DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How Dillon Gabriel and Shedeur Sanders compare

Some food for thought, and opinions

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...rs-of-5-pro-bowl-qbs-by-the-numbers.html

Really interesting.

I think the big plays are what stick in the memory. Also can open up the defense a little ...

End of the day I suspect it'll be an open competition next preseason, or we've landed a top pick.

True. But another factor is that Gabriel faced significantly tougher defenses.

"DW a player with back to back Achilles tears. He has been below average when he has played which is significant because he has played in only 19 games "

Can someone do the math? How much he got paid per game? How much he got paid per win?

Don't. You will only cause yourself undue pain.

$250 Mill - 9 wins to date.

$27.8 Mil per win at time of going to press.

Thanks

No wonder he didn't want to play. The more he wins, the less he makes per win.

Now that's genius. Thinking like that helped us win the cold war against the USSR.

Oh he might get more. I read somewhere Berry needs to re-jig his contract... I don't know it but would assume that comes at some sort of cost.

Watching the games there really was no comparison. Gabriel would not or more than likely could not throw the ball down field. He was too short to see the field, and he does not have an NFL caliber arm. Sanders has many things in his game he needs to improve and work on but he has better size, better arm talent, and ability to make big plays. He just holds the ball too long at times. He showed he can make quick reads at times so is he confused by some defenses or wants to make the big play every time. I do not know. He also just makes a few really bad decisions every game. Either way he has a chance depending on how hard he works. Gabriel will be a good coach someday.

It's odd how people make those claims while it was clear from his college tapes that those things are false.

My Opinion

Both young QB's played better than most people give them credit for. Now if you throw in the Offensive line they had to play behind, and our lack of NFL quality WR's and they look even better. It's still way to early to be writing either QB off, OR to be handing either the starting job. They both have their strengths and weakness but unless we improve the team around them, and they continue to learn and grow (hopefully) neither will be the answer, but it's just way to early to write either guy off, or to crown either one as our franchise QB.

The Browns have had a difficult time building a team around a starting QB they felt could be their future franchise guy.

Now the Browns have two unproven rookies with different skill sets and playing styles.

On top of that, who knows who will be the OC and HC that will be the ones to build a team around one of them. There is no way they can build a team around two unproven rookies.

Having to have a QB competition between two young QB's to decide who to build around will be a very difficult task.

I honestly feel the best way to approach this, and ofc this is not knowing the coaching situation yet.

Is to focus on Watson as the starter being he has the most experience and see what they have.

If they draft a QB, I honestly don't know if I can watch another season of a rookie QB and his learning mistakes. That is if he wins the job.

I truly hope whoever gets the starting QB job, the coaches will build around his strengths in order for him to be and make the team have a successful season.

As we all know, improving the OL and WR position is a top priority.

Although if Caleb Downs is sitting there.... Well ? LOL

Agreed wholeheartedly.

So to me it makes sense to build OL and WR in the off-season. Don't try to go QB unless one of those 2 top guys falls to us at 6. We could do a lot of good with a draft half as good as last year's. We could also drop down to 12-18 and have an extra 1st next year.

The big problem I have is Berry has a horrible track record of OL. And WR acquisition.

If either SS or Gabriel make it as a solid NFL QB, 2027 season would be a potential break out year.

Ship Gabriel at the first opportunity. Sanders is worth further evaluation.

Thank you for posting that article. It was really interesting. Here are my thoughts.

1. Herbert was/is a wild man. His stats were hilarious to pick through in that article.
2. On the flip side, Lamar's stats were really interesting through the lens of that article. With hindsight, you can definitely see what a talent but extremely raw QB looks like out the gate.
3. Neither of our QBs stack up in terms of being "the guy" for the future.

Further to that last point, I think Shedeur did enough with what he had to work with to warrant some hope (the absolute minimum). I thought it was REALLY interesting how the offense just looked different with him in there. Yes, he (overall) faced easier defenses, but the offense was able to move and (dare I say) threatened at the end of our last few games (the Buffalo game was supposed to be the toughest D he'd faced and he was moving them at the end of the game. It's commendable how he, as a day 3 pick rookie, was able to come in and sorta steady the ship over the first few weeks... and then actually be able to have the offense moving at times. When DG was back there (as well as Flacco, to an extent) the offense just looked 'stuck'. Yeah, they completed a bunch of throws but still didn't go anywhere.

I don't know if we will be building around either of Sanders or Gabriel. Any QB can use good O linemen or a good receiver or two. Any QB appreciates a good D that can limit the opponents scoring potential. The QB we are building this for probably isn't on the team.

If you build around a QB, that is more a function of coaching to put a system in place that highlights the QBs strengths. That isn't to say you don't bring in players who can help the QB in specific roles, but that is the fine tuning. Right now we are trying to build a framework that is necessary for any QB to have success.

A framework I might add that should already be in place.

They have only had TWO Couch, and Baker.

[/quote]Having to have a QB competition between two young QB's to decide who to build around will be a very difficult task.

I honestly feel the best way to approach this, and ofc this is not knowing the coaching situation yet.

Is to focus on Watson as the starter being he has the most experience and see what they have.[/quote]

The plan over the last year has been to cut Watson on June 1st of this year. Will that change now that Kevin is gone??? I don't know yet. Like you said it's going to depend on the next Head Coach as he will have a big say in it.


WE HAD two unproven rookies. Now we have two Sophmores.

The data reflected about what I saw in comparing the two to each other but not so much to the others on the list.

Gabriel may have a long career as a clipboard backup. Kind of a teachers pet, second QB coach type. Dink dunk all day long but gets the ball out of his hands and doesn’t give it to the other team. I’m not gonna watch tape on him so I don’t know if he missed lots of downfield opportunities but we all know he didn’t air it out and defenses played us tight because of that. It would not surprise me a bit if 3 or 4 years on he gets the starting nod for some team when the starter goes down and he pulls a Holcomb, looks pretty good in a limited run. I disagree that he can’t sling it but I’m not sure it’s not true he can’t see the field well. Total conjecture but the NFL is probably an inch or two taller than big college football. Maybe it’s too much.

Sanders is who he shows he is. Hangs on too long, makes questionable reads, but has a decent long ball and isn’t afraid to put it out there.The question is, can he grow significantly? Does he have that hunger and grit. The other QBs on that list do not lack for single purposeness and just competitive fire. Allen grew a lot after his rookie year. So did Jackson. Burrow and Lawrence felt much closer to current levels right out of the gates. Burrows competitiveness is legendary. Lawrence was always an adult. Jackson, Herbert, Burrow and Allen are all so tough And serious on the field, and it was evident pretty early on. I’m not saying Sanders isn’t these things. But he would have to make a much bigger step imo. My biggest question for him is just that fire and mental maturity, the underlying operating system.

The scrambling function in all of this is Coach obviously. Whoever comes in may have strong feelings about drafting somebody versus working with what we have. Personally, I don’t think any of the options look great. Having watched a little bit more of Simpson and Moore, and knowing that Mendoza is out of reach, I’d lean towards building out the rest of the offense, dropping back picking up another first for next year, and rolling with what we got. I’d love to be wrong about Sanders. He seems like a really great kid and what do I really know? DW is dead to me. I actually hope he doesn’t play well. I know that sounds messed up but I just want to get away from that guy. I’ve never hated the Browns more than when they hitched their wagon to him and I just wanna unhitch at the first reasonable opportunity.

I certainly agree with this. But I think it's also important to realize what the results of building an offense in this manner result in. A good OL opens up and makes your running game more productive. It gives your QB better protection. The addition of quality WR's gives your passing game a boost. All of which will help produce more wins while at the same time doesn't provide you with a franchise QB.

With an overage or slightly less than average QB, with the good D like we have, you stand a very good chance of playing seasons with a .500 record under those conditions. Maybe a game or two better.

That bogs you down in the middle of the draft order putting you even further away from having the ability to draft your franchise QB. And if you can, you'll pay a kings ransom for it.

That's why we see across the NFL that the vast majority of the time teams do it the other way around.

I think that with a corrected OLine and one or two better WR's, both of them have a chance to be a whole lot better.

Revamp the OLine, make it deep, powerful, & athletic... and then get us two impact WR's to put ahead of Jeudy. After that, let those two slug it out.