|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
J/C
Just a couple of comments. Grossi is the worst excuse for a sports reporter on the planet earth. Her stirs up more crapola then any other sports reporter in Cleveland, which wouldn't be so bad if he weren't so ignorant...
DA had a bad day, just like he had bad days to close the season. Can't help but wonder why? He sure didn't do much to raise his stock thats for sure. The int I don't really blame on him, if I saw it right NT told him to keep throw it down the field.
It's really strange though just like last year during OTA's everyone was praising the hell out of DA, and gave him the inside edge to be the starter. Then Preseason started and he stunk it up. Then during pro bowl week practice according to what the guys that called the game said he lifted more then one eye brow. The thing that struck me was they said that when they asked NT who he thought had thrown the ball the best during practice he said DA hands down.
EO and I had this converation earlier but it seems that DA is a great practice QB, but doesn't seem to be able to bring it to the field. "IF" we were ever able to unlock that door to getting DA to play like he practices according to EO, and apparently those watching practice at the pro bowl we might have one of the best in the game. That said we need more then a practice QB, he needs to bring it to the game. One can't help wondering why he doesn't seem to be able to do it. He has all the tools including accuracy believe it or not, it just never shows up at the game.. Perhaps theres someone out there that thinks they can unlock DA's potiential? Then again it would be a big risk to throw a #1 and #3 on the hopes that you can...
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,947
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,947 |
I still think that Anderson's arm wore down towards the end of the year.
1st year as a starter in the NFL after 2 years on the sideline ...... 527 attempts .... I think it added up by the end of the year.
Hopefully he gets on a good off-season program.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Quote:
I still think that Anderson's arm wore down towards the end of the year.
Could be, but I still don't understand why he seems to be able to throw the ball great in practice with accuracy, then he can't do it during the game. And that includes at the pro bowl practices as well.
I agree DA was a 1st year starter and perhaps he hit a wall mentally to close the season. I think his biggest problems are mental, not physical. And perhaps as the season went along he mentally wore down. It happens he needs to tuffen up, and let his ability take over. I realise that he had a lot thrown at him this past season, and I can see where that might have worn him down. Don't know, wished I did, but I don't think his arm wore down, thats for sure.
Quote:
Hopefully he gets on a good off-season program.
I hope he gets away from the game for a while, if what I think may be wrong, he needs to just get away...
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
He played better than Anderson.
Seriously...
And I know people are gonna jump on me for jumping on DA for his bad performance, BUT if he played lights out I would be just as quick to praise him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545 |
Quote:
He played better than Anderson.
Yes he did,, I hope people aren't looking at yesterdays game and thinking that's all DA is about..
Seems a bit small minded to me!! JMO however..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
Yes he did,, I hope people aren't looking at yesterdays game and thinking that's all DA is about..
Seems a bit small minded to me!! JMO however..
What seems small minded to me is to think he looked any different than he did the second half of the season.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
Quote:
Quote:
He didn't look nearly as good as the other guys in the game. He looked like the same guy I saw in a lot of our games this year.
FIRST year as a starter.
FIRST Pro-Bowl.
FIRST bout of the butterflies.
Let's give him another year before we judge him.
IMO of course. 
Like I said in another thread, there shouldn't be any nervousness here.
It's the Pro Bowl for crying out loud.
It's geared towards the offense. No blitzing, no press coverage. The game is an exhibition, it's all laid back, it's all for fun, there's no repercussions of losing. No pressure. He shouldn't be getting this "first Pro Bowl" crap as an excuse. He looked no different than he did in many games this season. He was all over the place.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
Quote:
I still think that Anderson's arm wore down towards the end of the year.
1st year as a starter in the NFL after 2 years on the sideline ...... 527 attempts .... I think it added up by the end of the year.
Hopefully he gets on a good off-season program.
He threw 525 his senior year at Oregon St.
That's what he did in college. Sling the ball around.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545 |
Quote:
What seems small minded to me is to think he looked any different than he did the second half of the season.
Who did that? Wasn't me.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,947
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,947 |
Quote:
Quote:
I still think that Anderson's arm wore down towards the end of the year.
1st year as a starter in the NFL after 2 years on the sideline ...... 527 attempts .... I think it added up by the end of the year.
Hopefully he gets on a good off-season program.
He threw 525 his senior year at Oregon St.
That's what he did in college. Sling the ball around.
3 years ago. Then 2 years with almost no game action at all.
None of us know for sure ...... I'm just throwing out possibilities.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,078
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,078 |
Quote:
He sure didn't do much to raise his stock thats for sure.
Savage has said he wants both QBs on the roster for next season and the Browns are trying to work out a contract so the Browns can keep Anderson.
Just for how long the Browns would want to keep him, who knows? I'm sure it would depend on his performance next season as well as Quinn's progress.
Did Anderson's performance yesterday help the Browns position? ...or did his performance help the position of Anderson's agent?
Face it, had Anderson lit it up yesterday, it "may" have made the negotiations, from the Browns position, a little more difficult.
Savage needs to get Anderson under contract and fair or not, yesterday's performance may help move that process along.
As for the performance...he stunk the place up. You could see his timing was off and he had trouble reading the receivers. He was being pressured by the pass rush as the NFC was playing some good defense. I didn't see anyone wide open but a couple of times, unlike earlier in the game when the AFC WRs were open everywhere...and yes, Manning hit them too.
Anderson has had a lot happen this past season. He started the season as a backup..the #2 or #3 QB when the first game started. A day after the first game, Frye is traded, Anderson is suddenly the starter knowing that Brady Quinn is just waiting for an opportunity.
To everyone's surprise, the kid responded pretty well, playing well enough to keep Quinn glued to the bench. He did tail off late in the season as the pressure to make the playoffs grew and the weather began to be a factor (in a couple of games).
The Browns just missed making the playoffs and finish the season with a 10-6 record, losing a tiebreaker to the Titans.
Surprisingly, Anderson is named to the pro-bowl as an alternate, after his first season of starting at age 24. When Anderson was named, how many thought he would be playing in the game?
Then Tom Brady goes down and suddenly the Anderson the alternate is on the Pro Bowl roster. As of yesterday's game, it had been 40 days since 24 year old Anderson had played. How much practicing he got done during 5 weeks before the pro bowl, I don't know. Was Anderson throwing to WRs in an attempt to stay sharp?...I don't know.
Some seem to think Anderson "is" Peyton Manning...a finished product ready to take all the pressures of the game and perform like a seasoned pro. Peyton Manning was not named to Pro Bowl after his first season starting in the NFL.
Anderson is a work in progress...a young QB just learning to play at the NFL level. He's been just good enough to keep our rookie QB on the bench and if Anderson doesn't work hard this offseason, he could be the guy on the bench watching Quinn start next season.
But having both QBs on the roster is a good thing for the Browns...added depth and competition to push both QBs to raise the level of play...and knowing that each is one play away from starting, should they be the #2 QB.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
Quote:
Quote:
He played better than Anderson.
Yes he did,, I hope people aren't looking at yesterdays game and thinking that's all DA is about..
Where do you see anyone doing that? Oh, that's right, they aren't. People are saying it was indicative of his performance over the last part of the season. Why try to make it into more than that?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545 |
Quote:
Where do you see anyone doing that? Oh, that's right, they aren't. People are saying it was indicative of his performance over the last part of the season. Why try to make it into more than that?
I'm really not Jules,,, but if you want to think so, hey, it's a free country. THink what you like!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
It's hard to disagree with anything you said.
DA was a find for sure he was. He needs to do better, but at this point I understand that he started for the 1st time this year, and that he was caught a bit off guard at the beginning. So where the teams that played him. And I think that he did pretty darned good all things considered.
It's hard not to see the possiblity that he may in fact stud out.
I won't shed a tear if he is here next season or not. I trust those that are charged with handling this to do what is best for the Browns. I'll support their decision to the bitter end. I think DA will do his typical great job in OTA's but when the preseason starts BQ will beat him out on the field. Hey tho it's possible DA could just light it up, and pound BQ into the dust.
Any way it goes i don't see the Browns coming out of this thing a loser, and thats a good thing, IMHO
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
What gets me about DA yesterday is what I've been thinking about him all year...
I don't think his decision making is terrible. Really, I don't. In fact, I think his decision making is better than his TD/INT ratio indicates. In fact, as the season went on, his decision making improved drastically. I know exactly what Vers is talking about when he says DA's decision making improved because it really did despite his INT's going up.
It's his accuracy that kills him, more specifically on the short stuff. Too many times near the end of the year I saw him make the right decision but couldn't make the accurate throw. We can talk weather all we want down the stretch, but isn't DA's strong arm supposed to help in the wind? Instead it just seems that the wind makes an already inaccurate QB more inaccurate.
If that could somehow be fixed...look out because he's gonna be phenomenal for years to come. But given his history (Vers, I know you're gonna chime in and say Oregon State taught him bad habits, I know that but bear with me) of being inaccurate...I honestly wonder how much he can improve on that.
If you think about it, the defense didn't stop DA yesterday. DA stopped DA, in a situation where offense is supposed to thrive.
Maybe if blitzing were allowed in the Pro Bowl DA would have actually done better because his best games came against heavy blitzes.
So many people are saying DA has the physical gifts but not the mental gifts...I don't think that's so much the case as it is he doesn't have the physical gifts (accuracy and touch) to be truly great because mentally he wasn't bad near the end of the year nor yesterday...he just couldn't get the ball in the right area.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
He is willing to sign him to a 4 to 5 yr contract. Why ?
Well he doesn't think he has reached he potential.
Actually, I think he has.
IF Savage truly believes in his heart of hearts that Anderson is going to continue to grow and become a much better QB, he'd give him the 6-year contract and call it a day.
But that's not what we're offering.
You don't come at a great QB and offer him $11 mil guaranteed over 3 years. That's the kind of money that you offer a QB who's decent.
I wouldn't expect Savage to say anything else but that he believes Anderson will get better. To say anything but positives would be stOOpid, in which case he should be fired on the spot. His own words won't mean spit when it comes to contract negotiations because the organization holds the power, not the player or his agent in this case.
If you believe you have a great QB on your hands, you lock him up and throw away the key (er...or something like that *L*). If you believe you have a decent guy who could go either way, you offer him a 3-year deal for decent but far-from-great money.
The basic parameters of what Savage will offer Anderson is out in the open. Sure, the years and the numbers can change, but the basic averages are now very clear. Savage is probably willing to bump it up another 15-20% depending on the length of the deal, but he's not going to start out that low then suddenly agree to $30 million guaranteed. He's now made it clear of what he thinks Anderson is worth. It's up to his agent(s) to determine whether or not he takes that kind of deal, or opts to ride it out under the tender and go for the gold.
As far as the pro-bowl goes, yeah, if he played poorly, it hurt his value, not only to himself, but to us as well. I don't watch the pro-bowl anymore because it's a complete farse. If his stat-line says he went 10 of 26, he played poorly and continued a trend that started about mid-season when the worm turned.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,564
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,564 |
Quote:
We were also extremely lucky to remain inury free at the qb position. Are you willing to eliminate Anderson from the situation, to have it all on Quinns shoulders with no backup? I'm not.
That would depend on "the price".
Unlike Damons assertion, I too believe DA has "value". But would I turn down a "first and third" Nope!
Would I turn down only a first? Nope!
Would I turn down a high second AND current D player? Nope!
So yes, I do believe that DA "has value". It's simply a question as to "how much value".
You simply need to compare "what DA is asking for" compared to "what you can get a veteran back-up elsewhere for".
If DA outprices his value, put him on the block at "a fair price". Which BTW- IMO is LESS than a "first and third".
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,564
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,564 |
Quote:
Pit is my hero! 
I was wondering when you would finaly "see the light"!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,564
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,564 |
Quote:
Personally..........I don't think it is biased to want to keep both QBs on the roster and allow them to either win or lose the job. Are certain posters afraid of an open competition? If BQ is really that much better, he will win the job outright.
Afraid?
In case you've missed the entire point, which it seems you have, the only thing we're "afraid of" is DA being religated to back up and walks out of here with us getting NOTHING IN RETURN after next year. While WE CAN get something for him now.
You seem to think getting a first rounder, rather than NOTHING is fine idea.
Because it's a HUGE gamble you're willing to take that I'm not. It's just a difference of opinion in how to "move forward". It's not anything more or less.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
j/c: Let me ask you all something about our "awful" QB..............how did he get to the Pro Bowl if he was as bad as some of you claim he is? How many Pro Bowl QBs have we seen here in Cleveland? Timid? Kelly? Garcia? McCown? Frye? Brady Quinn? One more thing............his Pro Bowl performance hurt his value? 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Tony Grossi reported: Quote:
Miami? Forget it. New Dolphins czar Bill Parcells is trying to woo back Green to bridge the gap to his future quarterback.
Today's news:
MIAMI -- Quarterback Trent Green and wide receiver Marty Booker were among nine players cut by the Miami Dolphins on Monday.
Yeah Otto.............Grossi is much more believable than Mort. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
I never said that and you know it. What I said was ESPN blows everything out of proportion. And that I didn't see any reason to give Grossi such grief as he gets on here. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good, "I gotcha".
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Facts? A couple of us said that Grossi is the one who writes things that are not accurate and we took exception to his article. You refuted our claim. The next day, one of Grossi's facts proves to be a complete untruth.
And it wasn't about getting you. It's about Grossi. He is a rumor starter that has been caught more times than we can count.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
I refuted your claim as well as the one made by someone else......damanshot? But it got lost in the quibbling over DA's performance in an exhibition game. Did you miss that part?
You said that Grossi said something was inaccurate that he didn't even say!
C'mon people........geeez.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
And Otto corrected me. I didn't keep arguing the point, like many do on here after they have been proven wrong. I misread it the first time. I was wrong. Shall I get on my knees and ask for forgiveness? Sheesh!
And because Grossi said there was no buzz at the Super Bowl doesn't make it true. As noted, Grossi also said that Parcells wanted to keep Green. One day later, Parcells cuts Green. Was Grossi right about that? Shep, the guy makes up wild claims all the time. I realize he bad-mouthed DA, so some people don't want to admonish him, but he has been doing this for years now. He starts rumors in order to further his cause. I really think the guy has a feeling that he can influence decisions. And in some regard........he has.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
Quote:
Grossi is the worst excuse for a sports reporter on the planet earth. Her stirs up more crapola then any other sports reporter in Cleveland, which wouldn't be so bad if he weren't so ignorant...
Obviously you have never read Roger Brown... 
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496 |
Quote:
In case you've missed the entire point, which it seems you have, the only thing we're "afraid of" is DA being religated to back up and walks out of here with us getting NOTHING IN RETURN after next year. While WE CAN get something for him now.
You seem to think getting a first rounder, rather than NOTHING is fine idea.
Pitt your talking to a brick wall that does not seem to see how badly we could be hurt by passing up any good offers for a one hit wonder who could lose all value by the end of next season. 
And I think you have your last statement turned around. Actually he seems to think getting nothing for Anderson next year is more important than getting a high draft pick or two for him now!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Quote:
Grossi also said that Parcells wanted to keep Green. One day later, Parcells cuts Green
And it's being reported Parcells wants to bring him back...CHEAPER...
Soooooooooo?
There is a chance that Green -- who was due a $500,000 roster bonus if he wasn't cut and who would have cost the Dolphins more than $3.6 million against their 2008 salary cap -- could see his Miami tenure continue.
His agent, Jim Steiner, told The Palm Beach Post that Green and Parcells plan to meet soon to discuss options...espn
Go Browns!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 156
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 156 |
Quote:
Actually, I think he has.
IF Savage truly believes in his heart of hearts that Anderson is going to continue to grow and become a much better QB, he'd give him the 6-year contract and call it a day.
Can't agree with you on this one Toad.
Savage isn't going to give any QB with one year of success a major contract based on the potential to get better, when he has a young gun, that he traded up to get, sitting on the bench.
I really think Savage sees DA as a guy that has room to grow, but needs to show consistancy, before he lays down a major comitiment to him.
Quote:
You don't come at a great QB and offer him $11 mil guaranteed over 3 years. That's the kind of money that you offer a QB who's decent.
Exactly, and nobody can say DA is a great QB after one good year, not even Phil.
Quote:
I wouldn't expect Savage to say anything else but that he believes Anderson will get better. To say anything but positives would be stOOpid, in which case he should be fired on the spot. His own words won't mean spit when it comes to contract negotiations because the organization holds the power, not the player or his agent in this case.
Particulary in this case when you have BQ on the sidelines.
Quote:
If you believe you have a great QB on your hands, you lock him up and throw away the key (er...or something like that *L*). If you believe you have a decent guy who could go either way, you offer him a 3-year deal for decent but far-from-great money.
DA only did what a decent QB would have done, to assume he's great after one season at the helm , would cause Phil his job also.
Add in that other factors were helpful in the total scheme of it all , how can anyone warrent giving DA anything more than a contract of a decent QB ?
Quote:
The basic parameters of what Savage will offer Anderson is out in the open. Sure, the years and the numbers can change, but the basic averages are now very clear. Savage is probably willing to bump it up another 15-20% depending on the length of the deal, but he's not going to start out that low then suddenly agree to $30 million guaranteed. He's now made it clear of what he thinks Anderson is worth. It's up to his agent(s) to determine whether or not he takes that kind of deal, or opts to ride it out under the tender and go for the gold.
As it should be and why I said it was all about the contract now, not if DA has a higher ceiling or BQ has a higher ceiling, not if DA is better or BQ is better . If DA signs, he may or may not be in a Browns uniform next year. If he doesn't sign , we will get what we can get.
Quote:
As far as the pro-bowl goes, yeah, if he played poorly, it hurt his value, not only to himself, but to us as well. I don't watch the pro-bowl anymore because it's a complete farse. If his stat-line says he went 10 of 26, he played poorly and continued a trend that started about mid-season when the worm turned.
Did they play the Pro-bowl already ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Quote:
Facts? A couple of us said that Grossi is the one who writes things that are not accurate and we took exception to his article. You refuted our claim. The next day, one of Grossi's facts proves to be a complete untruth.
And it wasn't about getting you. It's about Grossi. He is a rumor starter that has been caught more times than we can count.
Vers you hit the nail on the head. Grossi is a piece of crap. I hate the guy for always starting turmoil in the fan base and on the team. It wouldn't be so bad if he where right, but more often then not he is dead WRONG. hell it wouldn't even be so bad if he actually knew anything, which he don't. I can't for the life of me figure out why the PD hasn't fired the bum...
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Quote:
So many people are saying DA has the physical gifts but not the mental gifts...I don't think that's so much the case as it is he doesn't have the physical gifts (accuracy and touch) to be truly great because mentally he wasn't bad near the end of the year nor yesterday...he just couldn't get the ball in the right area.
Ammo, I realise we are talking opinion here so I respect yours.
I just can't in my mind get past a couple of things, so bear with me and hear me out.
Last off season during OTA's DA was said to have the inside track to be the Browns starter. Then the training camp started and he actually ended pre-season behind CF. Then comes the Pro Bowl and the announcers from the game said they asked Norv Turner who he was most impressed with during practice and he said,"DA".
Then there is this, I saw DA twice this year at CBS in pre-game warm-ups, he was flawless. Then after the Jets game Eotab took great pains to remark that DA was flawless as well. And here is the kicker, he said that "IF" DA could bring to the game what he has in practice he would be one of the ALL TIME GREATS, thats how impressed EO was, I might add I was equally impressed. It doesn't make either of us right, but there it is 2 fans saying it, and a NFL head coach...
Now what that indicates to me is that DA has the tools and the accuracy to be great, but for some unknown reason he can't bring that skill set to the game. There is IMHO a great deal of difference between not having the ability to begin with, and not being able to bring it to the field. Unlock that door you got yourself one hell of a QB. Thats why I think it's much more mental then physical.
Now it could very well be that no-one will ever be able to coach DA up to the point that he reaches his potential, but the potiental is there, or at least I think so anyway.
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545 |
Man I really hate getting in the middle of this because it's the dumbest of arguments... But; Quote:
I refuted your claim as well as the one made by someone else......damanshot?
Other than I don't trust Grossi...and that Grossi claimed that Cowher would be our New HC in 2007... what is there to refute.. Perhaps your thinking of someone else..
You can't refute that I don't trust Grossi,, it's JMO.
You can't Refute that Cowher isn't our HC in 2007... Because he isn't..
So yeah, you are thinkig of someone else I think Shep..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Honestly, I do not believe Grossi said Cowher WOULD be our coach. I believe he said Cowher would be the first choice if Romeo had gotten canned. I believe we actually had this same argument when this was first printed way back when. Vers - C'mon, I realize that you and Daman have some kind of grudge against Grossi for whatever illogical reason but claiming he's influenced decisions in the FO. Really? That would make the FO incredibly weak and shallow wouldn't it? Was Tony on the grassy knoll as well? 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Quote:
So many people are saying DA has the physical gifts but not the mental gifts...I don't think that's so much the case as it is he doesn't have the physical gifts (accuracy and touch) to be truly great because mentally he wasn't bad near the end of the year nor yesterday...he just couldn't get the ball in the right area.
Ammo, I realise we are talking opinion here so I respect yours.
I just can't in my mind get past a couple of things, so bear with me and hear me out.
Last off season during OTA's DA was said to have the inside track to be the Browns starter. Then the training camp started and he actually ended pre-season behind CF. Then comes the Pro Bowl and the announcers from the game said they asked Norv Turner who he was most impressed with during practice and he said,"DA".
Then there is this, I saw DA twice this year at CBS in pre-game warm-ups, he was flawless. Then after the Jets game Eotab took great pains to remark that DA was flawless as well. And here is the kicker, he said that "IF" DA could bring to the game what he has in practice he would be one of the ALL TIME GREATS, thats how impressed EO was, I might add I was equally impressed. It doesn't make either of us right, but there it is 2 fans saying it, and a NFL head coach...
Now what that indicates to me is that DA has the tools and the accuracy to be great, but for some unknown reason he can't bring that skill set to the game. There is IMHO a great deal of difference between not having the ability to begin with, and not being able to bring it to the field. Unlock that door you got yourself one hell of a QB. Thats why I think it's much more mental then physical.
Now it could very well be that no-one will ever be able to coach DA up to the point that he reaches his potential, but the potiental is there, or at least I think so anyway.
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
I get where you're coming from and I respect your opinion too. But there's the thing...practice.
We talkin' bout practice. Not a game, not a game, but practice.
Physically, on the surface, DA has it all. He a rocket arm and can look amazing IN PRACTICE (where everything is 3/4 speed IF THAT). Hell, not even practice, it's warmups where the speed is even slower. Warmups where Braylon Edwards and Brandon McDonald Crank Dat Soulja Boy when it's not their turn to go in the drills. Basically, they're just out there to loosen up, not go full throttle.
In training camp DA didn't win the job outright despite being the favorite because as Savage says "He was missing the strike zone."
When it comes to live games, it maybe because of his inherent lack of accuracy, when the game speeds up he can't throw the ball in the right area. Some may say it's mental because that means the game hasn't "slowed down" enough for him yet." I say it's physical because in the 2nd half of the season I saw him check down more often and make the smarter throw, but he just couldn't connect.
DA's decision making really did improve, but he just couldn't get the ball to the right spot despite seeing the right man open.
If DA's accuracy can improve, he'd be one of the greats. No question. That's what killed him in the Pro Bowl and IMO in the 2nd half of the year...not his decision making cuz he generally made the right decisions but just couldn't connect.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
You can heep me in with Vers and Daman on this one Otto.
TG has done more to cause unrest and problems within the Browns and especially so with the fans. Now we come to the FO, doesn't reach to the public. Well sorry yes they do, not as much as some may like, and certainly not as quickley as some may think. TG does all he can to cause unrest within the fan base, and therefore he has a negative effect on the Franchise. Believe it don't believe it, but its there. The part your leaving out is that the fans are what keeps a team on the field in Cleveland, yes AL owns the team but without the support of the fan base he and the Browns franchise are dead, they have to react when the fan base isn't happy, and TG does all he can to cause as much unrest as he can, or at least he has in the past. It is MHO that one of the reasons the Browns have been so bad for so long is a direct result of TG's stirring of the pot all the time. Instead of staying the course he is always the 1st to start the call for throwing coaches and players under the bus. He try's to enlighten the public to what is going on and the net result is just the opposite.
What you end up with is a fan base that reads something he writes believe it and off we go down the road that TG started the fans down. You most likely are one of those people that realizes that a lot of what you read isn't factual, but the vast majority of people don't know the difference and believe what they read.
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Actually Ammo all players get better thru practice, thats why they do it. DA isn't any different in that respect. The routes being run are the same and while the speed may be different the throw is not. The accuracy he is able to display in that situation (practice) is their, but is missing in the game. If you can do one you should be able to do the other. Be it confidence, or just letting your natural ability shine thru. He has the TOOLS thats the key, now if he can throw the ball with accuracy in practice it doesn't mean it's physical to me, it means he has a mental block that doesn't allow his nature talent to shine thru. And yes perhaps it is as simple as the game slowing down for him, a good point you raised. Nobody can loss track of the fact that he actually has seen limited duty in games. 1 years as a starter hardly makes him a vet. At the end of the day Ammo, I think will have to respectfully agree to disagree on this one...  Thru it all I still think that BQ will be the long term answer for the Browns, but DA is as capable he just hasn't been able to do it on the field YET, if EVER... Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545 |
Quote:
Honestly, I do not believe Grossi said Cowher WOULD be our coach.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.. He said that Cowher WOULD BE OUR COACH for the 2007 year.. he said it, I read it, I heard him say it on The Point After TV Show... you are incorrect my friend... Totally incorrect!
Quote:
Vers - C'mon, I realize that you and Daman have some kind of grudge against Grossi for whatever illogical reason but claiming he's influenced decisions in the FO.
My "grudge" as you put it isn't against JUST Grossi.. I admit, I find him to be the kind of reporter that likes to make bold statements without back up and tells you it's the truth.. That kinda stuff turns me off about him. If that's illogical, then so be it!
But my distrust of Reporters in general, may or may not be unreasonable but it is what it is..
As for him having an influence over what does or does not happen in Berea,, I think if you look around, you will see the gentle jabs that RAC and Savage have made to Grossi over the last couple of years when he comes up with stupid stuff..
NO, I don't think he has ANY influence over the actions of RAC or Savage or Lerner.. And I NEVER said he did..
If Vers did, then take it up with him, but don't lump me in there...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Guys that attribute some all powerful abilitity to influence people to sportswriters kill me. While I'm sure that the FO reads the papers I doubt they read it as much as you guys do. And if they're letting it influence their decisions then they should be fired.
Sports columnists and sports beat writers are for entertainment, mainly, and a little bit of info. Nothing more. If you or the Browns are letting it become more than that in your lives y'all really need to get a grip.
And as far as driving away fans because of what they write.....who are you kidding. That stadium will be sold out from now until eternity, or close to it. If nearly a decade of crappy football hasn't driven the fans away I doubt Tony Grossi will or could.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,382
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,382 |
Quote:
If nearly a decade of crappy football hasn't driven the fans away I doubt Tony Grossi will or could.
I think you underestimate the Power of The Dark Side.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,545 |
Quote:
TG has done more to cause unrest and problems within the Browns and especially so with the fans.
I can't agree completely with that statement Brown to the Bone... I have doubts that anything Grossi says means diddly to the FO, Coach, GM or Owner of the browns... I think they view him as as big a chuckle head as you and I and Vers does..
But the part of that statement I do agree with is that he does get the average fan all up in arms over nothing..
He writes something,, an average fan reads it and for whatever reason, decides that it's gospel and then gets into arguments on this board and other boards..
I can't understand for the life of me, what do some people see in the Media that makes them so trustworthy... I don't see it man I just don't see it at all.
If you wanna know what's really happening, then listen to the coach and the GM and the players themselves when they are interviewed..
I know it doesn't happen fast enough or with enough frequency for us, but that's the real way to determine fact from fiction..
But that's JMO,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Star Status of Anderson still up
in the air.
|
|
