DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs get Ben Wallace, Wally Z, Delonte West and Joe Smith in trade

j/c

I'm optomistic about this trade,...were not the Cavs winless and beaten badly when LJ wasn't on the court? It seems like with Lebron it's just getting the right combination of players,so shuffling the deck in this case can ONLY make the team better.How Ben responds to this trade I feel is going to be key.He's got a chance to revive his carreer while being on team that's a legitimate contender and also pairing up with the best player in the game right now.

If anything it's added a new found interest in the team for me,...I actually went and ordered the NBA pass so I could watch the game tonight.

Well..........I guess neither of us can prove it. I just am not big on bringing a superstar in here. LeBron is the best player in the league and it is his team.

I'm not saying you couldn't be right, but McGrady and Redd don't strike me as team players.


Other things:

DnD: I'd love to have Paul. He would be the perfect point guard for us, but LeBron says he will not be available and he is pretty good at that kind of stuff.

Perimeter defender: I think we will miss Hughes' ability to defend the dangerous guards. Hopefully West will morph into a good defender. He has the body and athleticism for it. But, make no mistake, it is very important to have a real solid perimeter defender.

Combinations for our big men: I'd like to see Z paired w/Andy and Wallace paired w/Smith. If that means Wallace comes off the bench, so be it. I think Smith could give a nice inside scoring threat to our second unit. I'm not saying that is how Brown will work it, but I think it makes sense.

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and while it sucks we can't get a guy like paul, it's awesome because lebron will have every chance to stay in cleveland, hell, he's already been here 5 years...

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Don't hold your breath...And it really doesn't matter what we do the next 2 and 3 years...IMO...

2 years ago I told Peen he was on Pluto...Not any more...

Bron wants the spotlight in the Big City...I give it a 90% shot he ends up in the NY/NJ area with his Rap Bud...

That leaves a 10% chance he stays in this mid market city...

What is it again u were just saying about a level playing field in the NBA???...Think twice about that...

I hope you're right...I'd love nuttin' more than Bron to do for Cleveland what Jordan did for Chicago...

The best thing is he'd be doin' it for his hometown team...

Many didn't see a problem with this from last October...But I did...And it's nuttin' against his not being ALL Cleveland...When he went to a Playoff game with a Yankee hat on it said ALOT...I can't even say for sure he realizes not too long ago that the Yankees to the Indians were like the Steelers to the Browns...

That was a SLAP IN THE FACE to every Tribe fan in the stands...

That tells me he has ZERO allegiance to the CITY...Now comes the bucks and the extra contracts beyond Bball...The exposure...The OPPORTUNITIES...He's already said he wants to be the 1st BILLIONAIRE professional athlete...

Ain't happenin' in Cleveland man...Don't fool yourself with the love we all have for em'...

IMO...Bron can set a STANDARD by staying here till he retires...Cause if he does stay I GUARANTEE we throw up NUMEROUS NBA CHAMPIONSHIPS...Gilberts got the bucks and is willing to bring in what we need to DOMINATE...It takes TIME...And this trade we just pulled off is STEP ONE to create the OPTION to be able to give expiring contracts for a STAR to go with Bron...

He loves the spotlight...That's obvious with what he does off the court...Don't be surprised if he opts OUT...

playing in new york won't make him a billionaire... especially if he's on a mediocre team...

he'll become a billionaire with what he does with his money... he's already on his way...

i don't see lebron leaving if this team keeps going in the right direction... he loses his wordwide status if he's not playing for a championship caliber team...

i truly believe what happens with this team at the deadline next year, and in the offseason following, will make or break the cavaliers... if they can bring in that big name guy to play alongside lebron, there'd be just no way he'd leave town, because he could contend for a championship every year...

oh, and him wearing the yankee hat was not a slap to the face of every indian fan, speak for yourself, i, and a ton of people i know, could care less what baseball team he roots for, he is not obligated to root for the browns, indians, or anyone else...

i just don't understand those people...

A fun little start tonight. Wallace has a couple blocks/steals, West had a nice assist for a dunk to Bron and a trey. Its fun to watch right now.

lol, Cavs are up 18-8 in a "spank job" as he said.

could we have gotten a better opponent to play against with all these new players?

they look really good so far, but it is memphis, so i'm not too surprised...

wallace looks good on defense, and on the glass...

west has already given lebron the alley oop...

and wally is about to make his entrance... i wanna see him rain some 3s

In best Cartman Voice "I love you guys"



Edit: Can't get it to work... have tried FF and IE... <sigh>

DJ and the 'hawk stroking the 3! Up by 16 already.

You know the basketball gods are smiling on us when Big Ben makes both ends of his first free throws as a Cav.

I'm getting goosebumps watching this team, and then thinking about still adding Gibson, Pavlovic, and Varejao to this rotation...

PG- West, Jones
SG- Pavlovic, Gibson, Brown
SF- James, Wally
PF- Wallace, Smith
C- Z, Varejao, Jones

That's 11 deep!!!

32-13 after 1!

LMAO...Gilbert asks Carr a question...

How does Ben's presence help Z get more rebounds???

Innocent owners...Love ya' Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geeze ... I log into the game and Memphis rolls off three straight ... maybe I should close the window.

+21 at half. Z with a double-double, Smith with 9, LBJ with 14. This has been fun, so far.

Thanks for replying in regards to Paul. However, I am interested more in what you guys think of our perimeter defense and which combinations Brown will use w/our big men.

Btw.......what was the starting lineup tonight?

Devin Brown
Delonte West
Ben Wallace
LBJ
Big Z

Thanks jay!

In this game, the defense looks solid.

However .... Memphis really has no inside game, so it's really hard to get a really good read ......

That being said, I think that we'll be an outstanding defensive team in a couple of weeks when we get everyone back, and the new guys get completely acclimated to the system.

The big men rotation will be interesting to me. I think its a safe bet to say that it'll be Z/Wallace and Varejao/Smith most times, because it evens things out. However, dividing those minutes will be interesting to keep some egos in check.

On the perimeter I think Sasha keeps his starting job, based largely on his defense. He played pretty well against both Vince Carter and Rip Hamilton in the playoffs. Plus, Devin Brown is an above-average defender in his own right. I think Delonte West will see the vast majority of minutes at PG. He passes well and is a good defender. I think the big loser in this is Damon Jones. Its a little bit of a shame because DJ has been playing well the past few games, but he just seems to be the odd guy out to me.

I love the point distribution right now. LBJ has 18, Z has 15, Smith has 12, Wallace has 10, Jones has 8, Wally has 7, Devin has 6 and Delonte has 5. Pretty nice distribution so far.

Nice post!

I personally like Jones coming off the bench... I'm sure his minutes will be cut once everyone is healthy, but he seems to always been the odd man out... I just don't think he has the consistency that you really need to get significant minutes every night.

With that said, when he is on he is lights out! And we'll need him to be solid from the outside if we're going to make a push in the playoffs.

For those that have nothing to do tonight, we can see the other half of this trade tonight as the Bull are playing Houston on ESPN.

Updating an earlier post, these stat lines look pretty good to me:

LeBron:25 pts, 11 asts, 7 rebs
Z: 22 pts, 13 rebs
Smith: 14 pts, 6 rebs
Wallace: 12 pts (tied season-high!), 10 rebs
Da. Jones: 11 pts
Wally: 10 pts.
Devin Brown: 9 pts, 6 asts.
West: 5 pts, 6 asts, 3 stls

Thanks for responding, YTown.

I agree w/you that our inside D should be better. I hate to say it will be, but I can't see how it won't. I liked Gooden, but he was a bit slow upstairs. I'm not really insulting the guy, it's just the way it is. His rotations were slow and sometimes he just forgot. His weak-side help was hit and miss. Wallace will be a huge upgrade.

My concern is on the perimeter. For as awful as Hughes was in his stint here, he could defend. His defense went a long way in regards to us beating Detroit last year in the playoffs. He really clamped down on Billups. We will miss that.

A side note: You know what is crazy. Was it just me or did it seem that Hughes was finally finding his place in our offense over the last half-dozen games or so? Freaking ironic. I am not saying we shouldn't have made the trade, because the more time I have to reflect on the move, the more I like it. But damn man........I wish Hughes could have given us that offense from day one.


I also like Newbel's perimeter D. He could match up w/the big 2s and most 3s. He could check them off the dribble.

It appears that we should be improved on the interior defensively, but we might be hurting more on the perimeter. One good thing............LeBron's defense continues to get better and better. Hell, just two to three years ago, he may have been one of the worst defenders in the league. He's getting much better. It's a pride thang.

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I also like Newbel's perimeter D.

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Newble's defense is highly overrated.

Thanks log for replying.

The bigs [I love Austin Carr] rotation is very interesting. I agree that it will probably be Z/Wallace and Andy/Smith. It just seems like the move Brown will make.

Think about this..........I would rather see Z w/Andy and Wallace w/Smith. I know that Wallace isn't a true center, but he does have more strength than Andy. It would still give us that offensive/defensive presence.

Of course, they will mix and match and we both know that we are just talking about initial starters and rotations. We actually have quite a bit of flexibility.


Perimeter: Funny about Sasha. Remember when his defense sucked? I still think that guy could turn into a really decent player. He has the skills and athletic ability, he just needs the mental fortitude and confidence to make the jump.

Jones should get quite a bit of time while Booby is out. He has played well and I feel he is the kind of guy whose minutes should vary. If he is hot.....go w/him...if he struggles w/the J........take him out. My trouble w/him is that he is perhaps the worst defender in the NBA.

You said West is a good defender. I hadn't heard that, but I don't follow the west coast teams much. I hope he is. I love his skill set and I still think he is the guy who could really make this a huge trade for us.

Let me ask you this...........he seems to have all the physical skills that you need. Has he had any character issues?

I think he defends the dribble very well. Now........you wanna expand on your comment, or am I just supposed to buy it? *L*

I tink that Sasha's defense really improved last season .... and hopefully he'll be able to take another step foirward when he returns to action.

West is definitely quick, seems to have quick hands, and has really good size. From what I understand, his issue was that he played both guard spots ..... and never really settled into a role with the Sonics ... especially with them already being deep at the PG spot with Ridenour and Watson.

Yeah, that is what I wanna hear about West. I loved the dude at St. Joe's. He's got perhaps a little too much street ball in him, but on the other hand, we could use that. I like his length at that position and I also like how he can either drive it or shoot it. Always seemed like a well-rounded offensive player to me.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10665783

Now with true weapons, Cavs poised to make title run

CLEVELAND -- An hour before tip-off, imported point guard Delonte West was being shown on a grease board how the Cleveland Cavaliers use screens on the pick-and-roll. Imported shooting guard Wally Szczerbiak was scrambling to find the right size compression shorts. Imported power forward Ben Wallace was talking about playing power forward for the first time in four years. Imported forward Joe Smith was being shown the spot on the floor -- 17 feet from the basket, two steps from the foul line -- where most of his jumpers would come.

It was controlled chaos.

LeBron James was loving it.

"It's gonna work," James said. "It's gonna work. I'm not worried about anything. It's gonna work."

Two days after the massive three-team trade that cleaned out nearly half of Cleveland's roster, James got to play with his new toys Sunday night -- and everybody inside Quicken Loans Arena had a blast. The Cavaliers led by nearly 30 points in the first half and coasted to a 109-89 victory against Memphis.

We pause here for a few words on Memphis: Memphis is terrible. Giving up Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and Javaris Crittenton turned Memphis from bad to dreadful. The Grizzlies were 13-31 with Gasol. That's bad. They are 1-10 without him. That's dreadful.

But that doesn't take away from Cleveland's upgrade after dealing with Seattle and Chicago to move six players and add four. Thanks to that trade, the Cavaliers are a lot better. Not a little better. Not moderately better. A lot better. Significantly better.

Good enough to beat Detroit and Boston in the East. Good enough to get to the NBA Finals for a second consecutive season and, unlike last year, avoid being swept. The Cavaliers haven't become the new favorite to win the 2008 NBA Finals. But they have become the latest legitimate contender.

In the trade that brought Wallace, Szczerbiak, West and Smith, the Cavaliers added experience, toughness, shooting and defense. What did they subtract? Their most selfish players, Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden, and four dime-a-dozen scrubs.

The Cavaliers are a lot better. And James, who all but demanded the Cavaliers do something before the trade deadline, knows it.

"We weren't in a position (before) to win a championship," he said. "We just got better."

Check this out:

The four new Cavaliers are shooting 40.5 percent on 3-pointers. The six former Cavs were at 33.6 percent.
The four new Cavaliers have combined for 264 steals and blocked shots. The six former Cavs combined for 199.
The four new Cavaliers have 321 assists to 220 turnovers, a plus-100 ratio. The six former Cavs had 180 assists and 222 turnovers, or minus-42.
In other words, with one massive trade Cleveland now defends, values the ball, passes and shoots better.

That ought to help in the playoffs.

So you're damn right James seems pleased. And Cavaliers coach Mike Brown seems downright thrilled. One day he has a team with a limited ceiling, and the next he has a helium balloon.

"I don't have to be a trickster," Brown said, making a mockingly serious face. "I don't have to be the technical coach of the year. These guys know how to play. I just need to make sure I don't get in the way too much."

Before the trade, the Cavaliers were brutal to watch when the ball wasn't in James' hands. Hughes was a one-on-one player. Gooden was a black hole. The other players jettisoned in the trade -- Shannon Brown, Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble and Cedric Simmons -- were just taking up space. There's a reason James felt the need to take every shot in the fourth quarter of the 2007 playoffs: His teammates sucked.

Sunday night, the Cavaliers moved the ball like a college team. They passed up open shots to find a teammate with an even better look at the basket. It was fun to watch.

The enhanced ball movement is one of the most obvious improvements for Cleveland. The added toughness on defense is the other. Slow-walking Zydrunas Ilgauskas will never be an enforcer, but Gooden couldn't be bothered to even try. Wallace, on the other hand, is a one-man defensive nightmare -- forcing one turnover Sunday by harassing Hakim Warrick for 50 feet until he lost control, and forcing another by denying Memphis point guard Kyle Lowry for five full seconds on an inbounds pass.

With Wallace, the Cavaliers' nasty defense -- one-half of their foundation, LeBron James being the other -- just got nastier.

"My style, I take a lot of hits ... but I got some protection now," James said with a huge smile. "I'm not worried about getting hit too hard. I got some veteran protection."

And some veteran production. Playing power forward for the first time since he was in Detroit and the Pistons acquired Rasheed Wallace in 2004, Wallace finished his Cleveland debut with a season-high 12 points and 10 rebounds. Smith hit three jumpers from that spot near the foul line and finished with 14 points and six rebounds. West had six assists. Szczerbiak had 10 points.

James was his usual self: 25 points, seven rebounds, 11 assists. Ilgauskas (22 points, 13 rebounds) had a double-double by halftime. Damon Jones (11 points) gave the Cavs six scorers in double figures. Three other usual candidates -- Daniel Gibson, Anderson Varejao and Sasha Pavlovic -- didn't play because of injury. They'll come back, and when they do, the Cavaliers will be something they weren't before the trade:

Deep. Dominant. And contenders for the NBA championship.

i'm so jacked for wednesday

i hope we go into the fleet center and wipe the floor with paul pierce and his overrated celtics...