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this isn't a democracy.....its a republic.
if this was a democracy, everyone would have to vote on everything.
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how an election could could be determined by two states in the eastern time zone (first time in history).
That's kind of misleading. I'm not sure how Florida and Ohio "determined" the election. Sure, without the 2 states, someone else would've won. But then again, without new york, or california, or utah, or any other states, it could've/would've been different.
I'm fairly certain that there have been many other elections where, if the winner had lost 2 key states, the other guy would've won.
What you and hbo assert is correct, but it is misleading to say the least.
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Yes, I do understand. When Mike Turner was our Senater, our area was "redistricted". What basicly happenned, was they cut the "city" in half. That way there was enough suburban votes to swing both of the newly formed districts the GOP's way and the actual citizens of the "City of Dayton" no longer had any baring on the election. Divide and conquer politics!   Problem being, I would venture to guess that it's a two way street and that both partys take advantage of such situations. This just happenned to be one that I was close to. It was kind of sad though. Tony Hall was a pretty damned good congressman for my tax money. As soon as the redistricting was complete, Hall retired from congress and was appointed as an ambassador.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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That's kind of misleading. I'm not sure how Florida and Ohio "determined" the election. Sure, without the 2 states, someone else would've won. But then again, without new york, or california, or utah, or any other states, it could've/would've been different.
Arch, what planet are you living on? The election was determined by those states that had voting problems for some reason. Florida the first time and Ohio the second. I am wasting my time even telling you cause I know your smarter then that. Its like arguing with my GF? Tell me something, is there night and day on the planet you live on?
Secondly what is the purpose of a DOCU-MEN-TARY - To provide information regarding a topic. I know its not on FOX news or any other FCC regulated station (I guess thats why they are trying to take it off the air), but the facts in the film are very alarming if you dare to watch.
I realize that you would like to think that your government wouldnt kill there own, or that racism is a thing of the past (get over it right). But the country that we live in was built on lies and it continues to do so currently.
One a another note why wouldnt we defend Israel? They stole there land just like the europeans did in the past. At least the Palestinians have the courage to fight back.
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Wow. Talk about taking something out of context.  Quote:
Arch, what planet are you living on?
Earth. You?
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The election was determined by those states that had voting problems for some reason. Florida the first time and Ohio the second.
So, it was 2 elections stolen???? Wow. Quote:
I am wasting my time even telling you cause I know your smarter then that.
Yup.Quote:
Its like arguing with my GF?
I don't know your girlfriend, so I can't answer that. I can say that most of society has accepted the election results. Even the "loser" in each election accepted them. But, you must know something the rest of us don't.
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Tell me something, is there night and day on the planet you live on?
Every day. What about your planet?
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Secondly what is the purpose of a DOCU-MEN-TARY - To provide information regarding a topic. I know its not on FOX news or any other FCC regulated station (I guess thats why they are trying to take it off the air), but the facts in the film are very alarming if you dare to watch.
And Mikey Moore makes "documentaries" as well. Nuff said.
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I realize that you would like to think that your government wouldnt kill there own, or that racism is a thing of the past (get over it right). But the country that we live in was built on lies and it continues to do so currently.
Not sure what you are getting at with the first sentence - our gov't. killing our own - so I'll not reply to that part.
However, on to the "rascism a thing of the past", part. For the most part it is, although it does still exist. And the sad thing is, it goes both ways, but my guess is you don't see it that way. If that's the case, you are wrong. We can discuss that in pm's if you would care to do so.
Then, "our country was built on lies and continues....." Interesting. Wrong, but interesting. Have there been lies? Absolutely. Was our country built on those? Hardly, but you can go on believing it if you want.
Show me a country - any country - that is perfect. I would wait for a response, but there isn't one, so we'll move on, k?
One a another note why wouldnt we defend Israel?
Not sure, why wouldn't we? You seem to feel that Israel took someones land. Israel.......jews.....seems like the same thing happened to them, doesn't it?
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They stole there land just like the europeans did in the past. At least the Palestinians have the courage to fight back.
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Terrorist equals muslim and vise versa. Sad but Americans (europeans) have always found someone or something to be scared of and degrade.
I want to say you seem to have a "blame the past and others for all problems" problem.
You appear to despise this country, and you want to blame the current citizens for it. You want to blame Israel for all the problems in the middle east. You want to say our country is a lie. Nothing is anyone's fault except for America and Israel (I will not go into your use of the n word as I feel you are tossing that in to create drama).
You, sir, are a person that will never be happy. Your insistence on blaming others for past events we cannot do anything about will ruin your opportunity for happiness. You will constantly say "okay, this is alright, but if it weren't for..."X", things would be better".
What is your solution for this country? Should we give it back to the native americans and everyone else move out? Would that make you happy? (no, it wouldn't. Plus, you would be leaving too - as you are not any more native than me, or anyone else born in this country).
Perhaps Israel should cease to exist. Would that make you happy?
And, as for you using the n word and in the context you used it, my guess is you support "slave reparations", right?
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The facts are one sided and ignore a plethora of information that proves them wrong. Just like the 9-11 was an inside job documentries.
Also I don't call arming young desperate men with bombs and having them walk on a crowded bus or cafe and killing themselves as well as innocent men, women and children COURAGE. It's cowardly and sick. Terrorist are people who kill innocent people to invoke fear or panic. They are not exclusive to Middle East Muslims and comparing the plight of Black men/women to people labeled as terrorists is stupid.
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These terrorist that you speak of dont have the money for your conventional war. They fight with what they have. Which is nothing but themselves. Im sure they are sorry that they cant afford to use missle and tanks to fight "fair". How disgusting is it to think that war has some sort of ethical code. Is that like colonials standing in a line shooting across from each other.
Seems like if they had enough money to fight the way you want them to then they wouldnt be called insurgents and terrorist. Oh no wait they call it Iran, North Korea, and Venezuala. But we wont be fighting them, america knows who to pick on.
And about 911 being an inside job.......
You can believe what you want but its a fact. How else would bush get americans to believe who the enemy was. Why else would we go to Iraq instead of Afganistan. The Democrats and Repulicans use 911 and terrorist to scare you into submission; the media rienforces this idea.
If your not like most americans then answer this basic science question.
What temp. does steel burn at? What temp. does Jet fuel burn at? And how much was burned on impact? And lastly Do you know why Building 7 came down that day?
Like most red white and blue americans you wont ask yourself nor respond to my question, and if you do respond it will be to call me some sort of crazy nut or something to that effect. Im waiting.....
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These terrorist that you speak of dont have the money for your conventional war. They fight with what they have. Which is nothing but themselves. Im sure they are sorry that they cant afford to use missle and tanks to fight "fair". How disgusting is it to think that war has some sort of ethical code. Is that like colonials standing in a line shooting across from each other.
Wow. Killing people on a bus, or in a restaurant is fine with you? I think you're just a touch "out there".
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And about 911 being an inside job.......
You can believe what you want but its a fact. How else would bush get americans to believe who the enemy was. Why else would we go to Iraq instead of Afganistan. The Democrats and Repulicans use 911 and terrorist to scare you into submission; the media rienforces this idea.
If your not like most americans then answer this basic science question.
What temp. does steel burn at? What temp. does Jet fuel burn at? And how much was burned on impact? And lastly Do you know why Building 7 came down that day?
Like most red white and blue americans you wont ask yourself nor respond to my question, and if you do respond it will be to call me some sort of crazy nut or something to that effect. Im waiting.....
Yup. That confirms it. You're out there, alright. It's unbelievable that people can even think this way. Rosie O'Donnel, is that you?
On a lighter note, I now know what you meant by "...our gov't. killing it's own people....".
Wowser. And you asked ME what planet I live on?  
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And lastly Do you know why Building 7 came down that day?
Because the collapse of the other two towers killing potentially tens of thousands of people wasn't enough? 
yebat' Putin
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These terrorist that you speak of dont have the money for your conventional war. They fight with what they have. Which is nothing but themselves.
Dude, they have boatloads of cash...mostly coming from the Saudis.
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And about 911 being an inside job.......
You can believe what you want but its a fact.
Fact, huh? 
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How else would bush get americans to believe who the enemy was.
Rhetoric and jingoism?
It's not hard to convince Americans to go to war. It's politicians and population is rather isolated.
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Palestinians have money? I can no longer even talk about this with people that wont even use logic to prove a point.
Iranians have money. Saudis have money. Islamic miltant groups dont. You know this yet you choose to deny the fact that this is there only means to fight. But America isnt going to invade a country with money and military.
If somebody came from Germany and kicked me off my land and put me on strip of what I used to own and I had nothing.....I would fight with what ever I had. Anyone would for that matter. You only choose to see things from your perspective that is the problem with colonial thinking.
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You only choose to see things from your perspective that is the problem with colonial thinking.
You're criticizing my thinking? The guy who says that is is a FACT that the United States government orchestrated 9/11?
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America isnt going to invade a country with money and military.
We do it all the time. We won't invade a country that we don't think we'll knock the snot out of.
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Iranians have money. Saudis have money. Islamic miltant groups dont.
Why don't you educate yourself before you make these rants. Islamic militant groups are funded as thugs for hire by America, Saudi Arabia, Iran and any nation that wants to subcontract their dirty work. They have tons of freaking money, bro.
The Palestinians? No, they're broke. They're also treated like animals.
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The Palestinians? No, they're broke. They're also treated like animals.
Especially by their "Muslim brothers".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would take the term 'especially' out, as it connotates mostly, and most of their woes come from Israel...but, yes, they get kicked from all sides.
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Like most red white and blue americans you wont ask yourself nor respond to my question, and if you do respond it will be to call me some sort of crazy nut or something to that effect. Im waiting.....
We don't have to say it. We all read your posts.
#gmstrong
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Where do you buy your tin foil hats?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Not sure what that means, but im sure it in some way to make -fun or degrade my thoughts on the subject.
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but im sure it in some way to make -fun or degrade my thoughts on the subject.
Yes, I'm sure you recognize that since you do the exact same thing to others.
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but im sure it in some way to make -fun or degrade my thoughts on the subject.
Yes, I'm sure you recognize that since you do the exact same thing to others.
No I dont I state the facts and ask for a logical rebutal. Noone on this board can challenge on the facts without trying make me sound as though something is wrong with me personally not that my view is incorrect (and state there point of view). Your noncompliance just proves your lack of knowledge and ignorance to the subject. Proves my point everytime.
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Your noncompliance just proves your lack of knowledge and ignorance to the subject.
Look up the word hypocrite. You fit the description nicely. And yes, I think your opinion is crazy, and certainly not worth the time of most people on this board. Have fun though!
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You only choose to see things from your perspective that is the problem with colonial thinking.
You're criticizing my thinking? The guy who says that is is a FACT that the United States government orchestrated 9/11?
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America isnt going to invade a country with money and military.
Sure Phil, that is why they use all of there money to buy tanks, jets, battleships, uniforms, advanced combat weapons..... No they just stock pile there money and what just blow themselves up cause lets guess....THERE CRAZY AND DERANGED. Or maybe its my personal faviorite.... THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOM.
You refuse to apply any thought to any of your rebutals. At least you gave some details about that point.
Regarding your point about 911... Oh wait you never stated any facts about the attack. You just made some sarcastic comment as though the idea of the government being involved is unconcivable and crazy.
State an actual fact and youll have my respect wether I agree or not. But you dont have one.
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What facts have you proven besides saying it's a fact and asking another member if they know why WTC 7 came down. Well I'll let Popular Mechanics answer it: WTC 7 Collapse Quote:
Claim: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."
FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.
According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
Link to Article Debunking all 9/11 Myths
________________________________________________________
You see Philly you want us to watch your video's, your documentaries, and listen you your claims. But you refuse to read the other side of the argument. The 9/11 Myths have be DEBUNKED. Deal with it.
As for terrorist killing little kids because Jews stole thier land. Well if you think that's admirable we can't discuss that situation because I find it appalling. If they chose military targets I'd give credence to thier cause.
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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im not a huge CT'er....but there's still some things that dont add up. what that means is where people differ....
evidence that available hasn't ruled out foul play, but then again, doesn't mean the gov't was involved. i certainly dont put it past the giv't to do it, but in reality, this administration is really too incompentant to pull something like that off.
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im not a huge CT'er....but there's still some things that dont add up. what that means is where people differ....
evidence that available hasn't ruled out foul play, but then again, doesn't mean the gov't was involved. i certainly dont put it past the giv't to do it, but in reality, this administration is really too incompentant to pull something like that off.
IDK, click the link above it pretty much covers all of the "9/11 was an inside job" stuff. If there is anything that isn't covered let me know.
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I think you're barking up the wrong tree with me here, man...read some of my posts.
The problem here is that you come off sounding like a lunatic -- you cite the government being responsible for 9/11 as FACT and no matter what anyone says you reply like the whole world is missing the big picture but you.
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BBC reported the collapse of WTC7 almost 30 minutes prior to the actual collapse. i didn't think much of it till BBC started backtracking to explain how it happened.
even if it was a controlled demolition to bring down an unsafe structure, thats fine. but the web of lying around the incident only begs more questions.
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That's a big problem. I'm a christian yet I don't want any part of Huckabee or Mitt. I really hope we see an Obama vs McCain/Rudy election.
I guess you really want Obama for president, then.
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SO 420, just what name did you post under when you were banned from this board the last time? and if you didn't get the tin foil hat joke, maybe they should put you back in the straight jacket 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Lately, I've tried hard to stay out of political threads.. but I read an article today that comes close to describing how I feel about Obama. I dont always agree with this writer but in this case I do. web page Obama's hope is misguided Thursday, January 17, 2008 3:20 AM By Jonah Goldberg I like Sen. Barack Obama. The Clintons, not so much. But the Clintons are right and Obama is wrong. Over the past week, the Obama camp has tried to suggest that the Clintons are somehow racist. Obama's staff sent out a memo compiling some quotes that allegedly demonstrate the "racial insensitivity" of Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign. The Obama folks are fanning the overreaction to her suggestion that President Lyndon B. Johnson was a more substantive agent of change on civil rights than the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. Obama is also fueling the flatly erroneous view that Bill Clinton called Obama's historic run as the first credible black presidential candidate a "fairy tale." Clinton used that phrase in reference to Obama's claim to have been consistently anti-war. However poorly the Clintons or their subalterns may have chosen their words, does anyone seriously believe the Clintons are racists? Anyone? Anyone? Of course not. And this points to the real reason Obama's candidacy is a fairy tale, and it has nothing to do with being black or opposing the war. It's because he's selling a dream. Obama's whole campaign is based on some of the most noble sentiments in political life: hope, togetherness, bipartisanship. As he proclaimed last February at a Democratic National Committee meeting: "There are those who don't believe in talking about hope. They say, 'Well, we want specifics, we want details, and we want white papers, and we want plans.' We've had a lot of plans, Democrats. What we've had is a shortage of hope. And over the next year, over the next two years, that will be my call to you." He's stayed true to that pledge. Not only does he talk about hope, he talks about the importance of talking about hope. He talks about how he hopes to talk more about talking about the importance of talking about hope. Hopefully. He touts unity the same way. If we all buy into his "message of hope," he explains, then everybody -- blacks and whites, men and women, Republicans and Democrats, lions and gnus, bears and park rangers, Superman and Lex Luthor -- will be united! But united toward what end, exactly? Or does it all boil down to being united about being hopeful and hopeful about being united? Obama's fairy tale is the idea that we can get beyond disagreement. But democracy is about disagreement. We have real arguments in this country, and the political arena exists for us to hash them out peacefully. Obama's post-partisan snake-oil promises to take the disagreement out of democracy. You can't do that. What if you disagree with Obama's ideas? Are you against hope? Given recent events, it seems that if you're not with the Obama program, you're fair game for tarring as a crypto-racist. And that's what Obama supporters are willing to say about the Clintons. I can barely scrape together two molecules of sympathy for the Clintons. They've been playing games with race for years, using the same tactics against their enemies that the Obamans are using on them. Unity around an issue -- war, health care, education -- is a legitimate appeal. But you can't defend America with hope; you can't heal people with unity. Further, it is morally antithetical to democratic values to demand unity for unity's sake. And it is quite literally impossible to govern that way. The irony is that liberals have been complaining for years that the GOP too often appeals to voters' patriotism, yet they don't object to Obama's appeal for unity. Idealistic unity for all Americans: Isn't that just a no-frills version of patriotism? So far, not even all Democrats have embraced Obama's gassy rhetoric of hope and togetherness, so there's no reason to suspect that Republicans and independents will rally around those themes during an Obama presidency, at least not for long. This is one area where I agree with New York Times columnist Paul Krugman. In his book The Conscience of a Liberal, he argues that progressives have one distinct set of priorities and conservatives have a very different set, so both have to be partisan if they want to get their way. There's no reason people can't be well-mannered and open-minded in their disagreements, but the more important priority is that both sides should give their views the strongest arguments they can and not give a fig about bipartisanship for its own sake. Agreement on that point is all the unity we need. Jonah Goldberg is editor at large of National Review Online. jonahscolumn@aol.com
SaintDawg™
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That's a pretty good read. I've stayed away from politics for a whike now but it is about time for me to educate myself. 
#gmstrong
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Same here. I'd like to be an educated voter.In the past few days, most of the newspapers that I see are discussing a possible recession. I'd like to hear specifics about eaxch candidates plans to handle this country, the economy, the wars everything. I'd like to know. Someone telling me they stand for hope without telling specifics kind of loses me.
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j/c Obama seems to be picking up some serious momentum. What's interesting is how much of this is all geared by the media. And the media is mainly fed by campaign propoganda. So you have McCain put the words 'Straight talk' on a bus, and next thing the talking heads are all discussing McCain's 'straight talk'. Read the immediate pressers from campaigns right away...ten minutes later you'll hear everyone gawking about it. After a debate, the campaign will release some rah-rah statements like "Hillary scored some big points on health care", and then some analyst will just repeat that ten minutes later. Obama is riding the crest of this wave right now...and it's interesting, because the right is sort of staring at their feet when his name comes up - they don't entirely dislike him (which began happening shortly after the media started talking about how the right didn't dislike him? Chicken or egg?)...why I find this interesting is because those who are into the politics of the matter should be seething. They wanted Hillary Clinton so bad...Hillary would've been an easy victory, and they were prepared for it. To be honest, I don't think anyone would have a huge problem with McCain if they knew he was running against Hillary. I also wonder if Obama will run into any Swift Boat type attacks...I imagine some of the more xenophobic stuff regarding Islam and such will rear it's head again come election time, and I think it will help him immensely. McCain is scrambling for his own base, but I think he'll come on much stronger once things get down to business...the right seems tolerable of Obama now but the fangs will come out around election time, and a McCain vote will most likely be cast. As things are going, I see Barack Obama being the next president. I don't see how the Dems run Hillary...then again, I don't see how they ran Kerry. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,831 |
Quote:
Yes, I do understand. When Mike Turner was our Senater, our area was
Problem being, I would venture to guess that it's a two way street and that both partys take advantage of such situations. This just happenned to be one that I was close to
Kinda late to this party but just wanted to point out...
Redistricting is everywhere and happens every 10 years when the census comes out. Whichever party is in charge gets to redraw the districts. The only limitation is gerrymandering which says that the districts were redrawn excessivly for a political advantage. Now this is extremely hard to prove and no party tries to get the other one on it because they're both doing it.
just my .02
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,365
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,365 |
Quote:
Obama seems to be picking up some serious momentum.
ANYBODY running against Billery who can't pick up momentum should be 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
At this point, Clinton's merely an afterthought...anything can change in an election season minute, but right now the guy's attracting Republicans.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
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evidence that available hasn't ruled out foul play, but then again, doesn't mean the gov't was involved. i certainly dont put it past the giv't to do it, but in reality, this administration is really too incompentant to pull something like that off.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 323
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 323 |
awsome and appropriate...
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,671
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,671 |
The beginning of the end of our Republic occurred when voting rights were extended to anyone who is a citizen and of legal age with no requirements for logic or literacy.
Claim that this is racially,gender based bigotry but get it right in that voting in America should require the ability for rational thought.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658 |
Quote:
The beginning of the end of our Republic occurred when voting rights were extended to anyone who is a citizen and of legal age with no requirements for logic or literacy.
In other words, from the first day of the republic?
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,671
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,671 |
Thanks for proving my point!
No sir...voting rights did not apply to all citizens of the colonies. Hell- women of this nation did not receive the right until last century.
Early on property owners were the electorate and while that is much too narrow a field...is it too much to expect your fellow citizens to be lierate and read and write English?
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Barack Obama
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