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I saw the two threads were merged.... so I don;t know where various arguments were stopped.
My particular beef was the amount of the contract given to DA as I believe its a huge overpayment...
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Dude, it's Free Agency. Everyone is getting overpaid. I just still wonder why we upped the offer when DA's value on the open market was apparently less than appealing. But my guess is that Savage was afraid of him playing under the tender. He only tendered him to ensure we'd get compensation and now that we didn't, he figured might as well get him signed. Just seems a bit premature. FA is only hours old. Seems like we caved pretty darn quick.
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I just deleted 2 posts from this thread that were not on topic. Please folks, the news is gonna come hot and heavy at times since FA opened up, let's try not cluttering up PF with inane banter. (too much)  
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Quote:
Dude, it's Free Agency. Everyone is getting overpaid. I just still wonder why we upped the offer when DA's value on the open market was less than appealing. But my guess is that Savage was afraid of him playing under the tender. He only tendered him to ensure we'd get compensation and now that we didn't, he figured might as well get him signed. Just seems a bit premature. FA is only hours old. Seems like we caved pretty darn quick.
I feel the same way...I think we pulled the trigger a little fast. Should've waited a couple of days to see if anyone changed their minds about DA, and wait for some of the smoke to clear
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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As far as I'm concerned this is a good day. We addressed a huge need with the trade for Williams and shored up the QB position. We can give DA another year to prove he is the guy or Quinn the chance to step up and take the job. There was no need to rush the situation.
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I can't believe some people are upset over this.
It's almost like when Mensa lost his marbles after Frye was traded. I'm waiting for that meltdown for someone to have.
For crying out loud, it will all work out OK in the end. Either Anderson becomes elite, or Quinn becomes better than average, or even elite.
This is not Couch/Holcomb where you have no legit QB afterall...one of these guys is gonna be legit.
My personal reaction is "Meh, whatever happens, happens."
My money's on Quinn but I'm glad we have insurance at the most important position on the field.
Last edited by Ammo; 02/29/08 02:49 PM.
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I agree, my confusion is why did we raised our offer.
And please don’t tell me everything is the way supposed to be… this is was supposed to happen.
I understand on signing DA and let BQ and DA compete for starting job, and keep 2 qbs for security blanket
Just can’t understand raising offer. Though its 3 year deal its freaking 8 mil. Per year 
Wow we have got our Payton manning
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I'm on the same page as you guys... WHY throw that kind of money at him at this point? There was no offer to match yet...plus I doubt if many teams would've lined up with a first and a third anyways.
the only way I can see this making sense is if it was a sign and trade scheme for say, a player and a pick, or a package of picks.
if not, its hard to see the logic in it. Savage usually does pretty well so I'm holding out hope that there is some arcane, mysterious smoke and mirrors action going on that will pan out.
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People were attacking me because I didn't like DA being called a Pro Bowl QB....even though he did go to Hawaii.  I know, I know.....he played which then means he's a Pro Bowler. However, DA only gained that honor because Tom Brady decided to stay home (you know he wasn't really injured). So was it really a Pro Bowl for DA? I don't think so. I know I would be putting it on my resume if I had gone there that way. And I've never said I wasn't going to support DA. I just don't like the contract if nobody was going to sign him anyway. Playing under the 1-yr tender was better for us. He still has a lot to prove.
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I am new to posting over here, but I have been reading for years
You have definitely changed your tone. 
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That's the ONLY thing about this that has me scratching my head a little bit. We had given DA a pretty good offer, and we had allready said that we would take a 1st and 3rd if it came to that. Why sign him so quickly to a higher deal than originally stated  . That's the one thing that confusses me a little about this. Which is not hard to do by the way. Why not just let DA sit out there for awhile and see that 3 yrs. and 20 mil. may be the best offer he was going to get. Then if someone offered more and was willing to give up the 1st and 3rd..........so be it. If no one stepped up, we give him the original 3yrs., 20 mil. offered? Can someone give me a valid reason to do what we did, besides a sign & trade (which I don't think is the case)??
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Quote:
It's almost like when Mensa lost his marbles after Frye was traded. I'm waiting for that meltdown for someone to have.
Poor Mensa. 
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I am new to posting over here, but I have been reading for years
You have definitely changed your tone.
Not really.
I'm still in Quinn camp, I just get gunshy when it comes to letting go a QB who did great things (and awful things as well...those who were in Chat during the 2nd Bengals game know I was flipping out).
I want the best man to win, and I want us to be in control of what happens. It's better than getting a 1st and 3rd only to find out you're back to the drawing board at the QB position.
That said, I think Quinn is gonna kick his ass come training camp.
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That'd be sweet By the end of the season he'd be asking for a trade
There are no sacred cows.
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Quote:
Quote:
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I am new to posting over here, but I have been reading for years
You have definitely changed your tone.
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Not really.
I'm still in Quinn camp, I just get gunshy when it comes to letting go a QB who did great things (and awful things as well...those who were in Chat during the 2nd Bengals game know I was flipping out).
I want the best man to win, and I want us to be in control of what happens. It's better than getting a 1st and 3rd only to find out you're back to the drawing board at the QB position.
That said, I think Quinn is go nna kick his ass come training camp.
There you go...now i know i am reading Ammo
Provided Phil dose not make DA starter for this year and we have competition in training camp
After this signing … I feel anything can happen
Last edited by CrUzEr; 02/29/08 02:59 PM.
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People were attacking me because I didn't like DA being called a Pro Bowl QB....even though he did go to Hawaii.
I know, I know.....he played which then means he's a Pro Bowler. However, DA only gained that honor because Tom Brady decided to stay home (you know he wasn't really injured). So was it really a Pro Bowl for DA? I don't think so. I know I would be putting it on my resume if I had gone there that way.
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The same could be said for Joe Thomas, and Kellen Winslow...but you'll call them Pro-Bowlers
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Clevelandbrowns.com homepage doesn't have a story on Anderson or Williams?
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Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Clevelandbrowns.com homepage doesn't have a story on Anderson or Williams?
Yeah, I don't think either deal is official. I don't think DA has actually signed his contract yet, but has only agreed to terms. And Williams may have to pass a physical or officially agree on terms of a new deal before they announce. This is all just a guess, but I think clevelandbrowns.com does have to wait until the deals are signed, sealed, and delivered.
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Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Clevelandbrowns.com homepage doesn't have a story on Anderson or Williams?
Yeah, I've been checking it off and on all day to at least see the Willimas signing, but nothing. I can at least see the DA deal not being up there because from everything I've heard, it is agreed upon but not signed yet, so hey may not put it up until it is official. Maybe that is what it is with Williams too. Tha trade isn't actually final until he signs the new contract.
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Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Clevelandbrowns.com homepage doesn't have a story on Anderson or Williams?
Leaves me to believe neither contract has been signed as yet.
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IF we raised the offer - and that's a capitalized bolded super duper if - there is a reason behind it.
My guess is by inking him one way or another the Browns now control the situation. And by controlling the situation - we can now choose a potential trade partner for DA or spend on other FA's - or by eating some of DA's cap hit he becomes "More trade - a -bull...
The only thing we know is that we are like cockroaches - kept in the dark
Last edited by Referee6; 02/29/08 03:57 PM.
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There was no need to rush the situation.
While I agree that haste makes waste, let's look at the possible outcomes in the present scenario...
1.) DA wins the job in camp but still plays inconsistently throughout the season. 1a.) We turn to Quinn and he lights it up. Bye bye DA. 1b.) We turn to Quinn and he's no better than DA. Now what??
2.) DA wins the job in camp and tears it up all season long. TADA!! We have found our man. Bye-bye Brady but we hardly ever knew ye!
3.) Quinn wins the job in camp but struggles thoughout the season being that he's really like a rookie and all. 3a.) We let Quinn take his lumps and learn from it. DA is history. 3b.) DA relieves Quinn and becomes the man. 3c.) DA relieves Quinn and does no better. Now what???
4.) Quinn wins the job in camp and lights it up. Bye bye DA. Thanks for the memories.
2 options give us a clear cut starter and the other 2 give us a QB contoversy or at least put us back in this same situation next off-season. I don't like it. No one on this team is getting any younger and our window may not be open very long. This is the NFL. I guess we'll never know until we see how it pans out and then we can't worry about the past and wonder 'whatif'. But this is why I am so torn on this whole issue right now. It could end well for us, but it could also end unfavorably. Whoever loses the competition by season's end won't be worth nearly as much as we've invested in them.
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Can someone give me a valid reason to do what we did, besides a sign & trade (which I don't think is the case)??
Maybe Savage wanted to keep him? and DA and his agents knew it? Maybe DA wanted to stay BUT had a better long term offer (let´s assume 20mil guaranteed) and said: Give me a little bit more or you´ll get a 1st and 3rd?
I really think the solution to all this....and I know it´s hard to understand for some on here....is: Savage likes DA and his upside and he paid him....it´s that easy folks
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Quote:
Quote:
People were attacking me because I didn't like DA being called a Pro Bowl QB....even though he did go to Hawaii.
I know, I know.....he played which then means he's a Pro Bowler. However, DA only gained that honor because Tom Brady decided to stay home (you know he wasn't really injured). So was it really a Pro Bowl for DA? I don't think so. I know I would be putting it on my resume if I had gone there that way.
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The same could be said for Joe Thomas, and Kellen Winslow...but you'll call them Pro-Bowlers
No, I wouldn't. To me, we have two real Pro Bowlers (Edwards & Cribbs). Thomas, Ponti, Winslow and DA were all replacements. That's not to say I'm not proud of their accomplishments in the season and being so close to the top of their position list.....but they aren't "true Pro Bowlers" in my opinion.
I think it's like the All-American list in college. If you're on the list, you made it. End of story. They don't have replacements. And that may be because there isn't an All-American Game. And that's how I look at the Pro Bowl list. If your peers thought you were the best of the best, you made the list. The ones that didn't aren't true Pro Bowlers.
What would have happened had Ben Roth couldn't have made the Pro Bowl too? We would have had 5 Pro Bowl AFC QB's. And then what if his replacement was Rivers (who was injured in the playoffs)? Then we'd have to replace him with another QB..........The top three were it in my book (Brady, Manning and Roth).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I still don't think Anderson will be with the Browns in 2008.
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POST DELETED DUE TO DISGUISED NAME-CALLING.
DON'T DO IT AGAIN.
Last edited by Referee1; 02/29/08 04:39 PM.
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I really think the solution to all this....and I know it´s hard to understand for some on here....is: Savage likes DA and his upside and he paid him....it´s that easy folks
Then why did he offer that before.....
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I still don't think Anderson will be with the Browns in 2008.
Wouldn't surprise me. I don't think DA has actually signed his contract yet, which means he can still talk to other teams. By DA coming to terms with the Browns though, other teams can see what it would take money-wise to get DA. I'm waiting for the official announcement of DA having actually physically signed the contract.
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There has been smoke here and there about us trading DA, but I don't buy it. If we agreed to a deal then he's a Brown in 2008 IMO. I don't see us just agreeing on a deal and then trading him, it doesn't make sense.
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Has Da signed the deal yet. NO he has not, so for me till the pen meets the paper he can still be traded. Right or wrong.
Next, I like a few other posters find it odd that Phil raised the offer.
Do I see a trade in the wings, I do not know, but until the pen meets the paper he still could be traded.
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Savage likes DA and his upside and he paid him....it´s that easy folks
Thanks for at least trying Django, I just can't see how it IS that easy though. Most everyone on this board thought that DA wasn't worth a 1st and 3rd......myself included. So I think MOST on here would have jumped at a 1st and 3rd for DA.
Now I know none of us are Savage and have the tools/knowledge on hand that Savage has at his disposal, but let me ask you this........would you have taken a 1st and 3rd for DA?
In your explaination, someone was willing to give us that and Savage HAD to up the ante to keep DA in the fold. I just don't think that was the case.
Hell, maybe it was that simple, Savage wanted DA to stay and felt he had to give DA more to stay. Maybe Savage felt DA was worth more than a 1st and 3rd to us........I just find that awfull hard to swallow. 
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
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The only possile trade scenario I see is a team like Miami or Atlanta who would trade us a 2nd or 3rd rounder this year and a 1st next year. Savage said he wouldn't accept anything less than a 1st and 3rd, he didn't say they both had to be in this draft. Miami and Atlanta may not be willing to give up thier picks at the top of the draft this year for him. They trade a pick this year that helps us, and they hope that the pick they would give us next year to be lower than this year. This is pure speculation on my part, but that is the only possible trade scenario I see here.
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I don't think he had to up the offer to keep DA from signing with another team but he might have had to up it to get DA to sign for a multi year deal. Maybe he didn't want DA to play under another 1 year contract and possibly lose him next year for nothing. This way he is locked in and we hold all the cards on what happens to him next season.
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I still don't think Anderson will be with the Browns in 2008.
That may be the case, but if the contract is signed, it all but guarantees he'll be a Brown in 2008. If 14M is guaranteed as I've seen in multiple places, there's no way we take that big of a cap hit this year.
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Quote:
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I still don't think Anderson will be with the Browns in 2008.
That may be the case, but if the contract is signed, it all but guarantees he'll be a Brown in 2008. If 14M is guaranteed as I've seen in multiple places, there's no way we take that big of a cap hit this year.
And like others have pointed out, $14M guaranteed is different than $14M signing bonus. Guaranteed money isn't prorated, the signing bonus is. And nobody knows what the signing bonus is yet.
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OK, haven't looked at it like that. Maybe DA was willing to go into the season riding that one yr. tender banking on having a big yr., then he would've been an unrestricted FA and could have cashed in even better than he has this yr. I can see that. But   I think I would have taken that chance if I was Savage as I feel Brady has a very good shot at beating him out in camp before the season even starts.....than DA is up creek without a paddle and we still hold the upper hand as no one is going to pay big bucks to a QB who can't even start for his own team. I think that all of the risk would have been on DA's camp had he taken that route. ttimothy, I see your side, I just don't think that scenerio makes sense for Savage either.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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One thing about the Pro-bowl thing: Pontbriand was selected as the long snapper by the head coach of the AFC team. Thats how it usually happens since a long snapper would never be voted on by the fans. I think he should get the full credit  just my 2 cents
There are no sacred cows.
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POST DELETED
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