How important is winning the turnover battle in the NFL?
Teams simply can't afford turnovers and it shows in their win percentages. Since 2020, just three teams boasting a negative turnover differential have a .500 record or better and just barely. Those three are the Eagles (-1), 49ers (-2), and Dolphins (-1), all just below the threshold.
The correlation is about as strong it gets with as many variables as NFL games consist of. The Bills, for instance, rank second in both win % and turnover differential. It's a fairly tried and true test. When looking at the Jacksonville Jaguars, the team ranks 30th in win % (0.314) and 31st in turnover differential (-41) over the last half decade.
How important is winning the turnover battle in the NFL?
Teams simply can't afford turnovers and it shows in their win percentages. Since 2020, just three teams boasting a negative turnover differential have a .500 record or better and just barely. Those three are the Eagles (-1), 49ers (-2), and Dolphins (-1), all just below the threshold.
The correlation is about as strong it gets with as many variables as NFL games consist of. The Bills, for instance, rank second in both win % and turnover differential. It's a fairly tried and true test. When looking at the Jacksonville Jaguars, the team ranks 30th in win % (0.314) and 31st in turnover differential (-41) over the last half decade.
His college tape shows he has the arm to push the ball down the field. What he doesn't do is force the ball down the filed leading to int's.
If you're an "NFL QB coming out of college" you're not sitting there in the fifth round either..
Dillon Gabriel has no future as an NFL QB. Sanders may not either, but he has an arm. He has more size and has more ability. Gabriel might make a good coach someday.
Did you say something about arm strength? I told you to watch this. But rather than do that you just kept droning on spreading the "Dillon Gabriel has no arm strength" BS .......
But I understand how being a smart QB who takes what the defense gives instead of throwing int's may be confusing you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Did you say something about arm strength? I told you to watch this. But rather than do that you just kept droning on spreading the "Dillon Gabriel has no arm strength" BS .......
But I understand how being a smart QB who takes what the defense gives instead of throwing int's may be confusing you.
I watched him play last year. It was terrible. Defenses did not respect him. He either could not, would not, or could not see the field to throw down field. He has no future in the NFL and in 1 month the Browns will make that obvious. You may be disappointed then like I was when he was drafted.
So Sanders had the vision but threw more picks than td's but the reason Dillon only threw two int's is because he couldn't see the field? Here's a news flash for you. The one you claim can't see the field is the one who should have been throwing the int's. Not the one who could see the field. If what you just posted is true then the one who can see the field has pizz poor decision making skills.
Neither of these two have what it takes to be a franchise QB. But claiming one is superior to the other is fools gold. Often times your perception is not the reality.
So after watching that highlight reel are you still saying Dillon doesn't have the arm? Or did you even bother to look at the actual evidence before spewing more BS? Because you sure switched directions away from that pretty fast.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So Sanders had the vision but threw more picks than td's but the reason Dillon only threw two int's is because he couldn't see the field? Here's a news flash for you. The one you claim can't see the field is the one who should have been throwing the int's. Not the one who could see the field. If what you just posted is true then the one who can see the field has pizz poor decision making skills.
Neither of these two have what it takes to be a franchise QB. But claiming one is superior to the other is fools gold. Often times your perception is not the reality.
So after watching that highlight reel are you still saying Dillon doesn't have the arm? Or did you even bother to look at the actual evidence before spewing more BS? Because you sure switched directions away from that pretty fast.
Sanders more than likely is not a franchise QB. But he offers more hope because he wants to push the ball down field. He has to improve his decision making or he will be joining Gabriel as ex NFL players really quickly. Sanders looked down field and he threw the ball down field. He was involved with 7 of the Browns 10 longest plays from scrimmage last year. The hope is if he can make plays and reduce the turnovers maybe the Browns find something in him. Gabriel can come in and throw 5-yard dinks and dunks and the Browns go 3 and out over and over and over again. But he does not turn the ball over. I want a QB that at least offers hope or a glimpse of hope. Gabriel offers none!!!
Pushing the ball down the field and forcing the ball down the field are not the same thing. Forcing the ball down the field leads to int's. And as you have been shown, turning the ball over loses games. It doesn't win them. If your version of hope is getting your azz kicked in the turnover battle, your version of hope is very different than mine.
He was also involved in 10 it's last season. Given the improvement in the OL personnel and WR's Gabriel too can push the ball down their field. Just because he wasn't willing to throw a bunch of int's doesn't mean he can't do it.
Did you bother to watch the video yet or no? Because it sure doesn't sound like it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Pushing the ball down the field and forcing the ball down the field are not the same thing. Forcing the ball down the field leads to int's. And as you have been shown, turning the ball over loses games. It doesn't win them. If your version of hope is getting your azz kicked in the turnover battle, your version of hope is very different than mine.
He was also involved in 10 it's last season. Given the improvement in the OL personnel and WR's Gabriel too can push the ball down their field. Just because he wasn't willing to throw a bunch of int's doesn't mean he can't do it.
Did you bother to watch the video yet or no? Because it sure doesn't sound like it.
As For Sanders INTs.. It wasn't from forcing the ball down field. When Shedeur pushed the ball downfield last year, for the most part, it was very positive.
Breakdown of Sanders picks: Ravens - He was hit as he threw it, bad decision, should have taken a sack Raiders - He was trying to hit the guy underneath 7 yards past the LOS, bad read on the defense Titans - Again, threw the ball while he was being tackled (this was the worst pattern) Bears #1 - Batted up at LOS Bears #2 - This was the only one you could say he forced down field.. albeit, it was only 25 yards down field, but bad placement I'll give you this one Bears #3 - Bad read, 17 yards down field Bills #1 - Batted at LOS Bills #2 - short 5 yard out, bad throw Steelers #1 - Hit as he threw, caught at the LOS Steelers #2 - Threw up for grabs 18 yards down field
He actually had more control the more he concentrated down field. Once he comes off that read, he struggles fitting it in short yardage. I think that can be fixed.
Gabriel, likewise, threw an interception against Pats 7 yards past LOS, bad throw, but his second one was classic forcing the ball 45 yards down field.
Out of all 12 INTs, Gabriel's was the only true forced ball down field INT. Sanders could have been argued, but worse yet, they both took a lot of sacks. They need to improve pocket presence and get through their reads faster.
I watched him play last year. It was terrible. Defenses did not respect him. He either could not, would not, or could not see the field to throw down field. He has no future in the NFL and in 1 month the Browns will make that obvious. You may be disappointed then like I was when he was drafted.
Nobody could see the field well while laying on their backside. 5"10 or 6"5 is the same height while looking up and laying flat. That goes for all 3 guys who ran for their life last year.
Pushing the ball down the field and forcing the ball down the field are not the same thing. Forcing the ball down the field leads to int's. And as you have been shown, turning the ball over loses games. It doesn't win them. If your version of hope is getting your azz kicked in the turnover battle, your version of hope is very different than mine.
He was also involved in 10 it's last season. Given the improvement in the OL personnel and WR's Gabriel too can push the ball down their field. Just because he wasn't willing to throw a bunch of int's doesn't mean he can't do it.
Did you bother to watch the video yet or no? Because it sure doesn't sound like it.
Yes, Pit I watched the video. You are right he is Brett Farve. What an arm!!!! I've seen him play he is too small, can't throw down the field, can't see down the field. All of the above.
Like most things Browns-QB-related there is so much more to the story than what meets the eye...who were the opponents...who was on the OL...who were the WRs...when did Judkins go down...how far along in the offense was the entire team.
I don't know if DG will be a real NFL QB...but I do know this...people whose opinions I value on such matters are all in lockstep that DG's arm strength is not an issue. His lack of size "can" be an issue but most NFL throws are to a spot and not on a guy...that's where the size issue comes in. Can he get the ball over the line...on time...to the right spot. Essentially, more things around him have to be "better" due to his size.
I was disappointed when they drafted him...especially where they drafted him...but my recollection of his play was that there was little difference between him and SS. I don't understand why DG now is an afterthought.
Given that they were obviously WILLING to draft SS...I'd prefer they just took SS where they took DG. Then it'd be DW, SS and TG and a 5th Rd flyer from last year. Still a poor room. I expect they will trade DG for a pick swap in '27...essentially throwing away yet-another 3rd Rd pick.
So you don't see trying to force the ball down the field while being hit the same way as I do? I also don't see 17 and 18 yard pass attempts as short passes.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion but forcing something down the field happens when you shouldn't be trying to pass the ball and while intermediate passes aren't long passes, they are certainly downfield passes not of the dink and dunk variety.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Yes, Pit I watched the video. You are right he is Brett Farve. What an arm!!!! I've seen him play he is too small, can't throw down the field, can't see down the field. All of the above.
I get it. You even refuse to believe video evidence when it stares you right in the face. None are so blind as those who refuse to see.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Gabriel's stats were just as good. In fact his td to into ratio was MUCH better. Sanders had 7 td. passes with 10 int's. Grabriel had 7 td. passes and 2 int's. It's hard to win games if you keep handing the ball to your opponent.
Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Gabriel's stats were just as good. In fact his td to into ratio was MUCH better. Sanders had 7 td. passes with 10 int's. Grabriel had 7 td. passes and 2 int's. It's hard to win games if you keep handing the ball to your opponent.
Gabriel was not an NFL QB coming out of college. He does not possess an NFL caliber arm. He is under sized. It all shown last season when he played. He dinked and dunked and did not and probably could not push the ball down the field. Sanders was not great, but he pushed the ball down the field which shows more promise than Gabriel. While his stats did not look terrible his play was much worse than Sanders. Dink and dunk will not cut it in the NFL. Gabriel will be unemployed in a few weeks unless Stefanski still sees something in him.
The question is whether any of them has enough capacity to play well enough so that we can score enough points…
If not, then we’ll probably have to expect a similar outcome as last season.
IMO if DG was a few inches taller, we'd be seriously considering him being our starting QB.
Get that man some elevator shoes...
Seriously, if there was a player that "other than their height being 5'11"' was a bona fide starter in the league, there are ways to remedy that situation. It might take a little getting used to, but I am sure Nike or New Balance or SOMEONE would find the technology to make the "feel" the same as regular shoes.
Irish, if a shoe company could add a few inches to a person's height and comfortably, they would add millions to their profits and I'm not just talking athletes. I know many people that would like to be taller!! LOL!!
He is not in the mix. In fact he might be traded. I think they want Green as their 3rd string guy because they could have packages for him in certain situations.
DW and SS will split the first team reps. IMO both will play in pre-season games.
It's go time. By the end of August we will have a starter.
I am not in doom and gloom or giddy with excitement.
My attitude is "let it all happen."
After they play four or so regular games I think we will have a good idea of what we have.
I find myself rooting for Monken. Guys like him don't often get this chance. I wish him well.
Something tells me Green mysteriously finds his way on IR by the end of training camp!
I doubt that. I think Monken is licking his lips thinking of the trick plays he can use Green in.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Reports say Watson was not good for most of the day today. Not saying Sanders is much better, but I'm tired of the Watson thing
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
Irish, if a shoe company could add a few inches to a person's height and comfortably, they would add millions to their profits and I'm not just talking athletes. I know many people that would like to be taller!! LOL!!
They’re out there. The difference is, women don’t mind “the lie” and want their legs to look “fit” as they are flexing their toes into heels.
Men realize when they get home, they still can’t reach the top shelf. What’s the point?
Now if they would use this science in sports… dang, it could change the trajectory of some careers.
Reports say Watson was not good for most of the day today. Not saying Sanders is much better, but I'm tired of the Watson thing
I’m ready for Watson to pull a hammy and end this “competition”. At the same time I watched a clip of Samders throwing the ball into a non moving arm at the LOS for a batted ball. Player and arm never moved and Shedeur couldn’t find his way around it…
Let’s just say I’m worried that we are all going to be talking about which QB we want in October this year.
Yep. He's showing he can hit all targets; moving and non-moving. Also showing he's a great teammate, spreading the ball around to both sides of the roster. Tomorrow he'll jump off the bench and tackle the punt returner.
Exactly. I don’t have a crystal ball but from everything i’ve seen he’s a mediocre QB at best and if he wants to continue his career it will probably be as a backup. Too much wear and tear on him with all the injuries not to mention all the mental stress he’s had to deal with.
If Watson is named the starter, he must be heads and shoulders better than Sanders. If the competition is close the coaches and FO will want the younger player to play. Just for potential of the future. The FO won't come out and say it but they have to be hoping Sanders wins the job for the same reason. With that said if they do name Watson the starter that will tell everyone what they really think of Sanders and his future as QB.
We all can’t wait until he’s gone. I want us to win every game possible but I would like to see Shedeur play to see what we have. By all accounts he’s been diligent in his work and making progress. He’s young and has a chance to develop. Give him a fair chance to succeed. DW can be the backup until he’s gone. Unfortunately, because of Watsons contract DG might be the odd man out. I’d rather keep him for a backup.
I don't know that he will be a "different QB". Much like you and many others I don't see him turning things around at this point and you covered the reasons why pretty well.
Yet at the same time I won't underestimate what a huge motivating factor that money creates. Injuries at this point considering his past few seasons looms large.
But he has been sitting back collecting checks on a guaranteed contract with no financial motivation to push himself. He didn't want to be here to start with.
At his age I could see him believing he could still get one last decent contract in the NFL if he preforms well. If not he would get a fraction of the money as strictly a back-up signing.
That is a huge motivating factor for him to consider. I believe that's all that could possibly motivate him. I mean after all, that's the only reason he came here in the first place. He crossed Cleveland off his list before they backed up the Brinks truck. In watson I don't see a player who loves or is dedicated to the game. For him it's all about the Benjamins. And all of those Benjamins are depending on his play this year.
I don't believe any player performs well without the motivation to do so. I'm not trying to say he will play well. I'm not saying that will magically cause him to turn things around. I'm saying that of anything can, it's the money.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Watson will have to sandbag it for it to be close. Watson's bad day is superior to Sanders' good day.... and I hate to say that because I hate Watson being here more than I hate that we drafted Sanders.
As for Gabriel, he has plenty enough arm, he just isn't that prototypical Allen or Vick flick-the-wrist-and-it-goes-60-yds kind of arm. He is every bit comparable to Baker, and that is plenty good enough with a quality supporting cast and competent offense.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Deshaun Watson is universally positioned as the betting favorite to take the first snap for the Cleveland Browns in Week 1, leading across major sportsbooks and decentralized prediction markets alike. Because standard sportsbooks list these specialized training camp battles under fluctuating "special props" packages, the broader betting ecosystem mirrors the primary consensus lines set by Las Vegas oddsmakers (-215 to -196) and regulatory prediction boards (61% to 85%).
The current market consensus for Deshaun Watson to be named the Week 1 starter breaks down across 10 platforms:
I don't know that he will be a "different QB". Much like you and many others I don't see him turning things around at this point and you covered the reasons why pretty well.
Yet at the same time I won't underestimate what a huge motivating factor that money creates. Injuries at this point considering his past few seasons looms large.
But he has been sitting back collecting checks on a guaranteed contract with no financial motivation to push himself. He didn't want to be here to start with.
At his age I could see him believing he could still get one last decent contract in the NFL if he preforms well. If not he would get a fraction of the money as strictly a back-up signing.
That is a huge motivating factor for him to consider. I believe that's all that could possibly motivate him. I mean after all, that's the only reason he came here in the first place. He crossed Cleveland off his list before they backed up the Brinks truck. In watson I don't see a player who loves or is dedicated to the game. For him it's all about the Benjamins. And all of those Benjamins are depending on his play this year.
I don't believe any player performs well without the motivation to do so. I'm not trying to say he will play well. I'm not saying that will magically cause him to turn things around. I'm saying that of anything can, it's the money.
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Watson will have to sandbag it for it to be close. Watson's bad day is superior to Sanders' good day.... and I hate to say that because I hate Watson being here more than I hate that we drafted Sanders.
As for Gabriel, he has plenty enough arm, he just isn't that prototypical Allen or Vick flick-the-wrist-and-it-goes-60-yds kind of arm. He is every bit comparable to Baker, and that is plenty good enough with a quality supporting cast and competent offense.
I think these go together...
First question that needs answered, Does Watson even still have the qualities to succeed? If not, PPE.. you might be living in a time machine. DW had a couple of good years in Houston, but he has not had a single good day as a Brown. So to say his worst day is better than SS is pretty short sided. It's definitely based on the past.
Now, to Pit's point, I agree with him. Money is a motivational part of his DNA. IF he still has it, the next contract will motivate him enough to bring it back with a vengeance for that 2027 contract he will be looking for.
That is what preseason is here for.. does he still have the tools to succeed. We should know pretty fast. It isn't that he needs to learn it, he just needs to be able to access it. If he can't, he needs to hit the bench or be the #3 emergency QB. The money is spent, it doesn't do anything for Cleveland past 2026, so every other option needs to be used if he doesn't look like the franchise guy they traded for VERY EARLY in the preseason.
I see him being relegated to the bench and signing with the Panthers in the off season on a one year prove it deal.
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