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I have been readng up on this subject off and on for the past 2 months or so. It is amazing how many people know nothing about what happened in China at the hands of the Japanese during WWII. The whole idea around this just blows my mind. Another case of unimaginable human cruelty. I won't post the article because it is really long, but here is the link. Article
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I've read something simular to this before, talking mostly on the ways Japan would spread disease, fleas, rats, roaches, cats, dogs, birds, it's actually pretty scary to think something like this could still happen today.
We always heard about Germany growing up, and rightfully so they were apauling, but other countries have done just as terrible things during war time....and lets not think the USA has never done anything terrible either, there are many things goverment hids from us, there are things we dont know things we shouldnt ever know
Mans sins against man....
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That was one of the things I found most disturbing about this whole situation. Our government traded mass murders their freedom for their research. These sick scientists killed and mutilated thousands of people in the name of "science" and the government let them get away with it. I'm not a person who is anti-government or anything like that, but that fact just plain disturbs me, almost as much as the facts of what went on in these camps.
I have a book coming in a few days that is all about Unit 731, so hopefully it will tell a little more. Most of the research I have done on the internet is the same old stuff over and over again.
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I heard that Unit 731 once wanted to know more about the workings of a human heart & lungs so they strapped a man down on a table and split him wide open, keeping him alive for days while they watched the heart lungs & other oragan work to stay alive.
Now how much of these stories are true and how much is added to make them intresting is up for interpatation, but it wouldnt suprise me.
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I have always been amazed at the lack of news on the Japanese mass murder as compared to Germany .. I guess no one cared what happened to millions of folks in China ! .. I know my Father-in-law landed in China with the Marines as a young man of 18 . He had a hate for the Japanese that he took to his grave.
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Quote:
I heard that Unit 731 once wanted to know more about the workings of a human heart & lungs so they strapped a man down on a table and split him wide open, keeping him alive for days while they watched the heart lungs & other oragan work to stay alive.
Now how much of these stories are true and how much is added to make them intresting is up for interpatation, but it wouldnt suprise me.
Actually, those stories are quite true. Not sure about that exact story, because your body would go into shock from being split open for very long. There have been researchers who admitted to doing live vivisections on people, without anethesia. They would inject patients with biological weapons, then wait a few days and do the vivisection to see what the weapons did to the person's insides. They didn't use anethesia because they were afraid it would alter their reasearch.
They also did many experiments with frostbite, where they would tie people outside and pour water on their limbs until they were basically frozen, and then try to find ways to cure it. Men, women, and even children and babies were used in the experiments. Mindboggling to me.
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I take it that were all History channel buffs here....LOL.... I go to our local library and rent the Civil War movies like Gettysburgh ect every winter... 
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Quote:
I take it that were all History channel buffs here....LOL....
I go to our local library and rent the Civil War movies like Gettysburgh ect every winter...
Haha, actually, I don;t get the History channel here. My basic cable plan sucks. I just find certain parts of history very interesting, and like I said, I have been researching Unit 731 for a few months off and on.
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Quote:
I have always been amazed at the lack of news on the Japanese mass murder as compared to Germany
True, but if it makes anyone feel better, we put a stop to the Japanese w/ a much bigger BANG (2 actually) than we did w/ the Germans.
Speaking of the Japanese in WWII, anyone seen Speilberg's "Empire of the Sun"? It is mostly about a Japanese POW camp. One of my favorites from him and so underrated in my book. Christian Bale's the lead in it as a little kid.
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Lee should have a few things to say about this subject, I think he's a war buff
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You know I have said that myself many times. My Grandpa fought the Japanese and they came across a lot of torture and things in the Philippines. I read a lot about WWII and a lot of those things (I am in no way downplaying the Holocaust at all here) are 100X worse than what the Nazi's did.
The rape of Nanking(sp?), ripping babies out of the womb and smashing their skull in front of the dying mother, raping a fathers young daughter and then ripping out her intestines in front of him, they were savages at times.
And the sad fact is the Govt of Japan still refuses to admit to a lot of it. like it never happened.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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They didn't limit actions to just the Chinese because there is evidence that they used U.S. POW's in some experiments also and yet after the war the "doctors" of the unit were given alot of help by the U.S. and some even came here to continue the work they did during the war . Strange way to treat folks guilty of crimes against humanity if you ask me.
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I have to admit I didn't understand the full scale of what the Japanese did in WWII until I read a couple books that HIGHLY recommend:
1) Ghost Soldiers;
2) The Rape of Nanking
After you read those two books, you will be absolutely horrified, disgusted, and angry. The Rape of Nanking says that many of the Japanese in charge of that horrible event lived in what was essentially splendor in Japan after the war. The U.S. didn't really do much with them and the Japanese never had a problem with what they did.
Lighting American POWs on fire, putting firecrackers inside of humans and letting them explode, sticking hoses down people's throats and drowning them slowly, etc. What the Japanese did was simply horrible and downright unforgiveable. And, it might not make much sense, but it's one of the top reasons I absolutely refuse to buy Japanese cars.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Both good books IMO. The Japanese at the time were still in the warrior mode . They had nothing but contempt for the POW's because in their minds real soldoiers would have chosen death over capture so these prisoners were not real soldiers or even real men . That came back to bite them later in the war as a take no prisoners approach was by and large the rule by both sides and many Japanese soldiers sold their lives at a dear price and that was the major consideration about bombing them back into the stoneage and I'm not just talking about the atomic bombs ( which were not really necessary ).
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Quote:
My Grandpa fought the Japanese and they came across a lot of torture and things in the Philippines.
Mine did too. He actually has a picture that he took of a Japanese soldier stabbing a native of some Pacific island with a bayonette.
The next shot he took wasn't with the camera . . .
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Legend
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Quote:
I have always been amazed at the lack of news on the Japanese mass murder as compared to Germany .. I guess no one cared what happened to millions of folks in China !
You want the real answer or the PC answer? The real answer is simple.. the Germans killed the Jews and the British, the French, the Polish, etc.. those were the ancestors of most Americans... the Japanese killed the Chinese... I think it's pretty self-explanatory why one garnered all of the attention.
yebat' Putin
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Yup, and the fact that Germans looked like us and the Japanese didn't so it was easier to hate the Japanese but the Japanese mindset was as different to ours as their looks were .
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Read 1) Ghost Soldiers; the movie didn't do it justice !
Will have to pick the other ..
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.. " I think it's pretty self-explanatory why one garnered all of the attention.. "
.........................................
Oh I understand , but am still some what amazed ! .. The fact that Japan still refuses to admit to the historical acts should tell folks something about the Culture ...
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well, part of it I would suspect is that back then, the world was much larger, information travelled much slower, countries were able to restrict greatly what information came and went... Now, we have the computer age, satellites, etc.. communication is in an instant, with photos and film... yet most people still don't have any idea what is going on in Sudan...
yebat' Putin
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I don't know that it is ignorance so much as it is apathy . The civilized world was quick to step in when the Balkans were in chaos but those same countries have taken the problems of Africa and treats it as a spectator sport.
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that was my point... 40-50 years ago you could have used ignorance as an excuse.. now you can't and people still don't care unless it in some way affects them...
yebat' Putin
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Look at how many people were killed under Pol Pot in Cambodia, there are too many of these types of incidents throughout history where people were not helped.
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No need to look to history.. just check out Darfur if you wanna see genocide today..
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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No need to look to history.. just check out Darfur if you wanna see genocide today..
If only the world had a body of diplomats representing the most powerful nations of the world that could convene regularly and monitor these things and provide intervention to stop the atrocities... I'm sure that would solve the problem. 
yebat' Putin
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I heard tell of a group like that once 
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Another example is what go's on in Latin America .. The States only get the tip of the ice berg ( thank you media ) .. I live here , and I can tell you first hand about Anti Americanism .. Not the individual ( like myself ) but the Bush Admin. & This Congress
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There is a movie about this camp entitled "Men Behind the Sun" its supposed to be one of the most disturbing movies ever made. haven't seen it, but would like to.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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After reading this review of the movie, even I don't have the stomach to see it. web page
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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After reading this review of the movie, even I don't have the stomach to see it.
web page
If you would rather, I just got a book called A Plague Upon Humanity: The Hidden History of Japan's Biological Warfare Program by Daniel Barenblatt for about $5 including shipping off of Amazon. I'm only a couple chapters in but it tells a lot about Ishii, the mastermind behind the whole thing, and is starting to go into more about the actual camps and such now. Well wortht he money if you want to read a little bit about it rather than see it.
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The russians were bad to I cant believe we allied with them 
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I wouldn't call Unit 731 another Auschwitz, I'm a big WW2 buff and know a lot about both. Visiting Auschwitz, it wasn't the fact that 2-3 million people died there (sorry don't have it off hte top of my head exactly), but it was the way the Germans did it. They had a method, they were precise. It was a systematic machine. They actually kept close to perfect records. These people were very civilized, just like us. It's hard to conceive how something like that could happen with these people. I couldn't believe it.
Japan vs China vs China was a barbaric war on all accounts. Much different than the Western Front, POWs were not taken. Notice I said China vs China, the Nationalists and Communists were just as ruthless to eachother during this time as well. Often there's a generic video shown of a Japanese soldier cutting off two Chinese heads with a samurai sword. This video is actually of a nationalist killing two communists. China was such a huge ununified country. The average Chinese person's (peasant farmer) problem back then wasn't the Japanese, Nationalists, or Communists. It was the lawlessness and bandits that constantly were looting their towns because they had no protection or order. And that's with the 10 million or whatever Chinese that were killed. China is a massive country and none of these people during this time IMO had any regard for human life.
All of those people sucked, whether we're talking Emperor Hirohito and the Japanese, Mao, or Generalismo Chiang. None of them honestly cared about human life. Chiang wasn't concerned with making advances on the Japanese, he decided to hold out for the USA to come and try to squash the Communists. He often made threats of pulling out of the war and making a deal with the Japanese. He was a hated man and few joined the Nationalist Army willingly. Don't think that that Nationalist Party was this righteous government, They were not. During WW2, Shing Wei (Occupied China President and I think the name's close) was probably the one who cared the most about their people, but he gets a bad reputation because he was willing to deal with the Japanese. In all fairness to him though, someone had to represent the people and do what they can with the Japanese
PS: Many might not know, many 731 scientists weren't put on trial for war crimes and those that did by the US got off lightly. The man whom headed the unit (a ruthless SOB as well) sold his data to the US Gov and got off scoff free. It was an awful place, they simply tested diseases on people and did their own.....disections to learn about the human body. This was done with Chinese, Soviet Civilians in Eastern Russia and Allied POWs (British/American/Australian/Soviets).
The Soviets put more of the scientists on trial than we did, probably because they never got their hands on the priceless data. It's sad that we did it, but these are experiments the US probably never could do no matter how much they wanted.
PSS: I don't know if this was mentioned but the towns around 731 supplied the testers. And those that were tested weren't just tested in 731, they actually tested their diseases on the surrounding towns (Effectiveness and methods of release)
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 01/27/08 12:36 PM.
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Thank you Petey for the insight. I am of Asian descent and know very little of the history. My mother, who is from Hong Kong, has told me very little of her life growing up. She has told me her father had a wife and some children that were killed, and he later married my grandmother and had 3 children with her(including my mother).
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I hope that was not sarcastic, if you are I didn't mean to offend. It's certainly a touchy subject.
As I've said, history buff and I've studied it. My teacher grew up in Taiwan and his family lived through it as well (on mainland China). Just saying the way that I interpret it. The brutality on the Asian front wasn't very organized and that's the major difference with the Germans IMO. The Japanese were as bad as they come in my book. But the Chinese sides simply weren't much better either. Terrible situation for the Chinese trying to live through it as they were being robbed and killed by their own Nationalist Government.
That's why the people of Taiwan don't understand why they have so many Chiang monuments around. People sometimes try to glorify him but he shouldn't be glorified at all.
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There was no sarcasm in my reply, and there was no offense taken.  After reading your post and some of the others in this thread, I realized I don't know enough about my ancestors's history and culture, and I am willing to be enlightened. I'm not sure how intertwined China was with Hong Kong back in those times, as I know HK fell under British rule until 1999(?). Anyways, thaks for your input.
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If you're interested in Occupation of China from European countries by Japan and WW2, there's a Christian Bale and John Malcovich movie called Empire of the Sun. Christian Bale plays a British boy in HK (I believe) when the Japanese take over Shang Hi China.
It's very interesting and gives a good perspective before Japan attacked the USA and European countries. Check it out, it's a really good flick.
PM me if you have any questions
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I wouldn't call Unit 731 another Auschwitz, I'm a big WW2 buff and know a lot about both. Visiting Auschwitz, it wasn't the fact that 2-3 million people died there (sorry don't have it off hte top of my head exactly), but it was the way the Germans did it. They had a method, they were precise. It was a systematic machine. They actually kept close to perfect records. These people were very civilized, just like us. It's hard to conceive how something like that could happen with these people. I couldn't believe it.
Japan vs China vs China was a barbaric war on all accounts. Much different than the Western Front, POWs were not taken. Notice I said China vs China, the Nationalists and Communists were just as ruthless to eachother during this time as well. Often there's a generic video shown of a Japanese soldier cutting off two Chinese heads with a samurai sword. This video is actually of a nationalist killing two communists. China was such a huge ununified country. The average Chinese person's (peasant farmer) problem back then wasn't the Japanese, Nationalists, or Communists. It was the lawlessness and bandits that constantly were looting their towns because they had no protection or order. And that's with the 10 million or whatever Chinese that were killed. China is a massive country and none of these people during this time IMO had any regard for human life.
All of those people sucked, whether we're talking Emperor Hirohito and the Japanese, Mao, or Generalismo Chiang. None of them honestly cared about human life. Chiang wasn't concerned with making advances on the Japanese, he decided to hold out for the USA to come and try to squash the Communists. He often made threats of pulling out of the war and making a deal with the Japanese. He was a hated man and few joined the Nationalist Army willingly. Don't think that that Nationalist Party was this righteous government, They were not. During WW2, Shing Wei (Occupied China President and I think the name's close) was probably the one who cared the most about their people, but he gets a bad reputation because he was willing to deal with the Japanese. In all fairness to him though, someone had to represent the people and do what they can with the Japanese
PS: Many might not know, many 731 scientists weren't put on trial for war crimes and those that did by the US got off lightly. The man whom headed the unit (a ruthless SOB as well) sold his data to the US Gov and got off scoff free. It was an awful place, they simply tested diseases on people and did their own.....disections to learn about the human body. This was done with Chinese, Soviet Civilians in Eastern Russia and Allied POWs (British/American/Australian/Soviets).
The Soviets put more of the scientists on trial than we did, probably because they never got their hands on the priceless data. It's sad that we did it, but these are experiments the US probably never could do no matter how much they wanted.
PSS: I don't know if this was mentioned but the towns around 731 supplied the testers. And those that were tested weren't just tested in 731, they actually tested their diseases on the surrounding towns (Effectiveness and methods of release)
I used the title because Unit 731 was a lot like Auschwitz. They killed thousands of people, often very gruesomely. Josef Mengele and his scientists also held terrible experiments in Auschwitz, much the same as Ishii at Unit 731.
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