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May I throw a curve ball at you?
The real question might not be whether or not the Browns [and I am not talking about the fans and media........I am talking about the team] wants to keep DA or not.........it is whether DA wants to stay here or not.
That is the real issue. I would wink, but some might think I am kidding. *L*
And I really wonder if he wants to stay here...
The writing's on the wall from both fans and management (I know you said you'd offer a 3 year deal, but c'mon...a 3 year deal is a slap in the face if you wanna make someone a long-term starter).
Should be interesting how this plays out. Bed time, big day tomorrow. Dads weekend! All 55 years old of Old Man Ammo's gonna be down to celebrate my 21st, coincidentally.
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...I am a bit shocked that w/all the ridiculous posts on here that you choose mac's to ridicule. mac's post may very well have deserved ridicule, but the huge volume of posts that unfairly berate DA are a mountain compared to mac's molehill. If you wanna play referee, at least start w/the team that is committing the most fouls. 
The first response I made was trying to take advantage of an open opportunity to explain my take on the labeling that happens eveytime this board gets into a heated discussion on the pros and cons of two quarterbacks; which it has been doing since 2001.
I guess mac's post spoke to me.
The second one was ornery for sure. But what was his question again?
mac and I have a bit of a history. So as this old Dawg felt like biting someone at that moment, pulling his chain when he was eating was hard to resist.
Sorry mac.
Not really.
Somebody stop me!
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I see someone else has a bit of insomnia......  I actually agree with several things in this thread. In no particular order..... I, too, wonder if DA actually wants to stay in Cleveland. Not so much because of Quinn but because he's a West Coast guy. I know that when I lived on the East Coast I liked it but I still wanted to move back to Ohio. And it had nothing to do with my employer. I just like the Midwest. I also agree that a 3 year deal, while it is in the Brown's best interest, is pretty close to a slap in the face of someone who probably wants to be considered the face of the Cleveland Browns for years to come if he signs the contract. I highly doubt his agent took more than 30 seconds to look at a 3 year offer and laugh. As far as dumping Anderson......that's not gonna happen. That's a Corpus fantasy. The thing that has always made the most sense for the Browns, all of DA's pros and cons aside, is the 1 year high tender. That covers the Browns for this year at QB, gives DA a decent (not great) payday and allows them to evaluate both QBs for another year. They can still sign him next year after he becomes an UFA if they really want to. It'll cost them more but by then they'll know if they really want to pay it. Lord knows they've got it. Besides, we're not going anywhere until the Defense stops allowing 400 yards a game anyway. Ooops....wrong thread....
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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The first response I made was trying to take advantage of an open opportunity to explain my take on the labeling that happens eveytime this board gets into a heated discussion on the pros and cons of two quarterbacks; which it has been doing since 2001.
I just stick with the TIMMY, TIMMY, TIMMY chants to show how stupid some of the arguments are 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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And likewise, DA would be stupid to take a 3 year deal when the lure of a 5-6 year deal on the RFA market is on the horizon.
Expect the tender to come soon.
3 years doesn't sound anything like a "long-term" deal. I'd have to imagine his agent demands 5 years minimum at Tony Romo money because Romo took a below-market deal. IMO the divorce between the Browns and DA is beginning.
You are spot on the lure of a 5-6 year deal is out there for DA, no question.
However, there are advantages to DA that translate to real dollars that nobody whats to even consider IMHO.
#1 The Browns can forgo even putting a deal on the table and keep DA at the tender price of 2.56 Million. Thats nothing to sneeze at to be sure, but the Browns could in fact do exactly that, and DA would have to wait through another season for his big payday.
#2 Anybody that thinks DA will receive even one offer sheet that would have to include a 1st and 3rd needs to get into rehab. He can stick his foot in the water to be sure to see what teams would perhaps be willing to offer him when he becomes a UFA, but no offers will be coming his way as a RFA, no way not ever...
#3 DA can wait it out take his 2.56 Million this year and wait to become a FA and pass up money he would get this season from the Browns fall flat on his face as a starter or possibly sustain a career ending injury. His choice not to take a 3 year deal does come with a risk factor is alls I am saying.
DA has some strong bargaining points and so do the Browns have some strong bargaining points. Perhaps if the Browns don't get a deal done with DA, they will sign DA up for the tender and start BQ. If BQ falls on his face the Browns could then pony up a better longer term deal for DA, and go from there.
The Browns I think want insurance in case BQ is a flop, and they want to get DA signed up to a deal, but not a deal that goes beyond 3 years. I don't think the Browns will go beyond 3 years, I wouldn't lets put it that way. DA is a mystery at this point, he played great last year, but he has some areas that have got to improve in order for him to be a more complete QB, and I am not sure he can. I am not sure he can't either, but with the question marks he has hanging over his head, there is no way I am going to mortgage this teams future based on the gamble that he can become a more complete player.
I was slammed pretty hard for the deal I would put in front of him, and most posters think DA would be a fool to except anything less then a 5 year deal with guaranteed money. However, I think the Browns at this juncture would be fools to go beyond 3 years. Maybe maybe 4, but if it's me, no way. I sweeten the pot by overpaying him next season, and I follow that up by a more reasonable dollar amount for the last 2 years, and go from there.
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
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The second one was ornery for sure. But what was his question again?
mac and I have a bit of a history. So as this old Dawg felt like biting someone at that moment, pulling his chain when he was eating was hard to resist.
LOL.........in that case, forget I ever mentioned it.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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So..........it's just idle speculation
I for one am convinced that that is what most of the "he's not worth, or he's worth this" talk is.. Just speculation and opinion.. perfectly ok in my book if someone doesn't think he's worth a 1st and a 3rd.. I disagree, but it's ok for someone else to believe anything they want to believe.
After reviewing the rest of the posts on this board, I'm come to the conclusion that none of us know beans.. 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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After reviewing the rest of the posts on this board, I'm come to the conclusion that none of us know beans..
I beg to differ Daman, I do so know that I don't know.
There is one thing I do know, and it is far from fact. But I would stake my poor reputation on nobody will give up a 1 and a 3 for DA, and then sign him to a sizable contract to boot. IF and I say IF we should find someone that is willing to pony up a 1 and a 3, you will hear a yell in Cleveland coming from me that will not be believed. To me the fantasy of getting a #1 and #3 is just that fantasy.
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
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Just curious Vers, and I KNOW it's all speculation, but what would you consider good value for DA at this piont?
I agree with BTTB, and don't think we would get a 1st and 3rd for him. Do you think a sign and trade is possible?
I know I don't think that we should give him up for anything less than a high 2nd and something else (player or draft pick). Other than that I would be fine with going into camp with DA and Quinn battling it out.
But then the question becomes does DA sign a deal with us knowing that he may lose that battle?
Personally I think we end up tendering him, what happens after that is anyones guess. I would LOVE to get some extra draft help, but.........I also wouldn't comlain to loudly if we go into camp with both DA and Quinn.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
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Not trying to dodge your question, but I can't really answer that. And I don't like making stuff up. I'm just not that informed when it comes to that area of football.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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After reviewing the rest of the posts on this board, I'm come to the conclusion that none of us know beans..
Now when it comes to beans? I KNOW beans!
(Grew up in farm country!)
I can tell you a Kentucky pole bean from a half runner in a damned heartbeat!
But when it comes to precisely "what value" Phil places on DA, I don't have a clue!
And after all, that's the key factor in all of this!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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There is one thing I do know, and it is far from fact. But I would stake my poor reputation on nobody will give up a 1 and a 3 for DA, and then sign him to a sizable contract to boot.
LOL,, there are actually 2 parts to that statement..
1. Give up a 1 and 3
2. Sign DA to a long term contract.
I can guarantee you that IF someone gave up a 1 and 3, they would indeed sign him to a long term contract.,, be idiots not to in that case..
But question remains, and I don't know the answer either, will ANYONE give up a 1 and 3 for him? I don't know for sure.,.,
This I do know for sure. if we High Tender him, a team wanting DA doesn't really have a choice but to give up a 1 and 3.. thems the rules..
But if we sign him to a 3 year deal then trade him, we can get what we can get and it may not be a 1 and 3. That's just the way it works.. not me saying it..
As for not knowing beans,.,,, perhaps that was a little harsh.,., Some of us surely know beans.,.,
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's still the same Vers...Just as I thought it would...
We low ball em'...In this case it's YEARS...NO WAY his agent buys that...
Then we Tender em'...NO WAY we get a 1 and a 3 for em'...NO WAY he signs a 3 year deal...
What's it all mean???...It means he signs the 2+M Tender and plays for us in 08...
Bad part is this...IF he plays decently and we don't go long term then he flies in FA after the 08 season and we get nuttin'...And LIKE IT...
He plays BAD in 08 and we still get nuttin'...But we LOST anything we COULD GET NOW...
I would tender him a FIRST ROUNDER ONLY...The Sr. Bowl will have said ALOT about any interest in Anderson...It's when things start being talked about...
Here's a short snippet to chew on...
*SNIPPET HAS NO LINK/CREDIT*
Last edited by Referee1; 01/26/08 01:46 PM.
Go Browns!!!
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Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You're putting an awful lot of stock in that one "NFC source". I guess it's out of the realm of possibilities that someone other than the Browns could be putting up smoke screens concerning DA.
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At the risk of asking yet again but what does it take to get DA to sign, I don't see the Browns giving him much more then a 3 year deal. I said it before and was jumped on by a few people for even saying it, and here it is 3 years, just like I said. I personnally think it's highly unlikely that the Browns offer DA much more then 3 years. I think given the question marks hanging over his head the Browns would be fools to give him more. That doesn't mean at some point down the road should DA show real improvement that the Browns wouldn't sweetin the pot. But at this juncture I agree with the response the NFL guy gave, to inconsistant, and at #1 and #3 the guy has to be a stud, and he isn't.
The next question really is do the Browns think that it's more important to have insurance against BQ falling on his face then it is to get back a draft pick. Maybe we could squeeze a #1 out, not likely but perhaps... I think I would keep all options open heading into next season, and the hell with the pick or picks. The QB position is just to important not to have insurance if it's available, IMHO. By keeping DA we have insurance by letting him go we have risk. It's up to whomever is in charge to decide whats the most important, but me I stick with what i got even if DA won't sign up to a 3 year deal..
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
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All I'm saying is that his accuracy is "questionable". It's not just people's "imagination".
As is his footwork, ability to throw while scrambling and short throws.
There's positives and negatives with DA and those are the exact same type of things that "determine a players value".
What that value is league wide, I have no idea. But many "make it sound" like he is a "superstud at QB". Which simply isn't the case.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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but most of the guys saying we can get a first and a third rounder are the same guys telling us how much DA sucks.
Funny thing ain't it?
Vers, I have to give you credit, though I disagree with you from time to time, I have to say, that you are the most sensible voice I've heard about this whole thing.
I would love to see what would have happened if DA was on another team and was a FA this year, and we still had Frye as the starter. Hell, even throw Quinn in as the inexperienced rookie on the bench. These same people degrading everything about DA would be looking at him as a ProBowl alternate with 29 TD's and almost half that many INTs, nearly 3000 yd. passing and a 10 win season with a 7-1 home record. How many "we gotta get this guy" posts do you think we would see?
I can't believe that many of these same bashers, were all up Holcomb's rearend when he was here  .
I hope we tender him and noone bites. We get a good QB at about 2.5 million, and we have a high potential guy on the bench in Quinn with a reasonable contract too. I would love to have DA one more year to see if Quinn really has what it takes to win the starting spot. If he does, having Anderson as a back-up is a great situation IMO.
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Pit,..I haven't heard anybody claim DA's a superstar. The FACTS are that he can win and has the #'s to prove it,...style points don't win games. Bernie always looked terrible running AND throwing the ball,...but he got the job done and that's what REALLY matters.
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Funny thing ain't it?
I would love to see what would have happened if DA was on another team and was a FA this year, and we still had Frye as the starter. Hell, even throw Quinn in as the inexperienced rookie on the bench. These same people degrading everything about DA would be looking at him as a ProBowl alternate with 29 TD's and almost half that many INTs, nearly 3000 yd. passing and a 10 win season with a 7-1 home record. How many "we gotta get this guy" posts do you think we would see?
Firstly, how is pointing out factual weaknesses in a players game "degrading" anybody? It's not. Read draft reports on ANY player. It has "strengths and weaknesses".
Are you saying that DA has "an accurate short game"? That he has "good fotwork"? That his accuracy "is NOT" irratic? Is that what you're saying?
If it is, I don't believe you have been watching the games. If you believe they ARE "legitimate questions in his game" then how is that "degrading"??? They're just obvious questions that stand out. Nothing more, nothing less.
Secondly, I have seen VERY FEW people who have suggested getting a FA QB for anything other than a back-up. MOST posters have generaly felt that "You build a team through the draft". Well, up untill NOW that is!
Thirdly, you seem to be one of the "Crystal balls boys" too. You can "predict" what everyone would have said if we still had Frye and DA was a FA. GMAFB.
I would be saying the same thing I always said about a QB. "DRAFT ONE" But we already did that, didn't we? I think that's the realisation that many seem to cast aside without putting it in its proper context.
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I can't believe that many of these same bashers, were all up Holcomb's rearend when he was here .
Pointing out the weaknesses in DA's game isn't "bashing" anybody. Once again, read a draft report. It's done all the time in "the real world". Oh, I keep forgetting, they're "bashers".
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I hope we tender him and noone bites. We get a good QB at about 2.5 million, and we have a high potential guy on the bench in Quinn with a reasonable contract too.
The "crystal ball boys" strike again! You don't even know IF DA can beat out Quinn next season.
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I would love to have DA one more year to see if Quinn really has what it takes to win the starting spot. If he does, having Anderson as a back-up is a great situation IMO.
That is a fine scenario. Here is the stickler. If Quinn IS the answer, we get "nothing for DA after next season".
We have a D that is in dire need of talent infusion. So no matter how you slice it, it's quite a gamble. The critical factors are simple ones. What does Phil think he's worth? What is Phil "willing" to pay him or take in trade for DA?
Everything else is a moot point.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You seem awfully convinced ....... but let me offer just a couple of thoughts ......
People seem awfully convinced about what DA and his agent will, or will not accept. Maybe 3 years with a hefty signing bonus is their idea. After all, that way DA is protected if Quinn becomes the starter down the road, and he can be a 27 year old vetern QB with a track record of some success on the open market. I don't expect that the position of QB is going to become easier to fill in the coming years .... and a guy like DA could find himself extremely well positioned as an UFA. Look how Kitna made out. With the ever escalating salary cap, yesterday's 4 year 11 million deal becomes today's 4 year $25+ million deal, especially given the state of QB'ing in the league. 3 years from now that could be 4 years and $50 million.
Anderson's legitimate choices at this point are $2 million and a year of uncertainty ....... or a certain $7-15 signing bonus plus 3-4 years salary. (at least ... and my guesstimate) RFA with the highest tender rarely change teams ...... and I'm sure all parties know that.
I suspect that DA will be signed prior to free agency, and probably to a 3-4 year deal. It makes too much sense on everyone's part for it not to happen.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Pit,..I haven't heard anybody claim DA's a superstar. The FACTS are that he can win and has the #'s to prove it,...style points don't win games.
So you are totaly avoiding the questions. And you believe that having Steinbach, JT, our first 1300 yard rusher in decades and an extremly athletic TE and WR did not create an environment to get W's?
See, you dismiss everything but "Da's #'s". And then, you only wish to use ONE number to answer everything. Please address my questions. It makes for a better debate when you actually "address the questions". Unless you're running for public office.
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Bernie always looked terrible running AND throwing the ball,...but he got the job done and that's what REALLY matters.
Bernie was EXTREMLY accurate to make up for his lack of footwork. There is no comparison, at least to this point, between these two QB's.
But maybe you're on to something. Maybe, just maybe some of our older posters are stricken with "UDS". (ugly duckling syndrome) Maybe they feel since Bernie could "do it ugly" then so can DA?
However, for that to happen, IMO it would take a brain transplant and one HELLUVA lot of improvement in DA's accuracy to EVER compare the two QB's. DA is no Bernie. That much is for certain.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You have a valid point Ytown. But you have to look at other factors as well IMO.
How "secure" are DA and his agent that DA will win the starting position next year? If Quinn wins out, what will that do to DA's "UFA contract"?
Then there's the question of health. How secure are DA and his agent that "DA will be a healthy speciman" in three years? Isn't that a pretty big gamble to take?
That's the entire point here. There are positives and negatives that can come about no matter what we do. Will DA progress or digress? Is he willing to risk a possible "long term starter contract money wise NOW" for the gamble he's taking?
I can only speak for myself. But IF I felt I had the chance to "cash in", I wouldn't accept less. I wouldn't gamble that "my stock would rise" given the fact that my team had a "first round draft pick waiting in the wings".
You're point is well taken and is a distinct possibility. But when looking at the Shaub and Romo deal, I believe DA and his agent will go after what "they believe the market will bare."
Because bottom line to all of this is that "It's strictly business". And gambling that you'll remain healthy and productive for three years doesn't seem like a wise business decision IMO.
But we shall see...................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c...
I wonder if the contract pays more in the first year than the last year...
Just to entice DA to sign, we have all this cap room right now that we likely will not use up this year. It just makes sense to frontload the contract so we protect ourselves in the last 2 years.
They probably wouldn't sign such a deal but whatever, just throwing it out there.
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How "secure" are DA and his agent that DA will win the starting position next year? If Quinn wins out, what will that do to DA's "UFA contract"?
Then there's the question of health. How secure are DA and his agent that "DA will be a healthy speciman" in three years? Isn't that a pretty big gamble to take?
Exactly why he will sign.
If Anderson loses the starting job to Quinn ..... a heralded 1st rounder ....... and Quinn duplicates what DA did last year, does that diminish last year? Basically, if the Browns give Quinn the job, and he does any less than DA did, it strengthens Anderson's hand.
If Anderson signs and plays under a 1 year tender, he has zero protection outside of this season's $2 million. If he signs a 3 or 4 year deal ..... suddenly he's protected to the tune of $10 million or more.
Capable QBs will always have value. John Kitna did ... hell, even Drew Brees did while his arm was falling off. The only losing proposition for Anderson is if he starts next year .... and stinks up the joint. Almost any other senario offers him a bright future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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After reviewing the rest of the posts on this board, I'm come to the conclusion that none of us know beans..
I beg to differ Daman, I do so know that I don't know.
There is one thing I do know, and it is far from fact. But I would stake my poor reputation on nobody will give up a 1 and a 3 for DA, and then sign him to a sizable contract to boot. IF and I say IF we should find someone that is willing to pony up a 1 and a 3, you will hear a yell in Cleveland coming from me that will not be believed. To me the fantasy of getting a #1 and #3 is just that fantasy.
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
Hey Browns to the Bone, nice to meet you! I just wanted to say that I completely agree, I don't think we have a snowballs chance in hell of getting a 1st and 3rd picks for DA but who knows, stranger things have happened. (well, not really)  I'm alright if we keep him and I'm alright if we can get something for him, though I'm very intrigued to see what Quinn can do.
btw, are those your kids in your sig? if so, cute kids!
![[Linked Image from i89.photobucket.com]](http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k233/marctheshark1969/thrandelelisafaggot.jpg)
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So you are totaly avoiding the questions. And you believe that having Steinbach, JT, our first 1300 yard rusher in decades and an extremly athletic TE and WR did not create an environment to get W's?
Absolutely it made a difference.Like every other successful QB out there he had a worthy supporting cast.
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See, you dismiss everything but "Da's #'s". And then, you only wish to use ONE number to answer everything. Please address my questions. It makes for a better debate when you actually "address the questions". Unless you're running for public office.
10-5 as a starter, 7-1 at home, 29 TD's(or there about), nearly 4000 yds passing,respected by teamates,good leadership qualities,no off field issues,and an all around good guy. I think thats more than ONE. If anybody has only one leg to stand on here it's YOU.You hate his mechanics and grossly overplay accuracy issues with him. I watched evry game this year,...DA was more accurate than not.JEEZ,...what QB out there doesn't make the occasional errant throw?
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Bernie was EXTREMLY accurate to make up for his lack of footwork. There is no comparison, at least to this point, between these two QB's.
That's right,..Bernie NEVER had the year DA had this year.I guess Bernie didn't have that much talent around him,...rrght
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10-5 as a starter, 7-1 at home, 29 TD's(or there about), nearly 4000 yds passing,respected by teamates,good leadership qualities,no off field issues,and an all around good guy. I think thats more than ONE. If anybody has only one leg to stand on here it's YOU.You hate his mechanics and grossly overplay accuracy issues with him. I watched evry game this year,...DA was more accurate than not.JEEZ,...what QB out there doesn't make the occasional errant throw?
People aren't overplaying the accuracy card with him...
Another factor people forget about with the success of the O in the beginning of the year is Chud. Chud is the first time we've had a real OC in a LONG TIME, and it's Chud's first time in the NFL as a coordinator with his own offense.
Where am I getting at with that? It took teams awhile to figure out not only how to defend DA, but how to defend against Chud. No matter how brilliant an OC is, his tendencies are eventually exposed. Once that happens, it comes down to talent and execution along with the OC adjusting to how defenses have adjusted. Chud did that, hence why we ran the ball with success so much near the end of the year.
Who couldn't adjust to this change? DA. He struggled near the end, even in good weather. We even had more chances on offense the 2nd half of the year because our D was actually getting off the field.
That being said, DA is not as good as his first half, and he's not as bad as his second half. The truth lies somewhere in between. But I'll say it's somewhere closer to "bad" than "good," just based on what I've seen from his deficiencies.
That being said, if this is the truth and he's really a backup-caliber QB, I can sleep easy knowing he's the guy coming off the bench cuz you can run the entire offense with him and you can win games.
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#2 Anybody that thinks DA will receive even one offer sheet that would have to include a 1st and 3rd needs to get into rehab. He can stick his foot in the water to be sure to see what teams would perhaps be willing to offer him when he becomes a UFA, but no offers will be coming his way as a RFA, no way not ever...
That seems easy enough to say, but, at the risk if going to rehab, I can't say it wouldn't happen. I'm not saying it will, but I don't think it's so out of the question. If no one made an offer under those circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised. If someone did, I would not be surprised.
Look at what Houston coughed up for Schuab, who only had a small fraction of the real experience DA has. Two seconds and swapped first round picks. And paid him a crap load of cash. If Schuab can get that kind of value, then a 1st and 3rd for DA is not so far fetched.
A team in dire need for a QB would spend a 1st on an unproven coming out of college without a second thought. An unproven who could do nothing at the NFL level. Would an additional 3rd be that much to ask as insurance? To get you someone who has shown what he's capable of in the NFL?
JMO
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I answered all of your replies, but for some reason the site wouldn't accept my reply. I spent 25 minutes on it, and I refuse to rewrite it.
To put it in short terms........WAS I TALKING TO YOU?
#gmstrong
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Pit, a few posts up, you referred to something you call the "crystal ball boys" - people attempting/thinking they know what DA can do, will do, etc. You were poking fun - making fun of someone to get your point across that DA, in your opinion, is not as good as he played this year.
Your take, I believe, is to get draft picks for him so we can improve the d, and also so that Quinn can start. Now, here's the $64 question: Which crystal ball are you looking at in your belief that Quinn will be as good/better than DA was this year?
What factual evidence do you base that on? His 3 or 5 passes in real games?
Not picking a fight. Hear me out:
DA is a proven commodity. We know what we have with him. We've seen the good and the bad. We also have to understand that he was a first year PLAYER (notice I did not say it was his first year in the league). There is room for growth, and it will undoubtedly happen - how much growth is the question concerning DA.
So, do we dump our proven commodity in order to get some picks to shore up the d, while at the same time turning our offense over to an unproven commodity?
My answer is no. I'd like to see us keep both. If Quinn wins the starting job, so be it - we then know we have a good backup qb if need arises. If DA beats out Quinn again next year, well, good thing we kept him.
I'm not a numbers guy and I don't want to be - after all, the Browns aren't paying me to make the decisions.
But, before you negatively categorize someone as a crystal baller for wanting to keep DA, realize that those people that want to dump DA in order for Quinn to start are basing their opinions on the same crystal ball. (it's all based on Quinn's "upside", whch we haven't seen.)
Oh, and I cede to you that DA had some short throw accuracy problems during games. I personally don't see, with him being a first year PLAYER, that that is reason to get rid of him.
If and when Quinn is the starter, I'm sure in his first year as a PLAYER, we'll see deficiencies in his play as well. That doesn't mean we dump him for a new qb, does it?
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Just clicking... and I have just a thought, feel free to shoot it down or label me deaf, blind, and dumb Say you can get some value for Anderson (At the very least I want Round One) you have to have a plan in place. I have a good gut feeling on Quinn leading this team, but you can't put all your eggs into that basket and go Quinn is the man, Dorsey is our backup should anything go wrong. HELL NO you don't do that... it's Ken Dorsey for Pete's sake. So what kind of solution is there? There has to be a free agent acquisition at QB if you unload Anderson. I haven't heard enough talk about that, just rantings about how/why you need to get rid of the guy. I'm not sure what to do in that regard, I don't get paid to make that choice, but IF YOU DO trade him, you need to get someone else in here.... Looking at the list of possible free agent QB's... I see a few names as good possibilities.... and I give them to you in order of strongest preference... 1.) Josh McCown No, not Luke, but Josh. In Arizona he was doing well as the starter throwing the rock to Fitzgerald and Boldin. Boldin I think showed up on the scene with McCown throwing to him. He was doing well there, and that was before they even had an offensive line, and they had pretty much no running game. He didn't get the chance to really build on any success he had, and the next thing you knew, Warner took over, Leinart was drafted, and you know how that went. Then he had to go to Oakland, which is a "Black Hole" (pardon the pun) for any player, especially a QB with no protection, solid ground game, or pass receiving threats. I think there is potential there as a solid player, at the very least, a quality backup. He would come at an agreeable price and would give us a solid #2 option and we could even have him compete with Quinn for the job outright in camp. I see too many pluses arising from that option. 2.) Cleo Lemon/Rex Grossman Yeah those names sound a bit surprising... but they would work as backups/guys who could fill in a few games. With Lemon, the guy would come at an again agreeable rate, and has shown with Miami enough capability to do that. I mean he had no protection, ground game, receivers, NOTHING to help him. He could only do better in a better predicament. If you ask me... solid backup option. Now with Grossman, there's not too much interest for him, and he hasn't been anything great, but he's been a starter and done decent enough at it. I mean Chicago didn't have many great options to throw to, and Greise didn't do any better. He's still relatively young and has shown brief flashes at least, of very good things. Grossman is worth giving a shot as a backup or more competition come training camp and preseason, and would be able to do that for pretty cheap, too. Again, with these guys, there's a bit more to benefit than lose out on. 3.) Quinn Gray Hey, he is what he is, and that's a backup, but he adds mobility to the QB position, which is pretty solid. Didn't look great in his time filling in for Garrard, but as a backup, he's not too bad, wouldn't affect the cap much, and is worth a shot. The rest of the QB's don't do much for me, Culpepper is just past his time and might actually want money, is a health risk, and I'm just not too sure, though he has potential and has shown that before. Then I'd be interested in Jared Lorenzen, just because he's fat and that's intriguing to see as a QB . Lastly the Ivy League boy, Ryan Fitzpatrick. Hey, he showed a bit of a flash while in STL did he not? Correct me if I'm wrong... That's just my $0.02 on the situation IF you dump DA... Any more pennies on this matter?
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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I don't see the Browns giving him much more then a 3 year deal. I said it before and was jumped on by a few people for even saying it, and here it is 3 years, just like I said.
You also said that we'd offer to make Anderson the highest paid QB in 2008, so before you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back............. 
We remember many things that people say on this board, hehehe, and we remember who attempts revisionist history 
The moral to the story: Don't play the victim and the sage at the same time unless you're absolutely 100% right.
Truth be told, I can't think of more than one or two people that stated DA would get a long-term contract, and to be honest, a three-year deal is NOT a long-term contract, especially if it doesn't have a signing bonus built in. The vast majority believe the Browns would offer a short-term deal at decent but far from great money, for no other reason than we don't have to do anything because we can Tender Anderson.
So after all the talk, we're right back to square one, where most everyone thought we'd be.
When we see hard numbers or word of how the negotiations are going, THEN we'll have something juicy to talk about.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You're on the money, actually.
I know of a poster who said that Dorsey would become our backup if Anderson were traded or allowed to leave because of the contract we just gave him. My arguement is that you're team is dead in the water if your #3 is in the game, so Dorsey was extended for no other reason than his influence on the young QB's as a player-coach. So with that in mind, if Anderson.....or Quinn for that matter......are traded, Dorsey can be the #2 in name, but won't be #2 in reality. We'll go out and get a QB with enough arm to move the ball, since Dorsey has one of the weakest arms in the league. We've learned our lesson with Frye and trying to fit a noodle-armed guy into the system when he doesn't have pinpoint accuracy. There are enough veterans out there that have game. We'd get one of'em.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yes the kids are mine 2 months old and they already know who is the best team in football...LOL
No way anybody gives up a #1 and #3, not ever, no way.. Normally I go with the IMHO idea but not in this case. I have seen posts where people are saying that we can get a #1 and a #3 but it will never happen. That kills anything else they say, from there it's all just fantasy...
Brown to the Bone
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Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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You also said that we'd offer to make Anderson the highest paid QB in 2008, so before you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.............
We remember many things that people say on this board, hehehe, and we remember who attempts revisionist history
Thats right I did with NO signing bonus, thats the part you left out.... That would mean should we decide to trade DA we would NOT take a cap hit because of the signing bonus. I also said that after the year one contract we could sign him for a more reasonable price for the balance of the contract.
Let me ask this Toad, how much do you think it will cost in terms of a signing bonus to get DA??? I agree paying DA the top money as a QB in the league is STUPID, but not if you factor in a signing bonus, get the point??
Would it save us cap space later on if we rolled the signing bonus into contract dollars this season?
Did I revise or did you? Like I said in the original post 3 years, and you ripped into me for even saying it.. That is a fact, but hey you stick to your I revised bit it suits your style...
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The moral to the story: Don't play the victim and the sage at the same time unless you're absolutely 100% right.
#1 When I want advise from you about how to post I'll ask.
What I was trying to do at that time was to open up a debate. I even said don't rip me for dollars, but hey you did. And you in fact ripped me mostly for saying 3 years.... That toad my friend is a fact. I don't forget when someone takes what I actually said and twists it, and thats exactly what you did. Instead of presenting what you think is a more plausible contract you ripped into me for mine. If you where so certain that I was dead wrong you would think you would have had something more to offer then insults. In other words if I was so wrong then you must KNOW what is right. But as it turns out Toad I wasn't as far off as you made out I was.
Here is exactly what I wrote::
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not rip me for dollars it's just a concept not a set in stone deal. I think this is how you get a deal done tho.. A deal that has its good and bad points for both parties, the middle ground if you will.
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Truth be told, I can't think of more than one or two people that stated DA would get a long-term contract, and to be honest, a three-year deal is NOT a long-term contract, especially if it doesn't have a signing bonus built in. The vast majority believe the Browns would offer a short-term deal at decent but far from great money, for no other reason than we don't have to do anything because we can Tender Anderson.
So after all the talk, we're right back to square one, where most everyone thought we'd be.
When we see hard numbers or word of how the negotiations are going, THEN we'll have something juicy to talk about.........
Inspite of what you think Toad we can actually talk about anything we want, and hey we can talk about it without your approval too.
I think it adds something to talk about, and hey nobody really knows what will happen in contract talks. From what i have seen over the years contract talks can be pretty tuff, and insulting to both parties. For instance, DA agent is sure to mention that DA won 10 games for the Browns and the Browns are sure to come back with. Well he played so poorly in our biggest game of the year he cost us a shot at the playoffs. Thats how it goes. And there will be this is it take it or leave it, it's called posturing. Ah hell why waste my time Toad thinks it's a stupid thing to even talk about, and without his approval knowbody should talk about it...
Brown to the Bone
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Cap, you do understand that since the introduction of FA there has only been 1 time where a team actually signed a player to an offer sheet with the 1 and 3 price tag.
I understand what your saying, but its never going to happen.
Take a look at it from the standpoint of the team, that is in dire need of a QB. Pretend they are your team would you want them to mortgage the future of your team for a QB of DA's talent. I don't see any takers at that price, it is pure fantasy, to believe otherwise.. We would be extremely luck IMHO to get a 1st.
Believe me every single team that has entertained the idea of bringing in DA, has looked at the entire situation in Cleveland. He has a Stud line he playes behind, he has 2 of the very best recievers in all the NFL to chuck the ball too, and while not great a pretty decent running game to go along with everything else. And they know that he struggled at the end of the season. Having struggles at the end of the season, does lower his value, especially when you factor in all the tools he has to work with.
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
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LMAO. "You guys." Dude, for every DA supporter, there are 10 that rip him a new . mac was over the edge, but not any more so than some of "you guys" who manipulate stats and make crap up to denounce the guy.
vers...I was not over the top...just willing to step up and call BS when the BS is getting deep ...regardless of who is spreading the BS.
I'm definitely not a member of any organized group/gang on this message board...lol.
My points asking if Eli Manning is a bad QB...no one touched that one. Yet, Anderson in his first year as a starter is a "bad QB" and his performance was better than Eli's across the board.
Eli's numbers have not been the best but I do believe the Giants have showed remarkable patients with him, realizing the guy needs to mature. Now, just in the last few games, it's looking like Eli and his coaching staff are on the same page and a degree of maturity has surfaced just in time for the playoffs.
It does take time for young QBs to mature, but try telling that to the gangs in here. They will come up with 100s of reasons claiming DA is "no good"...and in the Browns case...that the rookie on the bench with no NFL experience is better.
It's my opinion that if the Browns keep Anderson and Quinn, this QB "controversy" will just grow among the fans and media. Savage could be in a no win position...regardless of what he does a faction of Browns fans are going to be upset.
If Savage deals Anderson and Quinn suffers a season ending injury in the second game of the season for example, the Browns 2008 season is likely down the drain. Then those same fans calling for Quinn will be claiming Savage is an idiot for getting rid of Anderson.
If Savage keeps Anderson, every little mistake the guy makes will be nit- picked and magnified and the call for Quinn will grow louder. If Quinn is our starter and the team loses a couple of games, the fans will be calling for a quick hook and back to Anderson.
The coaches (and a GMs) dream of having such depth at QB "knowing" bad things can happen to your QB at any time and having both QBs on the team would be what's best for the Browns chances of achieving their ultimate goal.
I have a lot of confidence in Savage' judgement and if he can get Anderson signed to a long term contract great. Let Savage and Crennel decide which QB will be our starter next season, not the fans. If Savage and Anderson's agent cannot agree on a contract, then Savage would give a high one-year tender and wait for his phone to ring.
And one of our 2 young QBs will be traded to the highest bidder....and the Browns hope our starter can remain healthy.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Mac I pretty much agree with everything you said. I would hope that everyone has at this point enough confidence in PS and RAC to allow them to make the best choices for this team, and to support them. But like you say it does present a no win situation for PS.
That doesn't change my preception that BQ presents a better option for the Browns over the long haul. But I will gladly and without question support any decision that PS and RAC make as it regards the QB position. It's like this if RAC was willing to pull the plug on CF, and I truly believe RAC loved CF, he will do the same again should it come to that. I will keep my mouth shut and support PS and RAC all the way. They do and should have the final say, and their choice won't be based on emotion, it will be based on what is best for the Browns over the long haul.. I ahve the utmost confidence in both these guys, I sure wished that my fellow fans could see the value to the team of supporting whomever is chosen to lead the offense, but hell it never does go that way...
Brown to the Bone
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Brown, I do understand what you're saying. And I'm not saying it will happen, or that it's even likely to happen. All I'm saying is that if it did happen, I wouldn't be surprised. Just as I wouldn't be if it didn't happen.
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