DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Now Pt. 2

I believe we share those same feelings. I was just trying to interject a little perspective. I probably don't keep up with this as closely as some do. I mean I have looked at the overall big picture but for me it really is inconsequential until a HC has been hired.

I knew there were quite a few HC jobs open. But when I saw the total was eight of them and that's 25% of all NFL teams, and how some of those teams already have their QB's in place with plenty of cap room, it really hit home just how bad of a predicament the Browns find themselves in.

Haha

The seeming popularity of the Rees as OC or HC suggestions perplex me.

I mean we have seen it time and time again where they play calling has been slammed consistently on this very board.

I certainly understand the argument that It's more about executing the plays called than the actual plays being called. I have made that same argument myself many times. I've also made the argument that doing exactly what your opponent is expecting you to do is not the smart approach to fourth down calls.

What the issue boils down to for me is this. When it's your OC making those play calls, when it's he who is in charge of the O, why is it he keeps calling plays this O is in no way ready for or equipped to execute? The O said of the ball was obviously the weak link here. And Rees had his hands involved in all of it. I chalk it up to not having enough talent on the roster period. But if Stefanski is being blamed for the O why in the world would people not lump Rees in with that?

I know people can say, "Yeah but t was Stefanski's system and plays". But his system isn't overly complicated and the plays for the most part aren't complicated either. Why would anyone think a more complicated O in a more complicated system would be a benefit? That's directed just at people who blame the whole ball of wax on Stefanski and are trying to give Rees a free pass..

Actually most of those guys with better records were fired after the Stefanski firing was announced. Otherwise we are pretty much in agreement.

I think it’s just fine to have high hopes but as longtime Browns fans I think that’s ALWAYS tempered with that reality that this is the Cleveland Browns we’re talking about here…
We’re pretty well based in that reality.

Most established coaches with 8 wins over 2 seasons lose their jobs. Heck, most coaches with 3 win seasons manage to lost their jobs. Yje Browns were excedingly patient with Stefanski. I know there were personnel challenges, but he lost whatever ability he had to make a winner out of little. He has a Super Bowl level defense, and could not win. Offensive challenges aside, theh defense managed to add in UDFA and low end FA ..... and make an elite unit. Stefanski couldn't even make a below average unit out of his. He had numerous problems, an inabilty to eliminate the mental mistakes being the most galling. He was done here. He just seemed to lose whatever he had that made him at al special, It was time for him to go.

As an aside, my typing sucks.

As an aside, my typing sucks.

KS has a very plausible defense for his lack of success in Cleveland. Top 3 reasons:

DW
DW
DW

I think if DW was not in the picture, the results would be different. The Houston Texans thank the Browns.

You can say that again!

Just a reply to your post Pit. I agree about the executing the plays.

I said this after the last game. I can't speak for previous years of Kevin's playcalling. Watching Kevin and Rees calling plays were different, I guess the word would be structure. Kevin didn't use much motion at all in the beginning of the year. By the end of the year, we were using it regularly to uncover man to man or zones. Now, the one thing I do want to bring up as a possbililty, we did have a lot of young players. Maybe they didn't want to overload them. I don't know, just trying to give a possibility of what could've been the reason for it.

The main thing was the formations we used. Kevin really didn't build off of looks. He would run a play with a look and it was an end around with Corley. Then you wouldn't see that look the rest of the game. This happened quite a bit. When Rees was calling, he would run that play. Then throughout the game, he would run that formation with Corley in motion and run play action or a dive/off tackle with Judkins. You could see in the end zone view of the replays the LBs either sliding to the side of the motion or after snap take one step that direction then have to adjust back to the other side.

I liked Kevin. I wanted him to stay for another year.

I see the comments about Kevin is gone, Berry should be gone.

A couple possibilities as to why Berry is still here.

Ownership could look at this team and see the progress it made with drafting of players. They might look at it and say we had one of the top defenses in the league. We have some really good parts on offense with these rookies. We need a pieces on offense. If we clean house with our GM and HC, they might just blow this all up and start over again. We just need a new voice leading this team and try to keep our DC and Rees.

I liked KS too and thought he should get another year from just what I've seen but I don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Maybe management felt he wasn't holding players and other coaches more accountable. We were ranked dead last in offensive support. How can you win with that. Some people want to blame AB for that, but you can't do that without giving him credit for the D, our last draft, some trades he made and some solid FA signings. AB is on the right track and I think he deserves another year for the draft and FA signings. JMO

Giving AB credit for the defensive talent would mean if you are being fair then you would also have to credit him with the terrible offensive talent. Life is a two way street.

When Stefanksi first arrived here he went 11-5 with the offensive talent and roster John Dorsey had assembled. He even managed to lead the team to the playoffs after they pulled Flacco off the couch. That evolved into having no real QB, no real OL and no real WR's. That was all under Berry's watch. And Stefanski took the fall for it all. I'm not bitter or angry about it. But it is what it is and everything else is nothing but excuses.

We all said it after The Trade: if this blows up in our faces we are so screwed.

And guess what? We still don’t know who the QB is.

One thing that I just kinda realized is that back when we did the Watson trade, we had one of if not the worst defenses in the league. We did the trade for Watson and started dumping what little draft ammo we had into the defense. It took him a while, but Berry constructed an elite offense over the time period that was supposed to see Watson come in and solidify the offense.

The offense has obviously fallen off (to put it mildly), but in terms of everyone's part that they're playing, maybe it was seen as Berry holding up his end of the bargain (building the D) while Stefanski floundered with his offense.


I'm just spitballing.

Was it berry bringing in players or was it ditching the incompetent defensive coordiator and bringing in Schwartz?

I think it was a little of both. I think we had a number of players that just weren't getting it done (compare Schobert to JOK or Schwesinger today) and our Dline was WEAK, but we also had players that we just weren't utilizing (like putting Ward and co. in zone all the time).

Coming from this.......


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/john-harbaugh-matt-lafleur-nfl-coaching-cycle/

Like Greg Williams playing Jabrill Peppers 30 yards back like a center fielder

Dorsey not Berry

I'm disgusted with the DW saga as much as the next Browns fan but if he looks good and gives us the best chance to win then I feel we should play him. We're paying him anyway. If we fix the OL and get a solid #1 WR with some decent QB play we can turn this around for next season. However, the right moves and decisions have to be made. Long way to go.

I think DW playing well again is pretty much just wishful thinking, but sometimes that's all we got here in Browns Town. Regardless, we shall see...or maybe not....

You bought her the biggest diamond ring you could find. She cheated on you for four straight years.

Telling her you still want to be together is the epitome of stupid. You know, she knows, the entire world and history of the universe knows - it will never work out.

Why would he want the Browns... I mean really?

He would be saddled with a $230 million dollar lump of coal.... Two second year QB's neither of which set the world on Fire, An offensive line that couldn't stay healthy and is getting older. (joel Bitonio may retire) and let's not forget the owner that doesn't understand that the team is truly dysfunctional. But on the good side, he would get a great Defense... But would the DC stay on? (did I hear that he's agreed to do that?)

Yeah, they'll pay him the $20 million per year... Yeah, they'll put up the $10 million for staff but I'm not sure they'd give him Full Control...... And if they did, when has he ever had that before?

And then there is the question of why would we want him for all of that cost? I mean he's had one of the best QB's, Defenses, and overall Offenses in the league and couldn't get it done since getting him. What makes anyone think he can get Sanders or Gabriel to be the next big thing. And let's face it, Berry hasn't found a top QB in 6 years. Three of which he didn't have a 1st round Pick.

Look I'm not really knocking Harbaugh, I'd be happy if we got him... Just not sure he's the right guy, but he is a pretty safe bet.

Our second first round pick is now set. We pick 6 & 24 in the first round.

I will eat my hat (happily) if Harbaugh comes to Cleveland. He can say say nice things but I just can’t believe that’s real.

You're making too much sense.

The speculation is insane at best. There is no way this dude would tarnish his legacy for a freakshow and a fist-full of dollars. He's earned 120M as a HC alone. I'd estimate that it would take about 30M per year to get him to take this plunge.

I'm just curious. I know you mentioned the possibility of Harbaugh taking watson into account when making his decision. But doesn't watson's contract end after the 2026 season?

When you look at both the Titans and the Giants you are looking at teams who have first round QB draft picks in place who have years on their contracts. I think it would be a huge gamble for Harbaugh to choose a team he thinks may have the answer at QB on a one year rental when other options offer more stability at the QB position in terms of the timeline.

Before I say anything I'll mention that if I had to put money on a bet then I'd lean the way you just laid out.

That said, I'm not sure coaches motivations are so cut and dry. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Harbaugh could see past the Browns history and see an opportunity to set himself apart (succeed where others have failed). Haslam has a history of meddling, but also has a history of doing whatever he can to help construct a roster. Remember, what we did with Watson (back when he was still considered an elite QB) was unprecedented and something few owners could manage.

I'll also repeat something I said before... he's a Harbaugh. I'd find it hard to believe he hasn't thought about potentially sticking it each year to the team that cut him loose.

Some coaches and players are motivated by their legacy. Some are motivated by revenge. Any team with a dismal record at the bottom of their division that you rebuild into a perennial winner and super bowl champ would set you apart. Overlooking better opportunities to accomplish that strictly for the sake of vengeance would show a lack of common sense.