DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Now

That's right. You get a QB and build stability around that QB.

Let me explain the process many are supporting and the results that come from it.

They suggest you build the OL and WR positions first.

The result? With a better OL you have a better run game. This helps open up the passing game where even a mediocre QB, as you saw the results of yesterday, can be rather productive.

With a better running game and thus making it easier to pass the ball you win more games.

Your QB isn't good enough to win the division and even if you squeak into the playoffs you won't really get anywhere.

So where are you then? You're drafting in the middle of the round where it would cost you a kings ransom to move up to get a top rated QB if you could even manage to move up that far at all.

This isn't about AB. None of us know at this point in time who will be in charge by the time the draft arrives. It's about the process. It's about the best strategy which will lead us to the place we all want to arrive at.

People seem to act as if the Browns drafting a QB with their first pick they can't add good players to the OL or the WR position. That's simply not true. They have 2 first round picks, a second and third round pick, the second round where you can still get a very good upgrade at WR and the third round where a lot of good G's haven been drafted and they have the FA market.

You may not be able to totally rebuild the OL and WR positions in one year if they draft a QB with their top pick but you can get it off to a good start.

I agree...the dilemma is do you go ahead and draft a QB at #2 - even though TB couldn't win with this team - and build from there? Or do you focus on not being atrocious at OL & WR before attempting to find the future QB?

Ordinarily I tend to get the QB first if he's a can't-miss prospect and build from there. I just don't see a can't-miss guy in the '26 draft...and if there were a guy who was close to can't-miss, I still don't think I'd pick him given just how bad over offensive team is right now and I get better at OL & WR first.

The last QB that was a consensus can't miss was Andrew Luck.

Willie it's like the chicken or the egg scenario LOL! Bottom line is we have to finally draft the right QB and then draft or sign solid players to put around him. Up until now we haven't quite been able to do that.

I agree with everything you said there ^ except this 'not being about AB'. But he isn't the point right now so I'll move on...sort of.

I don't see a QB in THIS draft worthy of the #2 overall pick...even if our OL & WR were decent...which they are not. So I'm trading down again. I'm not sold on any of the 'top 3' of Mendoza-Moore-Simpson where they are likely to go so I'm going after the best WR or LT with our 1st Rd pick. (Where AB creeps into the picture is the '25 draft and talking Graham over the top LT/WR...then postponing the drafting of any WR/LT to '26.) Had we taken the best WR/LT in LAST year's draft at #5 we probably aren't having this discussion...or are having a different discussion.

So what to do with the JAX pick? Can you use that premium pick on a QB? A QB likely not yet ready to play? The 4th QB on the roster? I'm likely not doing that. Maybe Simpson if he falls that far.

So when DO you draft a QB to build around? Meaning in the '26 draft. I like the 1st tier and a couple 2nd tier QBs better than DG or SS (not saying much there)...but wouldn't draft the 1st tier guys where they will go and another not-ready-to-start QB in the late 1st or second is the last thing we need going into TC '26.

You typed this above: "It's about the process. It's about the best strategy which will lead us to the place we all want to arrive at." I completely agree...it's been the best route for many years now...I just don't see these guys getting it right.

If Mendoza falls into our lap...I'm all in on the process to 'build around the QB'. Otherwise, I'm building the team and waiting on the unicorn.

Splitting hairs in a way here...but IMO guys like Baker/Mahomes/Love/Maye/Herbert/etc. fall/fell into my 'can't-miss' group...even though not as 'can't-miss' as Luck. I knew those guys were legit NFL QBs without any clue as to how good they may actually become. I don't see that in Mendoza-Moore-Simpson.

If your reasoning is you don't think there is a QB worthy of a second or third pick in the draft that's a different story. It seems you have been better at evaluating QB's than the NFL has been. But could you list all of the QB's you thought were "can't miss" that you were wrong about for a more proper perspective?

And don't get me wrong. Baker is a pretty good QB. But the best he has done since leaving here is win division titles in one of the weakest divisions in the NFL. Thus far nothing has been shown that would make him be considered a SB winning QB. There is no doubt he is far better than anything we've had since.

The only odd thing I find about your post is that all along you've been saying we shouldn't draft a QB without building the team first. Now you seem to be employing a different strategy.

Mahomes was drafted #10, Love was in the 20's, Maye had a down year in college his Senior year like some of the top names from the beginning of this year, so I don't think everyone saw them coming out of college. If you knew who Josh Allen would become you certainly would not have selected Baker.

Mendoza and Moore have prototypical size, arm, and speed that would project them top of the draft board most years. Sampson is on the shorter side at 6'1 so that is main reason he will slide to back of the 1st round. After season ends I will not be surprised if a name that was hot before the season resurfaces as a potential 1st round pick. Maye had a disappointing senior year but his measurables were still what NFL scouts look for.

I look forward to watching Mendoza, Moore, and Simpson next week and beyond. The playoffs are as good of a tell to how the QB performs under pressure situation. Simpson looked pretty good on the road vs Oklahoma last week. Can he do the same vs Indiana? Can Mendoza look good vs Alabama, and Moore vs what looks like a really good Texas Tech defense. Playing James Madison at home did not really tell us anything about who Dante Moore is.

Whenever and whomever we draft at QB I just hope we draft a guy with height and arm strength this way there will be no debate about it and no issues. Obviously, he will have to have other attributes that make a very good QB but at least we won't have to argue those 2 points like with Dillon, Baker and even Shedeur.

Great reply, FQBs happen when they have competent OL personnel.

Before any QB discussion takes place , this franchise wont get out
Of the cellar till Stefanski and Berry are replaced.
The NFL is set up where teams can go from drafting in the top 10
To being in the playoffs the next season.
Stefanski and Berry have had 6 years to make the Browns into a contender
And both have failed . 2025 will be another 3 win season and
Let's no forget, ZERO wins in the AFC North this year .
It really doesn't matter who the Browns draft at QB as long Berry and Stefanski
Are in Berea .

The NFL is funny and is simple and complex at the same time
Even if your franchise has the proper ownership , snart savy GM aand a HC that knows how to put together a gameplan and franchise QB , that still isnt a lock to be a playoff team.
Who would thought this year the following teams would not be in the playoffs
The Lions , Chiefs, Ravens , Bengals , Commanders, Cowboys.
Sometimes it takes a bit of luck and good fortune to get to the playoffs
But back to the Browns , this franchise can't seem to get out the cellar even when
The other AFC North teams have does years . But retaining Berry and Stefanski is proven so
Far not changed any fortunes

It a classic question, what came first, the chicken of the egg? It's hard to argue against or for one or the other.

Just due to the draft system invoked by the NFL, I take the QB. The odds of getting a very good QB take a steep dive the later in the draft you go. The same can be said of all position, but that dive isn't as steep. You still have a good chance of drafting good players in the late 1st through maybe the 4th round. Some position even in to the 5th round.

Sure you can always find that gold nugget at QB later, but it is hard to bank on. It's hard enough taking a QB early on.

If we get the chance at one of the two QBs at the top of the draft, we must take the shot. No position makes as big a difference towards winning a football game than the QB. Joe Thomas, Myles Garrett, two players with all time great status haven't/didn't helped us win squat.

My view is you take the QB. The goal is to have a franchise QB. I really hope we can get that #2 pick. The team is in a great position for the future in my view.

There will be some roster turnover as always during the offseason. However, they have a solid base with hopefully your young players taking a step forward.

Lets start with the defense.

DE - Myles on one side, Alex Wright has done a solid job developing, McGuire has shown flashes

DT - One thing I think being overlooked, it's not normal for a rookie DT (no matter where they are picked) taking as many snaps as Graham has taken. He's kept getting better without hitting a rookie wall, especially at a position that takes a beating. Collins has/had a great season, hopefully he recovers and plays next year like this year.

LB - Carson/Bush have been a solid/great combo that will be back

CB - Ward is a year older, Tyson has fit in really well. Definitely need some depth here

S - Delpit had an excellent year, Hickman has been solid though it would be nice to move him into a first player to come off the bench

The defense is pretty much set with depth coming through FA/later round draft picks

I'll add offense in a second post

If JOK can come back our D will be even better. We could use some depth at CB but don’t forget Emerson should be back next season too.

As for the offense.

RB - Judkins/Sampson/Sanders set

TE - Fannin is excellent and looking forward to his growth with routes and blocking

WR - Jeudy will be back and hopefully in a 2nd receiver spot. A 1st or 2nd round wr and a veteran receiver. My opinion - First rounder (second of our picks) or 2nd rounder, Jeudy, veteran FA pickup, Bond, Corley, Tillman/Gage/FA or later draft pick fighting for the 5th spot

Now going back to the QB conversation.

My too early opinion as of now. I believe if the Browns have a choice of the three, Dante Moore is their choice. Moore and Mendoza have looked great, both have shown some great qualities. I believe the x factor is Dante Moore is a year and around 6 months younger than Mendoza. Berry and his staff have continually looked for younger players so they will keep developing them and they will make their 2nd and possibly even third contracts and still be in their prime.

My view would be for Sanders to start. See if he keeps progressing, especially with an offseason to work on fundamentals. Ideally (yes, I know that word isn't in the Browns vocabulary, lol), Moore would sit and learn. If Sanders keeps progressing then great, it's time to figure out which to keep, which to move.

Yea Home, I was thinking about JOK when I was typing it. Good point about Emerson, though I am leary about his first year coming back from that injury.

Generally speaking, I really dislike the this roster is void of talent talk. It isn't short of talent. The defense is gifted and needs basically needs depth pieces.

The offense is young. We have a ridiculous amount of rookies starting or playing big roles. Veterans tend to know all the little things about their position or are polished at running routes or blocking. Our RBs, Fannin, Bond, Gage, and even our second year WRs are still learning all these things while doing OJT (on the job training).

We need upgrades at QB, at least one main WR, and OL.

I was surprised to see you didn't have Schwesinger on your LB'er list. An oversight perhaps?

Regarding the OL.

I can see us making play for one of the top lineman in FA. Two is possible, though I think they will be cautious spending and extra 15-20 million on a second player. If they have a spot where a Jack Conklin becomes available then it's worth it to me (i.e. young, solid player who can have a chance with a second contract with the team).

The Wypler situation will be interesting as do they upgrade? Give him a chance to start next year? I think Jenkins will be back. I'm questioning Teller coming back. I thought it was pretty much a given, however with him sitting and sharing snaps it has given me second thoughts. Maybe they are giving Jenkins snaps seeing if he's worth keeping with the thought of him moving over to Bitonio's spot if he retires? I have no clue.

He's on there (Carson), I should've said Schwesinger so it stood out more. My apologies

No problem I just missed it. That's on me.

You probably understand this but your blind support for the Browns cloud your judgement.

The Browns could draft the next Pat Mahomes and still struggle to win the division, not to mention go to the SB. Having the best quarterback isn’t enough but you probably understand this.

Without Andy Reid and his coaches there would be no SB winning team in Kansas.
Without playmakers like Tyreek Hill and Travis, loyal water carriers, culture builders and role players the best qb in the NFL isn’t enough.

To draft and sign all this players, head coach and coaches you need a very good general manager and an understanding and wise owner.

On top of all this any ambitious organization needs a couple of players, coaches and employees with extreme winning mentality. Those who’re running thru a wall of bricks without hesitation.

That’s what it takes to win multiple Super Bowls.

The Browns don’t have any of that except Myles Garrett.
We probably need elite on 6-7 positions, probably more.

We definitely don’t have an elite head coach, not even close. If we’re generous he’s in the bottom third, if we’re realistic probably closer to the bottom five. Results don’t lie.

Our general manager has so far not shown enough competence to build by his own a division winning roster. His best season was his first, a roster by large build by Dorsey.

Who’s the culture builders on Berea?
Who’s those with winning mentality?

The owner? An asset or a liability?

You’re right that the best way to build a successful team is to start with the quarterback but that only applies if you have the infrastructure working. If you have the right head coach, a competent general manager and an understanding owner.

The Cleveland Browns have nothing of all the above. Past results, history the last 25 years and reputation backs me up on this. 100%. Start changing the GM, change the HC we’re closer, then your idea is 100% correct.

Do that and I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Just a comment...I agree with most of what you said in your last 2 posts.

In the latter you listed Moore as being 6 months younger. That doesn't make any difference. Too much is talked about when it come to age, especially at QB. Unless you are talking about drafting a 27 year old QB, who cares? Even then, worry about his age after he has played here 8-10 years.

To me age only matters with backs, receivers and corners. Those are the speed positions. I get wanting younger there. People start to slow down after 29 or so. After that, speed isn't as big of a concern for other positions. For that matter, it is useless to look 6-7 years down the road. That is a standard 4 year deal and maybe a 2 year extension.

Joel Bitonio is on his last leg. Great guy and one of the few cultural builders but unfortunately he will not be with us after this or next season.
So we talk about 1 QB, 4 OL, at least 2 WR, 1 TE, probably a CB, probably a safety and some linesmen. Minimum 7, probably much more. Elite or close to elite.

It’s funny you talk about me and my culture.
Pat Mahomes and his friends in Kansas often talk about the same thing, so did Brad and so did the Eagles players after their win.

Winners talks about culture and mentality.
Losers are often only ONE player away…..

...Everybody at this level of the sport talks about culture. How did KC's "great culture" carry them this season? The Eagles "culture" has been questioned all season. Winning fixes a lot. Losing creates problems. Culture doesn't grant immunity to age and injuries.

...all the teams that don't win the Superbowl could be the one right player away. Sadly, it has to be a particularly great player, and that often isn't available.

Yeah, it's too bad that they would have not only all of their other picks and FA's this year to build a team around a QB, but at least a couple of more seasons without the watson salary cap strangle hold on them to do so. If the last draft is any indication of their improved ability to draft players it isn't unlikely they could do that.

But your blind negativity gets in the way of admitting that.