DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Looking Back: Browns 12 Jets 17 Post Game Discussion....

3 & 2.

Dewand Jones would be better if he just fell down at the line. Has zero ability to move.

How we played today shouldn’t surprise anybody. Same old same old.

same letdown down game against a winnable opponent...Browns let the media get to their heads and got too cocky

The Browns always seem to play down to the level of competition of the bad teams they play against. Today was definitely no exception.

- Vegas had this game pegged. The underlying metrics all favored the Jets and bad football finally caught up with the Browns.

- The special teams were not complementary.

- Bond doesn't do it for me. I put him in the replaceable category.

- Browns have had a hard time getting Fannin involved in this offense.

- Quincy Williams wanted to win. Bad.

We'll see how this team bounces back at home next week against the Ravens.

Offensive line lost the game for us, and we missed our two defensive tackles. We’re still better that most of us thought we would be, but the playoff talk can hold for now. This was not on Watson.

Monken's play calls rival that of Stefanski when he was here. One of these years we will actually get a great Offensive Coordinator who can put together an solid game plan and consistently call great plays especially in important situations.

Bond dropping 3 balls and 2 on important 3rd down conversions is inexcusable. Our tackles are trash. Our Oline coach does not know how to prepare his guys and put them into the right positions. How may times today did rushers come in completely untouched? 5-6?

Watson had an OK game but still will get happy feet the millisecond when he sees a rush. The constant shotgun is horrible for our running game and it shows. Not getting Fannin involved early and often was a huge mistake.

Defense played very well other than the first quarter. They gave the Offense every opportunity to win the game. Play calling after the Defense getting multiple turnovers was absolutely pathetic. Ward had a rough game. Williams balled out. He's been a great pickup. Verse is seemingly like more of a rotational player. Glad we got high draft picks for him.

I knew we would lose this game all week honestly. It was the biggest letdown game coming, along with the weather ... and then we lose KC early and it felt like Boston was our only shot to make a play

I'm highly concerned about the OL (obviously) and Judkins (he seems SOOO slow). The run game is like invisible.

The drops are highly concerning too - Bond blew an opportunity to be a hero today

Man that offensive line is pathetic, doesn't look any better than last years.

Bond is scared to go over the middle, at least that is how it looked to me. He usually doesn't make those drops when he's the outside guy.

And Bojo has to catch that snap, yes it was high but went right thorugh his hands.


Can't blame Watson for this one.

Just disappointed.

Jones is a sled.

I am as well, but trying to not hang my head too much.

I figured we would be 1-4 right now with this game being our only win.lol

Last week we were as good as we could be this week we were as bad !
Just remember we are still capable of winning 3 in a row again
Now let’s talk game analytics they stopped Boston
Now let’s scheme him open against ravens then web would be 1 game up in the loss column on roadkill and Stoolers.

I agree on Bond. I think I would rather see floriea activated, if he is even still on the PS. I am starting to feel that way about Judkins. He has no patience or vision. He just runs in to the line no matter if there is a hole or not.

Watson once again put us in a position to win, then we recover a fumble and do nothing. Three plays used up 9 seconds of clock. Maybe it was even less.

Floriea had one quick tryout with an NFL team, but wasn't even signed to a practice squad.

Trent Richardson 2.0 vibes. Bring back Joe Banner to trade Judkins for a 1st round pick.

It appeared like we did NOT want any part of the rain (just my hunch as I was watching the game). It definitely seemed to affect our team more than theirs

can we trade Bond for Quincy Morgan?

Judkins has been disappointing but the run blocking is so putrid it would take a Nick Chubb type guy to gain yards behind them. they don't create holes, they create a brick wall.

Judkins left the game in a walking boot, and Sanders left with a hip injury lol

So I guess it's up to McLaughlin next week.

Sampson should be back next week.

I had a bad feeling about this game and was frankly not surprised. Jets are another team that’s a QB and a couple players away from being real. They have some real talent. To me they’re very similar to the Browns.

Our OL is still not very good. We still need a RT and a guard/center who can run block. Judkins is a fine runner, he’s plenty good enough, but we just can’t run block. Until we can run effectively, the O will be undependable.

I live about 10 miles from Met Life and it was pissing all game. It was maybe not so clear on TV but it was nasty out there. Lots of flooding in the area.

I agree about the Jets being similar to the Browns. I also think Judkins is a good back. There was nothing wrong with him last season up until he got injured and our OL was worse last year. Maybe he’s not 100 % healthy from his injury. The thing I don’t like about this game is that we seemed to regress which is exactly what most Browns teams in the past have done. Same old stuff.

This loss wasn’t on Watson, however, he has always had ball security issues. I don’t think it’s coachable or fixable at this point in his career.

Can I just say 1 good thing .... that being Quincey Williams. WOW! What a game for the guy. 3 forced funbles. Really? 11 tackles, 1 TFL, 1 PD. He played a great game.

He deserved the dub, a shame he didn't get it.

Meh.

It was the game Vegas saw coming and I foolishly let hope cloud my vision!! We definitely regressed to our average or a little below it.

Maybe their DL was the best we faced or maybe it was the rain - or a combination of both. And when they continued to blitz with the CB or S - it wasn't until the 4th Q that we seemed to adjust to help out with extra personnel to help. But our OL was overmatched and out physicaled all day.

I think Q is still not 100% - and I think nearly any back would have issues with the lack of running lanes we create.

Fitzpatrick is dirty - and he had two personal fouls and still in the game. Did he even get a warning? I believe it would be worth investigating a rule change: if a team commits a foul and a player on the other team is injured as a result of the play - the person committing the foul is out for as long as the other player. KC being out hurt. He might not of had too many attempts but I think he might of created some RAC yards in those conditions.

As others have mentioned - I am a bit surprised we didn't seem to be able to get the ball to Fannin.

Watson wasn't bad but given the constant pressure he held the ball too long and took too many sacks. Someone mentioned the play calling being Stefanski like ... there were maybe 3 or 4 'cute' plays or plays that were always going to fail because they took too long to develop ... I thought of those Stefanski in those moments but overall given the conditions and losing KC, I really didn't hate the play calling. The TD to Boston being a prime example. 3rd and 10 on their 29.

On D - we didn't do too badly but we struggled vs the run and didn't seem to adjust. And on their 4th down TD - the DL and LB were stacked on the left and before the play was run and the announcer said something about they might be able to run for a 1st down, my exact words were 'if they rn they probably score a TD'. That made me as frustrated as anything else in the game. It seemed such a self inflicted wound.

Ravens are going to be very tough. They are a much better team than the Jets. I'll be hoping for no injuries and to get healthy to play the Titans. The Titans who just got whooped by the previously winless Texans....

I was thinking he was on our PS.

So much for the theory we are Cleveland and love the bad weather.

Just a general comment so people don't take a comment of mine to some extreme. It's not that I think Judkins stinks. He doesn't. The problem is he is a straight line runner. He just plows ahead to the planned hole even if there isn't a gap. Sometimes that is OK if you need a yard, but the guy is stiff.

We have 3 WR on the practice squad, but he is not one of them.


https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/

Krys Barnes
43 LB 6-2 229 28 7 UCLA

Myles Bryant
27 CB 5-9 192 28 7 Washington

Michael Coats Jr.
39 CB 5-9 184 25 R West Virginia

Obinna Eze
68 OT 6-8 325 28 2 TCU

Logan Fano
99 DE 6-4 252 24 R Utah

John FitzPatrick
87 TE 6-7 262 26 5 Georgia

Jimmy Horn Jr.
19 WR 5-8 174 24 2 Colorado

Sam Kamara
92 DT 6-0 272 28 4 Stony Brook

KT Leveston
72 T 6-4 335 27 3 Kansas State

Zion Logue
69 DT 6-6 325 25 1 Georgia

Bub Means
81 WR 6-2 215 25 3 Pittsburgh

Jaret Patterson
41 RB 5-8 195 26 2 Buffalo

James Proche II
80 WR 5-11 193 30 8 SMU

Khordae Sydnor
90 DE 6-4 264 23 R Vanderbilt

Nadame Tucker
60 DE 6-3 250 26 R Western Michigan

Zion Washington
30 S 6-1 208 23 R Boise State

Chris Williams
61 DT 6-2 298 28 5 Wagner

I don't feel too happy this morning. It was nice to get up the last 3 weeks knowing that we had won. As bad as we played at times we did come back late and took the lead. Then the mistakes we're known for reared their ugly head. Missed extra point, not being able to move the ball and kill the clock and that terrible fumble on the punt try. That sick feeling in my stomach that I've known all too well over the years. A very winnable game we let get away. 4-1 would have been great this morning.

to make matters worse, Schwesinger in a walking boot after the game is not great news

"No shake, no jiggle". And now this year, we combine a straight-ahead runner with super-happy-feet and indecisiveness.

I would have happy feet behind that oline

Travis Prentice flashbacks

Yep. lol

I'm more commenting on some of the comments than anything. Yes, people can claim the OL performed terribly because they did. But many of those same people have been saying how well they have performed for weeks now. When one game swings the pendulum in the opposite direct this far that's an indication of a fickle crowd.

The special teams had its share of blunders as well. Yet again a unit who until now has been playing well had a bad game.

The D allowed a lot of run yards but the defense did not give up a lot of points. When you defense allows only 17 points you should win the game.

And I get the fact that you can't "blame the loss" on watson but let's call it the way it the way it is. He also contributed to the loss. Yes he was under a lot of pressure but so are many other NFL QB's. It's part of the job description.

He was 15-33 with 155 yards. He had three fumbles.

I'm not hanging the loss on him alone but he most certainly contributed to it.

I guess maybe I'm just not as down over a single loss after winning three straight. Other than the very first game this season the team as a whole played much worse than we have seen for three straight weeks. As of now I'm considering it a one off and not doom and gloom. We'll see how it goes from here.

I think what this game says more than anything else is what needs this team still have besides future franchise QB.

1) Right Tackle - After season Dawand Jones is a free agent and I see no reason to retain. Draft a book end tackle across from Fano.
2) Wide Receiver. Juedy more than likely will not be on the team next season and Bond is a one trick pony to get deep. The offensive struggled after KC got injured. Another dirty Minkah hit by the way. But the team needs a 3rd reliable WR.
3) Blocking Tight End - Fannon is a weapon, but this team needs a tight end that can assist the Oline in opening up holes for the run game.
4) Run Stuffing DT. This team has as good of get penetration DT's as I have seen. But in bad weather run the ball games the team needs a 330 lb DT that can eat some blocks and allow the LB's space to get after a running back.
5) Depth at both LB and CB.

In terms of yesterday's loss, I'd say my top 3 blames would be:

1 OL
2 ST's
3 Bond

But Watson wasn't average, Judkins is a major concern, and our defense wasn't ready to play at all

I suggest that we consider what we saw as to why DW "wasn't average." Shooting gallery when we drop him straight back or go shotgun. Watching too much for way too long. Fumbles and sacks hurt us. Which leads to, throwing late and behind receivers. He seems to be waiting of see the receiver open before delivering, but seldom throwing them open. I wanted to see Bond more; I did and don't see him as the receiver we need still. His day helped ice the loss. Our playbook will be dictated by this OL. DW can't produce with the shallow depth, lazy pocket protection. Roll him, use his legs. His strength and success seems hooked to extending plays by attacking the perimeter. Designed runs have worked, but we seldom go back to them. Hope Monken isn't going to treat us to more of last year's offense.

- The offensive line played like crap.
- Watson held the ball too long at times. I was shocked the amount of times he was able to break free of pressure. So far this season, he looks better rolling out (whether play-designed or not) than throwing in the pocket. Not sure that is a good thing.
- Bond had a terrible game.
- Minkah Fitzpatrick is a POS.
- Interior DL backups really came through yesterday and applied a bunch of pressure. I feel really good about the depth there.
- Judkins is apparently injured but think it is more than alright to question his ability at this juncture.
- Verse needs more than a bullrush to be successful.
- Weather was a factor but the Jets played better in it than we did.

His stats would look a lot better if the receivers didn't account for 5 drops for about 75 yards and a TD

We need Verse to be better than he's been most of the time. He is a very limited pass rusher because he just has the one move. Even without comparing him to Myles, he's still not been good enough

Agreed. He's not ...............been much, really.

Soooo many drops yesterday.

The weather had a lot to do with the drops and yes the Jets played in the same weather but it didn’t affect them as much. Maybe they were more focused than us.

ADD: We don't play zone.
We don't wrap. We don't shed blocks well at all.

I’ve been seeing where people are getting on Bond for dropping passes and rightfully so but if I remember correctly there weren’t issues with him last season.

Was just about to post what you beat me to .. Way to may posters ( whats left ) do the ya /boo all season long !

To Peen ; I was really disappointed in Bond's play after he finally got some playing time

A couple of us talked about ( pre season ) how bad the run blocking by the OL was going to be this season. The two rooks are still learning and growing.. We need a Right tackle and a swing ..

We see drops every week in every game. I agree that five is way too many but two or three is pretty standard. That wouldn't change his stats much. Then there's the three fumbles. Come on man.

It's okay to talk about him being good when he is good just like it's okay to talk about him being bad when he's bad.

I live in Nashville. Their team is 0-5. They're a prime example of what it looks like when you pick the wrong QB in the draft. Even at #1.

The thing about it is this team overall has performed better than most anyone expected and virtually nobody expected the Brown to be 3-2 at this juncture. The Jets game at this point in time looks more like anomaly than a trend. We'll see how it goes from here.

3-2 is winning 60% of your games. That's more than the glass being half full.

Rolling DW out could help the line we have to play. His panic scrambles make their jobs harder, more penalties (if possible!) and taking sacks. Monken would benefit from being less predictable in the backfield assignments. Feels like Ski 2.0 to me.

I have to say that I have always thought that games played in extreme weather can go either way... it is not the environment where the better team is evident by their play.


Move on...