DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Watson vs Sanders?

I really wish there were an extra metric that separated time to throw from time to throw on script. It can be very misleading since it accounts for everything through the end of the play.

If I scramble around for ten seconds and take a 20 yard sack, my "time to throw" was ten seconds. Hell, from that standpoint, I could have one of the most porous O-Lines in the league and it would look like they were Pro Bowlers giving me all the time in the world.

Don't get me wrong, I know all these things average out over hundreds of snaps, this one's still one of those Paul Harvey stats... you may need to seek and find "the rest of the story".

Sanders best quality appears to be his work ethic ... But the question remains has he worked hard enough and does he poses the actual ability to be a good QB?

It may not matter ... if the QB race is even remotely close. Start Sanders.

Watson, to me, has had a game and a half out of 19 opportunities in a Browns Uni and played well. Out of the 19 opportunities - and without looking up stats - I'd say he had maybe 3 games where he stunk as bad as any QB I remember watching play for CLE. He had another 4 or 5 really really bad games where he was incompetent ... 6 or 7 flat out very bad games. He had a couple/few games merely looking bad. I see no benefit to running out that guy to play at a "merely look bad" level or worse. I'd rather give Gabriel or Sanders the opportunity to learn even if they stink at times.

An extra 2 wins in a rebuilding season doesn't help the team enough... and I struggle to see how the Watson we've seen play for the Browns makes even a 2 game difference to the win total.

I am at the point of not caring. It's like choosing between Chuck Frye or Brandon Weeden. After this season we will draft a QB who will in short order be the #1 QB for at least 2.5 seasons. At that point we will know if we have our guy or another dud.

Ditto, right down to every word and period.

There will be obvious hope that it lasts more than 2.5 years, but besides hope.. Yeah, same...

I can understand those sentiments - with one exception. Let's accept or assume or propose that starting Watson because of his experience is likely to result in 2 more wins this season. And instead of a top 7 pick we are picking 12th. Do you care then?

I hate the idea of tanking - I disagree with the idea of tanking. But given that one of the choices is an aging QB with controversy still attached to his name, the other choices are younger and at least have the veneer of having potential ... makes zero sense to start DW.

No doubt the hope is the new guy lasts for a decade or more. I am just saying that if we draft a QB and use a high pick, or picks to draft him, he will get at least 2.5 years before we try someone else.

I understand your sentiments as well. I am not sure Monken buys in to that. I'll even say I don't think he does.

You know I think you're right about Monken. And maybe that should be the end of the conversation? >>> But then we're only giving our opinions as fans.... which is all we ever can do.

If we wanted to just tank this season why not just keep Stefanski?

My opinion of DW's play is based on his time here, not anything he did in Houston (which I was also unimpressed with - I am on record stating on here that he was a product of what he had around him and was nothing overly special himself).


I *still* see DW's bad days better than Sanders' good days because Sanders is less than good.

No, I don't. They made their bed, what ever happens with the draft is what happens with the draft.

If we can win 7 games instead of 5, I want to win 7 games. If we can win 10 games and get a playoff game, that's what I want to do. For me the season is irrelevant to the draft, it's two different entities. Once we actually know where we are drafting, we can start talking strategy on how to get to the spot we need to be to have a higher percentage chance of getting a higher percentage QB. I do believe there are going to be at least 5 QBs in the 2027 draft that have a much higher percentage of success expectation than most of the drafts over the past ten years. That doesn't mean there isn't one or two QBs in that span that weren't expected to be successful at a higher rate than all 5 of these QBs, but it is an anomaly that there will be that many in the same draft. Saying that, there is no formula to pick which one will ultimately be better than the other. So, even if we tanked and got the #1 overall pick, it doesn't mean that one of the other players will not end up better than the one we would take at #1 overall.

That is why I don't worry about the draft spot during the current season. Get the wins and have fun while we can.

My thought process still moves towards, if Shedeur can't beat out Watson, we need a QB in the draft... The ONLY way I won't covet a QB in the 2027 draft is if Sanders beats all other QBs, wins the job, looks the part and wins games. IF he can manage to do all that, then we have a winning season, a QB of the future and all of this is a moot point.

I really don't think it matters. Not on that sliding scale, anyway. Nothing other than a full-on tank ensures we get our QB by normal means. So, whether we're 7 or 12, we're spending both 1st round assets to get our guy if he's there at the top of the first. We've ensured we're in a position to do that regardless of our record this year.

Even if he is the named starter he would have to play lights out to not draft a QB towards the top of next years draft. I think the best realistic expectation is if he plays well enough he may be the backup or traded moving forward into next season. I don't see him or his daddy accepting him moving forward as the backup without some pushback. That could put the Browns in the position of feeling the need to trade him next year. Possibly even before the trade deadline this year.

QB injuries on other teams may make trading him before the trade deadline more beneficial. This is all very speculative moving forward.

I mentioned a trade option during camp/preseason. May be worth more to a desperate partner before he has shown his stuff. Some posters are giving him a ton of credit now. I have a scenario that I think might be real for this roster. SS may be named as starter, depth chart and all. Plays poorly. Not the brilliant QB we hoped for. And he plays or regrind the merry-go- round "so we can see what we have."
What i see as possible is our "winner" is the man who won the room. But he is not NFL game winner material. Whips us but loses to strangers. Draft again. Hope somebody emerges, but it may be somebody who cuts your throat in the clutch. I want to see some tight football myself.

Shedeur Sanders provides the fans the only real hope that 2026 in avoiding yet another long season of bad NFL football. Does he have the ability to be a long-term franchise QB. Probably not. I think his ceiling is around Baker Mayfield in talent. Baker has a stronger arm and Sanders is more accurate. Both are only around 6'1 and decent athletes. The Browns decided after 2021 they could not win a Super Bowl with Baker and even if Sanders plays well, they will eventually come to that same conclusion. If he plays bad or is beaten out by Watson, the Browns are either going to be in position to draft a QB or use tremendous draft capital to draft a QB in 2027. I think Sanders would have to lead the Browns to 10+ wins and the playoffs to get the Browns off their plans to draft a 2027 QB.

Hmmm, shall I drive my Yugo or my Pinto to work today…

The answer is NO to either…

I'm posting the probability of the Browns NOT drafting a QB in the first round of the 2027 draft at 10%.

I think we will have more questions than answers at the conclusion of preseason and we will be asking for the loser of this battle by week 5.

As much as I WANT Sanders to have the talent to make me think we are good at the position moving forward, my brain tells me there is a very low chance of that being the case.

I agree we have nothing to really gain playing DW, except wins.. I would sacrifice wins for not having to see Watson in a Browns uniform ever again, but I know the coaching staff doesn't feel the same way, so, I am resigned to think the more likely scenario is Watson starting UNLESS they are all in on evaluating Sanders in game situations instead of in winning mode.

Selfishly, I want to just hand the job to Sanders and watch him sink or swim for 17 games.

However, realistically, how many first round QBs look like starters their second season? The cards are stacked against Shedeur. I really don't think it helps that Deion is running around training camp. He needs to head to Boulder and worry about his season ahead.

Shedeur needs no extra distractions...

Sanders completion percentage in 2025.... 56.6%

Baker's completion percentage in 2025...... 63.2%

Baker's career percentage completion rate is just slightly higher at 63.5.

Sanders td verses int's in 2025....... 7 td's and 10 ints.

Bakers td's verses int's in 2025...... 26 td's and 11 int's.

Who did you say was more accurate between the two again?

It feels like Watson just isn't good (not shocking news to anyone). The question is: does Sanders give us a better chance to win right now?

DOTD commentary about Baker is pure comedy.

I agree. The idea of losing "on purpose" is repulsive and I believe most of your team knows when it happens. If you want to retain your best players and eliminate future "trade me" press conferences, you just can't do that. Also, draft picks aren't sure things no matter how high. Yes, I know all about the odds if you are a QB in the top 5, but to keep credibility with your team you can't start a player, especially a QB, who you truly don't think gives you the best chance to win.

Accuracy is not completion percentage. It is not did the ball go to the correct receiver. Accuracy is did the QB throw the ball where they attended. Somehow actually have clue when you post. Passing accuracy is Sanders best trait. It does not mean he made the correct read. It does not mean did he force the throw. All it means is he has an accurate arm. Baker played a few years in Cleveland, and he throws quite a few high throws that is not accuracy.

All I am saying is IMO if Sanders plays to his highest level possible. I do not know if he will. But his highest possible level is his ceiling and that is about Baker level and the Browns let Baker go. The Browns correctly determined they could never win a super bowl with Baker. Where they went wrong is determining that Watson was the QB to win a super bowl with. Sanders provides the most hope in 2026 but if he somehow reaches his full potential, it is no better than what they had in Baker. Baker is an average at best NFL QB that the Browns reached for in 2018 and 9 years later we are still paying the price for that reach.

I was reminiscing about the Kardic Kids of 1980. Actually, tried to remember the 12 days of Cleveland Browns Christmas Song, or something like that!

I got to thinking there are a lot of similarities between players in the song and this year's team. As a fun exercise, I put together a list. The biggest difference is that Coach Rutigliano had added a few more veterans to the mix.

HC: Sam Rutgliana - Todd Monkin;
QB: Brian Sipe – Shedeur Sanders;
RB: Mike and Greg Pruitt – Quinshon Judkins and Dylan Sampson;
OT: Doug Dieken – Spencer Fano;
LB: Clay Matthews – Carson Schwesinger;
WR: Reggie Rucker and Dave Logan – Denzel Boston, Jerry Jeudy, KC Concepcion, and Isaiah Bond;
DE: Lyle Alzado – Jared Verse;
DT: Jerry Wilkinson – Mason Graham;
CB: Thom Darden – Denzel Ward;
TE: Ozzie Newsome – Harold Fannin Jr.;
K: Don Cockroft – Andre Szmyt;

For those who don't know, the 1980 Kardic Kids came after a long, well, not as long as this era, span of bad football. Brian Sipe was a late-round drafted QB. He competed for a few years with Mike Phipps for the starting QB job. He finally won the job. The Browns added a few veterans, and everything fell into place. Expectations at the beginning of the season were low. It seemed like every game had to be won with a late-ending drive or two, maybe three! Thus, the name Kardic Kids!

Hopefully, I put a positive spin on the start of this season! Go Browns!

12 Days of Cleveland Browns Christmas:

Michael Stanley: Here we go again:

12 Days of Cleveland Browns Christmas:

Michael Stanley: "Here we go again:"

You are entitled to your opinion. But that's all it is. Are you trying to say that when Sanders played last season he wasn't playing to "his highest level possible"? So you saying he was more accurate wasn't actually true.

So now it's if he reaches his highest possible ceiling. Those are not the same thing.

Here's your problem. All 32 NFL teams determined that his potential as an NFL QB left him sitting on the draft bard into the fifth round. Are you really trying to suggest that teams who actually felt he had the potential of being like Baker Mayfield left him sitting on the draft board in round 5?

What was it you said? Oh yeah... "Somehow actually have clue when you post."