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The question is this... I understand that an abortion terminates the active pregnancy of an unborn fetus in the womb. This procedure is as old as history reveals itself and it is hear to stay but....................................
If the pregnancy is terminated and the fetus is expelled from the womb by any number of actions....does the right to abortion automatically protect the woman's demand that the fetus be no longer viable when the fetus is taken from her womb?
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I don't think I understand the question exactly.
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Quote:
I don't think I understand the question exactly.
I read it a couple times and didn't get it either.
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Are you asking if the fetus can be implanted in another womans womb?
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That's a good question, I suppose if the fetus can be saved, it can be saved. Legally, I have no clue, but I imagine if the resources are available, and there are interested parties, why not save the fetus.
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That's a good question, I suppose if the fetus can be saved, it can be saved. Legally, I have no clue, but I imagine if the resources are available, and there are interested parties, why not save the fetus.
I'm not sure if the fetus can be saved or not from an abortion... unless you're talking about doing a c-section and pretty invasive surgery that if a woman is getting an abortion for whatever reason I don't see them going through that procedure.
so if that's the question, then I don't think it's likely.
<><
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If you are referring to partial birth abortions great measures are taken to prevent the baby from being born.
Graphic description follows. If you choose to skip do so now.
In D&X Abortions (partial birth), the abortion practitioner instrumentally reaches into the uterus, grasps the fetus' feet, and pulls the feet down into the cervix. The reason this is done is not as a medical necessity, but to avoid actually birthing the baby.
If the baby were fully born, killing it would be considered murder.
The fetus is then pulled down the birth canal until it has been entirely birthed except the head. Surgical scissors are forced into the base of the fetal skull while the fetus is lodged in the birth canal. This blind procedure risks maternal injury from laceration of the uterus or cervix by the scissors and could result in severe bleeding and the threat of shock or even maternal death.
A suction apparatus is introduced into the hole in the base of the skull and the fetus' brains are removed through aspiration. The baby is then born dead.
If the baby leaves the womb then it cannot be killed by law by the performer of the abortion.
Hope that answers the question. No debate, no sides taken.
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I'm not quite sure what you're getting at either, but I believe the Court's 5-4 rationale in Roe v. Wade ruled that a viable fetus cannot be aborted (thus affirming the unconstitutionality of partial birth abortions).
Hope this helps.
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Viable how ?....If your asking if a fetus can be used for organ donation research , honestly don't know if the right of whoever(Say the government) , takes priority over the Mother's right to demand that her fetus be aborted in such away as to make it nonviable/available for any such research....
The Mammal
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In the simplest of terms my point is.....
If a women demands an abortion does that mean that the action responsible for the act of terminating the pregnancy MUST INCLUDE a dead fetus when completed?
My point- and I do not know any of the newest medical techniques- is that a woman will always have the right to end her pregnancy but does she have the right to demand a dead fetus???????
Geez, the term abortion is rather numbing anymore but when the actions to complete the process are examined it seems so barbaric to simply end her responsibility of motherhood. Is there any other option with today's medical advancements?
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The fetus would be dead anyways...it's not like it could be saved during the early months of pregnancy, when a woman has the abortion procedure performed...
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If the baby leaves the womb then it cannot be killed by law by the performer of the abortion.
Thats what killes ME! A matter of eight inches or even one day defines what is murder or abortion.  Absolutely the most barbaric, insane and hypocritical stance that has ever defined a murder. if the mother dosent want the baby on Monday Feb 6th and is due tommorrow...she can kill the baby. BUT......the next day the baby is born (8 inches and a day later) then she changes her mind and it is murder if the wants to kill the child.  THE MOST INSANE law that has ever been made. If a person was in a wreck with a pregnant women and killed her unborn baby and it was the other persons fault.....HE can be charged with murder (manslaughter maybe) because "ONLY THEN" is it considered a living organ. WHY? Because she want the child!!!!!  HYPOCRISY at its finest. 8 inches....1 day.....or a want of the child. There is no other way to look at it. People say its her choice......then dont let 8 inches, 1 day or her love define murder.....because its her choice. Absolutely retarded. And Michael Vick is in the pen for killing dogs (in a barbaric way of fighting verses the abortion way of sticking a sicle in the baby's head)....not 1 day or prior unborn baby's he was killing . LOL Would he serve time for killing unborn puppies?  I bet the Animal rights people would say so!!!!! And the government would agree!!!! LOL  Unbelievable!!!!
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so much for "no debate"... 
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so much for "no debate"... Shame on Me!!!! 
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J/C
I believe there have been many survivors of botched abortions. It is not legal to kill them one they leave the body. I guess the mothers can sue for the live births but they can't have them killed.
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When the Babies that are killed can sue, then it will be more even.
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That is exactly how I took this question....While yes , the law does protect the fetus in that way at that point....Due to trimester rules , there wouldn't be any viable life to save at that point.....
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Quote:
That is exactly how I took this question....While yes , the law does protect the fetus in that way at that point....Due to trimester rules , there wouldn't be any viable life to save at that point.....
I agree. The baby can never exist on its own once aborted.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Quote:
That is exactly how I took this question....While yes , the law does protect the fetus in that way at that point....Due to trimester rules , there wouldn't be any viable life to save at that point.....
Am I even understanding his question?
He said:
Quote:
My point is that a woman will always have the right to end her pregnancy but does she have the right to demand a dead fetus???????
But that's what an abortion is...ending a pregnancy = dead fetus.
I guess I still don't fully understand the question! 
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I really haven't a clue, but I think he's asking "what happens if the fetus lives after being aborted".
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That's the way I understood it.
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Quote:
I guess I still don't fully understand the question!
What I never understood was why people have to come up with names for a baby (ie) fetus, and call it abortion instead of murder. Just to make it sound more humane 
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I don't think it was the pro-choice side that came up with that particular terminology.
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It's medical terminology, so that argument is reaching. GM's specialty when in a debate.  And when Ralphie starts a thread on this subject and says he's not expecting a debate, does anyone believe him? 
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Only if I'm standing behind you 
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Quote:
Thats what killes ME!
A matter of eight inches or even one day defines what is murder or abortion.
Really...how many "birth day minus one day" abortions do you thing are performed in this country? You talk about it like it's happening every where we look.
You do realize the type of abortion you speak of has been FEDERALLY BANNED IN THE US, right?
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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I do know for certain that the Rowe verses Wade states its legal all the way through the term.
That is a fact for sure....which as far as "i" know....its still the law.
Now do we have to debate how far "minus1 days" till it is not a baby and is no longer murder?
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Some folks always bring stuff like this up to make a point. I have a feeling that most pregnancies are terminated from 2 weeks to 4 weeks from conception. Basically as soon as someone finds out. With the advent of the day after pill it will decrease that time frame even more to the point where the women won't even know if she WAS pregnant. Personally I think that is a good thing for her state of mind. Not everyone is ready for a child. Not every child gets adopted. Children should be born into loving homes with parents willing and able to take care of them.
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WHAT A CROCK!!!!!! You can look at alot of stats to make yourself feel like it aint legalized murder if you want to....but the law has it the way it is and gives women the right to kill there children no matter when they want to as long as it has not made the 8 inches through the womb. Its killing a child wrapped up in a nice wrap and a cute little bow on top and called abortion !!  Flippin unbelievable.!!!!
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Children should also not be murdered.
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Quote:
I do know for certain that the Rowe verses Wade states its legal all the way through the term.
That is a fact for sure....which as far as "i" know....its still the law.
Now do we have to debate how far "minus1 days" till it is not a baby and is no longer murder?
The Roe v. Wade decision does not say that at all.
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Quote:
But that's what an abortion is...ending a pregnancy = dead fetus.
I think this is what he's talking about...
Quote:
Gianna Jessen
Testimony of abortion survivor Gianna Jessen before the Constitution Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee on April 22, 1996.
My name is Gianna Jessen. I am 19 years of age. I am originally from California, but now reside in Franklin, Tennessee. I am adopted. I have cerebral palsy. My biological mother was 17 years old and seven and one-half months pregnant when she made the decision to have a saline abortion. I am the person she aborted. I lived instead of died.
Fortunately for me the abortionist was not in the clinic when I arrived alive, instead of dead, at 6:00 a.m. on the morning of April 6, 1977. I was early, my death was not expected to be seen until about 9 a.m., when he would probably be arriving for his office hours. I am sure I would not be here today if the abortionist would have been in the clinic as his job is to take life, not sustain it. Some have said I am a "botched abortion", a result of a job not well done.
There were many witnesses to my entry into this world. My biological mother and other young girls in the clinic, who also awaited the death of their babies, were the first to greet me. I am told this was a hysterical moment. Next was a staff nurse who apparently called emergency medical services and had me transferred to a hospital.
I remained in the hospital for almost three months. There was not much hope for me in the beginning. I weighed only two pounds. Today, babies smaller than I was have survived.
A doctor once said I had a great will to live and that I fought for my life. I eventually was able to leave the hospital and be placed in foster care. I was diagnosed with cerebral palsy as a result of the abortion.
My foster mother was told that it was doubtful that I would ever crawl or walk. I could not sit up independently. Through the prayers and dedication of my foster mother, and later many other people, I eventually learned to sit up, crawl, then stand. I walked with leg braces and a walker shortly before I turned age four. I was legally adopted by my foster mother's daughter, Diana De Paul, a few months after I began to walk. The Department of Social Services would not release me any earlier for adoption.
I have continued in physical therapy for my disability, and after a total of four surgeries, I can now walk without assistance. It is not always easy. Sometimes I fall, but I have learned how to fall gracefully after falling 19 years.
I am happy to be alive. I almost died. Every day I thank God for life. I do not consider myself a by-product of conception, a clump of tissue, or any other of the titles given to a child in the womb. I do not consider any person conceived to be any of those things.
I have met other survivors of abortion. They are all thankful for life. Only a few months ago I met another saline abortion survivor. Her name is Sarah. She is two years old. Sarah also has cerebral palsy, but her diagnosis is not good. She is blind and has severe seizures. The abortionist, besides injecting the mother with saline, also injects the baby victims. Sarah was injected in the head. I saw the place on her head where this was done. When I speak, I speak not only for myself, but for the other survivors, like Sarah, and also for those who cannot yet speak ...
Today, a baby is a baby when convenient. It is tissue or otherwise when the time is not right. A baby is a baby when miscarriage takes place at two, three, four months. A baby is called a tissue or clumps of cells when an abortion takes place at two, three, four months. Why is that? I see no difference. What are you seeing? Many close there eyes...
The best thing I can show you to defend life is my life. It has been a great gift. Killing is not the answer to any question or situation. Show me how it is the answer.
There is a quote which is etched into the high ceilings of one of our state's capitol buildings. The quote says, "Whatever is morally wrong, is not politically correct." Abortion is morally wrong. Our country is shedding the blood of the innocent. America is killing its future.
All life is valuable. All life is a gift from our Creator. We must receive and cherish the gifts we are given. We must honor the right to life.
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Very well said Miss Jessen 
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I thought this wasn't supposed to be a debate thread.
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I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Yea GM.. this is supposed to be that non-debate abortion thread... next week we'll have a non-debate gay rights thread followed by a non-debate George Bush thread...
yebat' Putin
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Well tells Jules I need to practice my reaching 
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It is a fact that a fetus can be taken alive from a woman's body before passing thru the birth canal...this is a fact and the result is a termination of the pregnancy in the woman's womb...right?
I am simply asking a hypothetical question as there are procedures being developed at this time which are not as invasive as a C section but still extracts a living fetus from a woman's body.
I realize a multitude of legal, ethical questions may arise from this but ......
In 20 years if no more infallible forms of birth control are in place...does it stand to reason that a woman may insist on ending her pregnancy...but at the same time allow for an option to remove the fetus alive for another family???
The point is that I do not believe that a pregnancy always must result in a dead fetus.
...but what do I know I worked as a KMart manager for 30 years and was really dumbed down at the end of that ordeal.
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Quote:
It is a fact that a fetus can be taken alive from a woman's body before passing thru the birth canal...this is a fact and the result is a termination of the pregnancy in the woman's womb...right?
I wasn't aware of this. In what stage of the pregnancy are we referring to? If you are talking about the last trimester of a pregnancy, then I think this is called "giving birth". If you are talking about the 1st or 2nd trimester, then the baby cannot survive outside of the womb.
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does it stand to reason that a woman may insist on ending her pregnancy...but at the same time allow for an option to remove the fetus alive for another family???
A baby being born, and given to another family. Isn't this called adoption?
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The point is that I do not believe that a pregnancy always must result in a dead fetus.
Did you mean to say that an abortion doesn't always have to result in a dead fetus? I still don't get this at all....that's what an abortion is. An abortion is defined as terminating a pregnancy. Again, termination = dead fetus.
What procedure are you talking about? Does it have a name? 
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Quote:
IAnd when Ralphie starts a thread on this subject and says he's not expecting a debate, does anyone believe him?
Jules...the last thing I wanted to do was to have to take on a group of cynics. I was serious but it appears that you must have to get in the first cynical jab whenever possible. If I am in error I apologize.
I have an unusually focused interest in this issue as my lovely bride of 35 years is a survivor of a botched pregnancy termination. back in the 50s these procedures were very rare and live births almost unheard of then...that's all.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Abortion question which concerns
me...no debate intended.
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