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Put here as a QB article rather than cluttering another thread..

Drafting Quinn proves prophetic
Browns backup rates well against 2008 QB class
Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:18 AM
By James Walker

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

INDIANAPOLIS -- The scrutiny of this year's quarterback class might be compared to that of presidential hopefuls.

With the exception Boston College's Matt Ryan, no team is sold on the candidates.

Delaware's Joe Flacco, Michigan's Chad Henne, Louisville's Brian Brohm and Kentucky's Andre Woodson are at the head of a questionable 2008 quarterback class.

Such a group makes for dangerous waters many NFL teams have to tread this offseason. But with wise planning, the Cleveland Browns were able to avoid the storm.

Cleveland traded its 2008 first-round pick to the Dallas Cowboys last year and then took quarterback Brady Quinn with the No. 22 overall pick. Cleveland's scouting staff was not convinced that players such as Henne, Flacco, Brohm and Woodson would develop into elite prospects. Quinn was a more polished quarterback, the Browns reasoned, so it was worth moving up to draft the former Notre Dame and Dublin Coffman quarterback.

Now Cleveland has one of the best quarterback duos in the league, with Derek Anderson potentially as the starter and Quinn as a highly touted backup.

ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. declared the move to get Quinn "a stroke of genius."

"What Phil Savage did was a very accurate assessment," Kiper said. "There are a lot of second-round quarterbacks. There are a lot of third- and fourth-round quarterbacks this year. But there aren't a lot of first-round quarterbacks besides (Ryan). . . . So they already have Brady Quinn and they're ahead of the curve. He graded higher than those guys, so it was a great move."

Kiper says he had Quinn rated on par with Ryan -- a projected top-five pick -- and significantly higher than the rest of the 2008 quarterback class.

It's possible Quinn could play regularly this season. He played briefly in the season finale against the San Francisco 49ers and completed 3 of 8 passes for 45 yards.

The Browns are in contract negotiations with Anderson, who recently turned down a three-year deal worth $16 million, with $11 million guaranteed. Anderson's representatives are seeking a deal in the six-year range, and the Browns appear steadfast on keeping the length at three years.

If the sides cannot come to terms by next week, Cleveland will offer Anderson the highest tender. Any other team would have to give Cleveland first- and third-round draft picks to sign Anderson, and the Browns also would have the right to match any offer.

The move to get Quinn gave the Browns a fall-back in case Anderson is not retained. Yesterday at the NFL combine, Browns general manager Phil Savage said he was happy with his team's quarterback situation.

"We feel good about it," Savage said. "I'd rather be standing up here with two quarterbacks than one or none. It's one of the more unique circumstances any team in the league has right now, and it's going to take some work, some manipulation and some wisdom to work through it, but time has a way of working things out."

Savage said he grades Quinn equal with Ryan. That means the Browns, as they did a year ago, still believe Quinn is a significantly better prospect than the rest of quarterbacks in this year's draft.

Most NFL teams agree. The difference is that Cleveland saw it a year ahead of time.

Of course, no one will know for sure until this year's quarterbacks reach the field.

"They can say whatever they want. It's going to be up to us," Flacco said of the 2008 quarterback class. "Once we get into the league, we'll have a chance to play and prove them wrong."

jwalker@dispatch.com

What I really wonder is how this affects the FA QB situation.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for a team to give us their first and third, given how starved the QB market is right now.

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You got a lot of ifs in there, big man.

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Well, we were talking hypothetically. And given that, I take back everything I said as none of it was real or related to any situation we find ourselves in now.

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But if DA goes to another team, continues to improve, and becomes a legit franchise QB..........and BQ struggles............our franchise is going to be set back quite a distance.

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Vers- if that scenario would happen to come true, I'd agree that it could set us back.

I'd also be interested in your take on this scenario: DA gets traded, prospers, but BQ also plays well for the Browns after taking starting role.

Don't read anything into my question... I liked what DA did last year, and wouldn't mind seeing him here next year. I'm also on the record as not knowing much at all about Quinn, so there's no love affair for him going on here. Only reason I've asked the way I did is because I don't remember reading any posts of yours that could allow for that possibility....


thoughts?

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Well, we were talking hypothetically.

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LOL.......perhaps you were.

I had responded to DnD w/the comment that I thought he was crazy to say that DA wouldn't have played last year if we didn't draft BQ. I don't think BQ had anything to do w/DA taking over for Frye in game one. He would have replaced him regardless. I also don't think Frye would have played good in that Steeler game had BQ not been on the roster. Sorry bro, but it sounds crazy to me. *L*

I didn't say the word "garbage" because you mentioned that we may have taken Wright at # 36. I said it because when we made the move for BQ......we had this year's first round pick and last year's # 36 pick. They were ours. We made moves to reposition ourselves in last year's draft after we traded for BQ.

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your argument boils down to this: it was a gamble....yes, it was....but it´s nothing new that I´ll tell you now: it is ALWAYS a gamble to take a QB high

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I don't know if it "boils down to," but yes, it is always a gamble to pick a QB high. My problem at the time was that I had some big concerns about BQ's game and that we came pretty darn close to giving up two first round picks for him. Yes, I know it was a first and a second, but # 36 is a high pick.

Of course, everyone seems to think it was a "stroke of genius" to acquire BQ. Perhaps I'm wrong to think it is a pretty big gamble. Then again, Savage said the same thing right after he made the pick. He said it would go down as a move that turns the franchise around or it would end up costing him his job. I'd say that qualifies as a gamble. *L*

BQ might work out. I am NOT saying he won't. So, I hope people don't put words in my mouth like they usually do. My point has been that I think we should keep both QBs until one of them really proves himself and wins the job.......ya' know, on the field and not in the press, or on talk shows and message boards.

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I think it´s pretty dumb on DAs camp part not to take the 11mil guaranteed and be happy for the time being, he just doesnt have the leverage and probably hasn´t earned a mil yet in 3 seasons, he HAS to consider that

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That's a good point. Hopefully, he will sign the 3 year deal that is close in compensation that Savage is offering. His agent is probably looking for a big payday......or it could all be part of the process. But yeah, I think he would do himself well by signing the 3 year deal.......unless he has been reading this message board and has decided he doesn't want to subject himself to the hatred of the Cleveland fans any longer.

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...if we didn't draft BQ.

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I missed that.

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Vers- if that scenario would happen to come true, I'd agree that it could set us back.

I'd also be interested in your take on this scenario: DA gets traded, prospers, but BQ also plays well for the Browns after taking starting role.

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Clem, that is a possibility. Hell, it is a possibility that DA will suck here in Cleveland if we keep him and it is also a possibility that he will suck if he plays elsewhere. I would never deny those possibilities.

I brought up that particular scenario because it seems that the vast majority of posters think it would be wise to move DA and turn the team over to BQ. If the tables were turned, then I would be bringing up the possibility of DA failing and BQ succeeding.

Does that make sense? Let me try it this way. I just think it is safer and in the best interest of the Cleveland Browns to keep both QBs until one of them wins the job or one of them plays so terrible that he loses it.

The QB position is the most important on the field. I think it would be wise to keep both guys, take our time, and allow the situation to play out.

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I just think it is safer and in the best interest of the Cleveland Browns to keep both QBs until one of them wins the job or one of them plays so terrible that he loses it.

The QB position is the most important on the field. I think it would be wise to keep both guys, take our time, and allow the situation to play out.

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Me too.

{quote]I gotta say this and I completely understand that 99.5% of you won't agree.

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At least get it right bro. It's 89.3 percent as of yesterday

This is going to get interesting now on many different levels ...

1. just like 2 or 3 days ago after Opie was interviewed by Donovan people got way to giddy and thought a deal was immeninent ... now their getting to down that it will happen ...

2. If we do tender him (witch to me makes the most sense for DA ... ) we still can sign him for 3 years ... and if that deal is to happen thats when I would expect it to happen ... it never made sense to me why DA would sign it before getting real close to the FA deadline or actually hitting it .. the closer U get to it the more u find out about your true value in the market ...

3. when we tender him and the 3 year deal is still out there .... we wil learn alot about Da and his mindset as to weather he signs the 3 year deal or takes the tender ... personally I hope he takes the 3 year deal so we either have him for a back up for 3 years or we get something for him in a trade at some point ....

Toadie .... 12 - 14 mill in SB for DA for 3 years ..... *LOL* ... thats way more than Romo got for 6 or 7 years ... guess U kinda were a WEE BIT OFF on that figure ....

and to all .. no where do i see wher dA's agent is looking for Romo type of Money ... the scribes are still just ASSuming that ... my guess and I STRESS GUESS is he;s looking for sumton between Roma and Schuab money ... but not romo type money ...

Vers I hate to do this bro .. but i got to ... I read everything about ND and about BQ ... i HAVE NEVER EVER EVER HEARD a teammate or ANYONE ASSOCIATED with the ND program say anything but how GREAT OF A GUY AND TEAMATE AND LEADER BQ IS ...

I have no clue where u heard it .. but I find it REAL HARD TO BELIEVE .... it goes against the 100 stories I've read or heard directly from people at ND or anyone that has ever met the kid ...

please share with me on this thread or in a PM where u heard that .. I'd be very curious to know where that came from ...

I'm not going to get into the accuracy/inflated Stats ... been there done that ... no sense doing it again .... we just disagree .. and in what has become my battle cry since the day we drafted him .... U WILL SEE .... and bro .. U ARE GOING TO END UP LOVING THAT TRADE ...

you'll see ...

OH ... and i thingk if we get a 1st for DA he'd be gone in a heartbeat ..and IMO he SHOULD BE ... u offer me a 2nd int he top 10 - 15 picks .. SEE YA ...

but IMO IF he does hit the market ... we won't see enough to trade him ...

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Let me try it this way. I just think it is safer and in the best interest of the Cleveland Browns to keep both QBs until one of them wins the job or one of them plays so terrible that he loses it.

The QB position is the most important on the field. I think it would be wise to keep both guys, take our time,* and allow the situation to play out.

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Makes perfect sense to me. As you laid it out, it's the most prudent way to proceed... since NONE of us *should* be 100% sure about either QB at this point.


FWIW, I hate all the endless QB debates in Cleveland, and wait for a time when they're finally quieted... which is kinda what I think this offseason (and possibly next season) are about. I get the feeling that the FO sees it that way, too. They really do want to see more of DA, before having to make a choice. They also should feel a bit justified in wanting to see more before committing to big bux or a long-term marriage. (He got us close to the playoffs, but not in.)

Getting him signed to an attractive, incentive-laden 3-year contract accomplishes that, without breaking the piggy bank. Contracts can always be renegotiated, or trades can always be made... down the road. Right now, it's in Cleveland's best interest to have BOTH QB's on the roster in '08.


Back on topic: I said it months ago, and I'll reiterate it now: "Two 'promising QB's' are better than one promising question mark." I'm still waiting for someone to convince me otherwise.


.02


p.s.: * "take our time"... I think that's the part of your post where you lose a wholelotta Dawgs, Vers. Patience is fast becoming a lost art these days... and it becomes even harder to muster when your team has been starved of championships for so long. In this case, the best medicine for Cleveland is the hardest for some to swallow. Ironic, ain't it?

They're both dragging thier feet for essentially the same reason... they want to see just how strong that demand really is. It behooves both sides to wait and see. Play like they're doing everything they can, do the high tender tango and see what dance partners suanter onto the floor. They're both doing it.

Prediction... 4 year deal for Anderson. The trade off is just too expensive for rebuilding teams. And no one is "a QB away" from the super bowl.

I tend to agree diam...it really doesn't make much sense for DA to sign early....never did, but now that we are nearing the deadline, it is viewed as a big problem.

Just because we tender the guy doesn't mean we can't reach some agreement a few weeks later.

The only way he would have signed is if we had given a huge number up front, and that doesn't make sense either.

First, both of them want to see where the market is for his services.

Had Savage gone in high, that would have signaled other teams they had to go higher...the signal Savage wants to send is that DA can be had even if he really doesn't want to lose him. That keeps whatever number that might be offered low enough so we can match if we choose to do so......AND a low umber doesn't scare off too many teams so we do have the option of letting him go for some assortment of picks. It gives the impression we would be willing to deal.

We also have to be aware of Quinns numbers. It wouldn't be good to work this where Quinn feels like a leftover if Anderson does leave.

Whatever number we finally go with if we keep DA will be numbers in line with Quinns numbers assuming he was the starter and earning his bonus money.

We can't tell DA he is worth less than Quinn and we can't leave Quinn with a sour taste in his mouth if DA moves on after offering him a contract that eclipses Quinns numbers by a great deal .

If DA is the teams choice, and they know it right now, they will wait to see what kind of numbers are thrown around before they play their final hand.

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Vers I hate to do this bro .. but i got to ... I read everything about ND and about BQ ... i HAVE NEVER EVER EVER HEARD a teammate or ANYONE ASSOCIATED with the ND program say anything but how GREAT OF A GUY AND TEAMATE AND LEADER BQ IS ... I have no clue where u heard it .. but I find it REAL HARD TO BELIEVE .... it goes against the 100 stories I've read or heard directly from people at ND or anyone that has ever met the kid ...

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No reason to hate to do it. It is a legitimate question. Let's test that memory of yours out.

Do you remember last year in the time leading up to the draft and there was a lot of Anti-Quinn posting on here? Do you also remember that it was me who said that that BQ was my second choice after Joe? Funny how so many people who thought BQ sucked last year at this time, now think he is the second coming. *L*

Anyway........if you remember, I decided to start researching BQ because there was a lot of negative talk on here about him and you were praising him to high heaven. It was a contradiction of immense proportions. I chose to educate myself and I researched the hell outta the kid.

Now.....here's the part where I really test your memory. I didn't post those articles, but do you remember me telling you that I had found some very unflattering remarks about BQ? Bro, I didn't want to pile-on you, because you had more than enough posters attacking you as it was.

The article was out there. I am not saying that it is true. Hell, I read that Joe Thomas was going to be another Robert Gallery. You take information like that and store it away. If things start to happen that indicate that it's true, you have a little background knowledge that helps you quickly draw a conclusion. If nothing happens, you dismiss the information for what it is......garbage.

Now...........I wanna say this about BQ. That arrogant attitude showed itself somewhat before the season. We would hear things like the autograph signing at the HOF. It made me wonder if we had another Joey Harrington on our hands. However, once the season started..........BQ looked to be a really good teammate. I read body language and the kid wasn't moping on the sideline. He was in w/the coaches and DA on the sidelines. He was contributing. He didn't bitch one time all year. That says a lot to me. I think he handled his first year in a positive manner.

I will watch the situation w/interest though. Bro, BQ looks the part of the arrogant ass. He makes a lot of commercials, he had a long hold out, he is kind of a pretty boy, he is attractive to Ammo..........*L* ...........Sorry Ammo, but that one thread you started has kinda stuck w/me.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how his teammates accept him. Bro, I can tell you this.............the Brown's players, and especially the offensive line, love DA. They loved him last year and wanted him to be the starter. I thought they were nuts. I thought DA sucked, but now ........I can see why. I think this could be a delicate situation. I hope we take our time and it all works out.

I gotta defend BQ on one thing before I go. Should have done it earlier. One poster remarked about BQ getting in trouble w/the law. Man, he didn't get into trouble w/the law. I read that dumb-ass thread in the Tailgate. I didn't comment on it because it was way overblown. That rivals Timid getting trashed for getting a speeding ticket. I hardly think anyone can call BQ a punk because he allegedly got into an argument w/a group of gay guys.

It was a fact. I didn't save the article and it occurred about a year ago. Now, are you going to call me a liar?

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And guys........the success rate of QBs chosen late in round one is putrid.



A valid point, but don't forget in most instances 1st round QB's are cast into a bad situation. Be it poor protection, no running game, and no weapons to work with. The situation here is Cleveland at this time is perfect for a QB to be successful, thats not always the case for 1st round QB's. You have a valid point but I think a average QB would look pretty good here now, and a great one would be unbelievable...

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Yes, it is valid. In fact, it is probably even more valid than you realize. I said "late first round picks." Now, think about what you said. 1st round QB's are cast into a bad situation. Be it poor protection, no running game, and no weapons to work with.

Bone, QBs who are picked late in round one are usually playing w/the better teams. There are trades, but most teams pick in their slot and the later you pick, the better your record is.

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This is going to get interesting now on many different levels ...

1. just like 2 or 3 days ago after Opie was interviewed by Donovan people got way to giddy and thought a deal was immeninent ... now their getting to down that it will happen ...

2. If we do tender him (witch to me makes the most sense for DA ... ) we still can sign him for 3 years ... and if that deal is to happen thats when I would expect it to happen ... it never made sense to me why DA would sign it before getting real close to the FA deadline or actually hitting it .. the closer U get to it the more u find out about your true value in the market ...

3. when we tender him and the 3 year deal is still out there .... we wil learn alot about Da and his mindset as to weather he signs the 3 year deal or takes the tender ... personally I hope he takes the 3 year deal so we either have him for a back up for 3 years or we get something for him in a trade at some point ....

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Dian and all Browns fans...I believe we fans are beating this dead horse to death, again.

No one can predict what "will" happen but the lucky one that does come close will claim the prize of being the "most knowledgeable football mind" on this website.

But, hey, someone has to win the prize...

I prefer to set back and watch, most of the time, knowing that the Browns will be fine regardless of what happens in the DA contract drama.

We have a guy controlling the situation that will not let DA get away from the franchise without compensation that benefits the franchise.

Remember this, Browns fans..anything can happen at any time when it comes to the Browns QB situation. Do we forget so soon, the Frye situation that no one predicted.

So when a winner is crowned the "most knowledgeable football mind" on this website...that honor could be taken away after the first game of this season is played...it has happened before.

It is nice to set back and relax...knowing Phil Savage has our back and he will do what is best for the franchise.

But trying to predict what is going to happen..we need to keep in mind, when it happens, it might not be the end of the drama...

Trust in Savage...I say...mac

And?

LOL..............I love the posts about how people shouldn't speculate. There is one on this thread and another on the K2 thread. We shouldn't speculate or discuss things.......ya know..........on a message board.

I suppose we should just post articles that contain only news and then have 53 people reply w/the phrase: "Thanks for posting."

I just wanted to know if you could produce evidence to back up the "facts" of your story.

I just told you ......"no." So what?

Look here.........I know what you're doing. So does most of the board. I've been around long enough.....and most of these guys know I don't make crap up. They might not agree w/my opinions, but they know I am not a liar.

And I really could care less if you believe me or not. Let's just say that you think I am making it up and leave it at that.

Yes, I remember all of that .... I was being serious for once when i said i have a great memory .... especially for irrelivent BS that will no way help me in the real world ...

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Bro, BQ looks the part of the arrogant ass. He makes a lot of commercials, he had a long hold out, he is kind of a pretty boy

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and thats part of the problem ... he has a big target on his back and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HE'S DONE ... it has everything to do with the fact he's good looking, is very intelligent and is very articulate .. hes the GOLDEN CHILD from ND ... alot of folks are jealous of him and are out to get him .. and like i said it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HE;S DONE and everything to do with their PERCEPRTION of what he looks like and represents ....

U said u did all this research .. how many articles did u find saying he was an arrogant ass and a bad teammate ... it sounds like one ..... but how many was it ... and did u find any saying what a great guy he was and his teammates loved him ... and if so how many .... cause i read PLENTY OF THEM .... amd also heard from people at ND what a GREAT KID HE WAS ....

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Now...........I wanna say this about BQ. That arrogant attitude showed itself somewhat before the season. We would hear things like the autograph signing at the HOF. It made me wonder if we had another Joey Harrington on our hands.

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I am not going to get into the HOF thing ... I didn't back then and i wont now .. let me just ask this ...

what other things were there??? was it that he was down in Zona WORKING HIS ASS OFF DURING HIS HOLDOUT .... was it that he bought a house near either Sherrier or Chud so he could be in closer contact with him?? was it when he crawled up Dorsey's ass to learn everything he posible could???

what else was their bro?????

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Anyway, it will be interesting to see how his teammates accept him. Bro, I can tell you this.............the Brown's players, and especially the offensive line, love DA. They loved him last year and wanted him to be the starter. I thought they were nuts. I thought DA sucked, but now ........I can see why. I think this could be a delicate situation. I hope we take our time and it all works out.

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its great they love DA .. that is a great thing .... but guess what .. they can love BQ to ... this has been one sided so far ... its been all DA ... well thats about to change and change drastically ... BQ is not a raw ass rookie straight off of ND's campus who doesn't know the playbook and missed a huge chunk of TC that put him way behind anymore ... he can more than stand onhis own to legs now ... and I am going to tell U right now bro .. he will make us all forget DA ... U WILL SEE .... now if u wanna call me an arrogant ass .. unlike BQ I DESERVE IT ....

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Anyway........if you remember, I decided to start researching BQ because there was a lot of negative talk on here about him and you were praising him to high heaven. It was a contradiction of immense proportions.

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If U remember correctly .. last year i said the follwoing ...

BQ will work his ass off .... and u will love what u hear in this regard ... we havent really heard much in this regard ... but the little we have learned point to this being true ...

- BQ would make u all proud .... he hasnt had the chance yet but he will ..

the rest of what i said hasn;t been proven yet and I don't feel like typing it all out again .. *L* ... but it WILL BE PROVEN ...

U WILL SEE ....

Toad .. the #'s say the total ofthe deal were offering is 12 mill ... is the ENTIRE CONTRACT GOING TO BE GAURANTEED MONEY???

Just quit trying to spin and LOWER YOUR NUMBERS ... until then i will continue to be a wind bag ....

I cant find it in this thread anymore .. so it must have been another one ... but the one in here said that it was for 9 - 11 mill TOTAL .... or maybe I misread it ... if DA was offered 11 mill gauranteed he be a FOOL TO TURN IT DOWN ...

THATS JUST STUPID .... he'd be a MORON TO TURN THAT DOWN ...

I tried to start looking for articles on Quinn's leadership ability... I didn't remember anything negative coming out pre-draft, but don't doubt that Vers saw something...

but I found this article and thought it was well written. It's from the summer before Quinn's senior year but talks about some of his leadership ability, work ethic, and relationship with his teammates.

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What's Left for Brady Quinn?

By Mike Frank

Posted Jul 13, 2006

It’s been almost four years since August 12, 2002. I remember the day the news came. The Irish had been in a fierce battle with Michigan over a top quarterback prospect, Brady Quinn. The scales tipped on either side daily….Irish fans were sweating, Michigan fans were sweating, but Quinn went with his heart and ultimately chose Notre Dame.

I remember talking to Quinn that day and many days afterwards. Quinn seemed supremely confident in his decision to attend Notre Dame. He spoke with a passion and obligation to restore the Irish to their lofty perch atop college football. He talked of championships, extending tradition, and helping build his future team, which is exactly what he did.

Quinn took to the phone like he did the weight room, and if you ever saw Quinn as a true freshman, you know what I’m talking about. One doesn’t get the nickname “beach body” by being a slacker. Quinn will likely always regret telling me that.

He got to know his future All-American receiver Jeff Samardzija quickly. He was already best friends with Irish wide receiver-turned-safety Chinedum Ndukwe. He also placed numerous calls to future starters Ryan Harris, Tommie Zbikowski, John Sullivan, Trevor Laws and many others top performers in the class of 2003. He also worked on former five-star tight end Greg Olsen and had success, albeit short-lived. From the word go, Quinn was showing a leadership and commitment to being the best, and he knew he’d need help to get there.

His leadership didn’t stop with phone calls. In the summer of 2003, Quinn set a new standard by leaving his hometown of Dublin, Ohio for the Notre Dame campus long before his August report date. Quinn saw no need to sit and wait and took it upon himself to report early to Notre Dame to start learning the new system. His early presence prompted many of his future teammates and eventual starters to join him on campus to get a head start on their Notre Dame careers.

That commitment paid huge dividends for Quinn.

“I’m very pleased with his progress up to now. I think he’s probably a little bit further ahead than most freshmen when they would come in,” said then Irish offensive coordinator Bill Diedrick of Quinn the day former No. 2 quarterback Chris Olsen saw the writing on the wall and ultimately decided to transfer out of Notre Dame.

“The one thing that Brady did do was a tremendous amount of study, not only last spring, but definitely over the course of the summer. I think it really gave him an extra boost coming into camp, and I think throughout camp he was able to compete on a very equal basis.”

I remember speaking to Quinn late July in 2003 before he reported to his first fall camp. Quinn had spent the entire summer working out with his new teammates and working within the system. I remember asking him if he felt he had a chance to take the No. 2 spot in the fall. I remember his response like it was yesterday. It went something like this: “I’m not competing to be No. 2, I want to start.”

Little did I know how attainable that goal actually was at the time……

In the second game of Brady Quinn’s college career, the wide-eyed freshman stepped in for a struggling Carlyle Holiday against the team he spurned, the Michigan Wolverines. Quinn was hardly spectacular that day with a 3-for-10 performance and an interception, but most Irish fans knew it was just a matter of time before the kid took over at quarterback.

Quinn didn’t start the next game but was inserted again to spark a struggling offense against Michigan State. This time Quinn had a better day, 7-of-17 with his first career touchdown and zero interceptions.

The following week was a hectic one for both Holiday and Quinn and the media. Who would start the next game on the road against Purdue?

“There’s going to have to be a little bit of significant separation between the two. If it’s close you’re probably going to lean towards your starter, the guy who’s experienced, at least in the beginning,” said Diedrick leading up to the game.

In the end Quinn was that much better and got the nod and never looked back.

What we didn’t know at the time, and Irish fans and Quinn himself quickly found out, was how tough Brady Quinn was/is, both mentally and physically.

I look at the stat sheet from the Purdue game and I’m floored to see Purdue’s defense credited with only one sack of Quinn in that game. He might’ve been sacked only once, but he had to have been flattened at least 15 times, and I’m sure Quinn and many Irish fans can remember every one of them.

Funnily, the stat sheet shows only 13 sacks on Quinn all season, but I’d have to guess he took at least 113 vicious hits during that inaugural season. If nothing else, Irish fans knew that Brady Quinn was one of the toughest quarterbacks they have ever seen.

Quinn’s freshman season was a forgettable one. The next great Irish quarterback finished the season as a 47 percent passer, throwing for nine touchdowns, but also throwing 15 interceptions. More importantly, he was 4-5 as a starter.

But he showed signs of potential like his first start against Purdue, and his best game, Boston College, where he completed a shade under 60 percent, threw for 350 yards and two touchdowns. His two interceptions proved costly, however, as both ended potential scoring threats.

However, Quinn did lead the Irish back from a 24-6 second-half deficit and almost completed the comeback before running out time at the BC 32-yard line—one of many coaching blunders seen throughout 2003.

The Heisman hopeful improved during his sophomore season, throwing for over 2,500 yards and 17 touchdowns while throwing only 10 interceptions on the season. His completion percentage was just an average 54 percent, and again, more importantly, he was just 6-6 as a starter.

But just like his freshman season, Quinn showed promise, like his Washington performance where he was 17-of-32 for 255 yards and four touchdowns, and his Pitt performance where he threw for 260 yards, completed 58 percent of his passes and threw another three touchdowns.

Quinn finished his sophomore season as a two-year starter with a career 10-11 record and much frustration. Quinn showed so much promise but was a man without direction or solid leadership. Irish fans were frustrated. Obviously Notre Dame was frustrated as a change was made, and one could tell Quinn was frustrated, although he never threw his coaches under the bus…..something those same coaches seemed to do to him and his teammates weekly.

Enter Charlie Weis…

The anticipation of Quinn running a Weis offense was music to Irish fan’s ears. But like anyone else, I had questions about Quinn. Can he limit his mistakes? Can he become a truly effective passer? Can he carry this team? More importantly, can he win the big games? Does he have that something special?

Suddenly, under Weis, the “happy feet” and “deer in the headlights” look Quinn had been known for vanished.

Quinn won the opener and looked outstanding doing it. Quinn won a big game at Michigan. Quinn brought his team back against Michigan State. Quinn made the world forget about Kyle Orton at Purdue, and Quinn almost did the unthinkable against USC….he did his part but the defense just couldn’t hold up.

Quinn broke what seems like every passing record in Notre Dame history during his junior year while completing 65 percent of his passes for 3,919 yards, 32 touchdowns and throwing just seven interceptions on the year. More importantly, he led the Irish to a BCS game and nine wins.

Nobody has probably benefited more from the hiring of Charlie Weis than Brady Quinn. But to credit Weis for all of his success would be a huge disrespect to the talent, work ethic and resolve Quinn has shown over the years.

What is left for Brady Quinn? As Quinn has said many times, quarterbacks are judged by wins and championships.

People ask me all the time; “do you think Brady Quinn will win the Heisman?” My first reaction is no. It’s not that I don’t think he’ll be deserving, but I just don’t see the schedule lining up for him or the Irish to win it all this year. Quinn can’t do it alone, and I’m not sure Notre Dame’s defense is up to a championship level yet.

But I think a lot of people have been doubting Quinn since he arrived on campus. I doubted he’d start as a freshman. I certainly never imagined he’d have so much success this past season, so maybe a championship and the Heisman isn’t out of the realm of possibility.

Regardless, it seems almost surreal to think we are watching what many will consider to be the best quarterback to ever play at Notre Dame—at least statistically. But as even Quinn admits, quarterbacks are judged by wins and championships.

When the dust settles on 2006 Irish fans will probably not understand the impact Brady Quinn truly has had on the Irish program. When Quinn is likely picked in the top 5 in the NFL draft next season people will say; “he sure owes Charlie Weis a lot for his success.”

But Charlie Weis and Irish fans owe Quinn a lot of thanks as well. Does anyone think Jimmy Clausen would be enrolling in Notre Dame this next January had Quinn had an average junior season? Would Duval Kamara be committed now had “the Shark” and Mo Stovall not emerged? What about Mike Ragone? Weis will certainly get a lot of mileage out of Brady Quinn in the end.

No matter what happens in 2006 Brady Quinn has left a huge imprint on the Notre Dame football program. His name will likely decorate the Notre Dame record books for years to come. He’ll be remembered fondly by all Irish fans for restoring respectability to the Irish football program. But will he be remembered as the greatest ever? 2006 and a championship will likely be the deciding factor.

No matter what the end result is, Quinn has led this Irish team the past three seasons with a work ethic unmatched by many, a leadership seen in few, and with character and maturity not seen often in a player of his age.

He’s about as perfect as anyone could be (it’s almost sickening), but can he be perfect in the win column? It's the only thing left that Quinn has yet to accomplish at Notre Dame.

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Let me try it this way. I just think it is safer and in the best interest of the Cleveland Browns to keep both QBs until one of them wins the job or one of them plays so terrible that he loses it.

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of course this is the best senerio...but where do you draw the line?

when you look at the really good teams they stick to there plan, and they only pay players what they think they are worth....you want more? you wanna hold out....fine....see ya....

now i'll admit that happens mostly with older fa's there has to be and point when we say no....

now in this case i think we can afford to give da alittle more cash than normal, because his playing one more year saves us money by quinn not meeting incentives...in other words we are giving money to the proven guy.....

now while some could argue that da has proven to be just average, it doesn't matter in my book...he was essentially a rook....he could improve....same goes for quinn....

but at the end of the day cleveland is now a good place for a qb to play....good oline...good running game....good recievers, a probowl te....all the pieces are here....

put anderson or quinn for that matter here in 99 and both will look like crap....

i think savage will stick to the 3 year plan...and maybe up the guaranteed money at the end....he's gonna get it or quinns gonna get it so what does it really matter....

now as far as the trade goes, sure it was ballsy..but savage had to know this years qb class was weak....he bet on his team doing well enough to put the only good projected qb (ryan) out of reach....if we're drafting 6th we don't get him....just like we missed out on some good tackles over the years.....close....but not close enough....now we would be forced to trade down,or over reach on a qb....or just not pick one all together....

that would put us in the fa qb market...and nobody wants that....

savage wasen't banking on the team sucking enough to get a good qb...so he took one when the opportunity arose last year...

on top of that, who would have thought frye, or anderson would have done what they did?

all the talk last year was we need a fa qb with some experience....

we could have just as easily seen quinn as the starter last year after the bye week....it didn't happen, but everyone thought it likely....nobody thought anderson was gonna do what he did...

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now as far as the trade goes, sure it was ballsy..but savage had to know this years qb class was weak....he bet on his team doing well enough to put the only good projected qb (ryan) out of reach....if we're drafting 6th we don't get him....just like we missed out on some good tackles over the years.....close....but not close enough....now we would be forced to trade down,or over reach on a qb....or just not pick one all together....

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Race...Regardless of what anyone questioning that trade-up says...I wouldn't go as far as Kiper saying it was a stroke of genius...BUT...

I WOULD say it was an excellent forward looking decision...And u can bet your ass it had ALOT to do with knowing what was 08 FA QB available...AND 08 Draft Class available...

Maybe Kiper's RIGHT...hehehe...

and to look at it from an entirely different angle.....suppose we lost the coin flip for the 3rd pick.....tampa takes thomas....

quinn is the pick...peterson is a possiblity...but at the time this years rb class was projected to be real good...and we already had jamal..

all i know is that things are looking up in ctown...

savage wasen't planing on being in the top 10...the other side of it was obviously we had him rated int the top 10 last year....when he fell, its now a value pick at 22....coupled with the fact of what i said in my other post, makes it a no brainer...

sitting in the 20's this year looking at a qb we can't get would suck amost as much as all those lt's that got away...

savage has faith in this team, it's coaches, and his staff....and it shows....

If Vers said he saw it ... I don't doubt it for a second ... I'm sure he did see it ... even Mike Frank says it in the article ......

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He’s about as perfect as anyone could be (it’s almost sickening),

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and hes a guy that runs a sight called Irish Eyes and makes his living covering ND sports ... *LOL* ... BQ has a HUGE TARGET ON HIS BACK ..

I dotn want to re-hash all this ... cause its a waste of time and were going to find out on the filed over the next decade ... but there was so much crap spewn around about BQ it made me sick ....

1. BQ had accuracy problems?? *LOL* .. when i first read this i couldnt belive someone could write or say that ... this kid is EXTREMELY ACCURATE on all throws ... that was a joke ...

2. couldn't win the big games .. HOG WASH .. for starters he did win big games ... and then he drove us down the field and put us ahead of USC with 1:02 left on the clock ... NOT HIS FAULT we lost ...

then his Sr. year he went into gun fights with a BUTTER KNIFE in all his big games .... agaisnt USC and LSU his sr. years I went play by play and broke it down ... he THREW PASSES into his recievers hands and they dropped them at a REMARKABLY HIGH rate ... I am not BSing U when I say that BQ had more passes dropped on those two games than DA did in any 10 of his added together this year .. and they were ALL HUGE PASSES ...

BQ will be a A MUCH BETTER NFL QB than he was college QB because he will be playing on a MUCH LEVELER playing field ..

and there's more that Mike frank left out that is ABSOLUTELY REMARKABLE ... I have to run .. but will get to it later today or tommorow .. and its all RE-HASH .... but I will say thjis one thing one more time ..

not that it really matters .... CAUSE WE WILL ALL SEE OVER THE NEXT DECADE ... and like I said then ... WERE ALL GOING TO LOVE HIM ....

YOU'LL SEE .....

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Another point I read all kinds of crapola on here. The plan was never for BQ to start, thus the Browns felt no great need to get BQ signed.

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If he would have signed on time he would have competed and possibly won the starting job in camp, so I have no idea what you're trying to say here.....

Good for Danielle, when did she take over as the coach or the GM?