DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Democracy indicators in US at lowest levels for 50 years, data shows

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/sep/15/us-democracy-indicators-lowest-for-50-years

Probably time to shoot the messenger rather than pay attention to what they say.

Sounds like they think Biden led the charge. Someone better get their marching orders straight.

"Casas-Zamora said it was clear that events in the US influenced other countries. International Idea added the US to its list of “backsliding” democracies for the first time in 2021, pointing to a “visible deterioration” it said began in 2019."

At least Australia is spending more resources fighting racism. Looks like democracy is doing great there.

Go Kangaroos.

I find your complaining about not paying attention to what people say because of who they are ironic. I posted this in the mail in ballot thread not very long ago: link

I left that thread after my last post, there is no real honest attempt at a conversation there, each party has said the same thing 4 or 5 times at least... possibly a whole lot more. Dead horse beaten savagely to death.

I find your rush to judgement and your attempt to pigeonhole others in this instance to be little more than an effort to score points — more of a "gotcha" statement than an argument of substance. (this is intended to be light hearted humor rather than starting a fight)

It's hard to have an honest conversation when one side is unwilling to reconsider their beliefs because they think those beliefs are facts.

Sometimes one has to try to say the same thing 4 or 5 different ways before it gets through to someone that doesn't want to accept a possibility. Uncertainty is uncomfortable, but it can be more honest than a hard held feeling of certainty.

I don't really see the humor in your attempt, but I'll grant the possibility that it is your intention.

I agree with the headline of the article. I just think overly focusing on Trump is the wrong approach to fixing it. I think the problems go deeper.

Which isn't an accurate reflection of the conversation at all. But you're good at framing your response to try to make it look the way you want as opposed to how it is.


I agree with this completely.

1. My having to try to overcome the Dunning-Kruger effect may make it seem that way to you. I think many people overestimate their ability to "know" "how it is." To me, it appears people give more credence to the conclusions formed based upon limited data than is truly warranted. Yes, you can make the claim that there is lots of data, but compared to all the data their could be it may not be as much as it may seem in the grand scheme of things.

Also, from your response there it appears you take my framing as how I want things to be, when really I'm trying to frame them as how they could be. Quite frequently that is not how I want them to be. Yet, assuming that you know that something is absolutely a particular way with only limited data troubles me. While I think your position could be true, I don't know that it is true. Even if there's only a 20% (or lower) chance that it is wrong, the ramifications of what happens if it is wrong seem worth trying to be sure.

To a degree, my approach is more philosophical while yours seems to be more assumptive (?.) (Most people do approach most things assumptively, but I feel some topics deserve a more rigorous approach.) A google search of "philosophical approach to knowledge vs assumptive approach" pulled up a comparison that seems useful/informative but the formatting won't transfer cleanly to the board.

I do tend to be didactic and not everyone likes that. It seems many people actively dislike it. But, I am the way I am.

The USA is not a Democracy.

You realise that there is democracy within a constitutional federal republic ? You're tired old troupe about the USA is not a Democracy based on word play is not appropriate here.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias where people with low ability, skill, or knowledge in a specific subject overestimate their own competence.

Once again you just can't help yourself yet you refuse to see it. Or maybe you don't. It's hard to tell anymore.

Why respond to that post at all? It's trolling and he's desperately trying to crowbar a different conversation from a different post into this one.

As for assumptions and an "assumptive approach" - his post is absolutely full of them right from the first first antagonistic sentence that's clearly designed as a partially veiled insult. You fight with him if you want to - I'll recognise that as his posts become more insulting and antagonistic, he recognises he's lost the discussion or is simply trolling or possibly both.

He just makes it so easy to point out his hypocrisy that I find him at least mildly entertaining. It's cheap entertainment for sure but entertaining none the less. But that's generally the way things turn out when someone convinces themselves that they're the smartest guy in the room.

Yes, that's the Dunning-Kruger effect. I'm not the one that constantly expresses certainty. Expressing doubt is admitting limited knowledge. On the other hand, expressing certainty with limited knowledge indicates overestimating one's competence.

I'm not the one that refuses to see things. I choose not to fixate on things that you want to focus on because there are other things to see and consider. I look at things from the perspective of what don't I know. You seem to always operate from the perspective of believing that you know all that you need to know.

Don't get me wrong, I have my biases. But this one isn't my modus operandi.

I'm certain about the facts that are known. I'm not the one projecting anything and everything regardless of substance about anything I can imagine to create based solely on speculation.

I'll leave that part up to you since that seems to be your specialty.

That's a statement that someone with a severe case of Dunning-Kruger would say.


No, you do seem to fairly often be the one projecting things that you imagine to be certain while actually largely speculating.


Please do leave it up to me because then there'd be a lot fewer of your posts to try to wade through. I don't confuse my speculation with facts.

The fact you and a few others spend more time on here coming after a random poster with no power or influence rather than the POTUS who says far more damaging things on a daily basis, wields his power and influence to rule by decree while circumventing congress, attacks, does anything in his power to damage and seek revenge against his political opponents and is attacking societal norms says more about you and those others than any reply I could use in response.

You priorities seem to be misguided.