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I could pull scriptures from the Bible showing that a true Christian would have a difficult time presiding as a president for a superpower that thrives off of a free-market economy. An observant Christian would be hesitant to go to war, an observant Christian would not believe in the tenets of a captialistic society, etc., etc.
All of that is absolute nonsense and garbage. If you wish to pick apart the ridiculousness of the Quran, I will laugh heartily at it with you...but make no mistake - the Book of choice over here is pretty scary and short-sighted as well.
No man's religious beliefs should be considered to be the letter of the law that's been written...if that was the case one would have to conclude that nearly all denominations were absolutely nuts.
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I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED NOR WOULD I THAT B. HUSSEIN OBAMA is an observant Muslim...prays on the floor facing Mecca 5 times a day to honor Mecca and Allah.
No, you're doing it, you're just smart enough to hide it. You are doing it by saying B.Hussein Obama. There is no reason to phrase his name that way, unless you are trying to draw attention to the Hussein part. Why would you do that? Because it would bring to people's attention that its a Middle Eastern name. Most people would then tie that, in their minds, to Islam, which people in this country tie to extremist Islam. You are doing it, but like I said, you're smart enough to hide it.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Interesting. There is such a thing as a "just" war. Perhaps, at some point in time, you could read the Bible, or re read it, and notice all the wars - ah, but you have stated many times before that you don't believe in God, so actually getting you to see the other side is meaningless.
Not trying to be rude. Violence is not the first choice. But non-violence is not the only choice.
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I think we're actually agreeing while we disagree here...
I am not saying that the Bible isn't barren of violence or justified violence. I am saying that there are all sorts of contadictory statements and conflicting ideals and generally stupid things scattered amongst wise ones in every religious text.
I could pull quotes from any Bible to defend any stance. I could make a Christian look like an enlightened, honest, peaceful and fair person, or I could make them looking like a bloodthirsty Neanderthal. I could do the same with the Muslim and the Jew.
The problem that resides here is that not many people here have a familiarity with Muslim people, beliefs, tradition, etc...so to them the word 'Muslim' suddenly becomes a red flag. Whereas here, no one fears the insanities contained in the Bible, because they recognize that the majority either doesn't know or doesn't believe them.
And the height of stupidity is to find out that someone is Muslim or Jewish or Christian or Catholic or atheist and make any preconcieved assumptions about that person.
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Phil....you never see the larger point in this discussion.
A Christian candidate would not claim to be a non Christian and then attempt to govern by his religious beliefs...
this is my point
I have only a small concern that any of the candidates may be Muslims in the 2008 election...and even less that any would be observant Muslims...but if they were to be such....better watch the next President's slacks for prayer rug lint several times a day.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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A Christian candidate would not claim to be a non Christian and then attempt to govern by his religious beliefs...
If the polls showed a high rate of tension and discomfort with Christians, I'd bet the farm that they would.
And you're saying that a Christian wouldn't govern by his religious beliefs? 
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but if they were to be such....better watch the next President's slacks for prayer rug lint several times a day.
So what does that even mean? You act like it's a reprehensible thing to pray to Mecca. I assume you feel that way, to which I can only say I have no particular desire to see our president hanging a cross in his office and going to confession, but it doesn't signal anything inherently wrong to me.
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Great post Free Agent....
Your story is not just relevant to the Oil Industry.....I don't even want to think about what will happen if the government gets their hands on the Healthcare Industry.....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Great post Free Agent....
Your story is not just relevant to the Oil Industry.....I don't even want to think about what will happen if the government gets their hands on the Healthcare Industry.....
Thank you Pete, and I also have fears that if Hillary or Obama or Edwards for that matter win and they get a Government Healthcare program going we are going to see the destruction of the greatest healthcare system in the world.
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Did anyone see the Republican debate last night? I think they needed to bring up Ronald Reagan a few more times. 
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Jules , living way down South as I do ; I don't get as much Stateside coverage as I would like . I did get to see the debate last night . Problem # 1 for me was the fact that it was on FOX... FAIR AND BALANCED my ass ( editorial comment ) .. Thomson came across ( to me ) as a typical Southern smug smart ass , McCain arrogant , Romney not bad , the Razor Back is a real slick talker , NY, NY is not going anywhere , and poor Ron Paul ( smartest of them all and the only true Repo Man) , just is not a good public speaker .. Has a hard time getting his words right .. observation !  .. Looks like politics as usual  .. Dam shame !
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I said last night that Ron Paul is the Republican's version of Ross Perot. LOL. He makes some sense but comes off like a little twerp trying to make his points.  This was my first look at the Republican candidates, well any of the candidates for that matter. I don't really start paying attention until about now in the election process. I found it pretty interesting, although I missed the last 1/2 hour or so.
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From an economic stand point Paul is right on .. Problem is no one wants to here it , including his own party ??? Just don't see how we can keep doing " Biz " as usual without serious , serious , problems down the road ( short alley ) 
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nrtu...does anyone know of an unbiased website to read about all the canidates? or are they all biased is some way? 
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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does it really matter? does anyone actually see america electing a minority/female president? IMO you might as well hand the job to the next republican, because even though I think a well qualified minority/female candidate is what this country needs, i dont see it happening anytime soon.
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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It could happen ;;;; If the Republicans go into their Convention with no clear cut candidate . It could happen if Ron Paul breaks away and runs an Independent . It could happen if someone Like Bloomburg , or another enters the race as an Independent .. Long wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy to go . 
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because even though I think a well qualified minority/female candidate is what this country needs, i dont see it happening anytime soon.
Too bad there isn't a well qualified minority candidate in the primaries.
And I think a minority could easily win, if you get the right candidate. What's also sad is that some people will vote for the minority candidate just because they are a minority.
I could easily see Obama winning. He's got general appeal, he says the right things and handles himself well. If Ron Paul enters the race as an Indy, he could easily pull enough Republican votes away from whoever he's running against to win big. I don't really see Hillary winning though. She's too polarizing. But she too could also win if a big name Indy runs like Ron Paul.
You remember how Clinton won both times? Ross Perot entered the race as an Indy, and took a big chuck of votes away from the conservative side.
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good points, nicely played  the only thing I disagree with is yes, people will vote for him just because he is a minority, but i believe many more people will not vote for him, just because he is a minority.
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Quote:
good points, nicely played
the only thing I disagree with is yes, people will vote for him just because he is a minority, but i believe many more people will not vote for him, just because he is a minority.
The typical Republican voter won't vote for them regardless of race or gender. What I'll be interested to see is how the Independents break, as well as the Democrats. Will we see a lower percentages of Dems and Indys voting Democratic? Considering how many are upset with Republicans in this country this should be a huge political topic.
#gmstrong
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Thank you Pete, and I also have fears that if Hillary or Obama or Edwards for that matter win and they get a Government Healthcare program going we are going to see the destruction of the greatest healthcare system in the world.
I won't shed any tears.The greatest Healthcare system in the world needs a little work.I recently lost my job of 34 years to a Chinese manufacturer . I took the Cobra coverage which was very expensive because I could afford it.I'm an old guy and my house is paid for I have no debt and some money in the bank. Shortly after my layoff my daughter needed an appendectomy. I'm on a hot streak! All the bills have not come in yet but it looks like the insurance company will pay about $12000. If I was a young guy with a mortgage and car payments I would not have been able to afford the Cobra coverage without a paycheck. My bill for the appendectomy would have been $ 40000. This is a great system?
I don't know how to fix this but to me the place to start is everyone pays the same price for the same service. Insurance company adjustments should be against the law. Why should an unlucky someone be on the hook $40000 and the insurance company pays $12000 for the same service? Great system my..... 
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we are going to see the destruction of the greatest healthcare system in the world.
You realize that we're not even close to that, right?
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The American Health care system has been broke for years & years now ..
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Considering how many are upset with Republicans in this country this should be a huge political topic.
People keep saying this, but does it mean you can throw any Democrat out there and they'll just win? Also, I think people are saying "People are upset with Republicans" because Bush has a low approval rating. Well Congress has a lower approval rating than Bush, and they have a Democratic majority.
And I don't get this preceived notion that 49% of the country is going to vote Republican regardless of who's up there, and the only way for a Democrat to win is to convince everyone else in that other 51% to vote Democrat. There are people on both sides that will vote party regardless of who's running ... just as there are plenty of people on both sides who will swing.
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Kinda like a switch hitter ? 
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No, those people ALWAYS vote Democratic. 
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Oh my ! 
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yebat' Putin
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No, those people ALWAYS vote Democratic.
Not all.
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I thought you always batted left handed... 
yebat' Putin
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That's not the point I was trying to make. If Republicans don't vote for Barack/Hillary, that could be expected. If Dems (and Indys to a lesser extent) break for a Republican in large numbers that would be a hot topic.
Sure you can never expect people to always vote the same way but there are some established trends. In the last election two elections Republican have taken major hits. As of right now there isn't a strong Republican canidate for President. That may change but do you see Dems voting for any Republican in large numbers?
#gmstrong
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Yeah, I do only swing one way. 
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As I mention a while back ; You just might have a split Republican party going to their Convention .. Something to keep an eye on .. 2008 could be very interesting 
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The American Health care system has been broke for years & years now ..
I guess you don't realize how broke until your ox gets gored. I had a close call here but it really made me think how many other hard working folks get badly burned when they have a streak of bad luck. I sure as heck don't want to pay for people who are looking for something for nothing but I don't want to see good hard working folks financially ruined by illness and bad luck either.
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osama...obama? oh my.. so close they must be the same person!
Huckleberry/Huckabee? oh my...too close for comfort IMHO
...always have been, always will be...
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Thank you Pete, and I also have fears that if Hillary or Obama or Edwards for that matter win and they get a Government Healthcare program going we are going to see the destruction of the greatest healthcare system in the world.
I won't shed any tears.The greatest Healthcare system in the world needs a little work.I recently lost my job of 34 years to a Chinese manufacturer . I took the Cobra coverage which was very expensive because I could afford it.I'm an old guy and my house is paid for I have no debt and some money in the bank. Shortly after my layoff my daughter needed an appendectomy. I'm on a hot streak! All the bills have not come in yet but it looks like the insurance company will pay about $12000. If I was a young guy with a mortgage and car payments I would not have been able to afford the Cobra coverage without a paycheck. My bill for the appendectomy would have been $ 40000. This is a great system?
I don't know how to fix this but to me the place to start is everyone pays the same price for the same service. Insurance company adjustments should be against the law. Why should an unlucky someone be on the hook $40000 and the insurance company pays $12000 for the same service? Great system my.....
This is also a reply to Phil as well, I said it was the greatest I didn't say it was perfect. The problems are correctable but not by giving control to the Federal Government.
The Issues:
The coverage is too expensive. - Well why is it expensive? It's expensive because Malpractice insurance is skyrocketing every year. So what happens in a Capitalist economy? The doctors rates go up go counter the insurance increase, which the Health insurance companies pay. So what happens when Health insurance companis have to pay more? They increase the coverage rate.
What is causing Malpractis insurance to skyrocket? Lawsuits against doctors. Granted if a doctor makes a mistake that hurts/kills someone the victim/family deserves compensation. It's the amount of compensation that needs to be regulated IMO. Too many times people get rewarded amounts of money that they would have never achieved in thier lifetime unless they won the lottery.
There was a lady that recieved 20 million dollars because the doctors miss diagnosed and didn't find her husbands cancer in time to save his life. He was 65 years old and retired. They lived in a small condo in Florida and lived on a fixed income of ~1500 a month.
Now I'm not heartless, she should have been compensated especially when you can find doctors that were careless with testing. But 20 million?? No way she should of gotten that much, maybe all funeral expenses paid and $300,000 - 1,000,000 in pain/suffering depending on the level of neglect by the doctors.
Tort reform can go a long way in making healthcare affordable.
The next issue is State Policy requirements.
Did you know that each state has requirements on what insurance companies must offer in thier insurance? In a lot of states it is used to drive out smaller competition. Make a Federal Policy so all insurance companies must offer at least minimum requirements on thier base packages. Thus increasing competition and that leads to lower costs to the consumer.
The last are I'd like the Feds to step in at is to take away insurance responsibilities from companies and allow us to shop for our own. You don't get your car insurance from you work do you? Well you shouldn't need to get your health insurance there as well. Since in my second step you open up the country to free market health insurance you can shop around for a plan that meets your budget and instead of the company you work for getting a tax write off you would get it. That's right you should get a tax credit on your returns like most companies get now.
Now after all of that if you still can't afford health care there is already government programs and private charities in place as it is now that can help you and your children untill you can provide the coverage for yourself.
If you want to compare the US health care system to any country on this planet then lets do it. I'm ready when ever you are because I know where the best doctors are, the best hospitals are, the places that cure more diseases are, the companies that make/discover the most medicine are.
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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osama...obama? oh my.. so close they must be the same person!
Huckleberry/Huckabee? oh my...too close for comfort IMHO
That sums up our choices to me...
a guy who sounds like Osama,
a guy that probably spent his entire life getting called Huckleberry,
the pants wearer in the Clinton family (we all know Bill never kept his on ),
or some guy with the first name Mitt.
We are soooooo screwed. 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You take the time to think with your posts...they're always well-thought out despite the fact that I often disagree. With that said, you can go on and on about how government programs are in place and private charities and so on and so forth, but all rhetoric aside, we live in a country where a working stiff employed by a company that doesn't offer him health care would be looking at years and years and years of turmoil and potential financial ruin just for getting sick or getting in an accident. I've seen it so many times it sickens me...life's a roll of the dice, but we're well off enough to not have that problem. Whatever the solution, fix that problem.
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You take the time to think with your posts...they're always well-thought out despite the fact that I often disagree.
With that said, you can go on and on about how government programs are in place and private charities and so on and so forth, but all rhetoric aside, we live in a country where a working stiff employed by a company that doesn't offer him health care would be looking at years and years and years of turmoil and potential financial ruin just for getting sick or getting in an accident. I've seen it so many times it sickens me...life's a roll of the dice, but we're well off enough to not have that problem.
Whatever the solution, fix that problem.
I understand that not everyone agrees. In general Phil I think we both want to get to the same destination we just want to take different roads to get there
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j/c
As far as health care goes - I'm all for it.
Let's back up a few steps though. Health care is not a birth right in this country. Sorry to sound callous.
Long time ago we started this thing called welfare. We gave money and things to those that could not afford them. That hasn't worked so well, has it? However, it has now become viewed as a "right", as in "I have the right to have other people take care of me."
It has become ingrained in some people, to the detriment of society. Next was social security. The whole idea, when started, was NOT to be your only source of income in retirement years, but to be a supplement to what you had saved for yourself over your working years. Today? I hear of people constantly complaining of "I can't live on my SS alone. It's not fair. We need more." (it's that entitlement attitude)
So, what has happened? We now have people working and spending everything they make, and too often MORE than they make, saving nothing because "the gov't. will/should take care of me. After all, I worked my 40 years.
There are many examples of gov't. stepping in and trying to do a good thing, but in a few years time that "good" the gov't. was trying to do to help becomes looked at as a right.
We have the right to take care of ourselves. Too many don't care about that right, or don't act on it.
Finally, the gov't. cannot take over health care for many reasons, but money is one of them. The money just flat out is not there. Our gov't. cannot pay for what it currently does.
Is there a need for health care reform? Oh yeah. An average Joe today, even with insurance, can be financially sunk quite rapidly. My contention is not "do nothing" concerning health care, but rather "don't get gov't in charge of it" if that makes sense. Plus, if we have socialized medicine, we all know what that will do, don't we? It will cost more than it does now. We will get poorer health care. It will bankrkupt this country within about 10 years (my guess), and in 15 years we will have nothing.
What's next? I have a right to have someone else pay my mortgage? I mean, after all, the rich people have nicer houses than me. We all need a place to live, right? That should be a "right", shouldn't it? And while we're at it, why should I pay my electric bill? I mean, in this country, we all have electric, and need it. Hence, the gov't. should pay for it, right? It's my right.
I don't have the answer to fixing health care, but I do know getting gov't. in charge of it will make matters much worse. Let's find a different answer. Start with lawyers/lawsuits. Unjust malpractice awards.
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...................... Heres one for ya !!!! . “The U.S. credit rating is at risk,” reports Chris Mayer this morning. Citing a Moody’s report yesterday, Mayer suggests what we’ve tried diligently to document in our documentary. According to Moody’s, unless the U.S. can curb booming health care and Social Security spending, it could lose its AAA credit rating by 2017. If the government were to lose the ranking -- which it has held since 1917 -- confidence in the U.S.’s ability to pay back debts will be seriously damaged, and the U.S. economy could face a ginormous slowdown. “The loss of the AAA rating is far from just symbolic,” warns our Chris Mayer. “Current holders of U.S. government debt include foreign central banks, huge pension funds and sovereign wealth funds. Some of these investors will invest only in AAA-rated securities. “When I read stories like this, it makes it harder than usual to stomach election-year politics. Is anyone paying attention to how much the government spends? Maybe with the market tanking, people will start to think about money again… and look less graciously on those who spend it so carelessly.” Ha. It ain’t a problem until it’s a problem… then it’s a really big problem. And that’s what history labels a financial crisis. 
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Great post.
Has anyone else heard that our national debt is not the reported $9 trillion, but actually closer to $500 trillion?
I'll try to find a link.
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