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Irish, I agree with you and I believe it can be done. I don't know why I'm being so optimistic but if the right moves are made, I believe we can compete for the division in "26 providing we also get decent QB play. With an improved OL Shedeur could be better or whomever we have at QB. Nobody could have been successful playing behind our line last season.
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Just stop already. The O is putrid. Jeudy looked good with better WR's around him. Yet another swing and a miss trying to land a #1 WR. The closest they came was Amari Cooper and even then he was available because Dallas made an upgrade to replace him. And at the very least you forgot to include QB on your list. You listed............ LT
C
RG
WR
MAYBE LG
Then another WR or TE or FB, depending on the formation. When you add QB to that list that's a total of 9 players needed on O. You were saying? That would be more than most GMs manage to do in their career If that were even close to true they weren't NFL GM's for very long. They surely never held that job on the same team for six years. You come up with a lot of good counterpoints on this board. This isn't one of them. We aren’t disagreeing that the O is putrid, we are disagreeing that it can’t make a huge leap this off season. I did bring up the QB, and said it would be dependent on who wins the starting job to utilize those additions. Presumably, imho, Sanders is the only one that could make a difference, but I have serious doubts about it. I more expect the QB addition to come in 2027. Still, Jeudy, Judkins, Fannin and Howard make 7 needs with the QB, not 8 without QB. Again, everyone needs to get used to the fact they are going to give Sanders every chance to win or lose the job. If Watson looks like the old Watson, that might upset the apple cart, but I highly doubt it. This is Sanders team to lose. They brought the kid into the facility on Monkens first day… he was the only player in the building and he was there to see Monken. Sanders is your QB for 2026… So we are back to needing 6 starters this off season: LT LG C RG WR And one of either WR, TE or RB depending on the formation. If Bitonio comes back, we are down to 5. It’s simple math, not rocket science.
Last edited by IrishDawg42; 03/06/26 08:10 PM.
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This is Sanders team to lose. They brought the kid into the facility on Monkens first day… he was the only player in the building and he was there to see Monken. Sanders is your QB for 2026… Just clipping this from the convo because I have a couple questions (for anyone, really). I can't argue with any of that. I really, really don't think Shedeur is "the one", but he's worked hard and improved. The NFL is ruthless, so me even implying he's "earned" anything is strictly fan talk; the league and this FO owe him nothing. And "improved" is not on the scale you would normally expect from a fQB. After an off-season, the bad habits we've made excuses for have to be way further in the rear view come TC. With all that said, I really don't see how this plays out when the players hit the practice field. If Shedeur is not handed the job, then others have a chance to compete. If others compete and look better, how is Shedeur a shoo-in? Now the real question... if Deshaun Watson is given any chance to compete, and looks the part, can anyone put lipstick on that pig (the situation) and say with a straight face "everything will work itself out"? This scenario sounds like a first-class $h*tshow, and I'm starting to think it's almost inevitable.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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The situation at quarterback can go in so many different directions at this point.
Monken made it clear. "Why wouldn't this be an open competition there is so little game film?"
Free agency and the draft will set up who will compete.
Murray, Gino Smith, Cousins, Willis are all vets that could be brought in.
They will also look hard at Ty Simpson.
If they trade back in the draft then 2027 comes into play as an option for a franchise guy in the future.
It all depends on what is decided by Berry and Monken.
There are plenty of options in consideration.
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I think the majority of fans at least have doubts about Shedeur. Most of us pretty much believe there has to be an upgrade coming in the very near future.
These are my thoughts:
Shedeur had a following like no other 5th rounder pick, maybe ever. Haslem would love to cash in on that IF Sanders can prove us all wrong. Hell, I would love it too because we would finally have a QB.
Anyone that has faith that Deshaun is going to wake up matured and ready to become the QB everyone thought they were getting is probably also going to be disappointed. I wish the guy would never show his face again… but there is a part of me that just wants to win some games and be relevant come playoff time. Regardless, if it’s him, we are looking at a QB in the 2017 draft. I have my huge doubts for one reason only, I think Watson is a piece of crap. I said it when the trade went down and he hasn’t done anything to change my mind. He quit on his team in Houston, he came out and said he didn’t want to go to Cleveland. $230M guaranteed changed his mind to live here temporarily, but it also gave him retirement money. He doesn’t care about the game and if he did get ANY inkling of guilt these last few years, that all went away when Haslem called him a Big swing and a miss. There is no way this guy is putting effort in for this team or owner. The only saving grace for Watson is that he is now playing for yet another contract. So, one of two things is going to happen in my mind. Either he won’t be a part of this open competition in reality and they do bring in another veteran in some small way or Watson could play now for that next contract. I think he’s content riding this season out to get healthy, then take on a veteran minimum price it year somewhere else in 2027 to try to get that final contract. Watson has no future here, I would rather stash him in a closet.
Richardson is intriguing in the fact I valued him as a mid rounder when he came out, he now has some experience and it will only take a mid rounder to see if Monken can do anything with him. I did have him rated higher than Sanders coming out of college, so I think it would be a better competition.
At the end of the day, I personally feel like this is an exercise in futility just to get us through the 2026 season so we can look for the next possible QB in 2027. Might as well have some fun with it and also build a team that will be ready for a good QB to step in and take it over.
Obviously in my opinion, there will be a minimum of 4 QBs available in the 2027 draft that are better than anything currently on the roster, or available via free agency, a trade or in the 2026 draft. There may be more than 4, but with today’s money they get in college, some may opt to stay and improve their draft position for 2028.
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Honestly, I don't care who plays QB for us I just want to win. I'd like to see DW in the rear-view mirror, but he is under contract for another year and if he gives us the best chance to win so be it. We all have to deal with things in life we don't like but sometimes you have no choice. Our beloved Browns may have too also.
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j/c
It's really remarkable that AB has survived the utter disaster that he had a huge hand in creating...while having more cash to spend then most GMs could only dream of. Let's overlook for the moment the fact that DW ended up being garbage....let's assume that he was just middle of the pack.
Look at what he would have around him. What was the plan to build around the quarter billion dollar man? The focus on AB's performance is always talked around the DW debacle. People decide to forgive him or hang him based on that trade and no one focuses on the overall roster that he has built since then.
Those willing to forgive and overlook the overall roster now tout his last draft...and he drafted some darn good players. But when you take a DT at #5 overall and a LB & RB at the top of the 2nd, you darn well BETTER have drafted a darn good DT/LB/RB. Premium picks on non-premium positions.
I want to see him draft a stud OT and WR. Those positions are difficult to project. I want to see him find a quality QB...all while appearing to at least have a plan for the other parts of the roster.
Six years in and I'm not holding my breath. I would actually debate you over the OVERALL ROSTER statement. QB room, I will fall on my sword, this debacle is a Haslem issue. Berry just had to deal with the fallout. If this was a Berry made situation, he would not still be employed. O-Line, this is probably where I "blame" Berry the most. He knew about the injuries, he knew about the ages and yet all at once we have a catastrophic issue that culminated in a horrible 2025 and desperate 2026 off season. WR, you can't say the guy hasn't tried. He has brought in draft picks (though he didn't have high draft picks at his disposal until last year thanks to Watson), trades and free agents. He's brought in Amari Cooper in his prime and Jerry Jeudy in his prime. I'm not entirely sure what else he could have done given circumstances. I will argue once again the influence of Watson. He has been injured pretty much his entire tenure here. So my question is, knowing this going into the past two seasons, would you have rather he didn't fortify the defense and draft offense last year with those first two picks? I think it ended up being wise to get the best bang for the buck with those two first rounders, rather than reaching for an offensive piece. Let's look at what that could have looked like: At #2 overall: Travis Hunter, He has already gone through an injury riddled season and designated a defensive player moving forward Will Campbell, He has already gone through an injury riddles season, then after his poor performance in the post season, there is much speculation he will be moved to guard to try to salvage him. At #5 overall: Ashton Jeanty, He averaged 3.7 ypc and had 5 TDs.. We got our RB in the second round and as a rookie he averaged 3.6 ypc and had 7 TDs... I'm ok Armond Membou, right tackle in the top ten. I'll give him props, he started every snap and only had 8 penalties called on him as a rookie. Other than that, I can't argue a RT over a DT in this pick Tet McMillan, Probably the best argument for missed opportunity, however, I would argue with Flacco/Gabriel/Sanders combo, he would not have been ORoY, Bryce Young enjoyed his best season as a Pro, but that actually could have been a product of drafting Tet... I argued for Tet McMillan last year and I have also said my piece on drafting Carnell Tate this year. Now let's look at #33: Carson Schwessinger is the reigning DRoY Missed out on Jayden Higgins.. that's where the list ends. Again, I'm good... #35 drafted Judkins, which again had similar numbers to Jeanty in a limited season due to "almost suspension", missed game 1 and injuries. I liked what I saw when he was i there despite the offensive line play. So, my argument lies in, where did Berry go wrong so far with this roster? We are good at TE, we are good at every position on defense. Again, under the notion that you can't fill every position with an All Pro... no team in history has done that. Can we improve some, what team can't? But, Berry has put this OVERALL ROSTER in a position to succeed in 2027, sooner if Sanders can make a huge leap this off season or if Watson decides to look like an NFL QB again. If neither step up, then we could be in position to get one of the QBs coming out in 2027, which it is my opinion there will be at least 4 worthy of early first round consideration. Much different than the past two drafts. I'm not posting with issues over the players AB selected in the last draft...my issue is that I'm not thinking he's turned the corner simply because he got it 'right' by selecting non-premium positions with premium picks. He picked the lowest hanging fruit he could find. You mentioned that AB has at least 'tried' to improve at WR. Sort of my point...he has tried and he has failed. We still have a room full of ??? The OL issues are glaringly obvious. The QB situation is worse. I don't have any faith that the guy who led us here is the guy to lead us out of here...and after six years of work.
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In six years he did manage to build one half of a team. So there's that. That would be more than most GMs manage to do in their career, if it were accurate.. It’s simple math, not rocket science. It is simple math. None of this discussion was about what "can be, might be or will be". My comment was based on what he accomplished to this point after all these years. Certainly one can project possibilities that may or may not happen moving forward as if that means anything. What you posted could have been said after any Browns season since he became GM. But that doesn't change where the Browns are at this present time after all these years he has had as the GM. This offense is trash and no amount of pontificating can change that. Where it does or doesn't go from here doesn't change the history of his tenure to date.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Berry had a good draft.
Did He?
We got some major contributions from the players drafted.
However, we enter camp with no idea who the QB will be.
Meanwhile the Giants and Saints may have found their franchise quarterbacks. Not sure of that yet but there is promise. Both teams start their seasons with their quarterback in place.
Jaxon Dart and Tylor Shough are going to begin year two after having solid rookie seasons.
Two quarterbacks the Browns could have selected. Here we are still looking.
If Sanders proves himself then all is good.
If not add another Berry failure to the list.
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Berry had a good draft.
However, we enter camp with no idea who the QB will be.
Meanwhile the Giants and Saints may have found their franchise quarterbacks. Not sure of that yet but there is promise. Both teams start their seasons with their quarterback in place.
Jaxon Dart and Tylor Shough are going to begin year two after having solid rookie seasons.
Two quarterbacks the Browns could have selected. Here we are still looking.
If Sanders proves himself then all is good.
If not add another Berry failure to the list. So, to sum it up. You would rather have Tyler Shough over Quinshon Judkins. It doesn’t matter if Judkins goes on to rush for 1300 yards and 13 TDs. If Shough starts every game, it was a failure of a draft? What if the Saints are looking for another QB in 2028? Will you reverse that opinion?
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Tyler Shough vs Shedeur Sanders head to head, just for fun
Shough played 9 games went 5-4 threw for 2384 yds, 67%comp., 10TDs and 6 INTs.
Sanders played 7 games went 3-4 through for 1400 yds, 56%comp., 7 TDs and 10 INTs.
I think this is more relevant to track. Let’s see what this matchup looks like in 2026.
Shough is clearly ahead as of today, as he should be as a 2nd round draft pick vs a 5th round draft pick.
If we are both drafting QBs in 2027, is that a draw or is Berry ahead of New Orleans GM?
Last edited by IrishDawg42; 03/08/26 04:19 AM.
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Tyler Shough vs Shedeur Sanders head to head, just for fun
Shough played 9 games went 5-4 threw for 2384 yds, 67%comp., 10TDs and 6 INTs.
Sanders played 7 games went 3-4 through for 1400 yds, 56%comp., 7 TDs and 10 INTs.
I think this is more relevant to track. Let’s see what this matchup looks like in 2026.
Shough is clearly ahead as of today, as he should be as a 2nd round draft pick vs a 5th round draft pick.
If we are both drafting QBs in 2027, is that a draw or is Berry ahead of New Orleans GM? All we can do is look at what has happened to this point. Those are the current facts. Everything looking forward is conjecture. I suppose Shedufus can end up with a better career than Tom Brady.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I thought I was clear.
"If".
If Dart and or Shough prove to be franchise quarterbacks and Sanders does not . I said it is too early but they are the starters based upon their rookie seasons.
I am sure you will not argue that a running back is not as valuable as a franchise QB.
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When all you have to hang your hat on is "what might happen in the future" that's all you can do.
When the present and past is posted there's no other option to respond with but hope. Because you sure as hell can't defend the present.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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In six years he did manage to build one half of a team. So there's that. That would be more than most GMs manage to do in their career, if it were accurate.. It’s simple math, not rocket science. It is simple math. None of this discussion was about what "can be, might be or will be". My comment was based on what he accomplished to this point after all these years. Certainly one can project possibilities that may or may not happen moving forward as if that means anything. What you posted could have been said after any Browns season since he became GM. But that doesn't change where the Browns are at this present time after all these years he has had as the GM. This offense is trash and no amount of pontificating can change that. Where it does or doesn't go from here doesn't change the history of his tenure to date. I somehow missed this. I don't think you want to discuss what he has done, you want to discuss the issues today and say he hasn't done anything to improve it. The offensive line was full of players when he arrived. Joel Bitonio may end up in the HOF. Jack Conklin was the premier RT when Berry arrived and continued to show that the first few years until injuries started to catch up with him. JC Tretter was a highly rated Center. He added Ethan Pocic to replace an aging Tretter, who had a great run at C, but has aged himself now. Wyatt Teller came in the year before Berry got here and has also been a highly rated player until he wasn't last year. Left Tackle is the void that he has failed at the most. He drafted Wills at #10 to fill that void in his first draft. He was a RT guy that never showed the ability of a LT in this league. He then went out and signed a proven guy in Cam Robinson last year as a bridge to something else, but he was past his prime. Again, it wasn't that he failed miserably, he came in and most of the line was already done for him. Then we went for 3 full seasons of not having any draft picks to address any needs, not just the O-Line, but any needs. 3 out of 5 years, he has been dealing with only trades and free agency to fill team needs. So, yeah, I'm going to get a little excited when the first time he has draft picks in 4 years he hits a grand slam. He drafted the best players on the board at the time he drafted and filled needs while doing so. He hasn't given me reason to believe he can't/won't do it again this year. As for GMs... most don't make it to their 6th year, so it IS an accurate statement. The ones that do are in the playoffs perennially. That is only a handful of teams. Andrew Berry is the 15th longest tenured GM in the league, that means 17 GMs have been here for a shorter amount of time. 13 GMs 4 years or less experience, wait, make that one less with Adofo-Mensah getting the boot this off-season. Once again, we aren't disagreeing this offense is trash. What we are disagreeing with is the extent of ammunition Berry has had to replenish the roster over a 3 year period. It is the classic case of overpaying a player and it affecting your roster. On (3) years, the entire offensive line got old. The defense had holes to fill as well. In one off-season, he managed to fill all the defensive holes. We don't have enough ammo to fill every offensive hole, but there should be enough to stop the water from gushing in through the bottom of the boat. It could be enough to get this offense into a mediocre stage rather than vying for the worst in the league. If that happens AND the defense stays at the top of the game with a regime change, they could sniff a playoff spot. There is not a chance in hell they will contend for a championship unless we are all very very wrong about Shedeur Sanders and he makes a bigger jump than any other QB in history. It is still why I would prefer a trade down if they aren't taking Carnell Tate at #6 to try to get a 2027 first round pick. We are going to need it to be in position to get one of the QBs in the draft.
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I think Berry hit a grand slam last year - I think his previous drafts, with or without a significant amount of capital, has been decidedly average. In some areas - WR and OL - he has been flat out bad.
One swallow does not a summer make - one outstanding draft does not make a competent GM. Especially when you look at the roster he inherited - and what it looks like today.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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I'll just re-iterate... Taking a body just to take a body doesn't work. We were desperate for a LT in 2020, so Jed Wills was drafted at #10. He was overdrafted, there wasn't another spot on the line for him to settle into, so he failed, miserably. I don't want to make the same mistake in 2026 because we need one so badly and the record shows Berry hasn't done his job in filling that LT position. I know Freeling tested well at the combine, but there is still a lot on film that says he may not end up being an average LT, let alone the one we are hoping for. Taking him at #6, I fear this panel will just show that as another reason Berry fails at his job.. Personally, I think Berry realizes that and he won't overdraft Freeling like he did Wills.
We will see what happens, but if he passes on Freeling and someone else desperate enough takes him a few spots down, I just implore you all to not call for Berry's job. Let it play out for a few years and see where Freeling's career is heading.
mgh88, draftees have a much larger fail rate after each round... For (3) years Berry only had ONE second round pick (in 2024). The other two years he began his drafts in the third round. Starting with that type of draft capital, average would be a win. If I'm being honest, I don't even think he was average over those (3) years. We would have to do a really deep dive to define average. I don't know how many starters the 2022-2024 drafts produced in rounds 3 and lower. It's easy to say we lost players because of him, but never even looking to see if there were any players to miss on is another endeavor that takes a lot of time to explore.
I would argue the roster is just as good, if not better today than it was in 2020. That is almost solely because of trades, free agency and the 2025 draft though.
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You are showing what he has done to "try" to improve it. The proof is in the pudding. You are what your record says you are.
Not having three first round draft picks was a self inflicted wound. It's not as if someone else was in charge as our GM. And you yourself have actually shown he came here with a top flight OL which has gone to hell.
The NFL doesn't hand out participation trophies. NFL stands for "Not For Long" if you don't win. Every GM in the NFL "tries". Those who do not succeed do not generally have their asses saved based on excuses.
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I'm more inclined to agree with you, but largely because we would have to try really hard to get the O to perform worse than last year.
Hopefully, the guy we just got can slot into RT and be a competent starter. Even that isn't a given, as we brought the dude over last year from Washington that was supposed to be competent and he was bad. Finding a competent LT in the draft isn't easy. Finding competent interior Olinemen isn't as hard as addressing the tackle positions (and we have guys already on the roster that should be able to contribute.
Doing all of that in one off-season is a VERY tall task. While that would go a long way to getting the offense back to relevance, we still have a LOT of work to do (WR and QB, two positions that we have historically struggled mightily to address).
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
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Browns place second-round tender on Ronnie Hickman - NBC Sports https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profo...ce-second-round-tender-on-ronnie-hickmanThe Browns have tendered restricted free agent Ronnie Hickman. Jeremy Fowler of ESPN reports the team has placed a second-round tender on the safety, paying him $5.8 million in 2026. The Browns will have the right to match any offer Hickman receives and will receive a second-round pick if they decline. In his first season as a full-time starter, Hickman totaled 107 tackles, two interceptions and seven pass breakups in 2025. Hickman, 24, has spent the past three seasons with the Browns. He has recorded 173 tackles, three interceptions and 11 pass breakups in his career.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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