DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum PD: Prominent Changes Loom

2 points I disagree on ...

1. If Eric Stienbach becomes avaialble by some MIRACLE and we sign him I will be THRILLED ... that would be a GREAT MOVE ... meaning we will have gotten our 2 best OLmen on next years team via FA and then hopefully Thomas .. that would be a GREAT START ... we'd have a SOLID ASS FOUNDATION to add pieces around for years ...

U then start drafting OLmen every year for 3 years or so then U can taper off to every 2 years with 1st day picks .. now dont get me wrong .. it is SAFER, SMARTER AND BETTER to build via the draft and then add pieces via FA .. if i ran a team thats what I'd do .. but last year if Opie had spent the $$$ he spent on Shaff on Hutch ... we;d have started an AWESOME OL with La and Bent via FA .. so it is possible to do it via FA .. just not the ideal way to go as your at the mercy of other teams letting good ones go and that NEVER EVER EVER HAPPENS AT LT .. and that leads right into point #2 ..

2. IF Shaff is the absolutely weakest link on an OL .. and say the others were .. Thomas/Stienbach/La/Someone else good/Shaff ... U could have a PRETTY DAMM GOOD OL . top 5 in football ... NO OL .. not even KC's of last year had 5 ABOVE AVG. guys on it .. the Stilers always have a top 5 OL . and they always have 1 weak spot .. U can builod a good OL with many different combinations of talent levels ... the thing is if U have a below avg. guy .. that means u must have more abv. avg guys on it than say a line with 5 Avg. OLmen (witch can be a pretty good group) ... know what i mean??

my point is if Shaffs the weak link .. we can have a pretty decent OL anyway as long as we surrond him with the proper pieces ..

[color:"white"] DND [/color] ... Vers is right ... DAVIS is going to cost way more than hes worth .... some time is going to get its ass chaffed by this BUM ... and hes going to want BIGTIME LT MONEY ... the contract we signed shaff to is gonna look like spending money compared to what this UNDERACHIEVING LAZY ASS WANTS ...

and [color:"white"] tabber [/color] read what dang posted ... the article .. I know you'll somehow discredit it .. but what he says there goes along PERFECTLY with his MO .. its a BUSINESS ... that about sums his LAZY UNDERACHIEVING ASS up ... and watch what he does next year after he gets PAID and the only part of the BUSINESS he cares about is over ..

I'll start looking for some huge cardboard boxes for you bud, because your going to need somewhere to live.

You know me to well Vers <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I doubt if Opie makes a run at Davis..he may look at Steinbach, since it's a division rival..and even Starks .but he has to take Thomas if he's there..
But as I said yesterday..expect some assistants to go.

Expect Lerner to put more pressure on Opie and Rac to get talent in the weak areas and get the team READY to play everygame...

:drool:

If we're prioritizing next season over the longer-term, then I agree.

Next season the team and staff will under the gun to make improvement..and 6-10 won't cut it..500ball might..
But in order for that to happen, a lot of influx of talent and leadership will have to be in place..
The draft will be the third phase of that and starting with getting a priemer LT, that can't go wrong.

I agree. If the focus us on keeping the coach and GM in place through a more "successful" season next year - Thomas will probably be the most appropriate pick.

If you are picking that high you better make damn sure u are taking the best player available and not just trying to fill a need. If the best player fills a need that is great but you dont pass on a Calvin Johnson for a Joe Thomas.

Unless Phil wants to be compared to Matt Millen and unless we want to look like the Lions, we won't be taking a WR at #3, regardless of who is taken ahead of us.

But if Peterson is there, we need to take him.

Anything other than O-line with the first pick is a stupid move <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, don't agree with you on this buddy. If Peterson doesn't come out, I'll be right there with you. It would be such a shame if he does and we passed on him. The upside to this guy is incredible.

Sorry Bro'...

Joe Thomas IS the BPA at 3...It's gonna be UNQUESTIONED come April...

Right now it's

Johnson
Quinn
Thomas
Peterson

IN ANY ORDER

Branch ain't even sniffin' that top 4...Nor is Adams...

You're BPA thang comes to play...

One of those 4 will be a Brown come April...And if Thomas is there at 3???...That means Johnson is LONG GONE...As long as the ole' man in Oakland still has any sanity...

THANK GOD WE DIDN'T SCREW THIS ONE UP!!!!!!!!!

BULLSSHIT...

U don't pass on a Peterson for a Levi Brown if Thomas is gone...

Look again...

It's NOT about a POSITION...It's all about a POSITION IF THERE AT A BPA...

If Thomas is gone we best be sniffin Peterson and Branch...

No need to be sorry bud. If we agreed on everything we would have married the same woman <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> A running back can't run thru non existant holes. LT wouldn't look good behind our O-line <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Yes they do, but what does that have to do with the Browns draft <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


If Thomas is gone we best trade DOWN.

I don't know, we both married nurses, that's pretty damn close! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If we take Johnson I'm not watching football next year... I know he's a great talent... but so were all the WRs that Detroit took that high and so was Leon and what's he done this year??

1. Thomas
2. Branch
3. Peterson

Well that does prove we are both smart <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

or sick... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Well it could be both <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I just got back from the sports bar watching the game! <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

This game has not been a lot different then most this season...............we need blocking and that is the bottom line!

This team just cannot block and stop the run!

I sure hope that Savage has his eye on Thomas for the first pick............but he has stated many times that good offensive lineman can be picked up on the second day of the draft................let's hope that he does not wait that long!

We need to draft nothing but OL....OL....DL....DL......OL and nothing else!

The problems of this team is not RAC's fault................he needs more talent to work with...........but we know who takes the blame!

This has been discussed all day long...........I am sure...............just venting after a long hard season! <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Happy New Years everybody! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

lol, well vented. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Depends upon what type of sick we're talking about. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Edwards attitude, questionable hands poor routes. I am sorry but there is no freaking comparison between the 2.

The kid doesnt drop anything he gets his paws on. He runs flawless routes and he is one of the most humble kids that you will ever meet.

There are a lot of Joe Thomas fans but guys a 300lb OT coming off of a major injury is a big risk. I have no problem taking an OT that high. Hell i would probaly have taken McNeil that high last year because i was convinced he was going to be the next great LT and not the cream puff Brick.

Joe has the knee. He doesnt run block well. He will become complacent and simply not finish blocks. those are big concerns for a #3 overall pick. You cant go in thinking this is our guy come hell or high water. You look at whats there and stick with BPA. That may be joe it may be Jamarcus Russell or Adrian Peterson but drafting for need in the first doesnt work.

There are 2 major arguments for keeping RAC and they tend to be:
1. I?ve sat through worse football longer than anyone can imagine, another year of s#it won?t matter. Plus look at all the injuries and lack of talent?

This is one of the silliest arguments for keeping a coach ever. Every single person in the NFL has talent. A coach is suppose to coach to the strengths of his players, backup or starter.

2. We haven?t let a HC ride out the poor records to become a great coach i.e. we need more continuity.

While this is a very credible argument, what in the past two years leads you to believe that RAC will be able to right the ship and create a winning atmosphere? Is it the fact he said we would suck at the beginning of the season and we do? Wow great coaches usually don?t make remarks like that. Or is it the fact he wastes more challenges and can?t seem to manage the clock to save his life? Yeah? great coaches blow time outs all the time (pause) NOT.

Romeo is too much of a buddy to the players and not a General. Players will like you if you teach them how to win. Be a man and instill some pride and discipline into your team. Another thing that has always bugged me is Romeo expects his players to be in shape and play through injuries but how can they take him seriously when he looks like a marshmallow? Sure that may not really matter but if you can?t take accountability for your own health why would players listen to you preach about being a professional?

Get me an OFFENSIVE minded head coach, I could care less if we keep the 3-4 or not. If we do great we are one players closer to a great defense. If not we are in about the same boat. I cannot sit through another season of our team coming out onto the field and expecting a 3 and out or turning the ball over. Defense wins championships, Offense wins GAMES. You have to win games to get to championships.

I would trust any of these guys above RAC. He tried to cover his butt at the beginning of the season by saying we could be a better team with a worse record? That never sat well with be because what coach at the beginning of a season concedes that they have no chance of winning that year?!? He should have just resigned then.

My top 3:
Cam Cameron ? Runs the offense in SD but a 5 year old could probably do that if they had LT.
Brian Schottenheimer ? Offensive coordinator of the 10-6 Jets who just made the playoffs after a horrible 2005 season.
Bobby Petrino ? 40-9 as a head coach at Louisville and won the big east this year.

The ?funny? thing about all 3 of these guys are they played quarterback in college which shows me that they have a good grasp on how to manage a game from the offensive point of view and won?t be affriad to air it out. Our defense isn?t in disarray like our offense it just can?t stop the run, ever.

The best of the rest:
Kirk Ferentz, Pete Carroll, Mark Richt, Tommy Tuberville, Houston Nutt and Les Miles.

Special Consideration:
Jim Tressel ? If we cloned tressel I would allow his clone to coach the Browns because if he ever leaves tOSU it better be when he is 108 and blind, def and dumb.

Fire RAC, hire someone smart.

[color:"orange"] Mourg - From what I've seen he does pretty well run blocking and I haven't seen anything to suggest he gets complacent and doesn't finish blocks. I will argue about it because you have probably seen more of him than I have and generally you have pretty good insight.

I do take issue with how you keep bringing up he knee injury. I noticed that you have mentioned it in various posts. Frankly that argument against Thomas just doesn't hold water. Yes it would have been an issue for last years draft but he has played this whole season without any difficulty. At this point it is really a non issue.

If you want to argue that Thomas is not as talented as most seem to believe or if you feel there are better players available or that it is more important for us to beef up the dline that's fine. But you really need to leave the knee out of the argument. [/color]

A knee injury for a guy over 300lb has to be an issue especially a tackle. To me it makes him a very high risk prospect. I just dont want to see us spend a top 5 pick on a guy just to see him blow out that knee again.

The injury is a year old and plenty of linemen have come back from injuries like this. I am much more concerned with Peterson's injury history if you want to talk about high risk picks.

I agree on Peterson, I just dont think you can draft a guy that high with his history of injuries. The same I will say for Thomas. If i am gonna give a guy a 50 mil contract, i want a guy that hasnt had a blown out acl. We all want a stud left tackle and I have been screaming for one as long as anyone else but with our history of injuries, lets avoid one that is already coming off of major knee reconstruction.

Okay, what of Peterson's injuries are you concerned with? A high ankle sprain in 2005 or the broken collar bone in 2006? I'm sorry, I just don't see a high risk with either of the injuries he's had.

Its a combination of running style and injuries. I think upright runners are always high risk of injury and when u see all those little injuries it adds up. The AFC north is a tough place for a RB and especially one that is gonna square up and blast the defender. This division is full of 270lb linebackers and I just dont think you can get away with it for to long.

I really like the back that can get low and just avoid those hits and pick up the positive yards.

Eric Dickerson seems to have made it with that style just fine for quite a number years.

When Dickerson played most the offensive linemen werent as big as the linebackers are today.

If you guys don't want the kid fine but lets not make up crap out his injury history that simply isn't there. I've watched every game this kid's played in for the last three years and he's run into some pretty big guys and knocked them on their butts. He's got the strength to run it up the middle and the speed to get outside. He's going to make some team one hell of a tailback.

[color:"orange"] My concern with Peterson isn't so much any one injury but the trend of injuries. To break your collerbone the way he did just tells me something isn't right.

And from the OU [/color] website .

Adrian Peterson
# 28
Running Back - RB

Height: 6-2 Weight: 218

Junior

Palestine, Texas
Palestine HS

Year G-GS Rushing Avg TD Long
2004 13-8 339-1,925 5.7 15 80 vs OSU
2005 11-7 220-1,108 5.1 14 84 vs OSU
2006 6-6 168-935 5.6 10 53 vs Iowa State
Total 30-21 727-3,968 5.5 39 84 vs OSU

Year G-GS Receiving Avg TD Long
2004 13-8 5-12 2.4 - 6 vs Kansas State
2005 11-7 9-50 5.6 - 11 vs Tulsa
2006 6-6 8-127 15.9 1 69 vs UAB
Total 30-21 22-189 8.6 1 69 vs UAB


Adrian Peterson Photo Gallery | Bowl Practice Interview

2005: Consensus All-Big 12 ... [color:"white"] missed all or more than half of four games with ankle injury [/color] and still rushed for more yards than any other Big 12 RB ... second in the league in rushing to Missouri QB Brad Smith ... had the 14th-best rushing season in school history ... ran for more than 100 yards in five of the eight games in which he was healthy ... gained 237 yards on 24 carries with two TDs (84 and 71) vs. Oklahoma State and was named the Walter Camp National Player of the Week ... carried 32 times for 220 yards and three TDs in win over Tulsa.

2004 Highlights vs. Texas | 2004 Awards Ceremony

2004: Second in the Heisman balloting, best finish ever by a freshman ... No. 3 in voting for the Maxwell Award (player of the year) ... consensus All-American while playing against six ranked foes ... first OU freshman to be named All-America ... first freshman since Dre Bly in 1996 to be named AP All-American ... first freshman Doak Walker Award finalist ... totaled a nation-leading and NCAA freshman record 339 rushing attempts (third highest in OU history) ... No. 3 nationally with 1,925 rushing yards ... yards after contact were 1,365, 71% of his net ... broke OU school season rushing record set in 1978 by Billy Sims (1,896) and NCAA freshman record set in 1996 by Wisconsin?s Ron Dayne (1,863) ... also set NCAA frosh marks for consecutive 100-yard rushing games (9) and total 100-yard rushing games (11) ... His 11, 100-yard games ranked second at OU (Quentin Griffin had 12 in 2002) ... tied NCAA freshman record for reaching 1,000 yards in the fewest games (7) with Emmitt Smith (Florida, 1987) and Marshall Faulk (San Diego State, 1991) ... Greg Pruitt, who reached 1,000 yards in six games of the 1971 season, is the only OU back to reach the plateau faster than [color:"white"] Peterson ... rushed for 100 yards in 11 of 13 games ... lone exceptions were game 10 when he played sparingly in a win over Nebraska (15-58) due to injury and the Orange Bowl (25-82) . [/color] .. No. 6 nationally in rushing yards (148.1 per game) ... set OU freshman all-purpose record with 1,937 yards, the third-highest figure in school history ... No. 15 nationally with 149.0 all-purpose yards/game ... had 44 rushes of 10 or more yards and eight of 35 yards or longer ... second OU frosh to rush for 100 yards in debut game, and the first RB to do so.


[color:"orange"]I agree he is a tremendous talant but...He hasn't had one complete season in college without getting injured. What makes you think he can play a complete season in the NFL without gettng injured and missing games?[/color]

I don't remember Dickerson missing any college games secondary to injury. but I was pretty young back then.

Courtney Brown was injury free his whole career at PSU but once he got to the NFL.he couldn't escape the injury factor.
KiJana Carter was injury free at PSU,then when he got to the NFL,he was on the IR every other year it seemed like.
Because Adrian Peterson had some injuries at Oklahoma does that mean he will also at the NFL level?
Injuries you can never predict.

Have any examples of guys who were pretzles in college who were iron men in the NFL?

Guys who were healthy in college and stretcher ornaments in the NFL are a dime a dozen.

Injury history should be at the top of any evaluation sheet. Some injuries just happen (circumstantial) while others are "indicators". Chronic injuries are also an obvious consideration. The best player in the world can't help you win from the side-lines.