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1st String
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1st String
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I don't have a problem with home schooling. But if you do want to home school your children, you must be a certified teacher....Elementary Education for K-6, and Secondary Education for 7-12. Unqualified, untrained parents educating the future working generation is a scary thought. I don't care how good you think you might be. If you are not educated to be an educator.....well then, you shouldn't attempt to educate others.
I'm not advocating Nation's public School System either. It's broken...badly. The "No Child Left Behind Act" doesn't help one bit either. Hire more teachers, shrink class sizes...You'd see the quality of education in this country go up.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTLA California appeals court ruling clamping down on homeschooling by parents without teaching credentials sent shock waves across the state this week, leaving an estimated 166,000 children as possible truants and their parents at risk of prosecution. The homeschooling movement never saw the case coming. "At first, there was a sense of, 'No way,' " said homeschool parent Loren Mavromati, a resident of Redondo Beach (Los Angeles County) who is active with a homeschool association. "Then there was a little bit of fear. I think it has moved now into indignation." The ruling arose from a child welfare dispute between the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services and Philip and Mary Long of Lynwood, who have been homeschooling their eight children. Mary Long is their teacher, but holds no teaching credential. The parents said they also enrolled their children in Sunland Christian School, a private religious academy in Sylmar (Los Angeles County), which considers the Long children part of its independent study program and visits the home about four times a year. The Second District Court of Appeal ruled that California law requires parents to send their children to full-time public or private schools or have them taught by credentialed tutors at home. Some homeschoolers are affiliated with private or charter schools, like the Longs, but others fly under the radar completely. Many homeschooling families avoid truancy laws by registering with the state as a private school and then enroll only their own children. Yet the appeals court said state law has been clear since at least 1953, when another appellate court rejected a challenge by homeschooling parents to California's compulsory education statutes. Those statutes require children ages 6 to 18 to attend a full-time day school, either public or private, or to be instructed by a tutor who holds a state credential for the child's grade level. "California courts have held that ... parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey said in the 3-0 ruling issued on Feb. 28. "Parents have a legal duty to see to their children's schooling under the provisions of these laws." Parents can be criminally prosecuted for failing to comply, Croskey said. "A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue. Union pleased with ruling The ruling was applauded by a director for the state's largest teachers union. "We're happy," said Lloyd Porter, who is on the California Teachers Association board of directors. "We always think students should be taught by credentialed teachers, no matter what the setting." A spokesman for the state Department of Education said the agency is reviewing the decision to determine its impact on current policies and procedures. State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell issued a statement saying he supports "parental choice when it comes to homeschooling." Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute, which agreed earlier this week to represent Sunland Christian School and legally advise the Long family on a likely appeal to the state Supreme Court, said the appellate court ruling has set a precedent that can now be used to go after homeschoolers. "With this case law, anyone in California who is homeschooling without a teaching credential is subject to prosecution for truancy violation, which could require community service, heavy fines and possibly removal of their children under allegations of educational neglect," Dacus said. Parents say they choose homeschooling for a variety of reasons, from religious beliefs to disillusionment with the local public schools. Homeschooling parent Debbie Schwarzer of Los Altos said she's ready for a fight. Schwarzer runs Oak Hill Academy out of her Santa Clara County home. It is a state-registered private school with two students, she said, noting they are her own children, ages 10 and 12. She does not have a teaching credential, but she does have a law degree. "I'm kind of hoping some truancy officer shows up on my doorstep," she said. "I'm ready. I have damn good arguments." She opted to teach her children at home to better meet their needs. The ruling, Schwarzer said, "stinks." Began as child welfare case The Long family legal battle didn't start out as a test case on the validity of homeschooling. It was a child welfare case. A juvenile court judge looking into one child's complaint of mistreatment by Philip Long found that the children were being poorly educated but refused to order two of the children, ages 7 and 9, to be enrolled in a full-time school. He said parents in California have a right to educate their children at home. The appeals court told the juvenile court judge to require the parents to comply with the law by enrolling their children in a school, but excluded the Sunland Christian School from enrolling the children because that institution "was willing to participate in the deprivation of the children's right to a legal education." The decision could also affect other kinds of homeschooled children, including those enrolled in independent study or distance learning through public charter schools - a setup similar to the one the Longs have, Dacus said. Charter school advocates disagreed, saying Thursday that charter schools are public and are required to employ only credentialed teachers to supervise students - whether in class or through independent study. Ruling will apply statewide Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association, said the ruling would effectively ban homeschooling in the state. "California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the vast majority of homeschooling parents their fundamental right to teach their own children at home," he said in a statement. But Leslie Heimov, executive director of the Children's Law Center of Los Angeles, which represented the Longs' two children in the case, said the ruling did not change the law. "They just affirmed that the current California law, which has been unchanged since the last time it was ruled on in the 1950s, is that children have to be educated in a public school, an accredited private school, or with an accredited tutor," she said. "If they want to send them to a private Christian school, they can, but they have to actually go to the school and be taught by teachers." Heimov said her organization's chief concern was not the quality of the children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety." Online resources The ruling: To view the ruling by the Second District Court of Appeal, go to links.sfgate.com/ZCQR.
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Bengal
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Bengal
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I hope all the other states follow. Most parents that do this think they are "helping" their kids by sheltering them and etc.... it's all a bunch of bs, imo.
If you're a qualified teacher, that's a different story... kinda. I still believe a kid needs to interact with other kids. It helps them develop socially
![[Linked Image from media.lehighvalleylive.com]](http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/tv_impact/photo/birds-of-war-3b1e411c023703c8_custom_120xauto.jpg) Birds of War
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I know a kid who had an affiar with his teacher....... Only problem was he was home schooled.....  
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I have a friend who was homeschooled until his freshman year of high school and he is one of the nicest, most socially outgoing person I know. His mother taught him, she not a certified teacher though she did have some degree, I think she was a dietition.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I don't have a problem with home schooling. There are guidelines to follow...it's not just willy-nilly teach them what you want.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Bengal
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I think keeping up with the curriculum of regular schools is very important. But there is still other things you learn at school besides what's in your books.
From my personal expirience with it, I thought it was a load of 'you know what'. I felt robbed of certain things I can NEVER go back and do now.
Birds of War
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1st String
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I don't have a problem with home schooling. There are guidelines to follow...it's not just willy-nilly teach them what you want.
Home schooling by a some who is certified to teach the age/grade level that they are teaching. Thats fine. Yes, social interaction is key; especially for those under the age of 10.
It's parents who home school kids who have no formal education degree of their own is what flat out scares me. How can you explain math, physics, chemistry, economics, etc... when you yourself are not educated enough to comprehend the subject matter, let alone know how to properly convey that information onto others.
Even home schooling K-6...try to explain to a 6 year old the concept of money, time, or even simple counting. It's not easy to do. If you are not trained on HOW to teach such things, you could set your child back. Yes, you could home school them, and yes they could get their GED...but what about college? You can't home college school them (unless it's schooling them on how to drink once they turn 21  ). I doubt that even 80% of home schooled children are properly prepared for college.
But again, if you are home schooled by a certified educator...more power to you.
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Bengal
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Bengal
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Very true. I am embarassed to tell people I have a GED. Plus a lot of employers look down on that vs. a diploma.... more so now than before.
Birds of War
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Quote:
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I don't have a problem with home schooling. There are guidelines to follow...it's not just willy-nilly teach them what you want.
Home schooling by a some who is certified to teach the age/grade level that they are teaching. Thats fine. Yes, social interaction is key; especially for those under the age of 10.
It's parents who home school kids who have no formal education degree of their own is what flat out scares me. How can you explain math, physics, chemistry, economics, etc... when you yourself are not educated enough to comprehend the subject matter, let alone know how to properly convey that information onto others.
Even home schooling K-6...try to explain to a 6 year old the concept of money, time, or even simple counting. It's not easy to do. If you are not trained on HOW to teach such things, you could set your child back. Yes, you could home school them, and yes they could get their GED...but what about college? You can't home college school them (unless it's schooling them on how to drink once they turn 21 ). I doubt that even 80% of home schooled children are properly prepared for college.
But again, if you are home schooled by a certified educator...more power to you.
Just so you know, that's all opinion. I know people that hated being home schooled and people who loved it. Truthfully, some of them learned far more than I ever did in 12+ years of school from their parents.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Legend
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You don't see this as a little scary? They are basically forcing you to send kids to public school. If they wanted to, they could teach your kid whatever the heck they wanted, and unless you can afford private school, there's nothing you can do about it.
My wife wants us to send our kids to private school, because she hates the "secondary agenda" that some public schools seem to have ... teaching kids based on thier own set of morals, political beliefs and whatnot. The big one she's disgusted with is the fact that a kid can get an excused absence to go to an abortion clinic without parental knowledge.
Fortunatly we can afford to send our kids to a private school ... but what about parents that can't afford it? They have no alternative, unless the parent can somehow get accredited.
Now on the flip side ... is other kids. I dont' necessarily agree with the "no child left behind" ideal. Sure it's great idea to not let a kid slip between the cracks, but there are plenty of kids/parents who just don't care about school and are only going to serve to drag down the education of those around them. You start forcing everyone to go to school, that just means teachers have to spend more of their time with students who don't really care in the first place, rather than the ones who want to work. In California, you also have to worry about the high volume of kids that only speak spanish. Now you will have an even bigger influx of kids who are going to bring down the overall quality of education.
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Bengal
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I agree with him for the most part. I got all A's and a couple B's in public school. When I had to go to homeschooling, I was lucky to get a C in even my favorite subjects.
Alot of it was because I hated it, and I wanted to be back with my friends.
Each situation and family is different though. I had some friends who went on to do very well for themselves.
Birds of War
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Bengal
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If they wanted to, they could teach your kid whatever the heck they wanted
This was my parents' main beef... the whole big bang vs. creation thing. (among other stuff)
My problem with sheltering your kids is eventually, they WILL be exposed to the world, it's inevitable. And a lot of times (not all the time), kids who were the most sheltered, end up being the most screwed up when they grow up.
(Exhibit A: OnB)
Birds of War
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Home schooling doesn't equal sheltering in most cases, though.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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All Pro
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Good for Cali! Hopefully all other states will follow.  What scares me is the overall attitude most people have of our education system in the US. What scares me more is how few people volunteer the time talents and $$$ to aid in the process. There are examples to support any view or position... People who aren't trained in a specific skill shouldn't be performing or teaching those skills. Period! IMO My accountant doesn't give me legal advice or representation, my attorney doesn’t perform the outpatient care I need and my Dr. doesn't due my taxes... How do we improve the education system; by investing in it properly empowering those who are qualified to do so, and by improving the environment that our kids are in. We fix it like we fix every thing else that needs fixed. We can't ignore the challenges, or hope any quick fix will be good enough. I wonder how much impact we could have had on education in this country if we’d focused the same efforts, people and overall resources that we invested in the war in Iraq??? Education should be a top priority in this country, but it is not. We get what we give... We are not entitled to anything... We earn the right...
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1st String
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Being the parents of a child does not make that child your property. You can not, and should not disadvantage your child by homeschooling him / her without credentials because you either think that you are an amazing teacher and have enough mental faculty in all subject areas to instruct your child or because you disagree with the politics / religion / theory of public education. The vast majority of home schooled children are having their education infused with either a massive amount of political or religious indoctrination. As a corollary this will seriously disadvantage most of these children for the rest of their lives.
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1st String
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You don't see this as a little scary? They are basically forcing you to send kids to public school. If they wanted to, they could teach your kid whatever the heck they wanted, and unless you can afford private school, there's nothing you can do about it.
I take it you mean creationism vs. evolution. I don't believe in creationism, but that doesn't mean that my children should be sheltered away from it. If you are so strongly opposed to allowing your children to learn either side of the argument, then you are only setting them up for failure. Teaching one and blatantly discouraging the other will stunt your child's ability to *gasp* choose their own spiritual / religious path in life. Allow them to choose what to believe...don't make them believe it.
Let them learn evolution in the class room. Teach the them creationism at Sunday school. Fundamental separation of church and state.
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My wife wants us to send our kids to private school, because she hates the "secondary agenda" that some public schools seem to have ... teaching kids based on thier own set of morals, political beliefs and whatnot. The big one she's disgusted with is the fact that a kid can get an excused absence to go to an abortion clinic without parental knowledge.
Secondary agenda...?
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I dont' necessarily agree with the "no child left behind" ideal.
The "No Child Left Behind Act" is fundamentally flawed. It does, in reality, forces teachers to only teach what is on the standardized tests. If a school does poorly on the standardized tests, their government funding is cut. It's really counter productive. Not to mention that cramming 30 kids in a class with only 1 teacher is the real issue. Put a cap on the students per teacher ration (say 15 students per 1 teacher) and evenly distribute the funding to every school in the US based on the number of students; and you'll see the quality of education in this country rise. Improve education and health care, the economy, technology, etc... will all follow suite.
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Being the parents of a child does not make that child your property.
My child is not the property of the government.
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You can not, and should not disadvantage your child by homeschooling him / her without credentials because you either think that you are an amazing teacher and have enough mental faculty in all subject areas to instruct your child or because you disagree with the politics / religion / theory of public education.
And you can not, and should not tell me what home schooling is or is not for my child. You're making a lot of assumptions here.
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The vast majority of home schooled children are having their education infused with either a massive amount of political or religious indoctrination.
And, that doesn't happen in traditional schools, does it? 
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As a corollary this will seriously disadvantage most of these children for the rest of their lives.
Excellent, you send your kid to public school and I'll homeschool mine. We'll see who's at the disadvantage later on.
***Note: I don't plan to homeschool my children, but I do NOT see a problem with it when it's monitored and the children are tested regularly.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Bengal
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Bengal
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I do NOT see a problem with it when it's monitored and the children are tested regularly.
This is basically what it boils down to. IMO, the debate can end here with your statement.
As long as the kids are prepared, it doesn't matter who does it, as long as it's done correctly. I am just personally against it because it wasn't the best thing for me. And as far as MY kids go.... I wouldn't dream of it! Especially in the younger years... But that's just me. You can teach your child any and everything you want, (morals, etc),but they are PEOPLE too and will ultimately make their own choices and carve their own path and values.
Birds of War
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1st String
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Being the parents of a child does not make that child your property.
My child is not the property of the government.
Granted. But without some basic rules / laws society would dip back into the stone age.
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You can not, and should not disadvantage your child by homeschooling him / her without credentials because you either think that you are an amazing teacher and have enough mental faculty in all subject areas to instruct your child or because you disagree with the politics / religion / theory of public education.
And you can not, and should not tell me what home schooling is or is not for my child. You're making a lot of assumptions here.
Home schooling your child is wrong if you are not certified and educated to do so. You are setting a child up for failure later in life by not giving them a proper education early on.
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The vast majority of home schooled children are having their education infused with either a massive amount of political or religious indoctrination.
And, that doesn't happen in traditional schools, does it?
No, it doesn't actually. Separation of church and state for one, will not give a child an over whelming amount of religious innuendo that will turn a child into an extremist Christian / Jew / Muslim / Atheist, etc...
And I've yet to meet anyone who left the public school system believing that we all should become communists / facists / anarchists. We live in a democratic republic. You can pretty much assume that kids will be taught the pros and cons of our own political system. I know I was....and I'm willing to bet everyone else who took a government class in high school was as well.
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As a corollary this will seriously disadvantage most of these children for the rest of their lives.
Excellent, you send your kid to public school and I'll homeschool mine. We'll see who's at the disadvantage later on.
The public school system is not a well oiled machine by any stretch of the imagination. And it's not the teachers, really, who are to blame. Government mandates and regulates as well as inadequete funding slow the overall progress of our public school system.
Regardless, I'd take a trained / certified educator any day of the week.
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Hall of Famer
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You are setting a child up for failure later in life by not giving them a proper education early on.
You and I are going to stop discussing this since you can't do anything but generalize and lump everyone together.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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1st String
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You are setting a child up for failure later in life by not giving them a proper education early on.
You and I are going to stop discussing this since you can't do anything but generalize and lump everyone together.
Quite the contrary. Home schooling can be a very good thing. It can also be a very bad thing.
I only ask that people that home school be educated and certified to teach.
Attempting to teach something you yourself may not comprehend will only spread ignorance.
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All Pro
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jc
I was home schooled for 3 years of high school and it helped me in my senior year at regular school (I graduate with honors which in grade/middle school I was no where near honors)and later college. And my mom was not a certified teacher. Home school students have to learn to do the work themselves without having a teacher hold you're hand every step of the way. The only thing my parents had to do was let the school district know they were home schooling me and have a certified teacher look over my tests at the end of the school year.
This California law gives me another reason to hate the state and pray for it to sink into the ocean. And anyone who criticize homeschooling apparently know nothing about it.
"Change ownership of the team, the true change we can believe in." - I made this in 2008 
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Legend
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You are setting a child up for failure later in life by not giving them a proper education early on.
You and I are going to stop discussing this since you can't do anything but generalize and lump everyone together.
Quite the contrary. Home schooling can be a very good thing. It can also be a very bad thing.
I only ask that people that home school be educated and certified to teach.
Attempting to teach something you yourself may not comprehend will only spread ignorance.
I am not a certified teacher.
I am a college graduate.
I could teach my 7 yr. old daughter at home much better than than a certified teacher can in the public school. Fact. Period. End of story.
Now, onto my feelings about home schooling. My brother in law was home schooled. He is intelligent, kind, well rounded, and the best mechanic you or anyone else has ever come across. He has 3 younger brothers, 1 older sister and 1 younger sister. All home schooled. The oldest girl is a free spirit that lives in Oregon sometimes, California right now, but also Washington, and Ohio. She's adjusted just fine.
The next oldest brother is a self employed mechanic as well. He's doing well for himself.
The other 3 are still at home. Smart, hardworking, and intelligent - I have no doubt they will do very well for themselves.
All of them taught by their mother - h.s. grad - no other education.
My biggest problem with home schooling is the kid/s miss out on the social interaction of a public or private school.
I am personally against home schooling. But trust me - even if the home schooler is not "accredited", that doesn't mean home schooling is valueless. If it works for people, then so be it.
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Legend
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Being the parents of a child does not make that child your property.
Uh, yes it does. And they are definitly not the property of the government.
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You can not, and should not disadvantage your child by homeschooling him / her without credentials because you either think that you are an amazing teacher and have enough mental faculty in all subject areas to instruct your child or because you disagree with the politics / religion / theory of public education.
That's only your opinion ... many people think they are disadvantaging their kids by actually sending them to public school. In many cases, they are probably right, and could teach their kids far better than a public school could.
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The vast majority of home schooled children are having their education infused with either a massive amount of political or religious indoctrination. As a corollary this will seriously disadvantage most of these children for the rest of their lives.
You could say the same thing about public schools.
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Bengal
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anyone who criticize homeschooling apparently know nothing about it.
I was homeschooled for 4 years, I know a little something about it.
I'm very happy that it worked well for you.
It wasn't right for me. as I said before, I got better grades in public school.
That's just me and my opinion.
Birds of War
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Legend
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What scares me is the overall attitude most people have of our education system in the US. What scares me more is how few people volunteer the time talents and $$$ to aid in the process.
What should scare you is how poorly the large amount of $$$ that is already given to the public school system is squandered with minimal returns on overall education. Private schools spend far less per child, and get far MORE education value in return.
My wife works for a public school and she sees the waste first hand. The general attitude is, "squander all the money we can just so we can show that we need all of it on the budget". And the best way to get MORE money is to let facilities or student education suffer, so they can point to it and say, "Look we need money ... if you don't give it to us, you don't love kids". 
So you will have to excuse the public when they don't feel as obligated to throw even more of thier money at the problem.
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Dawg Talker
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LOOK FOR THE UNION LABEL...GAME,SET, MATCH FOR THE TEACHER'S UNION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After years of attempting to minimize the education competition by demonizing home schooling parents as anti-social, backwards and unpartiotic members of society, the National Teacher's Unions have received a huge plus with this ruling.
Private schools are still denied voucher support as another cushion to the attempted public school monopoly and now the hands are tied of home schooler parents. Follow the poor performance of the general public school systems since the ascension of huge political clout of teacher's union's and you will see a clear relationship.
The domination of the national teacher's unions and their teacher protection programs has resulted in a steady decrease of student math, science and reading progression.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't have a problem with home schooling. There are guidelines to follow...it's not just willy-nilly teach them what you want.
I agree... my brother-in-law was home schooled and he is very out-going, very intelligent (had a full ride between his academic and athletic scholarships) and plans on home-schooling my nieces. His mother is not a certified teacher and neither is he or my sister... however, they are very involved with home schooling orgainzations in their state in order to make sure that their children stay at or above the level that they need to be at.
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#gmstrong
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My wife wants us to send our kids to private school, because she hates the "secondary agenda" that some public schools seem to have ...
Private schools dont have a " secondary agenda" ?
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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What scares me is the overall attitude most people have of our education system in the US. What scares me more is how few people volunteer the time talents and $$$ to aid in the process.
What should scare you is how poorly the large amount of $$$ that is already given to the public school system is squandered with minimal returns on overall education. Private schools spend far less per child, and get far MORE education value in return.
My wife works for a public school and she sees the waste first hand. The general attitude is, "squander all the money we can just so we can show that we need all of it on the budget". And the best way to get MORE money is to let facilities or student education suffer, so they can point to it and say, "Look we need money ... if you don't give it to us, you don't love kids".
So you will have to excuse the public when they don't feel as obligated to throw even more of thier money at the problem.
Exactly right! And it should scare people more than some lady without a degree homeschooling her kids! Which by the way is very closely watched!
And it's not like the system we have is churning out Einsteins left and right!
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My wife wants us to send our kids to private school, because she hates the "secondary agenda" that some public schools seem to have ...
Private schools dont have a " secondary agenda" ?
KING
It's possible they do ... but at least we have a choice not to send our kids there.
... whereas now, anybody who can't afford it MUST send thier kids to public school.
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My wife wants us to send our kids to private school, because she hates the "secondary agenda" that some public schools seem to have ...
Private schools dont have a " secondary agenda" ?
KING
It's possible they do ... but at least we have a choice not to send our kids there.
Ok, I was just asking. So as long as you agree with the schools secondary agenda I guess it is cool.
My personal belief is that there is nothing wrong with public schools, it is the parents involvement at home. The kids whos parents give a damn and assist in their childs education do well, the ones who parents think their school should be the kids sole source of education dont.
Back to the original statement though, my kids go to public schools and I have never had anyone with a "secondary agenda" attempting to teach them any kind of morals (except for normal mannners type stuff), when my daughter was going to a private parochial preschool she was taught a lot more religious morals type stuff. So I think the "secondary agenda" exists much more in a private school. JMO
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Exel I read your post and it made me think. Would you agree that parents who send a kid to a private school might.....A) be wealthier in general. B) obviously care about thier children and the education they recieve?
As the post above said I think it's mainly about the parents. So if the parents care and happen to sometimes have more money doesn't that translate to the fact the kids SHOULD do better in school?
Just a thought.
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My wife works for a public school and she sees the waste first hand. The general attitude is, "squander all the money we can just so we can show that we need all of it on the budget". And the best way to get MORE money is to let facilities or student education suffer, so they can point to it and say, "Look we need money ... if you don't give it to us, you don't love kids".
The general attitude, huh? 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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The general attitude, huh?
Would you like to share something that reflects that isn't the case? My wife works at a private school and sees this first hand. I'm not talking about the teachers, I'm talking about the administrators. They don't care about efficiency, they care about spending whatever the budget is, so they can justify that amount next year.
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Both parents are retired teacher/educators from California... Teacher, principal, and district administrator, superintendant. They both have individually 35+ years of service each... I have a good working knowledge of the challenges, pros and cons...
Why so narrow a reply on only the $$$...? That’s part of the bigger issue and problem... Didn't I write time, talent and $$$? Last on my list and first on yours and others... Don't want to give more money? then step up and go volunteer or come up with some solutions. Take some action, use you knowledge to help make some positive change... I believe I wrote something about investing properly or correctly, right?
Education is not an issue we can take a quick pee on and claim that the fire is out...
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Two things that stuck out from this article... Quote:
"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue.
I thought the purpose of the educational system was to educate, not indoctrinate.
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Heimov said her organization's chief concern was not the quality of the children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."
While I understand what Heimov is saying, given that she works in children's law, could this be the TRUE reason the state wants every kid in school, or do they get a bigger monitary gain with higher public school enrollment? Isn't it our job as parents to insure our children's safety?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Two things that stuck out from this article...
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"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue.
I thought the purpose of the educational system was to educate, not endoctrinate.
I've always felt that there was a certain degree of indoctrination in our education systems.
It's not something handed down directly by a teacher or a principal or even a school system, but rather a part of the machine as a whole. Students are punished for arriving late, mouthing off and all sorts of infractions, but will never see a lick of punishment for failing to do what they are there to do -- learn. A kid could quietly and politely scrape by with straight D's for his entire high school career with absolutely no punishment. Yet if he's late, or doesn't follow a teacher's orders, or doesn't stand for the pledge...
The important thing seems to be doing what you're told and be where you're supposed to be, not what you've learned. A sort of indoctrination into towing the company line with your eyes on the ground. If you fall in order with the rest of the machine and get over 60% of the answers right, you've passed.
I bet a lot of people think that's nuts but it's JMHO.
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Why so narrow a reply on only the $$$...? That’s part of the bigger issue and problem...
Because money is the biggest part of it. Like I said, the biggest problem with the way the public school system works is that it works the exact opposite of how anything else works. In a business you try to get the most out of your money, maximize your results to provide a superior product, which in turn, generates more customers and gets you more money. In public school, you get more money when you provide poor service ... because you can use that as justification for needing more money. There's no incentive to do better, because if you can provide good education and come in under budget ... then they cut your budget because they don't think you need it.
And if you answer is, "Well we just need more volunteers" ... are you really riding the success of schools on that? The original thread is about the government saying that parents aren't fit enough to home school their kids ... the government needs to do it instead. Now, you're saying that these same people need to volunteer more to make the public school system satisfactory?
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Didn't I write time, talent and $$$? Last on my list and first on yours and others... Don't want to give more money? then step up and go volunteer or come up with some solutions.
I've actually been a substitute teacher and a tutor for the school system, which is why I know a little bit about this myself. You want a solution? Get rid of the teachers union. I was a sub for quite a few teachers that had tenure and didn't seem to care much about the quality of what they taught. They were pretty easy to spot too ... usually the ones without any lesson plans laid out for the substitute and the rowdiest classes. You would ask what the teacher was like, and it was almost always, "They've been a teacher here for a long time".
You want another solution? Take steps towards making the school system more privatized. Of course none of the two solutions are going to fly over very well with those running the system.
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Education is not an issue we can take a quick pee on and claim that the fire is out...
I agree ... but it should also be a case of "throw more money at it" and hope it gets better.
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If you are so strongly opposed to allowing your children to learn either side of the argument, then you are only setting them up for failure. Teaching one and blatantly discouraging the other will stunt your child's ability to *gasp* choose their own spiritual / religious path in life. Allow them to choose what to believe...don't make them believe it.
This is such a garbage argument, I had to revisit it. If you truely belived this "teach them both sides and let the child decide", then you would have no problem with sending ALL kids to "Sunday school" and letting them get both sides of the story. Of course ... this argument only applies to kids who's parents are Christian. If they are athiest, then they don't need the other side.
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