|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,089 |
Quote:
This is a situation that happens frequently on teams with talent and depth,and something we might have to get used to.
Last time I checked, we were far from a deep team.
Apart from Bodden, we've got a second year guy and McDonald who is still very green.
Holly should stay so long as he's not asking for big bucks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wished people would let things playout a bit before putting a lable on a player as being anything
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That statement falls under the lable of "Commen Sence" (Loud god like Voice saying "Commone Sence")....and that my friend will never happen
Brown to the Bone asked that question,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 164
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 164 |
I want to see them give Holley a long term deal, he's a solid player that flew under the radar and turned out to be a very nice surprise. He deserves a long term deal and hopefully its with the Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086 |
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,523
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,523 |
First off it's SENSE,a hard word to spell and something even harder to acquire.
In my last response to you,I forget I was on a message board and replied as an adult would in a conversational manner.You understood,many others didnot,so I'll explain.
I am not advocating dumping Holley,far from it.I like his play,but,I don't see the FO offering him a contract high enough to keep him here.He gets tendered,he gets a contract offer from another team,he's gone.Afterall he's not a bad corner.It just so happens he's behind three others on the team.That makes the Browns talented and deep at the corner position.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
I like Holly he´s a solid dependable CB and he even has some upside left since he started playing CB just as a senior in College (WR before)
I hope we sign him to a 3year deal...if he wants too much, slap him the 2nd round tender (around 1mil I guess??)...and he´s in a contract year and gives us 100% next season
In todays NFL you need 4 good CBs and the #3 and #4 should be at least slightly below AVG No.2 starters...Holly is just that: an above AVG nickel/dime guy with good hands who doesnt get burned, he´s solid and can spot start....3 CBs are on the field in over 50% of the plays anyway...then there will be injuries
I would feel real thin at CB if we let him go...Bodden is injury prone, McDonald isn´t a sure thing yet and Wright is also just entering his 2nd season
Re-Sign him or tender him...whatever..but keep him
Pretty good take.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Quote:
Bone, it was SPECULATION,, NOBODY that I know of said FOR SURE that he was asking for anything.. it was used as a MAYBE reason why he's not signed yet... You may not want to believe it's possible, but I'm afraid it is....
Sorry as always you take something and twist it to your own way of thinking. Heres the deal.
Because a player is up for a contract and he hasn't been signed doesn't mean squat. Saying that a player is a dirt bag becuase he isn't signed, and that he automaticly is a greedy so and so, aint speculation it's what I call unfair.
Now I'm not saying thats what you said but there have been posts that have come pretty close to that, and when you factor in all the other threads where people have given players the dirt bag lable ( not exact words) I think (perhaps wrongly) that that crosses the line of fairness, and so I spoke out against it. Don't you think it's a bit uncalled for to lable a player when you don't know all the facts, I sure as hell do. Speculation is fine labling isn't.
Quote:
Well Geez Bone, you didn't let them play out when you brought up the subject... How do you know that Phil isn't sitting down right now, at this very moment, signing a deal with Holly? Yet you start a thread on it,, isn't that the same thing.. I mean,, "NOT letting things play out"!
Bringing up the subject isn't the problem as I said labling is. Negotiations oft times get pretty heated, I don't see a bad guy in it, it is what it is. As for agents it's their job to get a player max salary. How does that make any agent the bad guy, honestly, if I were a player I would want an agent to do whatever needed doing to get me the most money possible, and sometimes going public is what it takes. The Browns have done it ( see BQ ) and players do it too. Truly nobody is the bad guy, and labling anybody be it the player or the team, is totally and completely unfair.
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Because a player is up for a contract and he hasn't been signed doesn't mean squat. Saying that a player is a dirt bag becuase he isn't signed, and that he automaticly is a greedy so and so, aint speculation it's what I call unfair
Who the hell called him a dirt bag and greedy... I didn't see that anywhere and as you already say, I certainly didn't write it.....
And how the hell did I twist anything.. If you look at what you quoted me as saying, all it says is that people were speculating on why he wasn't signed yet.. I'd like to know how that is twisting anything?
Quote:
Don't you think it's a bit uncalled for to lable a player when you don't know all the facts, I sure as hell do. Speculation is fine labling isn't.
I agree, labeling a player without all the facts is wrong,, no question about it.. But I didn't see anyone label him anything.. All I saw is people responding to you, trying to think of reasons why he isn't signed. That to me is speculation..
From the original post you put up:
Quote:
With the shortage of DB's in the NFL I just can't see why the Browns would let DH get away ???
Who said they were? They may be talking to him right now (speculation). Or the may have already made the deal (speculation). Or they may have decided he's replaceable. (speculation). Or he may be asking for too much money, (speculation).
You saying that, with the shortage of DB's, you don't know why they would let him get away is kinda like Jumping the gun a little isn't it? That's what I was trying to say in what you quoted... but you misread me again...
Quote:
I would want an agent to do whatever needed doing to get me the most money possible, and sometimes going public is what it takes.
Well, you and I just flat out disagree on the going public thing.. IMO, it doesn't do anything except make the player look greedy and stupid.. same with the agent..
I can't imagine a player or his agent saying anything in public that would actually cause a team to do something they weren't prepared to do in the first place..
You will never make me believe that if a team has decided to offer NO MORE than a 3 year, 10 million dollar deal, that going public would ever cause them to make it 4 year, 12 million.. Going public doesn't do squat to help the negotiations...
Quote:
Truly nobody is the bad guy, and labling anybody be it the player or the team, is totally and completely unfair.
Again, maybe I just missed it, but I didn't hear or read where anyone did any of that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
This is what I mean by twist, here is what I wrote about the dirt bag thing take it in it's total not just bits and pieces thats where the twist comes in. Heres the part you LEFT OUT..  Quote:
Now I'm not saying thats what you said but there have been posts that have come pretty close to that, and when you factor in all the other threads where people have given players the dirt bag lable (not exact words) I think (perhaps wrongly) that that crosses the line of fairness, and so I spoke out against it.
Now thats what I said take it in total not in bits and pieces. Don't read between the lines I say what I mean. We can disagree about whatever, but if you quote me don't twist it, thats not COOL. 
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Guys............I think you are both making more out of this than you need to. Here is an idea-----------how about you both argue the merits of your case and stop trying to belittle the other? I'm not saying this in a mean, sarcastic manner. Just some friendly advice. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
What is it with you,, do you think I'm an idiot? You made mention of it and I responded with: Quote:
Who the hell called him a dirt bag and greedy... I didn't see that anywhere and as you already say, I certainly didn't write it.....
I acknowledge that you said that I didn't say it.. I also asked who did..
Talk about only taking bits and pieces....... Geez man
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
You also said this: Quote:
Because a player is up for a contract and he hasn't been signed doesn't mean squat. Saying that a player is a dirt bag becuase he isn't signed, and that he automaticly is a greedy so and so, aint speculation it's what I call unfair.
Damanshot said he didn't see where people were saying he is a dirtbag...and I haven't either. Just because later in your post you tried to qualify the statement doesn't change what you wrote above. *shrug*
He didn't "twist" anything.
I also agree with Vers whereas you two are arguing over stuff that is silly, IMO. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Ahh, this happens all the time Vers,, as for belittling him,, I didn't know I did, but if I did, it wasn't intended and for that I apoligize.... As for my feelings on the subject,, haven't you all figured out yet,, I'm always right about everything  Oh,, wait,, I'm wrong about that, aren't I?  
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
JC to throw my opinion out there.
I like the CBs on this team A LOT. Wright and McDonald have major upside and Bodden is still decent, if only as a slot CB. Holly is a 4th CB, and he plays better than that.
Safety is a position we can really still question in my book, but I do think Pool will improve which hopefully will allow Sean Jones to step up for the run game.
I can't imagine Holly is asking for too much or getting too much interest from teams. He produces for us and plays hard. CB is a position which sees a lot of injuries, and so it is my belief that we should resign him to 3 or 4 years. Why not?
One thing that Holly does great is be in the right place at the right time. He's held his own against the other team's recievers every time he's asked to and has played a vital role in our success last year and especially (could have been much worse) two years ago. He's a must re-sign in my book. A not so expensive contract would mean our guy, who is a solid backup, coming back and more continuity on the defense
Finally, I'm not an objective fan. Can't be, I love our guys and will put our guys up against anybody. That's just the way that I am. Same way with the Celtics, same way with the Huskies. I like it when we have the same guys on our team for a long time, I like Holly. Holly likes us. Keep him in Brown baby
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Daven Holley RFA
|
|
