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Here's just a general question for the salary cap gurus:
Quinn signed for $20 million with 7.75 guaranteed. Anderson potentially will sign for $20 million with 10 guaranteed. What counts against the cap, the guaranteed or the whole amounts?
Neither .... and both.
The cap cost of a player is their salary for that year, plus any unallocated bonuses pro-rated for the term of their contract, plus any bonuses for that particular year that are considered "likely to be earned" and count against that year's cap only. If a player is released or traded during his contract which had a signing bonus, the unallocated portion of that bonus is "accelerated" to count against that year's cap .... unless he is traded or released after June 1st .... in which case the cap impact can be split of this year and next.
Makes sense to me .... but probably not to everyone.
Basically .... if a player signs a 5 year, $11 million deal, which contains a $5 million signing bonus, and a $1 million roster bonus payable in year 3 of the deal, and for simplicity's sake, he has annual salaries of $1 million .. the breakdown would be as follows:
Year 1: $1 million salary, plus 1/5 of his signing bonus. $2 million cap cost.
Year 2: $1 million salary, plus 1/5 of his signing bonus. $2 million cap cost.
Year 3: $1 million salary, plus 1/5 of his signing bonus, plus the entire $1 million roster bonus (because it is considered to be "likely to be earned"). $3 million cap cost.
Year 4: $1 million salary, plus 1/5 of his signing bonus. $2 million cap cost.
Year 5: $1 million salary, plus 1/5 of his signing bonus. $2 million cap cost.
Now ..... if this player is traded or released prior to year 3, the team is off the hook for the roster bonus, but would be responsible for the unallocated 3/5 of his signing bonus ... or $3 million. If he is released after June 1st, then the team can split this cap cost between the current year and the following year. The roster bonus in this case isn't a really good example, because if he is on the roster at a particular time, he gets it, and I'm not really sure of the date. Anyway, the roster bonus is one considered "likely to be earned", and would count entirely against the current year's cap.
Hope your head doesn't hurt now. If not, I'm sure someone like Shep can break out each and every example and possibility if he has a few days to do so.  I know he did so on the old board a couple of time, and in far greater detail than I could.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Is it possible, yes. What are the realistic chances of it actually happening, less than .01%. Like someone said above, Phil would lose all credibility as a GM if he traded a guy a week after signing him to an extension. And why would the other team want to let the Browns hammer out the details to their contract (knowing they were trading for the guy). A sign and trade doesn't make a bit of sense...which makes it very, very, very, very, very unlikely (but still "possible").
This reminds me of a discussion I had with my fantasy football commish this past year. Two teams were fighting for the last playoff spot. Team A had a one game lead and a 312 point lead in the tiebreaker. The previous record for one weeks high score is 135. So Team A would need to lose and Team B would have to win AND outscore Team A by 312.5 points to get the last spot. I told him to just announce Team A as the last playoff team. He argued that it's not official. I said that may be the case, but there's NO WAY Team B outscores Team A by 312.5 points when the previous 7-year record was 135. He wouldn't budge. He kept saying it's possible. We both knew the outcome but couldn't agree on calling it 2 days before the last week was played.
Maybe it's the same, maybe it's not the same situation. However, I'd be willing to bet my house that DA isn't part of a sign and trade.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Phil would lose all credibility as a GM if he traded a guy a week after signing him to an extension.
Bingo.....thats says it all right there, Phil would loose so much leverage in nagotiating up coming deals it wouldnt be worth it for this one.
Phil said he wants DA to be our starting QB in 2008 or atleast be on the team fighting for a starting spot. Over the past three years I've learned & seen time after time if Phil says it, it will happen. 99.9% of the time, & I dont believe this is that one .01 % time.
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NRTU.
Sheesh. People's opinions sway back and forth to the extremes more than I'd ever imagined.
Suddenly, now that we're nearing the deadline for free agency, people are getting this FALSE impression that it's a line in the sand, and that if Anderson doesn't sign by then, he won't sign at all.
In terms of perception, why oh WHY are we making this SO much harder than it really is?!?!? 
Anderson's agent would be an absolute IDIOT if he went ahead and signed that contract right now. AN IDIOT! Why sign a deal one day before he can see if any other team out there is willing to give him the HUGE money that is potentially out there?!?! Is it really so far out of the realm of possibility to believe that common sense is worth thinking about? Has ANYONE seen one word from Savage saying that if Anderson doesn't sign the deal, that it's off the table? No, we haven't. If Anderson see's that there isn't an offer out there, he can sign the nice deal in front of him, no harm no foul. If there is a deal, we get a 1st and a 3rd to fix a defense that has been shoddy for a decade.
And another thing......Why is it so hard to believe that Savage really DOES want both guys on this team so that he can wait a year or two to determine which guy is the right one? Making the best decision at QB is FAR FAR more important than choosing a QB now, and it's FAR FAR more important than getting a draft pick in return for Anderson's services.
I can't believe we're making so much more out of this than what really exists.....
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Is it possible, yes. What are the realistic chances of it actually happening, less than .01%. Like someone said above, Phil would lose all credibility as a GM if he traded a guy a week after signing him to an extension.
I don't know exactly where you got that percentage,,but I can live with it since I don't think it would happen either..
As for Phil losing cred,,, I have serious doubts that Phil would strike a deal with Anderson, then turn around and trade him without discussion with Anderson and his agent. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that would do that. but if he did, yeah, he'd have no cred left with any player.
As for it not making sense to sign and trade,, It only makes sense if those that are involved say so. There would have to be a reason for it to happen..
Again, let me be clear here, I don't for one second think this will happen..
My only point was, THAT IT COULD!
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Has ANYONE seen one word from Savage saying that if Anderson doesn't sign the deal, that it's off the table?
If DA doesn't sign this deal by 11:59 tomorrow night, then yes, it's off the table. Savage has said repeatedly that he plans to slap the high tender on DA if an agreement cannot be reached, which would nullify the 3-year $20 million offer that currently exists. So by not signing the current offer, DA's agent runs the risk of costing his player $10 million in guaranteed money. THAT is idiotic.
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Ok, wait.
Has Savage gone on record as saying that it's off the table, because what you just said has nothing to do with the offer.
If Savage DOESN'T slap the tender on Anderson before the deadline, he becomes an UNRESTRICTED free agent, and we get nothing in return. That does NOT preclude us from keeping the offer on the table once Anderson is hit with the Tender.
So, unless we have a direct quote from Savage that says the offer will be removed once we hit Anderson with the Tender...............
Maybe others are reading it like you are, in which case that would explain the perceived paranoia. Read this:
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Savage optimistic Browns can sign QB Anderson to deal before free agency
NFL :: FanNation.com via AP :: Friday February 22
``We've made some progress,'' Savage said. ``There's nothing to report today, but we've got a week left until free agency begins. I know people are considering that to be a hard deadline, but in a lot of ways, it's almost a perforated deadline.''
``We can still put the tender on him and continue to talk if that's something they wanted to do,'' he said. ``Our preference is to get it done before the free-agency period begins, but at this point I'm not sure that's going to happen one way or the other.''
Link
So, since that article was dated just a few days ago, and Savage clearly says that while they want to sign him now, they can continue to negotiate while Anderson is under the tender, do you now understand that popping Anderson with the tender does NOT mean the offer is off the table?
Feel better? 
It's possible that Savage has changed his tune in the past few days, but I find that to be an idiotic decision, and one that Savage isn't dumb enough to make.
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Like I stated here on the board some time ago, I think DA signs a 3 year deal worth about 18 mil. About 9 mil guaranteed. He earned a contract of this NFL market value. IMO
He'd be foolish not too... IMO. If he has an offer close to this he should sign it. There are no guarantees unless you have them in writing...
Why take a 2.5 mil tender if you are DA? Give up a huge income bump and significant guaranteed money to test the market next year? Any player’s career can be over on the very next play. Schab or Romo $$$ is a consideration, but those teams don't have another solid, viable QB prospect on their rosters...
If DA wants to be that guy in Cleveland he'll sign and let his play in the future dictate his future contract/s.
Do the Fins, Vikes, Bears or any other teams in need, offer the same or better situations for DA? I don't think so... Those 3 teams have offensive and or defensive deficiencies that are questionable.
What ever happens it's a good situation for our Browns to be in. The Browns have most of the leverage... And another potentially very viable QB option on the roster signed long term.
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I totally agree Daman. As far as anything happening, Phil could call in the next ten minutes and offer DA's contract to me. Of course, I wouldn't sign it, I could make so much more on the FA market. All those years playing Madden has really improved my ability to manage an NFL offense. I eat Cover 2 defenses for breakfast!  For all the time I spend on random NFL message board, I've seen one common trend, most non-Browns fans have little interest in DA. They saw his horrible end to the season and poor accuracy thoughout too. I can't speak for the other GM's of the NFL but I'd be willing to bet they saw the very same things. I just don't see any NFL GM offering DA a contract knowing it will cost them some high day one picks. He's ours in 2008, as much as it pains me to admit (and I'm not a Quinn-guy......just a non-DA guy).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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So we would high tender DA for a one-year 2.5 million contract, he tests the market, finds no takers, and then we up it to a 3 year $20 million contract once he realizes no one in their right mind will pony up the picks for him? Why would we do that? We get him for 2008 either way. Now, if he plays like Tony Romo in the first 8 games of the season, I could see resigning him to a longer deal at that point, but why would we leave the offer on the table after we tender him for 2008? It just doesn't make much sense from a FO standpoint. JMHO.
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While I totally agree with you, it only takes one desperate team to make a desperate decision and we end up with a 1st and a 3rd.
Simply put, if I were Anderson, I wouldn't sign the contract even if my agent urged me to. I'd wait a week into free agency to see if any team is willing to give me the HUGE dollars. I know that Savage won't yank the offer. He's said as much. So waiting a week doesn't hurt me whatsoever.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You crack me up Punch,, thanks for giving me a chuckle today,, I needed it.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So we would high tender DA for a one-year 2.5 million contract, he tests the market, finds no takers, and then we up it to a 3 year $20 million contract once he realizes no one in their right mind will pony up the picks for him? Why would we do that? We get him for 2008 either way.
 
Don't put the cart before the horse.........
Remember the ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT thing that we're doing here. We're trying to find the RIGHT QB to lead this team into the future. By locking Anderson into a 3-year deal at $10 mil guaranteed, if Anderson turns out to be the guy, he's here for at least two more years at decent but not ball-busting money. If we don't sign him and let him ride the tender, the only leverage we have left next year is the franchise tag, and I don't see a situation where we want to pay Anderson $12 million for one season.
The secondary benefit is that if we choose Quinn next year, Anderson is under a very reasonable contract and we can trade him for a player or draft compensation. We can't do that if he's a free agent or under the franchise tag.
Consider what you said. If we have him in 2008 regardless, why even offer him a 3-year contract in the first place? The answer is because we want him here to get the first crack at the job, and more importantly, there's a benefit to the team.
The cart doesn't go before the horse.....
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Okay Toad, no need to to beat your head against the wall. I just wanted to hear a logical explanation for why Phil would leave that offer on the table after DA is locked up for 2008. And you provided one. I concede. But what if DA takes his 3-year deal (reluctantly) and then lights it up this year? You don't think he and his agent will want to renegotiate that non-ball-busting deal? At which point, we have a proven QB who is disgruntled with his current deal and an unknown QB who is disgruntled because his chances of being 'the guy' are diminishing with every snap. I guess I'll now revert back to my fear that DA will play well-enough to keep Quinn off the field, but not well-enough to garner much in the way of a trade. So we're stuck where we are right now but it's a year later and we still don't know who the guy is. 
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You crack me up Punch,, thanks for giving me a chuckle today,, I needed it..
"I make you chuckle how? I'm funny like a clown? Do I amuse you?" .....your comment reminded me of Goodfellas for some reason.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Kardiac,, considering what we had before DA and BQ, aren't we better off now no matter which way it turns out or who ends up starting?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dude, we're Browns fans, things could get far worse than last year.
Go Irish!
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I don't know Daman. I guess I'm just not satisfied with mediocrity anymore. Yes, I'll take 10-6 over 4-12 any day of the week. But 14-2 and a SB ring sounds a whole lot better. So until we get there, I won't ever be satisfied.
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What......maybe I like to beat my head against walls I do it at work everyday, hehehe.
Quote:
But what if DA takes his 3-year deal (reluctantly) and then lights it up this year? You don't think he and his agent will want to renegotiate that non-ball-busting deal? At which point, we have a proven QB who is disgruntled with his current deal and an unknown QB who is disgruntled because his chances of being 'the guy' are diminishing with every snap.
In an earlier post in this thread or another, I laid out a scenario which you just alluded to. Absolutely, yes, Anderson's agent may want to renegotiate the deal if Anderson lights it up. Let's run with that........
Hypothetical fact: Anderson lit up the 2008 season.
If all we've done in '07 is tender him, he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of '08, as his tenure in the league means we can't tender him. Our only option is to give him a huge deal or franchise tag him at $12 million (or so) per year.
Now, let's say we've signed him to a 3-year deal. We have his rights, and while his agent can demand a new deal, he's under contract, and we can either force his hand, or trade him. We own his rights. Hell, if he's lit up the league, he's WORTH a new big deal, so the ultimate problem is solved, and we can trade Quinn.
That's why signing him to a 3-year deal makes sense, and why Anderson's agent would rather wait a few days to see if he can get a big deal now.
Starting to really make sense now? 
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I guess I'll now revert back to my fear that DA will play well-enough to keep Quinn off the field, but not well-enough to garner much in the way of a trade. So we're stuck where we are right now but it's a year later and we still don't know who the guy is.
Again, don't put the cart before the horse. You're worrying about the 2009 season when we haven't played 2008 yet. If we sign Anderson to a 3-year deal and he doesn't play great, but well enough to keep Quinn on the sideline, we still have the ability to trade either guy for a pick or a player. Granted, by then we'll have to make a trade, but at least we'll have the ability to receive compensation for the player we decide to trade. We don't have that if we just tender Anderson
If Anderson plays ok, yet Quinn still can't beat him out, that probably speaks not-so-well of Quinn, in which case Anderson is still the starter, yet he isn't playing well enough to demand a newer, bigger contract. The end result? We've still made the right call in determining who's the best QB, even if the scenario isn't playing itself out in the exact way we want.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I know that Savage won't yank the offer.
I don't think so either....that isn't the way you conduct business if you want to have any long term success.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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As usual Toad, everything you say makes perfect sense. I get it. I guess I am thinking a little ahead on this but I just don't want to be sitting here next year wondering who our "QB of the future" is going to be. And I feel that I have legitimate concerns about that when it comes to DA. It will put us in a better position to sign him to an extension now but no one on this team is getting any younger and I would like us to maximize our playoff potential while we still can. I don't want us to be a one and done team.
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There are legit concerns about Anderson. I have them myself. The fact that he's being offered a decent contract, not a big one, tells us all that the FO has the same concerns.
Now if, come next year, neither guy has staked his claim, well, we're in trouble regardless of a 3-year contract offer to Anderson or otherwise, hehe. They'll have to make a firm decision then, and my feeling is that it would be Quinn. If Anderson doesn't distinguish himself by his 4th year in the league and 2nd as the full-time starter, Quinn will most likely get his shot, and I've the feeling that's what you want to hear
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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LOL! Am I that transparent? Okay, you got me. I'm not sold on DA but I realize Quinn hasn't done a thing to give me unrealistic expectations either. But I DO want him to get the chance! There's the rub. A lot of people get called names like DA-bashers and Brady Brats for that, but I just wanna see what the kid can do. And then I'll know. I hate not knowing. So call me torn, at this point. I just want to win, win, win!!!
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I think Kardiac is like me, the minute one of these agents can put us over a barrel. They are going to.
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Well, in fairness to agents  , it is their job to maximize the earning potential for their clients. Their careers depend on every deal they make. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see DA back at the table if he wins the first 6 of 8 next season.
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If we don't sign him and let him ride the tender, the only leverage we have left next year is the franchise tag, and I don't see a situation where we want to pay Anderson $12 million for one season.
OHHHHH I Love the Posturing...
If we Tender this Kid...In 2009 we WILL TAG him IF and ONLY IF we are so enamoured with him that we believe and COMMIT to his being the future of this team...And the TAG is only there so we bide our time to sign long-term...
At which time u can KISS QUINN BYE-BYE...And u can mark that one down as FACT...Condon will get Quinn outta Cleveland so fast our heads spin...That is IF we have committed to Anderson...Beyond 2008 THERE IS NO WAY DA & QUINN CAN COINCIDE...NONE...
By 4pm tomorrow this will tell us alot...
They DON'T sign and that tells us there IS INTEREST...We then TENDER...
They DO SIGN and that tells us there was NO INTEREST...Take the bucks...
If DA plays here in 2008 under a 1 year tender...The 2009 season is wide open...At that point IF he plays solidly...The FRANCHISE TAG becomes a serious option...And we will sign him to a multi-year MEGA CONTRACT...Quinn goes bye-bye...
If DA signs the 3 year deal...We sit tight and see what he does in 2008...If he stinks it up we just blew our wad...His trade value is NOTHING...And we have a decision to make...Pay him the contract as a #2 or trade him and suck up what we DON'T GET...
Even tho the Franchise Tag was available THIS YEAR...It was NEVER AN OPTION at 12M...
Go Browns!!!
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I'd imagine that teams are finalizing their reports on the QB's at the combine. If I were them, I'd wait to see what Anderson does with the Browns, then go from there.
We all know they talk well before free agency begins. They may have talked to David Dunn, but will wait to see what Anderson does. If he's tendered, they may have a trade offer lined up. If he's signed, they may make a different decision. Of course this is beyond sheer speculation, and delves into the realm of "possible" not "probable." I think there are enough unknowns here that would make the agents wait until Anderson is Tendered before making a decision. To do anything before that point is simply wasting opportunities to me. As noted, we've seen nothing from Savage that says the offer gets yanked at midnight on Thursday, so to wait is really the only prudent thing to do on Dunn's part.
Another reason to wait is to see what happens with other fringe guys like Quinn Gray and even Huard or Todd Collins. That isn't to say the last two are viable prospects, but what happens to them may play a role in how a team views Anderson.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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They DON'T sign and that tells us there IS INTEREST...We then TENDER...
They DO SIGN and that tells us there was NO INTEREST...Take the bucks...
Whether or not DA signs the deal doesn't necessarily tell us anything about the perceived interest (or lack thereof) in his services on the open market. A lot of teams are probably going to wait and see what happens with us before they tip their hand toward DA's agent. So it's really up to DA and his agent to get as many feelers out there as possible and do the best they can with the limited information that they have while the clock tick-ticks away.
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I don't know Daman. I guess I'm just not satisfied with mediocrity anymore. Yes, I'll take 10-6 over 4-12 any day of the week. But 14-2 and a SB ring sounds a whole lot better. So until we get there, I won't ever be satisfied.
I understand... but maybe it helps to think of it as steps in a journey..
Step one: We suck
Step two: We suck a little less
Step three: We suck worse
Step four: We don't suck as much
Step five: Holy smokes, we are decent ( this is where we are now I think)
Hopeful future steps
Step six: Can you believe we beat Pittsburgh twice in one year
Step seven: Holy cow, we just killed the Pats in the AFC Championship we are headed to the Big Show..
Tell me, would you accept it that way? I sure as hell would.. That means 2 more years to the Bowl.. I can live with that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Dude, we're Browns fans, things could get far worse than last year.
Dude,, you are right
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Step six: Can you believe we beat Pittsburgh twice in one year
Step seven: Holy cow, we just killed the Pats in the AFC Championship we are headed to the Big Show..
Tell me, would you accept it that way?
No. Here's my version...
Step Six: Can you believe we beat Pittsburgh 3 times in the same year? Twice in the reg. season and once in the wild-card round. And can you believe we took the Colts in the Divisional Round? And the Pats in the AFC Championship? Oh, not to mention, the big one... A 44-10 dismantling of the Cowboys in Super Bowl XLIII. Now, that was one hell of a season!!
Steps 7-10: Repeat.
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Dawg Talker
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They DON'T sign and that tells us there IS INTEREST...We then TENDER...
They DO SIGN and that tells us there was NO INTEREST...Take the bucks...
Whether or not DA signs the deal doesn't necessarily tell us anything about the perceived interest (or lack thereof) in his services on the open market. A lot of teams are probably going to wait and see what happens with us before they tip their hand toward DA's agent. So it's really up to DA and his agent to get as many feelers out there as possible and do the best they can with the limited information that they have while the clock tick-ticks away.
i kind of agree with that reasoning- if they do not sign then there is some interest on the open market. The teams talk, there have been articles on this posted elsewhere. By now, DA and his agent have a pretty good idea as to what is going on with freeagency- whether or not a team is really interested in his services and if someone will try to work out a trade. If they sign the deal, i would have to believe that freeagency dried up and there were no takers. The other option he has is to just take the 2.6 million tender and play a year. Seems kind of silly to me to do that, especially when there is reportable a 20 million dollar deal with 10 guaranteed on the table. Hey, even if he lost out to Quinn- he could try and force a trade before the three year deal expires.
If alot of teams are interested in DA- they have to make their move prior to FA. They need to convey their thoughts to DA and his agent. IF he signs the 3 year deal, he is off the market. I don't believe for one second that the browns would trade him after signing him to a three year deal.
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All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750 |
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As noted, we've seen nothing from Savage that says the offer gets yanked at midnight on Thursday
Savage implied there is more money available for Anderson now than there will be next weekend, when free agents start to visit.
''We have some improvements to make to our team, depending on what players are available,'' he said. ''Obviously, the budget can change.''
http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/browns/
Go Irish!
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j/c: I'll try to address a few things here. Some good stuff was typed. ---Daman: Thanks for kinda defending me from that big, mean, Bad2theBone dog. But dude, I was not insulting you. I quoted you. I thought you insulted Diam. And I was giving you a chance to explain your line of reasoning as to why the trade might happen. I wasn't mocking you. I wanted to hear your argument. Your explanation left a little to be desired. "It could happen, even though it probably won't." *L* Come on, man...........just fess up. You were wrong. It's not all that bad to admit. ---Speaking of admitting things..............Kardiac-----I give you credit for admitting a couple of things on here. That takes guts. I don't agree w/you, but I respect that you manned up. And believe me, bro...........there are a ton of guys on this board who feel the exact way you do, but just won't admit it. They want to see what BQ can do. There is no real shame in that. The shame comes from people making things up about DA to further their cause. You haven't done that either. I respect you more now than ever, even though I completely disagree w/your opinion. I think it is better to let this play out. I think the job should be won on the field and during practice and in meetings. I have never subscribed to handing a job to anyone........and I don't care who he is. But, I understand your position and I won't get on you for it. ---Diam: You could very well be right w/your scenario. You know more than I do about how those things work. I can admit that and I don't even feel dumb or embarrassed. ---YTown: Thanks for all that information. You are good at that stuff. You had my head spinning and I am not sure if I understand it all, but thanks man........I appreciate it when people who know more than me about a subject try to educate me. ---To the board: Speaking of being educated..........perhaps some people should not try and act like they know things when they really have no clue. It makes you look......hmmmm..........not very credible. That's the nicest way I can say it. Just try to learn and interject your opinions, but don't act like you know what you are saying is the end all. ----Toad: That's some good stuff, man. You are a good writer and skilled at debate. And I really like it when you keep it above board, which you have done since I came back here. You made me think a lot w/your posts and that is good, because it has been proven that understanding comes through reflection. Nice job, man. There was one thing I might challenge you on: I think this entire contract scenario w/DA is pretty much the way Phil described it. He views DA as a QB w/a ton of upside, but one that still has holes in his game. He also thinks that DA has a chance of overcoming those problems and can become a damn good QB. However, he isn't sure and he doesn't want to sign DA to too long of a contract because he doesn't want to send a message to BQ that he has committed to DA. In other words, the length of the contract has more to do w/BQ than DA. I told Diam and Shep that I was hoping for a 3 year deal for DA.......and yes, that was before that number came out. It's perfect. It gives DA time to prove himself and make him feel wanted, but it also doesn't shut the door in BQ's face. He's prolonging the decision, just as he said he would. I like the way he is handling it. A lot!
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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There was one thing I might challenge you on:
I think this entire contract scenario w/DA is pretty much the way Phil described it. He views DA as a QB w/a ton of upside, but one that still has holes in his game. He also thinks that DA has a chance of overcoming those problems and can become a damn good QB. However, he isn't sure and he doesn't want to sign DA to too long of a contract because he doesn't want to send a message to BQ that he has committed to DA. In other words, the length of the contract has more to do w/BQ than DA.
Hmmmm.........Vers, I'm a little S-L-O-W. I think I need you to tell me exactly which position of mine you're interested in questioning (and no, I'm not taking that in a bad way, hehe).
If I've given the impression that Savage is dedicating himself to Anderson over Quinn, that's not the one I want to give. I've probably beaten it into the ground on various threads, but I'll again say that the very length of the deal clearly spells out how Savage feels about Anderson, and it's exactly as you say. Anderson has upside, but he has holes. If he was a bum, he'd be tendered at a lower level (if at all). If he was a stud, he'd be given a 6-year deal, and Quinn would be shopped for a #1 pick, so his feelings would be meaningless. We're in complete agreement there.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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As noted, we've seen nothing from Savage that says the offer gets yanked at midnight on Thursday
Savage implied there is more money available for Anderson now than there will be next weekend, when free agents start to visit.
''We have some improvements to make to our team, depending on what players are available,'' he said. ''Obviously, the budget can change.''
http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/browns/
Yeah, but those comments were made before the Browns reportedly upped their offer
If Savage honestly intended on stiff-arming Dunn (I've stopped typing out "Anderson's agent" because it's just too damned long!) he'd have come right out in public and said "This contract offer expires at 11pm on the 28th." I've yet to see such a stance, which is a far-cry from hinting that there may be more money now than there will be later, hehe. It's a nice ploy, but Dunn knows we aren't going to spend every dime on the cap during the first volley of free agency. If Savage had that intent, we'd see it plastered all over the net by now.
Truth be told, Savages's position is actually stronger if he leaves the offer on the table than if he threatens to yank it. Considering that Anderson's star is fading since the regular season has ended, there's no reason to stiff-arm Dunn. Doing so would raise Anderson's and Dunn's hackles, and may make them go the route of just playing for the tender and forcing the Browns hand next year, a move that nobody really wants because of the risks to both sides. Animosity doesn't do either side any good at this point. As noted, it hurts nothing to let them explore restricted agency, then come back to the deal if they see that there's only luke-warm interest out there. The key is Quinn. Since he's here, it's not like we don't have any options if Anderson leaves. Afterall, the intended scenario is still to have Quinn in the mix, as expressed in the short-term deal offered to Anderson.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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LOL...........I was wondering if I confused you after I posted it. I rarely edit and I didn't this time.
No, I didn't get the impression you were saying Savage was dedicating himself to DA. Actually, I thought you might have been undervaluing DA somewhat. I think it was in your response to Kardiac.
Let me explain. I don't think the 3-year deal is disrespectful to DA. Savage made a huge investment in BQ and he can't give Quinn the impression that he has turned the team over to DA.
I think Savage likes DA's game and potential. Just like I do. And Toad, I see a ton of potential in DA. He has some tools that most QBs only dream of. And he played in an awful system at Oregon State that told him not to worry about picks, and to just keep chuckin' it. Toad, they are having to reprogram Anderson.
However, they can't be sure that he will overcome his flaws and they sure as hell don't want to alienate BQ at this point in time. It's a tricky situation for Savage and the Browns. They are tying to keep both guys content, if not happy.
If I am still not making sense......let me put it this way. If BQ was not here, I bet that Savage would have offered DA a much longer contract.
As always, it comes down to this for me................neither guy has proven he is the guy and neither guy has proven he isn't the guy. It makes sense to try to keep them both as satisfied w/the situation as possible and to allow them both the chance to win the job on the field rather than having it handed it to them.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
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Again, let me be clear here, I don't for one second think this will happen..
My only point was, THAT IT COULD!
and pigs could fly out my ass ...
and let me make sure I'm clear ..... I don't think for one second this will happen ....
My only point was THAT IT COULD ....
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I'd no idea they told Anderson to not worry about int's at OSU. That's a new one to me.
I can also see how you may have gotten the impression that I'm only cool on Anderson based on one of the posts to Cardiac. You'd be right Despite my skeptics eye, I recognize that at some point, a 1st year starting QB is most likely going to hit a wall as the season wears on. Because of that, I can't label Anderson as a "part-season wonder." I'm not at all sold on Anderson, but I'd be an idiot to close my eyes to what he did when taking all the factors into account. If I really felt that way, I'd be carrying the flag to trade him to the highest bidder while his value was at the highest, hehe.
As far as Quinn goes, yeah, the 3-year deal rewards Anderson while simultaneously keeping both guys hungry and in the hunt for the position. Like you, I was looking for a 3-year deal because of how it reached a balance between the organization, Anderson, and Quinn. On a side note, I would expect one more bump from the Browns at some point, but nothing substantial. I'd then expect that Dunn would take just a little bit of time......maybe a week or two........after the free agent period started before signing the deal. My belief behind that revolves around the interest in true unrestricted free agent QB's like Collins and Volek, as teams may look at them as stop-gap starters. If they are gobbled-up, that'd bring Anderson back into play. If he doesn't generate much interest, waiting too long to sign the tender could turn the city and the FO against Anderson, thus strengthening Quinn's position. So that period gives Dunn enough time to gauge the chances of Anderson getting a big deal while not burning bridges with his old team.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
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U got 3 legs or 5 bro ... need to know how many so I know the size of your butt .. so I can figure out what the odds of a nat flying out it are as opposed to an ant flying out of it ... I don't think for a second that either will happen .... just want to figure out the odds THAT IT COULD HAPPEN ...
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