|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Honestly, "IF" Ammo someone anyone was willing to pony up a 1 and 3 for DA, I would take the chance and the BQ era would begin this season. I honestly believe that the Offense made the player and not the player made the offense. I think we have an ideal situation for any middle of the road QB to be successful, and thats what DA is at this point, a middle of the road QB, he is average at best.
Should it come to pass that the Browns can't get DA under contract, they will look to deal him I think. It's jut a guess, and I would prefer to keep him, even if we loss out on any compensation. I am well aware of the success rate of 1st round QB picks, I am also aware that in most instances when QB's fail they are put into a less then ideal situation, that is not the case in Cleveland. This team has been built around protecting the QB, and running the ball. You just can't come into a better situation as a QB. Having said that I think BQ will be better over the long haul, and he most certainly will be more consistant.
If you stand back and really take a long hard look, I think you will come to the conclusion that will be just fine, with or without DA. Having said that I hope like hell your right and someone makes a huge reach and signs DA to an offer sheet. I think will be a better team over the long haul if they do.
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,276
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,276 |
Quote:
I could be wrong, but weren't you part of that group w/Pit, tab, and others that was saying that DA was history, just three weeks ago?
If not, I apologize.
Saying "He'll be history?"
Not quite. But saying that I don't believe our FO and DA's agent can come to some "common ground"? Yes.
Phil did nothing but "state the obvious". Would we all like to see a "reasonable deal" to keep DA here? Yes.
But it is only reasonable to realise that Phil has already "seriously considered" what DA's value is to the Browns. And he stated "all possible outcomes" of the scenario between DA and the Browns. I mean what other options are tere Vers? Tender him or sign him anywhere from 2-7 years. Isn't that "all of the options" to keep him here?
But does that mean he's seriously giving thoughts as to entertaining "all of those options"? Of course not. He already knows his limitations and boundries as what he is willing to offer DA and/or willing to take for DA. It's as simple as that.
Nobody has said "give him away". Or that "he's a bumb" that I know of. Some feel he's better than others. Some see issues they feel "has impact as it pertains to his value".
But as has been pointed out, it's a QB starved league, which often times creates a situation where people will "overpay" at certain positions. And we both know that the QB position is already the highest paid position on top of the poor draft class at the QB position.
So the market is "prime" for DA. I can see where Phil will not want to go more than three years. Yes, he might go four, but neither of us can be sure. I have no problem with DA staying here.
But let's be honest here. RAC has had a year to work with Quinn. Two years to work with DA. They have seen the strengths, weaknesses, development, mentality etc..... Now don't twist this into something it's not. I'm not trying to say that anything at the QB position is "set in stone".
But what I am saying is, I believe it is quite safe to say they have "a long term direction" in mind given their full understanding of all of the variables I have mentioned above. This too will play a factor at "what they value DA's worth" to be for the Browns.
And I believe when you look at "the recsent market" for QB's combined with "what Phil may see DA's value to us" to be, there is little likelihood of seeing eye to eye on a happy medium.
I don't believe the reported "3 year 15-20 mil. offer" is the "bottom line". Yes, they are negotiations. But I think it's pretty unrealistic to think Phil will "drasticly" change that offer. Yes, we can "hope" DA accepts something "less than stellar" (which is putting it mildly when comparing this offer to other recent QB signings). But it's actually not very realistic when you stop and think about it.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Quote:
Honestly, "IF" Ammo someone anyone was willing to pony up a 1 and 3 for DA, I would take the chance and the BQ era would begin this season.
No one will argue that point. If we tender him at the highest level, and DA signs an offer sheet with someone, then he is gone. The offer could be for minimum wage, we wouldn't match it. We'd take the two picks and, as much as I like what DA has done for us, I'd drive him to the airport myself.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089 |
Just clickin...
No, I'm not sure if this has been spoken of previously but does anyone think that the opposite of what we're talking about may happen - namely BQ gets traded in the offseason.
I mean, he's better than any QB in this draft class, he's already signed to a pretty cap friendly deal and he's got a year of seasoning on the bench.
So if someone comes to Savage's door and offers a high first for BQ, do we take it?
Me...I'm not sure... but I'd definitely consider it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
I just can't see BQ getting traded. But we don't know.
WE as an organization know what he is or isn't capable of. These other teams have his college film and some preseason to go on. Our guys see him every day in camp in Berea. DA is more widely known around the league since he's started, so I think teams have a QB that they will know more about with DA. Quinn is a first round pick, #22, who hasn't gotten to prove himself yet. So I can't see a team giving up more than that.
DA on the other hand can fetch more. Tendering him can give us a first and a third.
I've liked what I've seen in Quinn in his limited time. I like what DA brings, but something in his game makes me nervous. I hope we get to see more of Brady in the near future.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089 |
Quote:
I like what DA brings, but something in his game makes me nervous.
Probably the same thing I see.... Scott Mitchell.
See, I wonder if DA is the more valuable commodity to tell you the truth. If we question our QB, why wouldn't other teams? Towards the second half of the year, it seemed that defences had figured out DA alot better and started to limit his effectiveness by taking the deep ball out of the picture.
Plus everyone knows that DA is looking for big bucks, whereas BQ is signed to a very reasonable contract.
So if I'm, say, the Atlanta Falcons and I want a franchise QB... do I want Anderson or Quinn to build around?
Honestly, I don't think its that easy of a call.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
Well, I pray that we build OUR franchise around Quinn. JMO.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,853
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,853 |
Quote:
Well, I pray that we build OUR franchise around Quinn. JMO.
Where have you been man? Offensively, our franchise is already built.   
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,337
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,337 |
Quote:
Quote:
Honestly, "IF" Ammo someone anyone was willing to pony up a 1 and 3 for DA, I would take the chance and the BQ era would begin this season.
No one will argue that point.
Joe Thomas #73
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542 |
Quote:
No, I'm not sure if this has been spoken of previously but does anyone think that the opposite of what we're talking about may happen - namely BQ gets traded in the offseason.
I cant' see that. Not that it woudn't or couldn't happen, but I don't see it.
DA did a pretty good job last season and I may be in the minority here, but I think he's capable of better.. But honestly, I get the sense that BQ is on a whole other plane in terms of potential.
I know that we've only seen him for one series in a game that meant nothing, but he did a fine job once he got past the gitters he HAD to be feeling. (I know I'd have been so excited my skin would feel like it was crawling)...
So for me it's a lot more of a feeling then anything else. To tell the truth, when BQ was in there, I felt comfortable.. I honestly can't explain it any better than that. And I can't say I've ever felt comfortable with any Back up QB ever..
Very unscientific I know,, but it is what it is.. I think that if they had to chose between BQ and DA... DA is gone... JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Quote:
No, I'm not sure if this has been spoken of previously but does anyone think that the opposite of what we're talking about may happen - namely BQ gets traded in the offseason.
I cant' see that. Not that it woudn't or couldn't happen, but I don't see it.
DA did a pretty good job last season and I may be in the minority here, but I think he's capable of better.. But honestly, I get the sense that BQ is on a whole other plane in terms of potential.
I know that we've only seen him for one series in a game that meant nothing, but he did a fine job once he got past the gitters he HAD to be feeling. (I know I'd have been so excited my skin would feel like it was crawling)...
So for me it's a lot more of a feeling then anything else. To tell the truth, when BQ was in there, I felt comfortable.. I honestly can't explain it any better than that. And I can't say I've ever felt comfortable with any Back up QB ever..
Very unscientific I know,, but it is what it is.. I think that if they had to chose between BQ and DA... DA is gone... JMO however.
No I know exactly what you're talking about.
It's that "it" factor. There's something you can just feel about the kid, there's a buzz that I've never felt about a Browns QB before. Not Couch, not Holcomb, not Garcia, not even Frye (another "local kid"). I felt it in the preseason against the Lions in the stadium. Suddenly the stadium got rowdy, and what he showed in that game confirmed our excitement, basic coverages, 3rd strings be damned.
Then after the entire body of work in the preseason confirmed our excitement more, and perhaps helped our comfort level when he came in in the regular season. Then again after he shook off the cobwebs he played very well and should have been 4-7 with a TD. Once again he looked polished even if he was a step slow on the should be TD to Edwards, the ball was still catchable.
Watching his footwork, how he goes through his progressions, his composure, his accuracy (the seam route to Winslow against Denver), his deep ball (the perfect should-be TD to Jurevicius against Denver). You just get the sense that "man, this kid is gonna be good."
This takes nothing away from DA or paints DA as a bad guy or a bad QB...it just makes us believe that Quinn is that much better.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542 |
Well you probably went into more detail than I would have, but the feeling thing isn't very scientific at all.. I can't point to any one thing that says,, he's the guy! But I can't help feeling the way I do.. I want this understood however.. I'm not in any way shape or form, bashing DA.. DA was exciting to watch this past year. And I have no problem at all having him be our starter next season if that's how it comes down. NONE.. No reservations at all.. I get the feeling that if he's here, he's gonna have to earn the job, and that's how it should be.. But if he does,,, I'm good to go with it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
You just get the sense that "man, this kid is gonna be good."
I get the sense that "man, maybe this kid is going to be good."
Sometimes I get the same sense from Derek Anderson.
The 'it' factor, the buzz, the marketability...that stuff just makes it easier for some to hope...I have a mountain of questions regarding Brady Quinn, and I have very little hard data to establish an answer. I also have questions about DA, and I also have little hard data to establish an answer. I know a bit more about him, but in a very short span of time. Any growth, potential ceiling or any buzzwords one uses are speculative nonsense.
Brady Quinn, one way or another, is going to see face time next year. Until then I lean towards DA, who I have a better understanding of. If there are picks involved, I'm certainly eager to listen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,061
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,061 |
Quote:
WE as an organization know what he is or isn't capable of.
I disagree. I don't think he has been around long enough to make an evaluation on him. I also don't think there is any chance of us trading him for the very same reason.
DA isn't a finished product yet. I believe Savage knows this. I also don't think Savage will bet the farm that he can be a lot better. Signing DA to a reasonable contract is the right thing to do and I think Savage knows it. If that is unatainable then I believe he will be tendered.
I really can't see us getting a 1st and 3rd. If someone does offer him a contract would we really be crazy not to take it? If another team sees that kind of value in him does that mean Savage doesn"t? My opinion is that we would take the draft picks, but if push comes to shove is Savage going to put all his eggs in Quinn's basket?
I take Savage at his word that he wants DA back. I also don't think he is sold on DA yet. I don't think anyone of us knows how he feels about Quinn right now. If his hand is forced will he be willing to take the chance that the team could take a huge step back if he doesn't bring DA back? I'm not saying that he thinks Quinn is not ready but we really don't know what he thinks.
My personal opinion is that we would be very lucky if he gets tendered that we don't get any offers. This way we can bring him back for one more year at a resonable price of 2.5 mil or so.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,800
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,800 |
It's funny that you mention Scott Mitchell, I was talking to a good buddy of mine earlier today and his name came up, in a DA conversation, not that they are the same style, but MItchell is the epitome of what a one year wonder QB is. I also see DA could also be a Scott Mitchell type guy and would unload him right now, if possible. I think Detroit, StL, Chicago, Atlanta Carolina Baltimore (but I doubt we would trade him back) are teams in dire needs of a QB, Miami, Minnesota and the Jets could have interest depending on how they feel about their youngsters, but after that, it seems like everybody else has their number 1 QB set in stone
The question boils down to this, do we trade DA if there are any takers this year, or wait till the year after and hope his value doesn't decrease, and since I am a betting man I could see it, this happens to players all the time, because eventually one has to leave, and with what we already invested in Quinn, I don't see him being the odd man out.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542 |
Quote:
The question boils down to this, do we trade DA if there are any takers this year, or wait till the year after and hope his value doesn't decrease,
Depends on what someone is willing to give for him! A 1 and 3 in this draft would be good. But now you have to weigh that against not having a back up QB in the stable anymore. (meaning that Quinn would start and whos your back up gonna be)..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Did the Chiefs do something in the offseason to solve their QB situation? I'm pretty sure it's still Brodie Croyle and Damon Huard. If I'm the Chefs I'm making an exploratory phone call to Savage about DA and BQ.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542 |
No, they didn't do anything that I've heard.. As far as I know, it's still Huard and Croyle.. But they actually seemed pretty high on Brody.. and we all know that Huard is good enough to be a back up...
So unless they have changed th ier minds on Croyle,, My guess is we won't hear from them... just a guess however.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,932
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,932 |
I've said it before, and I'll say it again .......
Whichever way Savage goes with the QB decision ...... he better be right. If the guy who leaves outplays the one who stays ... even if the fans are clammoring for Quinn and it's Anderson who goes elsewhere ....... if the guy who goes outperforms the one who stays, there'll be hell to pay.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
From the Columbus Dispatch... http://blog.dispatch.com/jwalker_browns/2008/02/anderson_contract_talks_stalle.shtmlAnderson contract talks stalled Contract negotiations between the Cleveland Browns and quarterback Derek Anderson have reached a standstill, a source told The Dispatch today. More than two weeks ago, the Browns made an introductory contract offer of three years for $16 million with $11 million guaranteed. The Dispatch reported last week that Anderson and his representation turned down the offer and is seeking a longer-term contract in the range of five years. Since then no progress has been made as the two sides remain apart in both years and salary, according to the source. Anderson is due to become a restricted free agent on Feb. 29. Anderson was 10-5 as a starter and threw for 3,787 yards and 29 touchdowns last season. He was added to the AFC Pro Bowl roster this week in place of New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, who opted out of Sunday’s game with a right ankle sprain.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542 |
Ahh, he's human Ytown,, he may make a mistake, but in all seriousness, Savage has been pretty darn good so far. I mean, he made lots of moves that some people thought were outright stupid. Yet, we seem to be going in the right direction..
So all in all, I trust he will see the issue for what it is and act accordingly.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
EDIT: Nevermind, update already posted.
Last edited by Marjax; 02/07/08 07:33 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
The one thing no one knows is what BQ is actually doing .... the team does .. thats the one wildcard in weather we let DA go for picks or keep him around ... and I;ve stated my opinion on that many times ...
You're right; we don't know. What if they don't think he is ready? Does that effect what we do w/DA? What if we do feel he is ready? Then, do we try and move DA this year? And what if they aren't sure? Wouldn't you keep DA under those circumstances? Two of the three scenarios favor keeping DA. That doesn't mean much, but I would think they better be damn sure before they move DA.
Quote:
Bro I don't care what Opie says ... if we get offered a first for DA it is my opinion hes gone in a nanoo second ... U point to what Opie says as the bible .. well all his comments can also be construed as driving up the trade value ... "he hasn't scratched the surface" = please give us a 1st and 3rd ..
I understand that, Diam. But why make those comments in Marboro......at a freaking chapel? Do you know the size of Marboro? It's tiny. It is very rural. I wonder how many reporters were there? One perhaps?
Why not make those comments on the national stage? The Senior Bowl? In Arizona, during Super Bowl week? Those would be the places to make those comments if he was simply trying to increase DA's value. And do you really think other GMs are dumb enough to fall for that if posters on a message board can figure it out? *L*
Quote:
1. DA has definite value to us ... so we MAY want to sign him to a 3 or even a possibly 4 year contract ... I doubt we truely do at this point because we hold the HAMMER .... for this year and next ... and if we sign him to the 3 or 4 yr. contract and he fails as a starter or becomes a backup we get nothing for him ...
I don't see how his value decreases much by keeping him around. Especially if he doesn't start. It's not like he got worse. We could still trade him later.
Bro, I think it is in the best interest of the team to keep both QBs for now. Let the situation play out. I understand that you have no doubts about Quinn. Hopefully, you can understand why I do have doubts. It's not hate. It's the unknown. I also feel that DA is an unknown. He could get a lot, lot better or he could fall on his face.
The Scott Mitchell comments trouble me though. I know you didn't make them, but I am just putting them in here, because I don't feel like making another post.
Why are people only looking at the negative side? What if he turns into a Brady? I know I will get ripped for this, but I see similarities in the two. I certainly see DA more of a Brady than a Farve, as has been mentioned before.
I really don't think DA will be a Brady, but it is just as reasonable as the claim that he will be another Scott Mitchell.
The other comment that was made that bothers me is that BQ has "it," because the fans got excited when he came in. Bro, you can back me up on this.......what the fans think means very little to any coach. It might mean something to certain people in the FO and the owner, but no coach gives a rat's butt about how much the fans want a QB to be good.
Here's what I would do. I would keep both QBs. I would let them compete and start the best man. I would not move either QB before the end of the season. I would prefer keeping both for at least two to three years, although that may not be possible. I want the future of the Browns to go to the best QB. And we really don't know who that is yet. I agree w/Savage when he said that they would like to prolong the situation as long as possible. That is being smart.
Let me add this.............if BQ wins the job in preseason, I doubt anyone will make a peep about that. They will accept DA sitting behind BQ. However, if DA wins the job, I do think the BQ guys will be all over it and scrutinize every bad move DA makes and keep hollering for BQ to take over. That could prove to be a distraction for the team. I wish they wouldn't do that, but I can almsot guarantee they will. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
Quote:
No, I'm not sure if this has been spoken of previously but does anyone think that the opposite of what we're talking about may happen - namely BQ gets traded in the offseason.
I mean, he's better than any QB in this draft class, he's already signed to a pretty cap friendly deal and he's got a year of seasoning on the bench.
So if someone comes to Savage's door and offers a high first for BQ, do we take it?
Me...I'm not sure... but I'd definitely consider it.
I would be surprised if BQ is the one to go.
It has nothing to do of my opinion of DA or BQ (personally, I have no idea who will be a better QB down the road. I am not in either camp. All I do know is that I am thrilled at the year DA had. And if BQ played and put up the same numbers, I'd be just as thrilled).
I think DA has more value right now, just because he's played at this level, and had success doing it. Sure he had some weapons to work with, but he deserves a good chunk of the credit. BQ may or may not have more value than the guys coming out this year, hard to say. His pro experience is slightly more than theirs, 8 passes or whatever. Anyway, my point is that a team looking to us for a QB is likely to be more interested in DA than BQ.
We also have more invested in BQ than DA. Us doing that paints BQ as the future of the franchise. I think it would take more to get BQ out of our hands than DA. BQ is the guy with the contract, too. DA is not signed, and his demands would not go down if we dealt BQ. If we trade BQ, we better be ready to give DA the 5 year blockbuster deal his agents are looking for.
JMHO
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542 |
Just clicking: This is from the WTAM webpage: Savage, D-A talks are A-Ok Thursday 02-07-2008 10:52am ET (Cleveland) - Cleveland Browns General Manager Phil Savage says talks with QB Derek Anderson on a multi-year contract are "moving along ok." In his weekly appearance on the Wills and Snyder show, Thursday morning, Savage said the two sides have discussed contract lengths of 2,3 and 4 years with even some talk on a 6 or 7 year deal. The two sides hope to reach a deal before free agency begins February 29th. Anderson is one of 6 Browns players on the AFC squad in Sundays Pro Bowl in Hawaii. The 24 year old Anderson threw for 3,787 yards and 29 touchdowns after becoming the teams starter last season . If the Browns can't reach agreement with Anderson on a multi-year deal, the team could use its highest one year tender on the restricted free agent. That would require teams to give the Browns 1st and 3rd round picks to sign Anderson, but the Browns would also have the right to match any offer. Here's the link: http://www.wtam.com/pages/Browns.htmlI haven't done it yet, I will in the morning, but this is where you can hear Phil speak to Bill Wills on WTAM each thursday morning. CLick on the picture of Phil and you will get the interview...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,800
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,800 |
I thought of the Scott Mitchell issue, because it happened, no way am I stating that DA is on that road, but it does concern me. Our investment in Quinn makes this a difficult issue, Personally I wanna avoid a QB issue... Again I want the best man for the job, but the longer this issue goes the longer were gonna beat it like a dead horse.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
Ehh you know what I meant 
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
I do agree with a lot of what you said. I think DA has room to improve, but I don't think his ceiling is much higher. I do agree that Savage really does want him back. Not neccessarily to be the starter, but to compete to be the starter and be there in case of injuries. I also know that given the right situation and offer, he would be willing to make a trade or let him go.
You have to remember, even though we haven't seen much of Brady in gametime, the organization saw him everyday in mini camp, in the weight room, in training camp, in meetings and in the film room. They know a lot more about the kid than we know.
Knowing that DA is probably close to his ceiling and Quinn probably nowhere near it yet, Savage won't move Quinn. If someone goes, it will be DA.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
From the Columbus Dispatch...
http://blog.dispatch.com/jwalker_browns/2008/02/anderson_contract_talks_stalle.shtml
Anderson contract talks stalled
Contract negotiations between the Cleveland Browns and quarterback Derek Anderson have reached a standstill, a source told The Dispatch today.
More than two weeks ago, the Browns made an introductory contract offer of three years for $16 million with $11 million guaranteed. The Dispatch reported last week that Anderson and his representation turned down the offer and is seeking a longer-term contract in the range of five years.
Since then no progress has been made as the two sides remain apart in both years and salary, according to the source. Anderson is due to become a restricted free agent on Feb. 29.
Anderson was 10-5 as a starter and threw for 3,787 yards and 29 touchdowns last season. He was added to the AFC Pro Bowl roster this week in place of New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, who opted out of Sunday’s game with a right ankle sprain.
NRTU
Gotta love the media sensationalizing things 
Browns make an opening offer: Check
Anderson's agent declines opening offer: Check
So it's a standstill: Chec........wait a minute 
Things are moving right along. Don't buy this crapola.
I don't know HOW that $11 mil is guaranteed in the structure of the contract, whether it's SB money or other guaranteed years. As a result, I can't form an opinion on whether the contract is a good one or not. What I do know is that the Browns opened low 
I'm waiting on four years and $20 million guaranteed for Anderson to sign, otherwise it's the tag for him.
On a side note, frankly, I don't think the Browns really care about how Quinn looks right now. They know what they have based on his work during the year, and are moving forward with Anderson based on that history, not what he's doing this very moment.
These are negotiations to make Anderson the starter in '08. He deserved that opportunity. Beyond that.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Quote:
Just clickin...
No, I'm not sure if this has been spoken of previously but does anyone think that the opposite of what we're talking about may happen - namely BQ gets traded in the offseason.
I mean, he's better than any QB in this draft class, he's already signed to a pretty cap friendly deal and he's got a year of seasoning on the bench.
So if someone comes to Savage's door and offers a high first for BQ, do we take it?
Me...I'm not sure... but I'd definitely consider it.
No way do we trade BQ, for some of the very reasons you state (cap friendly), and because he has IMHO more potential then DA. I agree that remains to be seen, but I think that BQ will actually be way better then DA. I think the offense made the player, not the other way around. DA had great tools to work with, and pro bowl to the side he was great to start, and average or below average to end, and that is alarming, if you take the total package that is available to him into consideration what made him good?? and what will happen with a better then average QB takes over from here ?? I realise that it's hard to say, but I just see BQ as being a better option for the Browns over the long haul. We are about to find out thats for darned sure..
Lets asume though that the Browns will move the lessor of the 2 QB's, and at this point that is kind of a bit of a unknown. It seems though that the Browns are pointing at letting DA go. I would agree thats a guess, but I would be willing to take any and all bets that DA is the guy who gets moved in the end..
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
As always Vers you raise some good points, and I agree with most of them. At this point it truly is just best guesses on the parts of all. And hey their have been enough 1st round QB's that have fallen flat on their faces that it would be in the best interest of the Browns to wait and see. I believe that is what PS has said from the start. However, and it would be a real shocker to me, someone could sign DA to a offer sheet, and then the Browns would be in a position of either matching the offer or moving on with BQ. It could get real ugly if BQ flops. It is one of those deals that could cost a coach and a GM their jobs, thats for sure. But I don't think I need remind anybody that PS made a very very bold move to take BQ in the 1st place. My point being PS isn't affraid to be bold, and to take a chance. If the Browns where ever going to dig themselves out of the hole he had to be bold. On the face of it he made a great deal. Getting a QB last season was huge if you believe that QB's need a bit of seasoning ( I do ). That said, BQ should be ready to go come Sept. At the end of the day though I think that "IF" someone signs DA to an offer sheet the Browns will take the picks. While our QB situation would be as close to ideal as you could ever hope for by keeping DA, we are lacking in other areas and draft picks could add the missing piece to the Browns puzzle. I also know that if we don't make a move of any kind far worse things could happen. Having 2 talented QB's with potetial is a real nice problem to have, but triiiiiiiiickey as well. I think one of the things PS has said, and I agree, piloting the Browns Offense is a pretty good cockpit to sit in. You have a great Line, and graet weapons to work with. If a QB were ever going to be successful in the NFL this would be a great place to be. That said I think will be fine no matter the outcome of the QB deadbate. I also think PS is very aware of what DA or any QB will have to work with. He has gone out of his way to make the Browns solid on the offensive side of the ball, and I think ALMOST any QB would be successful with the tools we have in place for them to work with. Oh and Vers no matter who the Browns hang their hat on I will not be one of those that calls for the other guy. I admit I wanted to see BQ play last season at least at some point, but I never stopped supporting DA, I just simply wanted to see what BQ could or couldn't do. You have my word tho Bro I won't be clammering for the other guy. I am perfectly willing to support RAC and PS in whatever direction they turn the Browns in. I think fans give into kneejerk reactions way way to much. They don't know, but they think they do, and there in lies the danger. Whomever is the starter I will get behind him 1000%, and I hope like hell everybody else does as well. Like you said tho it's likely to get ugly.  JMHO Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,276
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,276 |
Quote:
The Scott Mitchell comments trouble me though. I know you didn't make them, but I am just putting them in here, because I don't feel like making another post.
Why are people only looking at the negative side? What if he turns into a Brady? I know I will get ripped for this, but I see similarities in the two. I certainly see DA more of a Brady than a Farve, as has been mentioned before.
I really don't think DA will be a Brady, but it is just as reasonable as the claim that he will be another Scott Mitchell.
Not really. How is Tom Brady's footwork, accuracy and short passing game?
His "obvious weakness after THREE years in the NFL", are clear indications that the odds are far better for the "Scott Mitchell" scenario than the "Tom Brady" scenario.
And sure, you can throw out a "Tom Brady" scenario in comparison for the sake of embarasement.
Quote:
The other comment that was made that bothers me is that BQ has "it," because the fans got excited when he came in. Bro, you can back me up on this.......what the fans think means very little to any coach.
Let's see, Phil gave up this years first and last years second because he DOESN'T think Quinn has "it"????
That "huge draft investment was made" BECAUSE Phil thinks he has the "it" factor, don't you think?
He must be young, dumb and full of that "markitability bug" you keep talking about huh?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,365
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,365 |
I should kick myself for even re-entering this deadbate, but here goes.... I really don't understand why the focus is all on what Anderson will or won't be. I don't see it as relevant, especially when not taken in the context of direct comparison to Quinn.
The question should never be a "can anderson be a Brady?" but it should be "can Anderson be more of a Brady than Quinn, or vice versa?"... but all of that is just far, far too subjective to even begin to answer validly.
To me, the only questions are this:
1. Do I think Quinn can do what Anderson did?
2. If all else is equal, and knowing I cannot keep both for the long term, which one will get me the most on the market at this time?
The answers to those questions for me are 1.) Yes 2.) Anderson.
Screw all the "but he did this for us" or "but we invested a lot of draft picks to get him" stuff..... If we have two QB's that we feel confident can get it done, then why on earth would we not cash one in to improve other areas of the team?
Here is where, for me, the decision slides to Anderson:
He is an RFA... as in, he is able to sign with anyone in less than 4 weeks.
Anderson just had a career year.
Quinn is signed long term.
Our schedule is significantly tougher next year, so the liklihood of a repeat performance is decreased.
There is no way in hell we can keep both long term.
If we are going to move one, we need to sell that one when he is worth the most.
While anything can happen, it is a fair assumption right now that Anderson's market value is at its peak.
It all boils down to the two questions at the top.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,276
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,276 |
Quote:
I should kick myself for even re-entering this deadbate, but here goes.... I really don't understand why the focus is all on what Anderson will or won't be. I don't see it as relevant, especially when not taken in the context of direct comparison to Quinn.
The question should never be a "can anderson be a Brady?" but it should be "can Anderson be more of a Brady than Quinn, or vice versa?"... but all of that is just far, far too subjective to even begin to answer validly.
Not entirely. If I understand you rational here, it's not that "subjective" at all. It's subjective to "us as posters",yes. But I am of the firm belief that Savage has "plans" for this team. I believe he has "plans" for people he invests so highly in. I do NOT believe that Phil Savage goes out and spends this years first and last years second on drafting a QB who he "does NOT feel" is head and shoulders above ANYTHING currently on our roster.
No, I don't think Phil Savage is an idiot and I believe he "has a plan". IF DA had even CLOSE to the same "potential" as Quinn, why in the hell would Savage make such an effort to secure Quinn in the draft last year?
Quote:
1. Do I think Quinn can do what Anderson did?
2. If all else is equal, and knowing I cannot keep both for the long term, which one will get me the most on the market at this time?
The answers to those questions for me are 1.) Yes 2.) Anderson.
On this much we agree.
Quote:
Screw all the "but he did this for us" or "but we invested a lot of draft picks to get him" stuff..... If we have two QB's that we feel confident can get it done, then why on earth would we not cash one in to improve other areas of the team?
Well, to an extent I agree, but not fully. The BROWNS took us to a 10-6 record. There's eleven guys on O, not one. Plus the field advantage Cribbs gave us on special teams. So I see it as "a team winning, not "ONE man".
But in the Quinn department, yes, Phil DID go to great lengths to aquire "one guy". Since I do not believe Phil Savage is a fool, I trust he had very sound reasoning and a plan in place BEFORE he went to such great lengths.
And I LOVE IT when a plan comes together!!!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,930 |
Quote:
Our schedule is significantly tougher next year, so the liklihood of a repeat performance is decreased.
Here's where all the hulabaloo starts and ends.
We don't know how good either qb is, or how good they will be.
We also can look at this year and say "man, our schedule is tougher next year". That goes as far as game 1.
I'll bet that most teams, last year, looked at their schedule and said "the Browns - that will be a patsie for us", and look what happened.
I understand we have some "tougher" teams next year - but they are only tougher based on this year. And we all know that this year means squat next year.
I say, do what you can to keep both qb's. If what you can do isn't what one of them is looking for, dump them for the best you can get - but keep in mind we need 2 good qbs. Every team does.
If an unrefusable offer comes for either one of them, take it. What's unrefusable? I don't know.
But, to say our schedule next year is without a doubt tougher than this year - that can't honestly be said. We/they have no idea who's going to be tough.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542 |
Quote:
IF DA had even CLOSE to the same "potential" as Quinn, why in the hell would Savage make such an effort to secure Quinn in the draft last year?
The answer may be as simple as, they didn't know until he played this year that he was gonna be what he is. (speaking of DA here).
Now ask yourself this,, if Quinn is in the draft in 2008 and DA just had the year he had.. do you think that savage would give up his first round pick in 2009 to get him?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,061
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,061 |
Quote:
Quote:
IF DA had even CLOSE to the same "potential" as Quinn, why in the hell would Savage make such an effort to secure Quinn in the draft last year?
The answer may be as simple as, they didn't know until he played this year that he was gonna be what he is. (speaking of DA here).
Now ask yourself this,, if Quinn is in the draft in 2008 and DA just had the year he had.. do you think that savage would give up his first round pick in 2009 to get him?
Great response and No. That's not to say that he thinks DA would have been better than Quinn but I simply don't think he would spend so much for him.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,276
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,276 |
Quote:
Quote:
IF DA had even CLOSE to the same "potential" as Quinn, why in the hell would Savage make such an effort to secure Quinn in the draft last year?
The answer may be as simple as, they didn't know until he played this year that he was gonna be what he is. (speaking of DA here).
Now ask yourself this,, if Quinn is in the draft in 2008 and DA just had the year he had.. do you think that savage would give up his first round pick in 2009 to get him?
Yes I do. He can see the same "limitations" that anyone not bias to the situation can.
He knows, pretty much as you do if you think about it for a minute, that if we have just a couple of injuries on the OL, then DA would have to "use his feet and throw on the run".
He knows the strengths and weaknesses of who he has on the roster and those he has drafted. There are very valid reasons he drafted Quinn. And those reasons really haven't changed.
We were EXTREMLY lucky to remain so healthy on the OL this year. Are you willing to bank on that year in and year out?
I'm not and I don't believe Savage is either...........
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,542 |
I don't think he would have spent the following years pic on a QB either..
Keep in mind, had Frye not gotten roughed up in the first game, we may have never seen DA,, And Frye may never had been traded.. For sure if we didn't pick Quinn, no way Frye gets unloaded... I don't see that at all...
But you just never know. Pit has a point in the his response to me that Savage and company see the same things he sees in DA... meaning the holes in his game.
I am pretty convinced that the reason DA played the entire year is because he played just well enough to afford the Browns the luxury to sit Quinn and let him learn from the bench.
But unlike Pit, I don't think DA is bad enough to dismiss so out of hand.. The guy has value.. any team that has a decent Oline would be a good place for DA... making his value greater to them. But I'd like to keep him..
Let him and BQ duke it out in camp and let the best man win. (for the record, I think BQ would win that battle, but that's just me)
I've said it before and I"ll say it again, I'm not really invested all that much in either guy.. I just want the best guy to start.. don't care what name is on the jersey....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,365
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,365 |
Quote:
Now ask yourself this,, if Quinn is in the draft in 2008 and DA just had the year he had.. do you think that savage would give up his first round pick in 2009 to get him?
Well, it's a silly hypothetical that has no bearing on the current situation, but the answer is an obvious No.
If you have a QB that has that kind of year, no you do not go and trade back up into Round 1 to grab another.... but, that is a completely different situation. Our situation is that we did it last year and THEN our QB had a stellar year; and now we get to figure out what to do about it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Star Status of Anderson still up
in the air.
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
