DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus The Dems... again

Newsome policies burnt down a whole community in LA. What a concept having water in hydrants. Who would have thought that might be needed.

Show me state policies Newsom put in place that "burnt down a whole community in LA."?

Just puking out words on a screen doesn't show any evidence that supports them.

Newsome is a politician - he is going to play politics. Name me a Republican or a Democrat that doesn't or wouldn't.

You presented Row as something above and beyond politics - I disagreed. I didn't try to act like it is worse or better than Newsome playing politics. Just saying I don't see his post a shining light of neutrality and impartiality. I see a carefully crafted and loaded post.

I started reading the second post - he's cherry picking what some people said in response to his post, and he he'd countered those and and framing it in a way to show he's right and they were wrong (and no doubt in every example he picked he was right). Again smart - but not overly impressive to me. You or Memphis or Bull could cherry pick some of the dumbest posts by 'lefties' on Dawgtalkers and create a long essay about "what the left are saying" and highlight how wrong and stupid those comments are/were. It would not mean that's the overwhelming sentiment by Democrats or left leaning centrists. There's dumb and extreme people on both sides (all sides) picking the dumbest and debating with them publicly, or posting videos of them - and very often trying to present them as evidence of what "the other side are all like" ... is not helpful.

Here, I'll make this easier, so you don't have to play the kill the messenger, rando, cherry-picking-extremist vibe.

Do you find it troublesome that Newsom (or any D) is willing to back and campaign for "socialists" that want to:


Dismantle capitalism
End free markets
End representative government
Eliminate property rights
Eliminate borders
Defund police
Eliminate prisons
Rewrite the Constitution
Abolish the Senate
Abolish the Presidency

???

Also, (and this is one of the biggest reasons I shared his posts) do you find it troublesome (or at least desperately immature) that anyone that complains about any democratic office holder, candidate or policy is automatically an "Ultra-MAGA Trumpster"?

Never mind. Don't answer that last one. 🤣

Mike Rowe is not middle ground politically speaking. He is and always has been a conservative. Not the stupid Trumpian stupid faux conservative but an old time conservative.

All those "policies" are bad. Although the constitution is open to amendments - which depending on how you frame it could be defined as rewriting/retooling it.

As to your last comment - this is the rub. It's no more or less troubling that anyone who questions about a democratic office holder is labelled MAGA - asit is that anyone who is on the left of center with MILDLY socialist opinions centered around, say, healthcare or Trans rights or whatever ... is labelled a communist.

If you want a list of things that are troubling - it's a long list. For example - I probably find the above examples far less troubling than the fact that right wing racist organizations overwhelmingly vote and support for Trump. I find it troubling that Trump is closer to Putin than he is to traditional Western allies. I find it troubling that for the first time ever the USA has voted with Russia and North Korea against other western allies in the UN. I find it troubling that Trump's obvious mental decline is given a free pass while Biden's was not (and I said early on Biden should NEVER have run for a second term - way before things got really bad) . . . the list is long. And if you want some 'balance' - as has been touched on in this thread, I find it troubling that the Democratic party and (ancient) leadership have no platform and don't stand for anything.

Why worry about labels now? Conservatives have been labeled as fascist for the last 12 years.

I do see real communists being elected or at least nominated, so I can't help but think if you don't put it down, you are a part of the movement.

Lets quit pretending, we are at the beginnings of a split. We aren't United States anymore. We are the Fractured States of America. I don't like to say that but one has to be realistic. We aren't going to convince each other to change from their point of view to the other, and when I say we I am not talking just about you, I and a few others. I am talking in the big picture.

Divorce can be ugly and this one looks like it will be ugly.

I love Mike Rowe for the same reasons you do.

Kinda going back to our productive (albeit brief) conversation, I think people are missing this whole DSA hubbub for what it is. On the larger scale (meaning I'm not arguing that there aren't people out there who want to bring Karl Marx communism to the US... I'm just arguing that the numbers of those people isn't large enough to worry about), the surge in support for DSA is a message to the establishment that they need to get their heads out of their butts. I have the same thing to say about these DSA elections as I do about someone as unlikeable as DJT winning what is essentially a popularity contest against the DNC's candidate. DNC needs to hear what voters are telling them.

What is going to happen when DNC establishment refuses to listen? I don't know, but we're probably going to find out. I have zero confidence in their ability to do their jobs the way it was intended (public servant).

I'm really starting to think establishment dems are just playing the waiting game. Watching and waiting through this election cycle, carefully plotting through the midterms. They don't want to show they're a party in turmoil as the (R)s are saying they are. So, they give generic answers and hide under the "big tent", while carefully avoiding all convo about socialism and communism with catchphrase strategy. "Well, if ________, is so bad, then call me a socialist."

With that said, I'll be honest, I'm generally interested in how a lot of these true progressives shake out if elected. There are plenty of fresh ideas. They're not all terrible and they're not all communism. When you say: "I have zero confidence in their ability to do their jobs the way it was intended (public servant)." We're going to see a rash of progressives coming in and doing their job the way it was intended, whether we like the policies or not. That in and of itself is both refreshing and a threat... to both sides of the establishment.

They're like the new guy that shows up on the job with a gleam in his eye like he's going to change the world. There is no pleasing his co-workers. They'll roll their eyes; they'll call him names behind his back. They'll complain to management if he does anything outside the box. And eventually, one day, someone will pull him aside and say "Hey, I know you're new here and you think you have all the answers, but we've worked a long time to make our own jobs easy. We don't need someone showing us up, raising the bar on production or running around trying to fix everything."


Establishment puppets on both sides come in to occupy a seat and kiss enough a$$ to move to the next level. These people come in with an actual agenda. It's only a matter of time before people see who's doing the hard work. But these candidates that are willing to check boxes on some of the crazy ideas I've mentioned in this thread? They won't last long.

So, in my eyes, I see a party that's split along multiple lines. On one hand, you have traditional dems that are afraid to embrace the progressive agenda... then within the progressives, you have those who's language teeters on communism. And they're the ones with the megaphones; they're the tail wagging the dog. And the whole reason this is turning into a $h*tshow is because they're the entire reason the establish dems are leery of embracing the "progressive agenda".

So, it's not really about the numbers, in my eyes. That's why I think focusing on how many people are card-carrying members of the DSA is silly. You laid it out perfectly in your post, it's a warning to the rest of the party that the "crazy kids" aren't going away without a fight.

The DNC? They'll keep their distance from the far left... and work overtime to groom any of the more centered progressives that enter the fold. jmo.

Sorry for the book.

I still find it amazing how one party will follow their leader no matter what he says or does. No matter his crazy rants. No matter his convictions and court rulings. That's the very sheep mentality they used to say was a symptom of the other side. They do the exact thing you claim the other side should do. If they don't follow the leader, spew them out. If they don't play follow the leader, shout them down. Don't allow anyone to deviate from the "new" status quo.

They sat by and followed someone who is in no way conservative, who is in no way Christian and is in no way like anything they supported before. They allowed this man to take over their own party.

Now they're acting like if the same thing happens on the other side that's some new thing? The same thing happened to your party just a decade ago. And we haven't seen you calling out any of it.

I don't like the President and the way he acts much of the time but I agree with probably 90% of the administration policy and in the end that is all I really care about.

I liked President Carter but felt his policy was failed. I didn't like President Clinton all that much but over time felt his policy was pretty sound.