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Also, what else would you expect Savage to say, he isn't going to say "Just because we signed Derek doesn't mean there won't be a competition" because the last thing he wants is QB controversy those help divide a locker room, im sure he doesnt want that.
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I disagree on DA being pro-bowl material, but it's a moot point.
And, even if our QB was Tom Brady I would want the better QB from camp to start. A lot of things can change with time off. And, what would you do, let TB look like crap for half a season before you finally pull him? It's not about money.
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Quote:
I disagree on DA being pro-bowl material, but it's a moot point.
And, even if our QB was Tom Brady I would want the better QB from camp to start. A lot of things can change with time off. And, what would you do, let TB look like crap for half a season before you finally pull him? It's not about money.
Two thumbs up for that one!
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No, handing him the starting position is stupid when you very well may have a better QB in the house.
Open competition with both guys always looking over their shoulder, afraid to make a mistake is much better.
I have my opinion about DA, just like everyone else. I think everyone knows where I stand on him. I didn't think he was worth this kind of deal. But, I also trust Phil Savage and co. to know more about football than I do. There's a reason they are working for an NFL team, and I am typing about what they do on a message board.
If Phil, and co. think he's worth this, then I'm trusting he's worth this.
PS- I'm still not ruling out a sign then trade scenario. I won't be ruling that out until I see Anderson on the sideline in the first preseason game 
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No, handing him the starting position is stupid when you very well may have a better QB in the house.
Let me ask you a serious question.
Who do you think really knows more about DA and BQ? The fans who have seen BQ play in one series of a meaningless game at the end of the year, or the coaching staff and the front office who see both every day in practice, on tape, in meetings, etc?
Michelle, think about it logically. If everything was equal, the Browns would let BQ start. Hell, they would let him start even if DA was slightly better. They invested heavily in BQ last year. They must have seen things in both players' games to favor DA. Don't you think?
I haven't brought this up before, because I didn't want to offend anyone. Well, one guy in particular. But, for the decision to even contemplate who is the starter, DA must be looking a lot better than BQ.
I doubt if it is as simple as they are "stupid." Now, think about it and let me know.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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Quote:
Who do you think really knows more about DA and BQ? The fans who have seen BQ play in one series of a meaningless game at the end of the year, or the coaching staff and the front office who see both every day in practice, on tape, in meetings, etc?
Of course the coaches know more about them...that wasn't my point.
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Michelle, I am not saying this in a mean way, so don't get riled.
I'm saying that perhaps the coaches and front office really believe that DA is the better QB. Therefore, their decision isn't stupid.
Make sense?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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I would say that DA is a better option right now. Quinn is still not the guy---we would not sign DA if BQ was ready to go.
DA is both a starter and an insurance policy. If he gets beat out in camp--then we still have a solid back-up. If he maintain to perform up to par---then he is our starter. Either way we win.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Let me clarify something. I have no idea if the Browns think DA is better. I just posed that possibility as a logical explanation of why the Browns are wanting DA to be the starter. I think it makes more sense than the Browns are stupid. <<shrug>>
I will say this...........I am fairly certain that Savage has been real high on DA. And that goes before DA's big year.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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I agree that Phil is most likely high on DA. I'd just feel better if he hadn't been high on Pool, too......And lest we forget it's only been a year since he was high on Quinn.
It's been a good day. But in the end performance is what will tell the tale. At least I hope it will.
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Yeah, Phil has had his good moments and bad. I will say that he has seemed to improve each year. I hated that first draft and FA period. I thought the second one was quite a bit better. I thought he did great last year by getting Joe, Steiny, and Lewis. And I think he is off to a good start this year. I'm optimistic. Much more-so than I was in his first year.
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I agree. If he pulls off this Rogers deal for a decent price I'll probably have a Draft party just to laugh at all the other teams.  I know Rogers had an incident in a strip club in the past but if I thought all football players had to be saints I'd probably be watching Australian Rules Chess...... 
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Quote:
Quote:
No, handing him the starting position is stupid when you very well may have a better QB in the house.
Let me ask you a serious question.
Who do you think really knows more about DA and BQ? The fans who have seen BQ play in one series of a meaningless game at the end of the year, or the coaching staff and the front office who see both every day in practice, on tape, in meetings, etc?
Michelle, think about it logically. If everything was equal, the Browns would let BQ start. Hell, they would let him start even if DA was slightly better. They invested heavily in BQ last year. They must have seen things in both players' games to favor DA. Don't you think?
I haven't brought this up before, because I didn't want to offend anyone. Well, one guy in particular. But, for the decision to even contemplate who is the starter, DA must be looking a lot better than BQ.
I doubt if it is as simple as they are "stupid." Now, think about it and let me know.
I agree 100% Vers, and im a huge Quinn fan.
If Anderson was signed for 3 years, and isn't traded, there must be something that everyone likes about Anderson over Quinn.
Someone within the Browns told me they really wanted Anderson signed because they believe he is the better QB too.
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Quote:
Couch-Holcomb part deaux
Except we have two good quarterbacks.
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Verse,
I think that if we knew what the Browns really thought of Brady Quinn, we would all rest easier.
I would suggest that your premise is flawed, because everything was not equal last year. Quinn made a bad move by holding out, that put him lower on the depth chart, and even with a great preseason, DA was given the shot when Frye failed. It is not Quinn's fault that DA lit it up.
What we know is that the Browns are handling the situation that is in the best interest of the team, they are not concerned about rushing Quinn or about DA flopping. They now have 2 viable options.
I think the Browns will have a more equal situation going into camp. If Quinn lights it up during camp, he will play.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
I think the Browns will have a more equal situation going into camp. If Quinn lights it up during camp, he will play.
Only if Anderson falls flat on his face, but also remember how horrible Anderson was in camp last year, I wanted him cut, he looked horrible in camp.
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LOL......well, my premise may be flawed, but I doubt if it flawed for the reasons you stated. I was responding to a report about Savage saying that DA would be the starter next year and someone said that was stupid. And I sure don't know where you got the idea that I said it was Quinn's fault? 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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I read that Quinn has every intention to win the QB job this year... I know this is kinda what he is suppose to say, but still... gotta like the guy's confidence.
The thing that is bothering me... if Quinn does light it up and beat out Anderson then what have we gotten out of Anderson? We could have dangled him out there and gotten some picks or defensive help.
We may still get some help, but not the kind we would have gotten if the trade happened before the start of the season.
I know this may not happen, but it makes me wonder.... We just signed Anderson for 3 years and he may not even win the QB job. Yes Savage might say he is the Starting QB, but if Quinn lights it up... how can Savage/Crennel ignore it? He can't just say... yeah he's better, but we'll save him until next year.
I, personally, was really hoping we could get a team to bite on Anderson and get the 1st and 3rd round compensation for him. Maybe we still will get a team to offer up something. Anderson may be better now then what any of the QB's in the draft may ever be. Ryan is the only one that kinda sticks out to me. Brohm, Henne, and Flacco are mediocre IMO.
Imagine if we get into the Top 10 and have a shot at landing Long, Gholston, or even McFadden, Mendenhall, or Stewart?
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I am not trying for an endless debate on the subject, I have avoided most of the discussion on the DA subject because it is the "silly season"
Quinn hurt himself last year with the holdout, so the circumstance (or premise) of "all things being equal" never existed.
The Quinns fault was more a postulation, no one could have predicted that DA would light the league up. Espicially me, I was as surprised as anyone.
And I would agree that DA is the starter until Quinn is the better choice.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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It's easy for Phil to say that now.
Romeo still has the final say so. And if DA stinks up the joint, far enough into the season, he won't remain the starter.
DA has earned the right to go into the season as the starter...just as Charlie Frye did last year...we all know how that ended.
I wouldn't get too caught up in starters right now.
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QB is the most important position in the NFL game.
I hope that either Quinn or DA lights it up. Chances are, one of them will.
Other players would be nice, but not having a QB is something that the Browns cannot risk.
At 3 years, the Browns have a contract that is friendly to the team, or as trade material. Quinn's contract is for a similar duration.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Charger, I agree that BQ hurt himself w/the holdout. However, I heard the plan was not to let BQ start no matter what, and that was the word before he held out. However, it was in the plans for him to start in year two, no matter what Charlie did.
When I referred to DA possibly being better than BQ in the eyes of the Browns, has nothing to do w/the holdout. It has everything to do w/how they performed in practice, DA's year on the field, and how they handled themselves in meetings and film breakdown.
I'm not saying that is a fact. I'm saying it is more plausible than the Browns being stupid for saying DA is the starter and them not wanting to trade them.
I too, don't want an endless debate on this topic, but I think you may have misinterpreted what I said, or at the very least, the comment I was responding to.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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Quote:
Yeah, Phil has had his good moments and bad. I will say that he has seemed to improve each year. I hated that first draft and FA period. I thought the second one was quite a bit better. I thought he did great last year by getting Joe, Steiny, and Lewis. And I think he is off to a good start this year. I'm optimistic. Much more-so than I was in his first year.
I can see where you're coming from. I think he was a little trigger happy his first year...he just picked poor targets to shoot at.
His second year, his aim got better, and the third year.
It seems he's well on his way to becoming a marksman...but of course, only time will tell
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gotcha.
I think it was the comment you were responding to.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
Let me clarify something. I have no idea if the Browns think DA is better. I just posed that possibility as a logical explanation of why the Browns are wanting DA to be the starter. I think it makes more sense than the Browns are stupid. <<shrug>>
I will say this...........I am fairly certain that Savage has been real high on DA. And that goes before DA's big year.
First of all, I never said "the Browns are stupid", so please stop implying that I did. I said the decision to name Anderson the starter, and say there will be no competition in camp is stupid. What if Anderson looks like total dog crap in camp? Still want him starting? It's February...how can they have any idea how either one of them will look at this point?
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If he goes in as the starter he has VALUE to other teams.
Not so much if he loses in open competition. This is not over yet.
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This is not a knock on DA so please don't take it as that, but on the Roda show, (I know, I was only listening and waiting for Phil's presser which was 2 hours late), a dude called in and said there was one thing DA didn't do last season and that was to take a Tim Couch-type of hit and jump back up throwing. Ouch! Well...he hasn't had to. Partly because of his O-line and partly because of his quick release. The dude made a funny out of it for sure. But the fact remains that any player is out as early as the next play. Having both QB's here is hands down the best situation for the Browns. In other news... DA is now getting paid starter money. Quinn is making backup money. It doesn't matter much financially which one starts and which one backs up. You are going to have that much money tied up in your starter and your backup combined anyway. Last season, financially, the Browns were paying both their #1 and #2 backup money. Financially, the QB situation has been very good for the Browns in RAC and Savage's tenure. So now we pay a starter real starter money. I can't have a problem with that. And if one or the other gets hurt we have a viable backup regardless. Our QB situation, regardless of how "ugly" some can make it out to be, is the best we have had since we came back. And I have no doubt in my mind that with the extra time the Browns trust now have to make the decision on the future starter they will make the right one. I'm happy as hell. We are still in a win-win situation with our QB's.
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<<sigh>> Nevermind Michelle........they are stupid for saying DA is the starter. Happy now?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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LOL, no Vers....I just think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, that's all. I hope ndutyme is right and this could change if Anderson stinks it up in camp. As long as the starting decision comes from RAC after camp, I'll be good with either QB. I just think it's a bit premature to set it in stone today .
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It probably isn't set in stone, Michelle. It might be that DA looked much better in their eyes last year than BQ did. Perhaps they are sending a message to BQ to think a little bit more about football and little less about commercials, especially when he hasn't even started an NFL game, never mind winning one?
I don't know...........all I am saying is that DA's contract, along with the declarations of not trading him, and proclaiming DA the starter next year, tell me that DA has outperformed BQ in their minds.
I think this "better QB waiting in the wings" mentality that is prevalent on this board; on talk shows; and even in the media is unfounded. It's speculation from a group of people who do not see both QBs day in and day out. It's more of "hope" and "wanting it to be true" than it is reality.
I really am not trying to be harsh and I hope it doesn't come across that way. I'm just trying to get you to see that there may indeed be another side to the story.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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I think that was nothing more than a press conference statement
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I think it would be stupid to announce anything other then DA as the starter. I seriously doubt the Browns will start DA id Quinn is doing better. Taking out the "open competetion" is the right thing to do. That doesn't mean they have to stand by their decision.
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Yes, I get it, thanks. 
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My only complaint about DA is he can't hit the short passes when he needs too. How many times has he under or over threw the reciever on a slant or out pattern? It doesn't take alot of talent to throw the ball 40 yards and let Braylon run under it or dive like he had to a few times. The interceptions he threw made me sick. Some looked like he was really throwing to the defense. But if he could work this out this summer I wouldn't complain with him starting. After all I got the player back I wanted back. Thank you Jamal, love watching him run over people. I just hope they know what they are doing in Cleveland and even if they don't I will still be watching and rooting every sunday
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Finally...  We all learn to realize things on our own time... DA is the stater until he loses the job, gets injured, traded, released or retires... No QB who is 10-5 the prior year loses their job when the bullets aren't flying, camp and pre-season... It just doens't happen very often... He didn't sign what he signed to be the back up... He didn't get offerd back up money or position... I hope he lights it up from now on... For the good of all involved... When and if the time comes where he doesn't cut it, he'll get a back up spot or he'll be done... Let's support the heck out of him and hope he's part of the reason the Browns future success... Next...?
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Wow, I think DA and his agent realized that the restricted free agent market is only for superstars. Curtis martian is the only top tender Restricted FA to move from one team to another for a 1st and 3rd. Just a little NFL FA tidbit there.
On the other hand . . . how hard is BQ kicking himself for holding out last year!?!?!?
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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It might be that DA looked much better in their eyes last year than BQ did. Perhaps they are sending a message to BQ to think a little bit more about football and little less about commercials, especially when he hasn't even started an NFL game, never mind winning one?
Horsefeathers.
The FO won't begrudge a guy the opportunity to make some jack by making commercials. I'm rather shocked you even mentioned such a thought.
Having said that, I agree with you. It's OBVIOUS that the FO thinks he's the better QB right now. They wouldn't offer him a new deal, or IMPROVE the new deal if they felt otherwise.
Do I think he's a better prospect than Quinn? I think they are two very different kind of QB's, but I've no idea which one is the better high-end guy.
I saw a question somewhere on one of the 10+ pages that involved Anderson which asked why even bother improving the offer. Here's why......
One way or another, Anderson won't finish this contract as the starter. You can write that down and call me on it in three years. With the way the economics of the game continues to skyrocket, this contract will be iffy money by the beginning of the 2010 season. By then, if Anderson has continued to grow and has become a reliable starting QB in this league, his contract will be changed and he'll get BIG money. However, if Anderson is passed up by Quinn, he'll be a viable backup making good money to stay, OR he'll have been traded and will be playing for a new contract with some other team.
What do we know about the contract? It's what....$24 million over three years, with $14 million guaranteed? Considering that it's only a 3-year deal, the "guaranteed" money is really just a combination of his signing bonus and his 2008 salary.
So what does that do to the last two years of the contract?
We're now talking about an average of around $5 million per season for those last two. It's probably something like $4.5 mil and $5.5 mil, give or take. For a starting QB in this league, that isn't amazing money people. We also don't know if there are any incentives built into the 2nd and 3rd years.
Let me further put this in perspective based on what a 36-year old backup QB just signed for:
Quote:
Contract Information for Todd Collins
2/29/2008: Signed a three-year, $9 million contract. The deal contains $4 million in guarantees, including a $3 million signing bonus. 2008: $900,000 (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2009: $1.9 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2010: $2.9 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2011: Free Agent
So what I'm saying above probably jives. Considering that Anderson got 3x the deal of Collins, it probably works out like this:
Anderson gets a $9-$10 million SB (spread out over three seasons) with $4-$6 million per. When you stop to consider how much Quinn WON'T be getting because he isn't playing, this deal stops looking like an overpayment and starts looking like smart business.
If Anderson plays well enough to keep earning this money and get a new contract, well, duh, problem solved.
If Anderson plays middling but Quinn isn't good enough to take the job, Anderson is accurately payed, and this QB situation continues to work itself out by allowing these two guys to battle it out over the next TWO seasons.
If Quinn beats him out either during this year or at the start of the next one, Anderson becomes one of the best backups in the league (even if he's being paid like a starter) or becomes tradeable because his contract isn't brutal.
So back to the question........why give him a few more million in combined guarantees and overall package money? Because what's $3-$5 million over the next three seasons to make SURE we're making the best decision at THE most important single position on the team? Remember, by making sure he signed this deal, we're guaranteed of any of the above scenarios, and because the deal is structured this way, it DOESN'T lock him into the job if he can't perform.
Think about it in these terms before you (general term) rush to judge.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I am fairly certain that Savage has been real high on DA. And that goes before DA's big year.
If thats the case, why did they draft Quinn?
[color:"white"]I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane -Waylon Jennings
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Who thought DA was ever going to light it up in the NFL? Not many even saw him making the roster by opening day. Had not Frye done such a terrible job in game one it may have been DA who was shipped out instead of Frye so they could bring back Dorsey. They were not going to keep four quarterbacks in 2007. Sure that. The team had no faith in either Charlie Frye or Derek Anderson. That's why they drafted Quinn. In 2007, the way things played out with DA starting you would hardly have pulled DA out in favor of BQ. It didn't make sense. It wasn't hurting BQ to sit and we were winning with an awesome TD scoring offense. The team had all of 2007 to evaluate and compare DA with BQ in practices. What their consensus ended up being is that they're still not sure which QB is the future. I assume that to mean it's a close comparision at this point. They didn't give DA the 6 year franchise contract or give BQ the job. They chose to keep both for a good reason that is stated particularly well by Vers, a hundred times all over this board, and again by Toad above and in other threads. Why people keep looking for a secret agenda by the Browns is beyond me. They've done nothing more or less than what they've been telling us they wanted to do all along. It seems the favoritisim of one player or the other is hard to let go of even when faced with the facts Who's our QB of the future. My answer to that is as plain as the nose on everyone's face; I don't know. And apparently neither do the Browns. So they protected themselves in a way that allows them more time to evaluate and figure it out. It's the option I'd want if I had to make the decision. To prolong it as long as it took for me to be sure I'm making the right one. Choosing the right quarterback for this team is akin to the responsibility of feeding your family for them. It is feeding their families. Because if they fail with this team there are going to be a lot of families in a flux because they are all going to get fired at one point. The team will turn to crap and evereyone will be excited to see a new regime take over and build us into contenders. Raise your hands if you want to wait for a new regime to rebuild a floundering Browns team agian. ... ... ... I don't see any hands. ... ... ... The Browns must make the right decision on who the quarterback is going to be for the next ten years. If it takes them two years to decide it's not a squander of time or money considering the stakes. If anyone is willing to let the excitement of "seeing what our #1 pick can do" overide the common sense of making the right decision on the most important position on the team then there's your trouble. That decision could mean the difference between the Browns being a long-term contender or continue being a perenial loser. I'm willing to wait. Lord knows I may not live long enough to ride the entire journey of yet another regime trying to rebuild this team.
#gmstrong
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