DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Top free agents: These 32 can expect to cash in

Only posted the part that was pertinent to us...

$sore for A$ante

By John Tomase / NFL Notes
Sunday, February 17, 2008 -

No matter what Asante Samuel [stats]’s tattoo reads, this much is clear - he’s about to become very, very rich.

As the top cornerback on the market, Samuel’s situation is being watched as a barometer by not only the NFL’s elite defensive backs, but by the 2008 free agent class in general.

Just as former Bills corner Nate Clements set the market in free agency last year with an eight-year, $80 million deal from the 49ers, Samuel’s viewed as the marquee guy this winter.

Denver’s Champ Bailey last week told Yahoo Sports at the Pro Bowl that he hopes Samuel and Seattle corner Marcus Trufant break the bank.

“I hope those guys set the bar real high,” Bailey said. “I think Asante and (Trufant), those guys should definitely get $100 million, probably more. Every team needs premier cornerbacks in this league. They’re worth it.”

The difference between Samuel and the other top corners on the market - Oakland’s Nnamdi Asomugha and Trufant - is that he can’t be franchised, thanks to a provision in his contract that was triggered when the Patriots [team stats] won their 12th game.

So where might Samuel end up? His list of suitors should begin with the Jets, who project to have anywhere between $20 million and $30 million in cap space and are led by Samuel’s former position coach, Eric Mangini.

If a gentlemen’s agreement ever existed between Patriots head coach Bill Belichick and Mangini over not targeting each other’s players, that agreement blew up when (a) the Jets threw their hats in the ring for Deion Branch two years ago; or (b) Mangini & Co. created a thing called Camera-gate.

The Jets feel they have the makings of a legit No. 1 corner in Darrelle Revis, and pairing him behind Samuel would instantly give New York one of the best corner tandems in the NFL, while simultaneously sticking it to the Pats.

Another team with a ton of cap room and familiarity with Samuel is Cleveland, which had one of the more porous pass defenses in the NFL in 2007. The Browns are coached by Romeo Crennel, Samuel’s first defensive coordinator.

Browns corners Leigh Bodden and Eric Wright show promise, but neither is anywhere close to Samuel. Crennel knows Samuel is a good fit for his system and acquiring him could keep the surprising Browns in the hunt.

Pats fans fearing the worst-case scenario should realize Colts quarterback Peyton Manning was joking when he lobbied Samuel to join Indianapolis. That’s unlikely to happen, since the Colts are perpetually up against the salary cap and prefer to build through the draft, not free agency.

Wherever Samuel ends up, it’s now clear that his gambit to hold out is about to pay off.

http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/foot...position=recent

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Vers i usually agree with alot of what you say but do you really think Odom and LaBoy could play DE in our 3-4? They are 274 and 260 lbs respectively according to NFL.com. To me we just be lookin at more expensive versions of Fraser, which leaves alot to be desired.

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No problem. I could be way off. But let me say this again. I think a guy's weight is vastly overrated. We have had a lot of heavy guys here and they have all been poor. It's about leverage. Not weight.

I do disagree w/you on your claim that either would be an expensive Fraser. Both are far superior to Fraser and the only thing they have in common is their lack of bulk.

I also feel that most defensive linemen are situational guys. Teams substitute d-linemen all the time. I think both guys are quick off the ball and can rush the passer. I don't think we would go after both, but I think that either could help us.

With that said.........in no way am I saying that is what Savage will do. Fact is, I have no clue as to whom he will go after. I do know this..........we gotta bring in a couple of pass rushers. The lack of a pass rush is killing us. Bringing in one or two guys who can pressure the QB will also help Wimbley out immensely.

Like I said..........I could be way off the mark and I understand why you don't agree. I have no problem w/you not agreeing.


Django: I was thinking about Wilson too. He's better than Pool, but I was salivating over Hamlin.

I do disagree w/you on Hacket. I like Johnson better than him.

I like Williams, Kelly, B. Johnson, and Samuel. I don't think Samuel will be ending up here, but nice to dream.

I wouldn't be surprised if we go after an OLB too.. like Pace

Here is a guy I'm interested in looking at:


Michael Boley | #59 | OLB

Atlanta Falcons | Official Team Site



Height: 6-3 Weight: 242 Age: 25

Born: 8/24/1982 Gadsden , AL

College: Southern Mississippi

Experience: 3rd season

High School: Limestone Co. HS [Elkmont, AL]
TCKL
109
SCK
3.0
FF
4
INT
2

I'm not sure what your response was but I can tell you I was half joking. I know you don't believe that Madden makes a difference but I have seen way to many posts who use Madden as scouting reports. That is the reason for my comment.

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But let me say this again. I think a guy's weight is vastly overrated. We have had a lot of heavy guys here and they have all been poor. It's about leverage. Not weight.

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Leverage and smarts/instincts any day of the week.

Give me a 265 pound End who can utilize his body by shifting his weight and proper use of his hands/arms to disengage from a block over a 295 pound fattie that just occupies space and can't shed a block to save his ass!

That's true. Some further things to ponder:

---I was at the first Bengals/Browns game. I typically focus my binoculars on either the Brown's OL or the front seven when we are on defense. I do watch individual DBs on occasion, but I rarely follow the ball from the snap and instead use the line play to tell me where the ball is going.

There is a point to this.

Example 1:
Big Ted Washington was getting abused all day. I had read on here about all the double teams he faced......well........he didn't face double teams that day. The Bengal center absolutely kicked Big Ted's butt. He completely neutralized him and even put him on the ground. And who in the hell is bigger than Big Ted? The guy has his own zip code.

What can we learn from this? The Bengal center kicked Big Ted's butt not because of size, but because of technique, leverage, and quickness off of the ball.

Example 2:
Robaire Smith looked like two different players in that game. There were times when he looked great. He got off the ball quick, penetrated, and blew the play up. There were other times when he barely could get in his stance [it was hot that day] and he would just stand straight up and get pushed about 5 - 6 yds. back.

What can we learn from this? The guy who explodes off of the ball, gets low, and uses good leg drive wins the battle........regardless of size.

Example 3:
We always put wrestlers at our NT position. One year, we had two very little guys who we rotated. Both were state finalists in wrestling. Both were puny. Both were quick as hell and mean little SOB's. They created havoc and our run D was one of the best in the state. In fact, we went deep into the playoffs w/that group.

What can we learn from that? Once again, technique, quickness out of the stance, leverage, and a high motor are much more important than sheer size.


Someone will come on here and say.........Dude, that's high school and you can't compare high school to the pros.

Well, okay.......but what about the other two examples? And I could name a thousand more.

One more thing. Would anyone consider Steinbach and Joe to be really heavy guys? Why do you think they were so dominant? Size? *L*

Once again, it comes down to technique, leverage, agility, quickness, and a high motor. Weight is overrated.

Yep, no disagreement here. Speed kills. Give me a guy with technique, leverage, agility, quickness, and a high motor over a fat, slow guy anyday. Now, if you can find the big guy with the above skills- there is the perfect nose for the 3-4.

All good points. The only thing I would add to this comment:
The Bengal center absolutely kicked Big Ted's butt. He completely neutralized him and even put him on the ground. And who in the hell is bigger than Big Ted? The guy has his own zip code.

What can we learn from this? The Bengal center kicked Big Ted's butt not because of size, but because of technique, leverage, and quickness off of the ball.

would be, perhaps he got his butt kicked not so much because of technique but because he's old and he sucks.......

The names I like..

Antwan Odom, DE, Tennessee Titans

Corey Williams, DT, Green Bay Packers
Ken Hamlin, S, Dallas Cowboys..
Bryant Johnson, WR, Arizona Cardinals
Drayton Florence, CB, San Diego Chargers
Calvin Pace, LB, Arizona Cardinals
Tommy Kelly, DT, Oakland Raiders
Kawika Mitchell, LB, New York Giants
Eugene Wilson, S, New England Patriots



Several of these guys I had wanted us to take in the draft several years agao....Hamlin/Florence/Mitchell/Wilson

The thing i'm trying to wrap my self around is why a 270 quick DE is to small for the 3-4. If you have a high motor and can beat your man with your speed wouldn't the blocker need help so thus demanding a double team which is what our DE's are suppose to do... Eat up blockers.

I can understand needing the NT being 320. But 320 with quickness. I feel we need speed, high motor guys that don't give up.

I'm just trying to figure out why we have to be big and slow which we are. I'm just asking a question and need some help on understanding this.

nordawg

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would be, perhaps he got his butt kicked not so much because of technique but because he's old and he sucks.....

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Without a doubt, his advanced age let to his problems. I guess I should have clarified that. The guy was out of shape, slow out of his stance, and immobile. That led to poor technique where blockers could get underneath his pads........and all that size he had meant next to nothing.

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I'm just trying to figure out why we have to be big and slow which we are. I'm just asking a question and need some help on understanding this.

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The thinking is that in a 3-4 defense, defensive linemen are supposed to command double teams and not give ground, which allows linebackers the freedom to run to the ball.

I understand all that, but I just don't see any of our big defensive linemen being able to do that. I think we all understand the idea of leverage. Try picking up a heavy weight w/out bending your knees and using your legs. It's damn near impossible. It's the same when blocking or warding off blocks. The low man who fires off the ball wins most contests.

I am not advocating getting a bunch of small, quick defensive linemen, but I think it is unwise to rule a player out because he lacks ideal size.

That's what i'm trying to understand. I understand leverage and all, Heck i was a bricklayer for 35 yrs. Still belong to the union... I need the pension. Anyways the guys that we're really smooth and fast usually were the guys that were not the big fatties. We had to rely on techique because the weight didn't get any lighter with the yrs.

So why if a lighter guy say 270-285 that has good techique, knows how to use proper leverage and has a high motor who continuely can penatrate and would demand a double team be to small to fit in the 3-4 scheme. Wouldn't techique and motor and speed over rule shere bulk.

nordawg

Yes. But I'm not the guy you should be trying to convince. That's been my point all along. *L*

OK then....

nordawg

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but I think it is unwise to rule a player out because he lacks ideal size.

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I think this is your key point in this whole discussion. Measurables are just one component of they equation.

Having said that. There is a balance. At some point technique is not enough to overcome strength and size. That is one reason there are so many busts in the draft. A college player will be so much bigger and stronger than his opponents that despite his lack of technique he is still able to dominate. Come NFL time he goes up against players of similar size and better technique and gets manhandled.

So the points are:

1 - Don't cross a Trevor Laws off your list just because he is a little on the small side. Look at his play as well.

2 - Don't pimp a guy like Red Bryant just because he is huge. Look at his play as well.

3. There comes a point when no matter how good a guys technique is, he is just too small (We will never try Daven Holly at DE) or too slow (Ted Washigton - today's Ted not Ted 5-10 years ago) to be successful.

Just clickin

Well there is one less player hitting the FA market.

Bengals slap franchise tag on lineman Andrews for 2008 season

By John Clayton
ESPN.com


Updated: February 18, 2008, 1:11 PM ET

Cincinnati Bengals guard Stacy Andrews became the third NFL free agent to receive the franchise designation.


To keep him from leaving via free agency, the Bengals officially Monday gave Andrews a one-year, $7.455 million contract offer. Any team wanting to pull him away from the Bengals would have to give up two first-round picks.

Andrews helped anchor an offensive line that allowed just 17 sacks last season. Only New Orleans gave up fewer sacks, surrendering 16 in 2007.

Last week, the Eagles franchised tight end L.J. Smith and the Cardinals did the same with linebacker Karlos Dansby. Teams have until Thursday to designate franchise or transition tags.

Andrews' agent, Rich Moran, wasn't available for comment.

The Bengals have until mid July to work out a long-term deal with Andrews. If no long-term deal is worked out before mid-July, Andrews would have to play out the one-year tender.

John Clayton, a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame writers' wing, is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

Not sure why the Bengals Franchised a backup Olinemen. I know he started most of the year due to injuries to Willie Anderson but unless they plan on trading someone i don't understand why you would Franchise tag a backup Olineman cause you now have to pay him a top 5 OT's salary.

except that in our defensive system the DL's job isnt to shed blocks, its to eat as many blocks as they can to free LBers so they can make plays. you dont need to be 300+ to play end in a 3-4 but it sure helps alot.

edit: not to say bigger means better, but if you have a guy who is 275 with speed and technique and you have a guy who's 300 with a little less speed, but the same technique, you take the slower, bigger guy for a 3-4.

Question for ya' Vers...

U think Freeney could handle a 3-4 End spot???

He'd get his ASS HANDED TO EM' ON A PLATTER...

Freeney strives with SPEED...

Man Up on a 325 Tackle and he's dead meat...

No, I don't think he could. But, I do think that all teams rotate defensive linemen a lot. I also think that we need to bring in some pass rushers. It's pathetic.

And look here, Dawg...........I ain't saying we are going to bring in one of those lighter guys, but I don't always trust the NFL guys in terms of judgment. Hell, I have been saying for years that offensive guard is the most underrated position on the field. Well, last year the NFL folks finally started realizing that guards are important to an offense. Ya think Steiny made a difference for us?


And answer this.............how well have all those big fat guys worked out for our defensive line? Theory don't mean crap on the field. Give me a player who plays w/leverage, technique, and explosion and I will kick your big fatties all over the field.....all day......every day!

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And answer this.............how well have all those big fat guys worked out for our defensive line? Theory don't mean crap on the field. Give me a player who plays w/leverage, technique, and explosion and I will kick your big fatties all over the field.....all day......every day!

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Dude...We've had JUNK on this line for NINE YEARS...

The ONLY 2 on this team right now that could actually play elsewhere are Smith & Smith...And possibly Roye but his knees are cracklin'...

U WILL NOT SEE a 270-280 DE on this team as long as we run a 3-4...And that includes the JUNK we drafted in Purcells and Pittman...Unless Purcell's jacked up another 10+...

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Dude...We've had JUNK on this line for NINE YEARS...

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That's my point. All that weight didn't mean jack.

And why did Savage draft those two guys last year if he was so sure smaller guys can't play in the 3-4?

Bears release Muhammad, sign Brown to two-year extension

The Chicago Bears released wide receiver Muhsin Muhammad Monday, but reached a two-year extension with defensive end Alex Brown.

The Muhammad release wasn't much of a surprise. His pass reception numbers have dropped in each of the past three seasons. Muhammad caught 64 passes in 2005, 60 in 2006 and only 40 in 2007. At the age of 34, he was entering the final two years of a five-year contract. The timing of the release was curious, though, because wide receiver Bernard Berrian is a free agent and is considered one of the top free agents available.

Muhammad started all but one game in his three years with the Bears.

Brown's two-year extension was a little surprising. He was entering the final year of his contract and had expressed some unhappiness early last season about his playing time. He started only two games in 2007. Despite that, he had 41 tackles and 4½ sacks.

Muhammad is five times the receiver Berrian is. Yeah, he is getting older, but he can run routes. Berrian can't. And Muhammad even catches the ball. *L*

I know 300+ pounds is nice, but I'd rather have 280 pound gold than the 300+ pound junk we have now.

Courtney would have been real good in the 3-4. He was much better at stopping the run than rushing the passer. He had good technique and was disciplined. Sad story.


Dude, all I'm saying is that you can't say that Savage won't get a lighter guy to play in the 3-4. He probably won't, but you can't say there is no way.

And I wanna bring this up again. It never ceases to amaze me how often NFL guys mess things up. With all the money and resources they have.........they sure make a lot of mistakes. They put too much emphasis on measurables.. They allow workouts at Pro Days and the Combine to take precedence over what happens on the field. They play follow the leader and very few are innovative thinkers.

I'll stick w/what I said............give me a guy who is technically sound, plays w/good leverage, has good quickness and burst, and plays w/a high motor any day of the week over a big guy who can lift a lot of weight and run fast in a straight line in shorts.

Semantics.

Hey man........what do you know about Robertson out of GT? If you know anything, why don't you go to the Draft forum and let me hear it. You know more about the draft than I do. Educate me on this guy.

Besides re-signing Jamal, give me...

Bryant Johnson
Corey Williams
Eugene Wilson/Ken Hamlin

Obviously, Jamal Lewis is priority 1.

But, Gibril Wilson should be priorty 1a...he is a playmaking FS who held together that Giants secondary when they had to throw out the kids to the fire last year. He is smart, can help our youngsters develop and is a good player. That's what I like in a FA pickup.

And Corey Williams is an absolute monster and could easily transition to a 3-4 DE in our system. Would love to see him in Brown and Orange next year but we'd have to convince him of the system switch.


Others I like:

2. Antwan Odom, DE, Tennessee Titans: In a league starved for pass rushers, here's a 26-year old coming off an eight-sack season. The Titans will be hard-pressed to keep him considering they will have to franchise Haynesworth.

***only concern is he is a little light for 3-4 DE and a little slow for 3-4 OLB...so he'll get better $$$ from someone else.

8. Alan Faneca, G, Pittsburgh Steelers: If he were four years younger, he'd be even higher. He played at a really high level last season after a so-so 2006. But at 31, how much more does he have left?

*** actually would rather someone else take him away from the Steelers...but taking the 2 best OG from our 2 division rivals in consecutive years would taste sweet.

11. Jacob Bell, G, Tennessee Titans: He has developed into a power player for the Titans. He is part of a good offensive line that doesn't get the attention it deserves. He has 31 starts the past two seasons.

*** this guy is a beast and would be a perfect RG for us if the money isn't too high.

24. Kawika Mitchell, LB, New York Giants: He's another player who took a one-year deal and will now cash in. Mitchell exceeded a lot of expectations for the Giants

*** I like him as another OLB speed rusher...

Here is a evaluation of the Anderson situation by Pete Prisco. It also covers 9 other Restricted FA's that may get the attention of some teams.

http://sportsline.com/nfl/story/10652300/1

Free agency: Restricted usually means just too expensive

What does restricted free agent mean?

Mostly it means this: You're not going anywhere if you happen to be one.

Four restricted free agents changed teams last year. None were star players, although all four did start. They were Cleveland Browns defensive tackle Shaun Smith, Tennessee Titans middle linebacker Ryan Fowler, St. Louis Rams punter Donnie Jones and New Orleans Saints corner Jason David.

"It's tough because you have to structure a deal the team won't match and then still give up a pick," said an NFC personnel director. "No one wants to give up first-day picks and it's often hard to structure deals for the later-round compensation guys because you have to get the money up there so that they won't match, and yet you don't want to overpay. It's a tricky market."

The draft-pick compensation is decided by the kind of qualifying offer the player receives from his original team. For example, if a player is given the highest qualifying offer -- which has to happen before Feb. 28 -- the team would receive first- and third-round picks if it opts not to match any offer sheet the player would receive on the market.

Cleveland will certainly give the high qualifying offer to quarterback Derek Anderson. That means he's on the hook for $2.56 million next season, the expected number for the high tender if he's on the Browns' roster. That's provided he doesn't work out a long-term deal with Cleveland or sign an offer sheet with another team. If the Browns match that offer sheet, his contract is what is written on the sheet. If they don't match it, they get the two draft picks.

Teams are often reluctant to pay that high a price, but it's rare when a Pro Bowl quarterback with a first-round pick from last year's draft sitting behind him comes available. Anderson will be an interesting case to watch.

The next-highest qualifying tender is expected to be $2.02 million. That would mean any team would have to give up a first-round pick to sign the player with that tender if the original team didn't match the offer sheet. The second-round compensation tender is $1.47 million and the low tender is $927,000.

The low tender brings compensation commensurate to the round in which the player came into the league. For example, if a player was a sixth-round pick, and he received the low tender, the team would get a sixth-round pick if that player signed an offer sheet with another team and it wasn't matched. Teams have until April 15 to sign players to offer sheets.

As enticing as Anderson or some of the other restricted players look, don't expect much movement. Giving up draft picks for signing players is always risky, and it costs a lot of money. That's a combination that turns off most teams.

But just in case, here's a list of 10 restricted free agents to keep an eye on as we ready for the open of free agency on March 1.

Derek Anderson: Thee Browns have talked contract extension with Anderson, but no deal has been reached. If they can't reach one, they plan to put the high tender on him, meaning it would cost a first- and a third-round pick for a team to sign him. That's steep. The Pro Bowl replacement could be enticing to a quarterback-needy team. One other option would be to work out the kind of trade Atlanta and Houston made for Matt Schaub, who was a restricted free agent last year.

Marion Barber, RB, Dallas Cowboys: The Cowboys will certainly put the high tender on Barber, which would mean a team would be forced to give up a first and a third for him. That won't happen. But what if they didn't give him the high tender? Some team might think he's worth just a first. The flip side is you'd be giving up a first-round pick for a runner who didn't even start in the regular season in 2007. That will be some tough justifying.

Bo Scaife, TE, Tennessee Titans: He suffered a lacerated liver in the regular-season finale, but he didn't need surgery. He was Vince Young's go-to guy last season, catching 46 passes. He is more H-back than tight end, but Young loves him. The Titans have cap room, so it will be interesting to see how they tender him.

David Stewart, T, Tennessee Titans: Stewart is one of the best right tackles in the league. He is a power player in the Jon Runyan mold. The Titans have cap room; if they are smart, they will give Steward the high tender. If not, some team might make a run at him.

Michael Boley, LB, Atlanta Falcons: The Falcons are working to get Boley signed to a long-term extension. He had a Pro Bowl-caliber season in 2007 and he is expected to be one of the cornerstones of new coach Mike Smith's defense. If they don't sign him to a deal before the open of the period, he will likely get the high tender.

Jason Brown, G, Baltimore Ravens: He is one of the rising interior lineman in the league. Brown is a power player who excelled last season in his first as a starter. The Ravens have cap issues, which means they will likely put the second-round tender on him. That could be enticing to a team looking for interior-line help.

Chris Canty, DE, Dallas Cowboys: He dropped in the draft three years ago for injury concerns. Since coming in as a fourth-round pick, he has developed into a good defensive end, outplaying former first-round pick Marcus Spears on the same line. Canty is expected to get the high tender, so prying him away will be costly -- and unlikely. But he might be the other restricted player, in addition to Anderson, who some teams might think to be worth that price.

Jovan Haye, DT, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: He developed into a solid starter as the Bucs' under-tackle last season. The front office will try to sign him to a long-term deal, but if not, they have the room to put the high tender on him. That might be high for a player who went into the 2007 season battling for a job. Even so, he is a good player who could be worth a look for a team that plays the Tampa Bay-style of defense.

O.J. Atogwe, S, St. Louis Rams: I put this kid on my Pro Bowl team. He is an active DB who led all safeties with eight interceptions last season. And he hasn't even scratched the surface. Once he becomes more adept at identifying things, he's going to be a star. He has range and he can tackle. If the Rams give him a tender that isn't in the top two, somebody will make a run at him.

Hamza Abdullah, S, Denver Broncos: He took over as a starter in the second half of the 2007 season and was a pleasant surprise. He was drafted in the seventh round in 2005 by the Buccaneers, but they cut him. He spent time on the practice squad in 2005 with Denver and then as a special-teams player before taking over as the starter last season. The Broncos would love to keep him, but it's doubtful they'll put the high tender on him. For a team looking for a young safety, he might be worth a look.

The problem with lighter 3-4 defensive ends is that they wear down quickly over the course of a game. They need to be able to be stout against a double team and they have inside gap responsibilities that warrant being a larger human.

You brought up wrestling....put a very good guy at 171 against a good guy at 215 and the bigger guy will wear the little guy out over the long haul.

We need one defensive end like a Seymore, Henderson, Stroud, Haynesworth, Williams....a guy that solves the line like Thomas did for our OL and we'll be in business. Add some youngins to the rotation and voila! A middle of the pack DL.

Thanks for posting this in its proper place. It's a damn good article too. I think this guy knows what he is talking about.

I like both Atogwe and Canty. Both guys are play-makers and have a big upside. It will be interesting to see how St. Louis and Dallas handle these two guys.