|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,498
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,498 |
I feel better rolling the dice on Green. The other QB may be worth checking out, and a number of posters seem tp want that. I believe it would muddy the situation more. We haven't got the measure of that room under Monken yet. Not comparing apples to apples yet or anytime soon. Developing Green in two or three capacities that help the browns make sense and good use of his roster spot. If we take Sorsby(?) it feels like drawing to an inside straight (again). I am more comfortable picking him up if we "weed" the QB room or have a reliable sense of how he can work out. I will be clear: I feel no pressure to check him out, become part of this gambling taint, and import his baggage and issues on fans' sayso. MKC seems to want some QB controversy again, and annual failing.
Just say no. Cheap picks with problems are not bargains for the roster or the ;locker room chemistry. As I have stated before, I am not that curious. Given the flux in the current QB room I don't think we will take Sorsby, or at least with anything but a late pick....say 6th round. He has already missed enough time this year to make him useless for this season, not counting anything the NFL docks him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897 |
Well,itcan't hurt him to get on the jugs and catch. I would think it makes him a better sales target for trade bait. He wanted to show his stuff in Combine, so why not get paid for it. That hard talk better happen before cuts. I agree. I don't think we will be able to get him to the practice squad. . I’m curious why? No other team wanted him before the SIXTH round. These end of draft picks don’t always make a roster. Why do you think all of a sudden one of them would want to sign him to their 53 man roster without even working him out? They can’t sign a player off a practice squad to another practice squad, they have to sign him directly to their 53 man roster. If the Browns don’t see enough to have him on the 53, I just don’t think other teams would either at this point. If they aren’t going to sign him, don’t play him in the preseason.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,498
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,498 |
Well,itcan't hurt him to get on the jugs and catch. I would think it makes him a better sales target for trade bait. He wanted to show his stuff in Combine, so why not get paid for it. That hard talk better happen before cuts. I agree. I don't think we will be able to get him to the practice squad. . I’m curious why? No other team wanted him before the SIXTH round. These end of draft picks don’t always make a roster. Why do you think all of a sudden one of them would want to sign him to their 53 man roster without even working him out? They can’t sign a player off a practice squad to another practice squad, they have to sign him directly to their 53 man roster. If the Browns don’t see enough to have him on the 53, I just don’t think other teams would either at this point. If they aren’t going to sign him, don’t play him in the preseason. The player has to clear waivers before he can be placed on the practice squad. He can be signed as a FA. I guess we will find out if we try to move him off the roster at cut downs.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897 |
Well,itcan't hurt him to get on the jugs and catch. I would think it makes him a better sales target for trade bait. He wanted to show his stuff in Combine, so why not get paid for it. That hard talk better happen before cuts. I agree. I don't think we will be able to get him to the practice squad. . I’m curious why? No other team wanted him before the SIXTH round. These end of draft picks don’t always make a roster. Why do you think all of a sudden one of them would want to sign him to their 53 man roster without even working him out? They can’t sign a player off a practice squad to another practice squad, they have to sign him directly to their 53 man roster. If the Browns don’t see enough to have him on the 53, I just don’t think other teams would either at this point. If they aren’t going to sign him, don’t play him in the preseason. The player has to clear waivers before he can be placed on the practice squad. He can be signed as a FA. I guess we will find out if we try to move him off the roster at cut downs. Exactly, a team would have to sign him to the 53 man roster. If they didn’t want him after 6 rounds, who is going to replace one of the slots with a QB that the Browns don’t even want on the 53?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,395
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,395 |
Any team who wants a gadget QB and who is thin at the bottom of their roster.... or, any team that decides they want to try him at WR, or KR. He's in the NFL now; if we waive him, any team can claim him off waivers for free and they then own his rights. Green would have to refuse to sign any contract for the full season to get free of that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,088
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,088 |
Taylen Green-6-6/227...
Posted a record-breaking 2026 NFL Combine performance:
...43.5" Vertical Jump
...11'2" Broad Jump
...4.36 40-yd
...all the best marks by a QB since 2003
...posted an Athleticism Score of 97
IMO, it would be a foolish risk for the Browns management to attempt to place Green on waivers...he would be claimed in a heart beat.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,395
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,395 |
Agreed, and I feel there is absolutely zero chance of it happening.
Unless he is a complete flop and implodes, he is on the roster. We drafted him to develop him - or to see if he can be developed, I guess.
If tons of work and lots of coaching can help him improve his throwing/accuracy, the kid will have a legit chance to be something. is athleticism buys him the ticket to stay and will almost certainly ensure that he gets on the field for some gadget plays this year (think Lamar's early days).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897 |
Taylen Green-6-6/227...
Posted a record-breaking 2026 NFL Combine performance:
...43.5" Vertical Jump
...11'2" Broad Jump
...4.36 40-yd
...all the best marks by a QB since 2003
...posted an Athleticism Score of 97
IMO, it would be a foolish risk for the Browns management to attempt to place Green on waivers...he would be claimed in a heart beat.
If the Colts cut Deion Burks, would it be foolish not to claim him? One of the best performers of the combine overall, taken in the 7th round.... I think some people are reading way too much into combine statistics. If he's a QB, he's a QB and is usually taken way higher than he should have been. He was passed by every team for 5 full rounds. That tells me no one really thinks much of him as a QB. Any team who wants a gadget QB and who is thin at the bottom of their roster.... or, any team that decides they want to try him at WR, or KR. He's in the NFL now; if we waive him, any team can claim him off waivers for free and they then own his rights. Green would have to refuse to sign any contract for the full season to get free of that. This is the NFL, if roster spots were plenty, everyone would have a gadget QB on the roster. As it is, until they made a new rule for emergency QBs, NO ONE carried (3) QBs on the roster. Ask yourself why that is and it will explain why I feel he might not make this roster. How many teams that are "thin" at any position is going to use that spot on a gadget QB? For the record, he can't just refuse to sign with the new team. He has already signed his rookie contract, so any team that wants to claim him will get him at the 6th round rookie deal he has already signed. If he refuses to play, he is most likely out of the league for good.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,498
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,498 |
College has players designated as athlete. I look at Green that way. Plus, I see his future as something other than QB...
I don't know that you are talking about. If he gets waived by the Browns, he is a free agent without an NFL contract. At that point every team in the league could offer him a contract with him free to sign with anybody he wants and negotiate any terms he wants.
It is much like UDFA players. You see some signed with a signing bonus. That means other teams were trying to sign the guy so teams started bidding above any beyond standard rookie deals.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897 |
College has players designated as athlete. I look at Green that way. Plus, I see his future as something other than QB...
I don't know that you are talking about. If he gets waived by the Browns, he is a free agent without an NFL contract. At that point every team in the league could offer him a contract with him free to sign with anybody he wants and negotiate any terms he wants.
It is much like UDFA players. You see some signed with a signing bonus. That means other teams were trying to sign the guy so teams started bidding above any beyond standard rookie deals. No, he is only a free agent after he clears waivers. If he is claimed on waivers, the team that claims him assumes his current contract and MUST put him on their 53 man roster. If he clears waivers, the Browns will be responsible for the guaranteed portion of the rookie contract, and also can then sign him to the practice squad if they both agree. He can also decide to sign with a different teams practice squad if he clears waivers, but once he signs to the Browns practice squad, another team would also have to sign him to the 53 man roster, they can't just move him to their practice squad. Clear as mud?? At the end of the day, I am sure he will understand he has the best chance at a 53 man roster spot on the Browns practice squad eventually in 2026. He still has the best opportunity to grow and not only make a roster, but play, by staying with the Browns. I think the only way the Browns would lose him is if someone claimed him off waivers, which I don't think will happen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,088
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,088 |
I think some people are reading way too much into combine statistics.[/b] [b] iris...the combine numbers are simply a tool that can be used to judge a players athletic ability.
Clearly Green's combine numbers say something about the young man that caught Monken's eye.
Given Monken's recent coaching history prior to being named the Browns HC...
...Monken was the Ravens OC and his QB was Lamar Jackson (2023–2025)
...Monken should know how to judge the potential of "dual threat" qbs
...hopefully Green has the ability to learn and progress
...I trust the judgement of Monken and his staff..!
Those who use combine numbers to judge the individual posting the numbers are focusing on the wrong subject matter, imo..!
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699 |
If you're going to try and factor things in. Factor in they felt safe leaving him on the draft board until the sixth round and a sixth round investment was all they were willing to make for him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897 |
If you're going to try and factor things in. Factor in they felt safe leaving him on the draft board until the sixth round and a sixth round investment was all they were willing to make for him. Exactly! Not just a 6th round pick either, the NINTH of Ten draft picks. He wasn't just ignored through 5 rounds, the Browns ignored him 8 times before pulling the trigger. That's 8 players that probably have a better chance to make the final roster. IF he came in like a bolt of lightening, he would be getting reps in camp. Since the vets arrived, he has received zero reps in 7 on 7 or 11 on 11. That's telling also. Maybe they are just trying to hide him from the world, but I don't think it is that simple.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699 |
I think he fits the mold of "gadget QB" well in an emergency QB role the way Taysom Hill did for the Saints if he can be developed enough. But I see that more as a possible ceiling than I do the floor.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897 |
I think he fits the mold of "gadget QB" well in an emergency QB role the way Taysom Hill did for the Saints if he can be developed enough. But I see that more as a possible ceiling than I do the floor. Hill is part of the Saints 48 game day roster. The emergency QB dresses, but does absolutely nothing unless the medical team deems both QBs out for the game. He would have to take one of the 48 spots on game day to be used as a gadget QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699 |
I get that. I meant his role at the QB position as it would pertain to his play.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,498
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,498 |
You are confusing players already on the practice squad and those who are cut before or at the final cutdowns.
I agree. He keeps the signing bonus and there is a per diem for time spent with the team through camp. I doubt he has any guarantees above and beyond that. I also agree that if he clears waivers, we could sign him back to the practice squad. He can also elect to sign elsewhere.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 897 |
You are confusing players already on the practice squad and those who are cut before or at the final cutdowns.
I agree. He keeps the signing bonus and there is a per diem for time spent with the team through camp. I doubt he has any guarantees above and beyond that. I also agree that if he clears waivers, we could sign him back to the practice squad. He can also elect to sign elsewhere. I'm not the one confused, you are the one that said if he is waived he is a free agent with no NFL contract... That is inaccurate. During the waiver process, his contract follows him to the new team if they claim him off waivers. There is no negotiating, nor can he refuse to "sign a contract". He already signed the contract, he would just be playing on another team. The rest would come if he clears waivers...THEN he becomes a free agent and can sign anywhere he pleases to the 53 man or the practice squad. Once he signs to a practice squad he can't be taken by another team for their practice squad, he would have to be signed to the 53 man roster. It's cut and dry, there isn't any confusion..
Last edited by IrishDawg42; 06/24/26 03:15 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,395
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,395 |
If you're going to try and factor things in. Factor in they felt safe leaving him on the draft board until the sixth round and a sixth round investment was all they were willing to make for him. Now you also have to factor in that they weren't willing to wait for the 7th round or to wait and hope to just get him as an UDFA. They spent a pick when they did to ensure they got him because they felt there was a very real likelihood they would not get him otherwise.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699 |
Yes they did. All full well knowing that a 6th round QB selection in the draft has close to a zero percent chance of ever becoming a starter. We both know any sixth round draft pick is not a good bet to pay off well. And least of all a QB selected in the sixth round.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,567
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,567 |
Lately I have been playing around with google's AI Gemini.
If you ask for specific analytical data. You get it.
So, I asked to rank the 2027 quarterback class using all the possible available data.
Dante Moore (Oregon)
Julian Sayin (Ohio State)
John Mateer (Oklahoma) — Adjusted for Healthy Baseline
Arch Manning (Texas)
Darian Mensah (Miami)
C.J. Carr (Notre Dame)
Trinidad Chambliss (Ole Miss)
Jayden Maiava (USC)
*At first Mateer was not listed in the top eight until I asked to factor in his numbers and adjust to before and after he broke the thumb on his throwing hand.
Interesting. One stat that carries heavy emphasis is throwing under pressure.
I doubt that this will be the order that ends being drafted.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,567
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,567 |
Analytic criterion:
Conversation with Gemini
Evaluating quarterback prospects through data analytics has drastically evolved over the last decade. NFL front offices have largely moved away from "box score scouting" (like total passing yards or college wins) because those stats are heavily inflated by a team’s scheme or the quality of their wide receivers.
Today, analytics departments use predictive, isolated metrics—numbers that measure how a quarterback performs when the design of the play breaks down, or how much value they generate relative to what an "average" quarterback would do in the exact same situation.
The modern NFL analytics criteria for evaluating draft prospects and predicting their potential to succeed is ranked below, from most influential/predictive to least predictive.
The NFL Analytics QB Evaluation Hierarchy
1. Advanced Efficiency & Value Metrics
These are the gold standards because they correlate most strongly with future NFL success. They measure efficiency on a per-play basis rather than total volume.
EPA per Play (Expected Points Added): Measures how much a quarterback’s actions increase his team's chances of scoring on a given play. For example, a 5-yard pass on 3rd-and-4 has a massive positive EPA, while a 5-yard pass on 3rd-and-10 has a negative EPA. Teams look at how a college QB's EPA translates against high-level defenses.
CPOE (Completion Percentage Over Expected): Using tracking data, artificial intelligence calculates the probability of a pass being completed based on receiver separation, pass rush distance, and depth of throw. CPOE isolates a quarterback's actual accuracy from how "wide open" his college coach schemed the receiver.
NFL.com
2. Situational Splitting (The "Noise Filters")
Analytics departments will take a quarterback's total profile and strip away the easy plays to see how they perform when the playing field is leveled.
Performance Under Pressure: How does the QB perform when the pocket collapses? Passing efficiency clean-pocket metrics can be fluky, but a quarterback who maintains a stable EPA and low turnover rate under pressure is highly coveted.
Performance Outside the Structure (Off-Platform): This tracks what happens when the primary scripted play fails. Front offices track EPA on plays lasting longer than 4 seconds, where the QB must create with their legs or throw on the move.
True Scramble Rate: Teams look for a collegiate scramble rate of 7% or higher when the pocket breaks. A quarterback who can manipulate the pocket and gain first downs with his legs provides a stable analytical "floor" for an offense.
Jets X-Factor
3. Deep Ball Aggression & Volatility
Modern data has shown that being too safe in college is actually an analytical red flag for the NFL.
Deep Pass Attempt Rate: Analytics reveal that first-round quarterbacks who succeed in the NFL almost always threw deep (20+ air yards) on at least 15% of their college dropbacks. This is highly predictive because it proves a quarterback has the confidence, arm strength, and cognitive processing to attack professional-style vertical windows.
Jets X-Factor
Turnover-Worthy Throw Rate (TWT): Tracked by data companies like PFF, this replaces raw interceptions (which can be caused by dropped passes or lucky deflections). Fascinatingly, data shows a slight positive correlation with NFL success if a college QB had a TWT rate above 3%—it means they were willing to test tight windows rather than just throwing safe checkdowns to superior college athletes.
Jets X-Factor
+ 1
4. Adjusted Traditional Passing Metrics
If teams look at standard box scores, they radically adjust them using specific mathematical weights to penalize negative plays properly.
ANY/A (Adjusted Net Yards per Pass Attempt): Far more predictive than standard passing yards. The formula heavily weights touchdowns and strictly penalizes interceptions and sacks:
ANY/A=
Attempts+Sacks
Passing Yards+(20×TDs)−(45×INTs)−Sack Yards
Collegiate Career Completion Percentage: While scheme-dependent, historical models show that quarterbacks who fail to hit a 60% baseline over their college careers face an incredibly steep statistical uphill battle to find accuracy in the faster NFL.
5. Physical & Performance Thresholds
These are treated as baseline filters rather than linear predictors. Once a quarterback clears the minimum threshold, additional points don't necessarily equal more success.
Age and Sample Size (Experience): Analytics models favor "young breakout" players (e.g., a 20-year-old dominating college) over 24-year-old "super-seniors" who took five years to break out against younger college competition.
Height & Weight Thresholds: While historical baselines required a QB to be 6'2"+, modern analytics have relaxed this due to outliers like Kyler Murray or Bryce Young. However, height remains a minor statistically significant baseline in regression models to ensure clear vision over NFL offensive lines.
The Scouting Combine (Athletic Testing): Things like the 40-yard dash or vertical jump carry the lowest predictive weight for standard quarterback success. While a fast 40-time is great for a dual-threat asset, it has almost zero statistical correlation with a prospect's ability to operate successfully from the pocket in the NFL.
The Analytical Takeaway: If an NFL front office is building a predictive draft model today, they weigh a quarterback's EPA/CPOE composite, their deep-ball intent, and their efficiency under pressure far above their physical size, 40-time, or raw college win-loss record.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 363
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 363 |
Yes they did. All full well knowing that a 6th round QB selection in the draft has close to a zero percent chance of ever becoming a starter. We both know any sixth round draft pick is not a good bet to pay off well. And least of all a QB selected in the sixth round. 2022: Brock Purdy (Round 7, 262nd Overall - 49ers) 2018: Gardner Minshew (Round 6, 178th Overall - Jaguars)2012: Russell Wilson (Round 3, 75th Overall - Seahawks) , Kirk Cousins (Round 4, 102nd Overall - Commanders)2010: Tyrod Taylor (Round 6, 180th Overall - Ravens) 2004: Matt Cassel (Round 7, 230th Overall - Patriots)2001: Marc Bulger (Round 6, 168th Overall - Saints) 2000: Tom Brady (Round 6, 199th Overall - Patriots)1998: Matt Hasselbeck (Round 6, 187th Overall - Packers)1992: Brad Johnson (Round 9, 227th Overall - Vikings)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,699 |
Posting exceptions to the rule does not change the rule.
You included Russell Wilson who was a third rounder, Kirk Cousins who was a 4th rounder and had to reach all the way back to the 1990's to even find names that do fit actual 6th round selections. You even included Purdy who was not a 6th round selection either just to try and increase your list. Here are the actual results of 6th round QB draft picks since Brady was drafted in 2000......
6th round backup selection from the 6th round.
Perennial Backups some of which were stop gap starters.....
1. Tyrod Taylor
2. Gardner Minshew
3. Tanner McKee
4. Derek Anderson
5. Bruce Gradkowski
6. Riley Leonard
6th round Clipboard Holders
7. Jeff Driskel
8. Jim Sorgi
9. Jordan Palmer
10. Curtis Painter
11. Zach Mettenberger
12. David Fales
13. Garrett Gilbert
14. Joe Webb
15. Ryan Lindley
16. Brandon Allen
17. JT O’Sullivan
18. Joe Milton
19. Sam Ehlinger
20. Jake Luton
21. Drew Henson
22. Brooks Bollinger
23. Nate Sudfeld
24. Kliff Kingsbury
25. Luke Falk
26. Rusty Smith
27. Brad Kaaya.....Never Played (No Regular-Season NFL Snaps)
28. Jake Rudock
29. Keith Null
30. Tony Pike
31. Tom Brandstater
32. Colt Brennan
33. Josh Harris
34. Dan LeFevour
35. Tajh Boyd
36. Keith Wenning
37. Josh Booty
38. Andre Woodson
39. Jeff Smoker
40. Trace McSorley
41. Josh Heupel
42. Reggie McNeal
43. Mike Teel
44. Steve Bellisari
45. Andy Hall
46. Devin Leary
47. Tanner Lee.....##Too Soon
48. Will Howard
49. Cam Miller
50. Graham Mertz
51. Kyle McCord
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk NFL Draft 2026 Pick #182 Arkansas QB Taylen Green
|
|
