season. The back shoulder throw that Sanders hit him with yesterday was a great pass and hot him right in the #3 on his chest and should have been a touchdown. It went right thru his hands and right to the corner for a pick. He cannot be the #1 target next year at receiver.

Giving Sanders and Watson 2026 and improving the roster will be the better play in 2026 if they cannot get Mendoza by their initial plan. In 2027 Manning, Sayin, and Riola should all be coming out. Go all in then to get 1 of them if Sanders is not a franchise QB.

Which is why I want to move on from KS and AB - there is no excuse for this. None. Having backups or a talent lacking talent does not prevent the team from being prepared and well disciplined. If talent had an impact the CFL would be unwatchable as there would be a penalty on every other play .... that's not the case. This is 1000% down to coaching.

j/c:


At first, when seeing the interception from Sanders to Jeudy, I initially put blame on Sanders for the throw. After looking at it in slo-mo, it was 100% Jeudy's fault. That ball was dropped like a dime into his hands and he allowed it to slip through and gave the defender a shot to make a play.

there are three areas of our team that are unacceptable IMO (at least glaringly so):

1. OL. That unit needs a complete overhaul. It's the worst OL i can ever remember.

2. ST's .. it's a horrible unit and continues to cost us.

3. WRs .. like the OL, this group needs all new members IMO

The talent level plays a part, for sure... but defending KS gets real hard when the team looks like they've never practiced together before Sunday.

How does that change the fact that weather wasn't a factor? So not having protection makes a QB throw for 50% completions? Not having an OL makes a QB thrown into coverage causing int's?

The week before Sanders got the ball out quickly. He found his check downs. This game he did none of that.

Yep, the ball was perfectly placed. The ball hit Jeudy right in the chest, his hands were slow to react to secure it. He then tried to hold on to it on his left hip and ended up with Johnson grabbing it. Just a generalization comment, this is why I prefer to watch the All-22. There is less chance to misspeak about situations.

Yeah, a defender ripping the ball away from a WR because the QB through into blanket coverage is all the WR's fault.

The ball was just thrown up for garbs.

Sanders had a bad game true. That throw though was not a bad throw. It was a back shoulder thrown perfectly and hit Jeudy right on his #3 and went thru his hands into the defenders.

Crazy how the ball hit Jeudy in the chest with blanket coverage.

With the defenders hands right there with his. That's what happens when you throw into blanket coverage.

So you didn't see that both of their hands were there? The throw was where it needed to be IF a defender wasn't right there too.

The ball hit Jeudy in the chest. It should've been caught. The end.

Watch the replay. The ball hit Jeudy on his #3. For all of the mistakes Sanders made on Sunday this throw was not one of them. It was actually a perfect pass. The defender did not close until the ball hit Jeudy between his arms right on the #3 and fell right into the closing defenders' arms. Aaron Rogers made a career with back shoulder throws just like that pass.

If you want to complain about Sanders two other interceptions go right ahead. He did not see defenders falling back into coverage. He also had another pass that should have been picked when a low snap through the timing off, but he went ahead a thru the ball to the receiver but the corner broke on the ball and should have picked it. He regressed in this game now doubt. But that back shoulder throw was right on the money. The defender did not make a good play the ball fell into his hands when it went right thru Jeudy's arms.

Thank you...."It was actually a perfect pass" to break down your point. The defender was in excellent position. The Safety was in position for a ball over the top. Sanders read the Safety and the coverage of the corner and threw a straight-line throw so it was away from the safety and so the corner couldn't look back and react to the throw

I would put Schwesinger in with him. This rookie who only started his senior year of college and was a walk on, has worked too hard to get here and I see complete effort on his part. Regardless of the record, this guy doesn't quit. That tells me a lot about the man.

That ball should have never been thrown into blanket coverage like that. As you would say, "the end".

Yep. That's fair. He shouldn't be grouped like that with the others.

No wonder Gabriel is your perfect QB. Only throw 2-to-3-yard passes. Never throw into danger but never challenge a defense. That pass was a very good pass. He made many mistakes on Sunday that pass was not one of them. Should have been a touchdown.

I would've chuckled if Sanders had gone up to Jeudy on the sidelines and started yelling and gesturing at him. Alligator arms.

But that's the problem that someone can't understand. A ball that hit's a receiver in the chest is the fault of the receiver. Had Jerry done what even h.s. receivers do and are taught - catch with your hands - it's a td. Probably wouldn't have changed a L into a W, but still.

Jerry catches with his body way too much. Maybe that's why he leads the league (I believe) in drops.

Using the same tactics you use in another forum? To claim I ever stated that Gabriele is "my perfect QB" is an outright lie. Both of these guys are rookies and both makes their share of mistakes. Of course you should challenge a defense by stretching the field. But you don't throw the ball to Jeudy who is covered like a glove. He isn't a Ja'Marr Chase or Justin Jefferson. In the grand scheme of things he's nothing more than an above average #2 NFL WR. There's a huge difference between a gamble and a sucker bet.

It's amazing how people will on one hand claim Jeudy is unreliable and drops a lot of balls. Then on the other hand justify Sanders throwing the ball into tight coverage to a WR who is unreliable and drops a lot of balls. They really need to pick a story and stick to it. They seem to want to have it both ways. At least you are in this case.


If he had been throwing the ball to Ja'Marr Chase the odds are it would have been. Jeudy isn't Ja'Marr Chase. We all know it and so should Sanders. Let me ask you something. Knowing what you do about Jeudy, how much would you count on him to out muscle an NFL defender in a physical battle for the ball? When a QB throws th ball he has to understand the circumstances.

There was no out muscling the defender on that play. The defender closed late after the ball hit him in the chest between his arms. The defender never made contact with Jeudy until the ball was already dropped and just fell into his arms. If Jeudy is not there the defender does not catch that ball it would have fallen to the ground. Jeudy not catching the ball is the only reason the defender was even able to make a play on the ball. It was a back shoulder throw executed by the pass but not the catch. It is designed to beat man covered which it did until the catch was not executed.

Sanders has shown the ability in 4 starts to beat man coverage with his arm talent. There is starting to be a book on Sanders right now and that is zone coverage from a zone blitz. Defenders falling back in coverage has been his issue with 3 of his 6 INTs in 4 and 1/2 games coming from a zone blitz scheme. Also, secondaries playing zone has caused him issues because he holds the ball trying for the big play instead of taken what is open and moving on to the next play. That was the biggest issue with early Baker's game here with the Browns also. Can he learn to execute vs those defenses? We shall see. So far, he has shown the ability to learn and fix some bad habits he brought with him from college. So, he is coachable. Most encouraging sign is Alex Wright, and other players have said repeatably that when they arrive every day to the facility Sanders is always in Stefanski's office going over film with Stefanski.

From things I have heard and opinions I trust in Cleveland like Quincy Carrier and the Ultimate Cleveland Browns Sports Show if Stefanski comes back Sanders has a better chance to return as QB. If Stefanski is fired it will not be good for Sanders.

Sanders has had one good game. He has certainly in no way shown the ability to gamble on him being the starting QB for the Browns moving forward. This fantasy some are convincing themselves of is amazing. The coverage was there. Jeudy is not a WR he could count on in that situation. There is no denying that except for those without love for all things Sanders as your post obviously shows.

Not at DT, it's not!

I guarantee if every player on the Browns, every player in the NFL, every media-mouth and every single poster on DT agreed that the INT was on Jeudy, there would be one person that still argued till the cows come home.

This is not only a perfect pass, but also a pass you want your QB to be confident enough to throw. And it doesn't even take much confidence because there is usually close to zero risk (even in "blanket coverage" lol).

That's the whole purpose of a back shoulder throw - to take advantage of tight coverage. The defender has too much momentum to react, turn his body around and make a play. It's nearly impossible. I'd say half of the time it doesn't work it's because the pass hit the defender smack-dab in the back of the helmet.

Absolute dime by Sanders that Jeudy hands off to the defender. Watch it - it's actually a near perfect fake handoff - right in the bread-basket! 🤣

The video plainly shows that there was hand fighting over the ball and the defenders arm was in the middle of the catch and in the face of Jeudy's the very second the ball hit Jeudy's hands.

Sorry it does not. The ball hit him in the chest before the defender makes contact with Jeudy.

Nope. His hand is in Jeudy's armpit, behind the ball. He doesn't touch the ball until it bounces of Jeudy's chest.

I think your eyeballs are seeing things your fingers want them to so they can get their daily workout.

Exactly Fate! I even broke down the basics of what the Safety and the CB were doing. The reason why not to throw the ball over the top and why a back shoulder throw was the correct read and excellent placement.



He had a rough day, but that rep and a couple others were excellent

Your personal attacks don't belong in this forum. Even someone like you should be bake to understand that. Put that kind of stuff in the forum you abandoned for obvious reasons.

His hands are in Jeudy's face and between Jeudy's arms upon the ball making contact. If your contention is that Jeudy didn't firmly have a grasp on the ball upon contact you would be correct. But the coverage played a huge part in that.

The back shoulder throw would apply if the defender was behind him. The defender came in from the side which greatly neglects the effect of the back shoulder throw. I'm sure you understand the difference.

I thought it was blanket coverage? Make up our minds.

That's no more a personal attack than the 93% of your comments that are 100% smart-azzed. Don't be a pansy, you called someone a coward in "these parts" last week and they didn't even say anything to you.

So you can't be there when the ball arrives from the side? Face it, Sanders never saw that defender or underestimated the closing speed in the NFL. Your minds area already made up. You can't see the defenders arm in Jeudy'd face between Jeudy's arms while breaking up the pass play. By the time the ball got there he had Jeudy covered like a blanket. Sanders never saw that coming.

You're smoking something, bro, and you should just lay down the pipe. The dude coming from the side has absolutely no impact on the play and is not the defender that INTs the ball. Quit having your cat advise you on film study. The defender is stride-for-stride from the LOS and Sanders sees that clear as day.

That's.
Why.
He.
Throws... the back-shoulder pass.

This could not be any easier and could not be any clearer, yet you're still arguing. It's football 101.


What's next? All this footage a deep-fake? GTHOH

8:22

There was no hand fighting. The ball hit Jerry in the chest before he even tried to get a hand on it. Perfect throw, terrible attempt at a catch. Any receiver worth his salt would've gotten his HANDS on the ball, not let it come to his chest.

There was no hand fighting. The ball hit Jerry in the chest before he even tried to get a hand on it. Perfect throw, terrible attempt at a catch. Any receiver worth his salt would've gotten his HANDS on the ball, not let it come to his chest.
Keep in mind who you replied to.

Defender placed his hand on Jeudy's chest so softly it wouldn't wake a sleeping baby. "Hand fighting!!"

j/c:

You all have to stop wasting your time arguing with someone who just wants to troll and pick a fight. Place him on ignore and move on....your experience here will be far greater.

"I guarantee it."

So your assertion is then that a "back shoulder throw" that hit him in the front because Jeudy had to turn around to have a chance at catching the ball and that was a perfect pass? You do realize that to be s back shoulder throw the pass has to be accurate enough to actually come over your shoulder, right?

A back shoulder pass thrown correctly comes over your shoulder. It doesn't come up short to where the WR has to turn around to have a chance at catching it giving the defender every opportunity to interfere with the play as he did in this case.

And you claim I'm the one smoking something? Sure, yeah, that's the ticket.

This was a "I had to turn around to catch the ball" throw. Also known as a little short.

An over the shoulder pass doesn't require the WR to have to turn around to have any chance at catching the ball. Nothing about that is "the perfect throw". I knew at some point you would be coming here to join the gang but anyone thinking that a WR having to turn around and stop his momentum to have a shot at catching the ball which allows the defender to interfere with the catch is
"a perfect throw" has more agenda than they do facts to back up that assertion.

I don't blame you at this point. There is a reason for that.

Someone help before I pee.

Did Jeudy have to turn around to have a shot of catching the ball or not on what these posters are calling an "over the shoulder pass"? Yes or no? Are you running an anti Pit campaign? Get all of your troops in line.

Jeudy biffed it again. Both Kugler and Johnston put the blame where it correctly lie during the broadcast, on Jeudy. Even Dracula commented that this was on Jeudy. It's not really a debate to anyone who is being serious.

Sheduer made three really nice throws during the game. This was one of them.

I had no idea you had entered the "Depends" portion of your life. Good luck with that. But now you have delved into the meme part of your show since you no longer have words to justify your BS. Typical.

Do you have ANY idea what a back should pass is? Never mind, you don't, it is obvious. It is also obvious that you can't stand being proven wrong, and you'll stop at nothing to change the narrative. Move along, or risk looking more ignorant.

The one that came up a little short to the point that Jeudy had to turn around to have a shot at catching it? That throw?

A back shoulder throw is a throw that comes over the WR's shoulder or is placed on the side of the shoulder the furthest from the defender. This was neither one of those. Try again. You're a fine one to speak about looking ignorant with your track record. Don't start throwing trash in my direction. You know how that always ends.

Nobody, ever, anywhere, called this an "over-the-shoulder" pass except you. Full stop. We (as in everybody in the football universe) called it a back shoulder pass. It's been called that six times on this page, by three different posters... including YOU. Now you're changing it to an "over-the-shoulder" pass.



THAT IS A BACK SHOULDER PASS -- THAT'S WHAT IT'S CALLED. You just typed the definition. Is this your first day footballing???

Hey Google, help out the helpless... what is a back shoulder throw?


A back shoulder throw in the NFL is a precise pass where the quarterback throws the ball to the outside shoulder (or back of the head/helmet) of a receiver running a deep route, forcing the receiver to turn back for the ball, away from the defender. It's often used on fade routes, to beat tight coverage by putting the ball where only the receiver can get it, creating a jump ball situation against a defender who is trailing or in position.

It always ends with you looking stupid, and trying to get the last word.

Pit as a child...

To be fair, he and the rest of us have been watching Browns Qb’s for 20+ years. If a Browns QB does it, it can be quite confusing on what we actually saw. Since we do not expect it to be in their repertoire.

Turning around is not turning back. Since it was you who said Sanders saw the coverage, how is it the defender was in position to get his arm between Jeudy and the ball? It was certainly not thrown "away from the defender".

Is this your first day at footballing?

At least I outgrew it. That obviously can't be said for you. You keep trying to make a point that doesn't exist.

Now that's a fair point. When 90% of the Browns QBs are off target 70% of the time, it is hard to wrap your mind around one being "off target" on purpose in order to throw a great pass. Hell, we waited since Kosar to finally see Baker throw a proper screen pass.

Hey, at least I only look stupid. I'm not the one who ends up being stupid. You'll need a mirror for that. I'll add a mirror to your Christmas list. Anything else arch?

Listen, Pit, honey... I made my point. I know what a back shoulder pass is, you don't. I know a good one when I see one, you're still off looking for the Zapruder film to make a point that doesn't exist.

"Back and to the right... Back and to the right."

Now that certainly throws an entire new wrinkle into things.

Can you "over-the-shoulder" it to him so he doesn't have to turn around and see your mug?

I wrinkle beats the heck out of a needle in a haystack -- you've been on your hands and knees looking for that for two hours now.

I'm sorry to inform you that I don't roll that way. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


And the part of your point you seemingly wish to ignore now is the entire "away from the defender" part. That certainly in no way applies here.


But keep pretending it does.