|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
general reply to all of you..... am i allowed to help my kids with their homework still?  i'm not certified in any way to teach them anything.... i have been helping them, and they are all doing well in school.. i've read this whole thread and it seems to me that this is another great example of the extreme cases messing up the whole....home schooling in and of itself is a good thing....so is public education...but there are bad apples in both....same with private schools... i've constantly seen student to teach ratio as the big thing that needs fixing...that and standardized testing....well you can't get any better than one on one.....and if home schoolers test well on the stupid standardized tests like everyone else than whats the problem? there is one thing that should matter in all of this.....the results...thats it....nothing else... as a parent...which i am not certified as....i have one thing to fall back on....what i was taught by my parents....i'm sure they weren't certified either.... from helping my kids with homework, i've found that only 2 things are really necessasary....patience....and the ablity for me to admit i don't know.... patience is tough....its sometimes very difficult to step back and try another way...i was good at math....i have to remember that my child may not be... often times the directions that the kids bring home suck....i mean i know how to do long division....but i don't really know how to teach it.... as far as knowing what i don't know, this is easily solvable by looking at a textbook, or using the internet...i've helped my children many times, and the results speak for themselves... my one daughter refuses to ask for help with math....and she struggles....all my other children ask, and they get A's learning requires desire....i've learned how to fix cars, do electrical, plumbing, carpentry, roofing, flooring, fix computers, about offensive and defensive football schemes...and a whole slew of other things, and i've learned none of it from accredited teachers... i've also fixed things that so-called professionals screwed up... results are what matters....either you can do something or you learn...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Quote:
What I find more disturbing is the numbers at which kids think they could quit school and just get their GED and be fine. It's the easy way out.
I am glad they have that program. They didn't have a Good Enough Degree at one time.
Sometimes people make mistakes and drop out only to discover their mistake some years later. It just isn't realistic to have a 22 year old go back and sit in a class with 16 year olds for many reasons.
There has to be something in place to allow these people to get on track..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
Quote:
What I find more disturbing is the numbers at which kids think they could quit school and just get their GED and be fine. It's the easy way out.
I agree. I am also one of those kids who quit school and got a GED. I did it because of problems I was having at home, not because of school. It is a very important thing to have out there because once you do quit school it is not easy to go back and take night classes to get your diploma.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
Quote:
What I find more disturbing is the numbers at which kids think they could quit school and just get their GED and be fine.
It worked out Ok for me 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Funny, all of you only focused on the first sentence, seem to have ignored the rest.
Yes, BP, the GED is a good thing to have available. My point is the kids who quit for the sake of "pfft, I don't need school, I can get my GED, it's as good as a diploma, then I will have lots of free time and can go get that VP job for 400k a year when I'm ready"
For many, it seems quitting was made too easy. It's a helluva lot easier to quit than to ride it out. Some people have legitimate reasons, but I would bet the majority just do it because it's easier than getting up for school.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
I was just pointing out why GEDs are good imo. I have no problem with your post, and think you are right.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Most on here are defending the right of those who want to home school, not actually doing it themselves. As far as blaming the government, why not? Public education is very dysfunctional in many parts of the country and government has much to do with it.
Well..............a lot of people don't seem to be following what I am trying to say. Wonder if that is because they don't want to hear it or because I am not communicating it properly? I don't know, but I didn't think you would be one of them. *L*
PDawg, I love teaching. Let me provide a little story that may help.
I was in business for years and made $97,000 dollars a year in 1991. But, I wasn't happy. Felt like a shark. I decided it was more important to help other people than myself. My wife and I discussed it long and hard and we decided that I we would give up that money and help the world. Yeah, it sounds corny, but it has to start somewhere, and I decided it started w/me. That's actually us, because if my wife would not have approved, I would have stayed in business.
So, I was working full-time, had two children that weren't even in school yet, and went to school at night and all day Saturday. I continued this year-round, even in the summers. I could not take classes on-line, like people can now.
I graduated and got a job making in the mid-20s. That's a far cry from close to six figures. But, I am happy w/what I do. I help kids. I help society. I don't use people. I make the world a better place. And if you know the poem about the man in the mirror.........I think you will understand why I am happy.
The government? LOL..........I hate some of the laws they have. I despise politics. I loathe people who have no clue about the front lines of any business, industry, or public service trying to dictate what needs to be done. No Child Left Behind is one of the most ridiculous laws ever passed. I've seen a seventh grader who could not read the world "was," or add 2 plus 1. No, I am not making that up. That kid needs to be taught life skills. He does not need to pass a state test.
And here is a killer. The End of Grade or End of Course tests are not the same from state to state. Can you guess why?
But dude...........all of that is out of my control. It drove me nuts for years. However, I have no power to change that. I do know what I can change. I CAN make a difference in the lives of young people. I can help mold their lives. I can help make them productive citizens. I can care about them even when their own parents don't. I am a difference maker. And despite all of the insults and put-downs from most members of our society...........I am damn proud of what I do for a living. I help people. I give and I don't take!
No amount of money can replace the gift I get every day of knowing that what I do is good for the world. And when I die, I will have no regrets.
One more thing if you are still reading. I am not bashing people who want to home-school their children. What I am saying is that I think if you want to teach, you should get a degree. Yes, I understand that many members of society don't respect educators, but I have a great respect for education. In fact, I place its importance close to the top of the list. Education is a profession and no one can tell me otherwise. If you want to teach.....get a degree! That's not so much to ask when we are speaking of our children's future.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Vers, a very good post. While I agree with your sentiments, part of me won't allow myself to fully concur. I've known a great number of degreeless individuals I would gladly have teach my childen. I know many people with degrees I'd fear sending my children to. I understand your point, but you're inviting a great deal of people who would be excellent teachers to be excluded because of finances or time or circumstance. I myself have two degrees, but I couldn't teach a lick of math or science.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Phil, first off thanks for the compliment.
We both know that complex issues such as this one will never have an easy answer. There are no sure things. There are no certainties. It's a muddled proposition that has perplexed many great thinkers. In short, our education system is a mess.
Phil, what I am saying is that if you are truly passionate about something......if you believe in something so strongly...........if you want to make a difference in the lives of children, or simply your own child.............You do what it takes to make it so. Getting a degree is easier than it has ever been before.
If a parent truly believes that he/she can do a better job than the schools can, then they should be willing to prepare themselves as best they can. I am NOT saying that parents shouldn't home school their children. I am saying they should be professionally trained. It would eliminate those who use and abuse the system, such as those I mentioned earlier in the thread, and it would validate those who really believe they can educate their children better than public schools.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Vers, I'm very happy that you love teaching! It was my major in college, but never panned out.
Anyway, would you be able to tell me why a parent needs a teaching degree to teach their own children? Specifically, what skills the degree would give a parent that they don't already have?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874 |
j/c I haven't weighed in on this...but I do have a little something to say, I guess. I had this woman working for me (I was the supervisor of the department) and she started spouting this idea of her and her husband (a guy who hadn't worked in YEARS...collecting disability - headaches you know -) wanted to home school their son (who was constantly getting in trouble in school, suspensions, etc). Now, I knew the husband from company picnics and Christmas parties and I knew the woman from YEARS of employment in my department (I stupidly hired her). THESE PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE TEACHING THE FAMILY PET. I can recall her loudly stating in the department how her and her husband don't worry about tomorrow but instead live for today. "Life's too short." She'd say. And you couldn't explain to her that that might not be the best way to go about it because she'd FLIP OUT ON YA. (some people in the department called her Sybil, others just called her a wack-job). People can't be allowed to just up and decide that they're going to home school their kids. Actually, it's my opinion that not all people should be allowed TO HAVE KIDS. (but that's a whole 'nother issue) Now granted, these people are an extreme case...but there are lots of less extreme cases. Heck, I think that there are more than a few teachers out there that shouldn't be allowed to teach.  but it's not a perfect world. To conclude about this woman that worked for me: (who every so often was out of work on medical leave, stress or whatever she could get away with - I accidentally heard her telling a fellow employee that she was looking for Dr. SummerOff and that her goal was to collect for a living....and that us guys didn't mind work but that she didn't like it.....she's obviously cookooo!) The privately owned company was sold to an Ohio Corporation (of all places right?). The retirement monies that we accumed (gracious yearly gifts from the company owner) was rolled into a 401K account - which we could now get at or borrow against should we want to. Well, the 'live for today' family hit that hard and bought a pool and who knows what else. I no longer work for the company but have some friends there......the 'live for today' family has lost their house and had to move into an apartment. The husband has finally got off his but and got a job (in a junkyard I believe), the woman is still working in the department...befuddling her fellow employees. There's no doubt in my mind that there needs to be rules (proof of accumed intelligence - or presumed intelligence) as to who can home school.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
No Michelle, and no need to be facisious, but "out of the twenty or so people I know" that were home schooled, that's pretty much the results of "what I saw". I don't know two million people who were home schooled. Do you?  But believe me, I have talked to MANY teachers! Even now I talk with my grandchildrens teachers, principals and members of the school board. I have the time to dedicate to it and I feel it's a very wise investment of my time. And as you've noted....."What makes them more qualified"? Well, let me tell you. My oldest grandaughter has a teacher for three of her classes. The teachers name is Mrs. Sims. She not only has a teaching degree, but also a doctorate degree. She has her principals license and teaches "out of passion" rather than need. Because obviously with her qualifications, being a teacher is NOT her only option. I have one grandson with several disorders and a grandaughter who also has had "learning disabilities". I have worked hand in hand with my grandaughters school psychologist and teachers who specialise in working with such students. Long story short, she has gone from C's D's and F's in special education classes, to making B's and C's in regular classes with a part time tutor. We're shooting for having her in regular classes next year without a tutor. So far, we are on course to accomplish that. So yes Michelle, I have first hand experience at knowing EXACTLY why they're "more equipped" to teach our children. Maybe not an "individual teacher" per say, but the entire support system and staff on hand to deal with such issues. I'm not saying that home schooling is wrong for all kids. But in many cases, it IS used as a method to program, insulate and indoctrinate their children. Which I do NOT condone.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
I don't know two million people who were home schooled. Do you?
No, that's why I don't make assumptions about homeschooling.
Quote:
But believe me, I have talked to MANY teachers! Even now I talk with my grandchildrens teachers, principals and members of the school board. I have the time to dedicate to it and I feel it's a very wise investment of my time.
That's great! Kids need all the adult support and love they can get!
Quote:
Well, let me tell you. My oldest grandaughter has a teacher for three of her classes. The teachers name is Mrs. Sims. She not only has a teaching degree, but also a doctorate degree. She has her principals license and teaches "out of passion" rather than need. Because obviously with her qualifications, being a teacher is NOT her only option.
She sounds like a very well educated person, but that still doesn't answer my question. What exact parts of her degrees give her more credibility to teach?
Quote:
I have one grandson with several disorders and a grandaughter who also has had "learning disabilities". I have worked hand in hand with my grandaughters school psychologist and teachers who specialise in working with such students.
Long story short, she has gone from C's D's and F's in special education classes, to making B's and C's in regular classes with a part time tutor. We're shooting for having her in regular classes next year without a tutor. So far, we are on course to accomplish that.
Glad to hear she's doing so well! Again, though, what's this have to do with public school vs. homeschooling?
Quote:
So yes Michelle, I have first hand experience at knowing EXACTLY why they're "more equipped" to teach our children. Maybe not an "individual teacher" per say, but the entire support system and staff on hand to deal with such issues.
I still haven't heard reasons. What am I missing?
Quote:
I'm not saying that home schooling is wrong for all kids. But in many cases, it IS used as a method to program, insulate and indoctrinate their children. Which I do NOT condone.
I couldn't agree more.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
Thanks for the clarification and life story. I know you don't like to share a lot of personal info on here and I find your story heartwarming. As you know I admire and respect those in education. My family is full of teachers and I know many others because my wife is a teacher. It would be better if all home schoolers were trained in some manner but I don't think it should be mandated in the way Cal. wants to. My sister who has home schooled has taken courses on teaching methods, as well as courses on subjects she has taught. I know there are programs out there that spell out how to teach children for home schoolers. I know not all people use these tools and that is a shame. Some don't even teach their kids, they opt for computer courses that are do it yourself.  I would never home school my kids, and told my sister I thought she was making a mistake for home schooling my nephews. I do think home schooling is the best option for some in this country, and making someone get a four year degree to home school is not the right answer.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
I would never home school my kids, and told my sister I thought she was making a mistake for home schooling my nephews.
How very kind of you.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
She is my sister. I owe her the truth. You may not like it, but she did. Some people actually value my input and ask for it.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
How's it going for her family? And, I don't care WHO it is, I wouldn't tell someone else I thought what they were doing was wrong for their kid. Short of abuse, of course. We'll just agree to disagree with that one.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,790 |
She just sent her youngest to public school last week and her oldest will be starting public school in the fall. The older child is very advanced, while the younger is doing well. There are reasons why she is now sending them to school that isn't my business to share.
I know the reason she decided to home school her kids, as well as why I thought she shouldn't. If my sister is going to ask for my opinion on something, I'm not going to lie to her.
I have kids of my own and realize that I make mistakes. I am quite happy to get input from those that know me and my kids if they see something I'm doing that might not be what's best for my children.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Quote:
Quote:
I don't know two million people who were home schooled. Do you?
No, that's why I don't make assumptions about homeschooling.
And neither do I. Which is why I feel that for "parents qualified to teach" that home schooling should be an option. And I base my opinion on cases I "know of first hand" rather than the ones that I don't.
Quote:
Quote:
Well, let me tell you. My oldest grandaughter has a teacher for three of her classes. The teachers name is Mrs. Sims. She not only has a teaching degree, but also a doctorate degree. She has her principals license and teaches "out of passion" rather than need. Because obviously with her qualifications, being a teacher is NOT her only option.
She sounds like a very well educated person, but that still doesn't answer my question. What exact parts of her degrees give her more credibility to teach?
Well, in this case, after meeting her, I can name several. But to keep things "basic" I would say that it's the very same reason doctors have "more credability" to operate than you or I do. They have went into a professional field and have been well educated in their specialised field. I mean that is the basic concept of going to college, getting degrees and specialising (majoring) in your specialised field isn't it? To be "more prepared and equipped than your average person" in your specialised field????
So are you saying that you seem to have no problem in accepting the fact that doctors, nurses, engineers, etc... should be well educated and that having degrees makes THEM "more qualified" to operate, diagnose diseases, make sure our bridges are structuraly sound, yet "dismiss our teachers" education and specialisation?
I believe you are selling teachers short. That you give FULL credit for the need and desire for your surgeon to be well educated and a specialist, yet believe that our children don't deserve the very same credentials for their education. I mean you don't believe that a four year degree in education makes you "more qualified to educate" than most factory workers?
Do you believe they twittle their thumbs for four years, or actually learn to educate students for four years? It seems you feel damn near anybody can educate a child, right? So why not get a Vet to do your next major surgery?
Sorry, but that's how you're coming across.
Quote:
Quote:
I have one grandson with several disorders and a grandaughter who also has had "learning disabilities". I have worked hand in hand with my grandaughters school psychologist and teachers who specialise in working with such students.
Long story short, she has gone from C's D's and F's in special education classes, to making B's and C's in regular classes with a part time tutor. We're shooting for having her in regular classes next year without a tutor. So far, we are on course to accomplish that.
Glad to hear she's doing so well! Again, though, what's this have to do with public school vs. homeschooling?
It's a very simple concept. There are a "network of professionals" at a school. Teachers, psychologists, a myrid of testing available and many options for children with learning disabilities. You can say what you will, but it's very hard for MANY parents to admit or want to look at the fact that "their child is having learning problems."
There's NO WAY that I could have diagnosed and addressed these problems in such an accurate and efficiant manner without such professionals to help in this process. All of this is available at "schools".
My one grandaughter is going to a high school next year called DECA. Which works in partnership with Sinclair Community College. She will attend DECA for four years. However, she can work at her own pace. So, if she can graduate high school in two and a half or three years, she can take college courses at DECA (for free) and all of those credits can be transfered to Sinclair. Which could help save a TON of money towards her college. This is yet another example of programs a child can benifit from through public schools, that can not be achieved through home schooling.
Quote:
Quote:
So yes Michelle, I have first hand experience at knowing EXACTLY why they're "more equipped" to teach our children. Maybe not an "individual teacher" per say, but the entire support system and staff on hand to deal with such issues.
I still haven't heard reasons. What am I missing?
It appears, everything. I have shown you how it takes "more than just a teacher" in many cases to insure a child get the proper education. I have shown an entire "staff or professionals" that work together to get this job done. You won't have this "staff" at home. I have shown how much like a doctor,lawyer or any other professional, we want the best to represent us and work for us............................Accept for teachers, right? In which case, it really makes little difference, right? That basicly, they're wasting four years of college to "learn to be professional teachers" because hey, damn near ANYBODY can do that, right?
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not saying that home schooling is wrong for all kids. But in many cases, it IS used as a method to program, insulate and indoctrinate their children. Which I do NOT condone.
I couldn't agree more.
Well, at least there's ONE POINT on this topic we agree on.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Quote:
If my sister is going to ask for my opinion on something, I'm not going to lie to her.
I am the oldest of five kids and a grandpa. I get asked for my opinion a LOT! ( And no, I don't know why )
But much like you, I feel I owe them the truth. They don't always like my answers, but they respect me for my honestly and can usually find at least a "part of it" helpfull.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
That's all well and good but there are lots of people giving unwarranted and unwanted parenting advice to their families and friends. Some people may THINK it's welcome advice, but often it is anything but.  I'd never come out and tell somebody that something they were thinking of doing parent wise was dead wrong unless, as was said, it was some kind of abuse. I'd give an opinion if asked but, not go as far as telling them it was completely wrong of them. They are the parent, it's their call and they should know best. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Well, I'm usually giving advice moreso to my children and grandchildren. And only when asked. Quote:
They are the parent, it's their call and they should know best.
And since "I AM the parent and even grandparent" in the vast majority of these cases, I wholeheartidly agree with you. I know what's best.
With my siblings, I kind of use a qualifier.................
"Well, if it were me, from what I know about the subject, I believe................"
Which allows me to give them an honest answer, yet lets them know up front that it's my opinion from my point of view. And it must be effective, because they all ask a lot.
In all honesty, I doubt that I would keep asking the opinion of someone if I didn't want it, value it and respect it.
But hey, that's just me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
So are you saying that you seem to have no problem in accepting the fact that doctors, nurses, engineers, etc... should be well educated and that having degrees makes THEM "more qualified" to operate, diagnose diseases, make sure our bridges are structuraly sound, yet "dismiss our teachers" education and specialisation?
Not once have I dismissed teachers and the job they do. What I have asked is what part of their education makes them a better teacher than a parent. It seems nobody can answer this question. And, I'm not comparing teachers to auto mechanics, doctors, veterinarians, etc., like some others on here. I'm quite sure there are people in every field who are "qualified" to do what they do but shouldn't be doing it because they suck at it.
Quote:
It seems you feel damn near anybody can educate a child, right?
I never said just anybody can or should educate a child! I don't believe that for a millisecond. On that note, though, even some teachers shouldn't be doing it. It works both ways.
Quote:
IYou can say what you will, but it's very hard for MANY parents to admit or want to look at the fact that "their child is having learning problems."
That's true...but that would be the case whether they go to school or homeschool. And, on the flip side, there are cases of parents that have discoverd learning issues that schools have never noticed. Again, works both ways.
Quote:
This is yet another example of programs a child can benifit from through public schools, that can not be achieved through home schooling.
There are plenty of programs for homescholars as well, Pit. Many of them are the same programs offered to public school students (usually depends on the district).
Quote:
Quote:
I still haven't heard reasons. What am I missing?
It appears, everything.
Guess I'm too stupid to homeschool, then. 
Quote:
I have shown you how it takes "more than just a teacher" in many cases to insure a child get the proper education. I have shown an entire "staff or professionals" that work together to get this job done. You won't have this "staff" at home.
Uhhh, sure you do. And, how many public school kids fall through the cracks? My guess is a hulluva lot. They also get "labeled" with "disabilities" that don't really exist. It's happened in our family.
Quote:
I have shown how much like a doctor,lawyer or any other professional, we want the best to represent us and work for us............................Accept for teachers, right? In which case, it really makes little difference, right? That basicly, they're wasting four years of college to "learn to be professional teachers" because hey, damn near ANYBODY can do that, right?
You're putting words in my mouth yet again. I'm asking a simple question and nobody is answering it.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
I'm not sure why you took that personally, but, oh well.  My comment was in general. I see and hear lots of grandparents, family members, friends, etc., giving unwanted advice and in their eyes the people just love it.....only they don't. I wasn't talking about you or your family at all, just stating a parent should know best, sometimes they even do better than the grandparents.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
And since "I AM the parent and even grandparent" in the vast majority of these cases, I wholeheartidly agree with you. I know what's best.
If our parents try to preach to us about raising our kids, all hell will break loose, trust me. They are free to use the qualifier you use with your siblings, but they may NOT tell us what to do or how to do it. EVER. Our kids will not be THEIR kids. They had their shot.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502 |
It has been answered... Are you saying that no one who replied here didn't mention, explain, infer or insinuate that teachers have special training, course loads, specialties, credential requirements, on going and continuing education requirements? You didn't pick up from any of this discussion that teachers are professionals and are educated as such? You still won't acknowledge that teachers are professionals. This is insulting... And I not a teacher... yet you include mechanics with Dr's and lawyers??? Come on... Who are you trying to kid? Yourself maybe... Yet you play ignorant or just coy in assuming that they don't have a required skill set, pre-requisite and requisite requirements for an education or teaching degree? Ever heard the terms; teacher, assistant professors, professors, deans, schoolteachers, lecturer, instructor, tutor, trainer, coach, mentor, academic, chair, scholastic, researcher, theoretical… Among others? Don't be so condescending as to assume that some of us don’t realize that you are not pro public or private school minded... You don't have to be home school educated to know that... Many people shouldn't be doing many things... but yet they do... Blaming teaching professionals in this instance or any professional from any professional industry should not be the focus of the root problem. Nor does it improve a specific situation... Home schooling isn't the answer... It's an option for some... But those who do home school should be held to the same standard of care and responsibility as those who are trained professional educators... To deny this or ignore this or even not to acknowledge this is idiocy... IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750 |
I'm just  my behind off at everybody saying to teach you need to be certified. It's funny because those same people would cry foul if their kids were taken until the became "certified" parents. Parents are a childs most influential teacher.
Go Irish!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Good gawd Boise, a bit melodramatic? Let's just put teachers right next to rocket scientists and brain surgeons why don't we? It's a skill, like many others, that you can learn through various other means. And just because you DO go to college for 4 years and learn it, doesn't mean you're necessarily equiped to handle the job anyway. There are plenty of certified teachers that are bad teachers, there are plenty of non-certified teachers who are excellent teachers. You act as if this is nuclear science. And as you've been doing throughout the thread ... you are completely missing the point. This has NOTHING to do with the certified teachers. For the fifth time, PLEASE QUIT ACTING LIKE WE WANT TO ABOLISH PUBLIC EDUCATION. This is about the non-certified parents teaching thier OWN CHILDREN. If thier kids are passing standardized tests, then apparently they are doing a comparable job to the "professionals". I asked it before, and I'll ask it again ... please name me just ONE other profession where you can perform a service for your OWN HOUSEHOLD, have it meet a certain quality level, and still get in trouble because you aren't "certified". The only one we could come up with was "lawyer", and even that has been a recent debate, and is still being decided by the supreme court. Every other certified job out there you can do in your own house, with your own family, and as long as you meet a certain quality level, you are well within your rights to do it: Construction, Electrical, Plumbing, Nursing, Auto Mechanic, Message Therapist, Hair Dresser, etc ... And since those aren't four year degree fields, and you'll likely get offended ... Computer Programmer, Mechanical Engineer, CPA, Counselor, Interior Designer, and even Doctor. The only who's being condesending is you ... implying that anyone who agrees with homeschooling is an idiot. Then you keep acting as if this is a thread about public school. It's not ... it's about the personal rights of a parent to educate thier own children as they see fit. You say those that home school should be held to the same standard as the professionals ... that's what the standardized testing is for.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
I'm just my behind off at everybody saying to teach you need to be certified. It's funny because those same people would cry foul if their kids were taken until the became "certified" parents. Parents are a childs most influential teacher.
I said it before ... Keep everything else the same, including the curriculum but remove all the current teachers and replace them with accredited nuns. Suddenly everyone that's for this would probably be against it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
It has been answered... Are you saying that no one who replied here didn't mention, explain, infer or insinuate that teachers have special training, course loads, specialties, credential requirements, on going and continuing education requirements? You didn't pick up from any of this discussion that teachers are professionals and are educated as such?
Sure, all of that has been said many times in this thread. It still doesn't answer my question. Perhaps I need to rephrase the question. I'll work on it.
Quote:
You still won't acknowledge that teachers are professionals. This is insulting... And I not a teacher... yet you include mechanics with Dr's and lawyers??? Come on... Who are you trying to kid? Yourself maybe...
Where have I said that teachers aren't professionals? Please point that out to me.
Quote:
Yet you play ignorant or just coy in assuming that they don't have a required skill set, pre-requisite and requisite requirements for an education or teaching degree?
Now you resort to personal attacks...nice. Of course there are requisite requirement for a teaching degree...just like every other degree.
Quote:
Ever heard the terms; teacher, assistant professors, professors, deans, schoolteachers, lecturer, instructor, tutor, trainer, coach, mentor, academic, chair, scholastic, researcher, theoretical… Among others?
Of course I've heard those terms. And this has to do with what exactly?
Quote:
Don't be so condescending as to assume that some of us don’t realize that you are not pro public or private school minded... You don't have to be home school educated to know that...
You don't know what I am, actually. Nobody here does. If you check my second or third post in this thread you will see what I said about the possibility of homeschooling.
Quote:
Many people shouldn't be doing many things... but yet they do...
Agreed.
Quote:
Blaming teaching professionals in this instance or any professional from any professional industry should not be the focus of the root problem.
Who blamed teachers for anything? And, what exactly is the "root problem" you speak of?
Quote:
But those who do home school should be held to the same standard of care and responsibility as those who are trained professional educators... To deny this or ignore this or even not to acknowledge this is idiocy... IMO.
Again with the ego. At least I have admitted through this thread that it's not up to me to say what is better for other people. I can't, shouldn't, and wouldn't tell you how to operate your family. It seems as though most here think that's okay to do, however. What I will say is that I feel that those who are trained professional educators should be held to the same standard of care and responsibility for my children as I would have.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
It's a skill, like many others, that you can learn through various other means. And just because you DO go to college for 4 years and learn it, doesn't mean you're necessarily equiped to handle the job anyway. There are plenty of certified teachers that are bad teachers, there are plenty of non-certified teachers who are excellent teachers. You act as if this is nuclear science.
I find it humerous that in a thread not far from this one.. ... there is a story of a physics teacher who seems to be very popular with his students and seems to get his message across better than most teachers... and why is that? Because he doesn't teach the same way everybody else does.... You know, like the other couple hundred thousands accredited teachers...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Oh, I didn't "take it personaly". And as I've said, I don't "volunteer advice" to anyone. Actually, I don't really like giving advice when asked. But it's hard not to share your experiences and feelings when your children or siblings "ask for it". And as I stated, I NEVER say "This is what you should do." But I usually tell them of my experience and "my feelings" on the matter when asked. But I never second guess their decisions irregardless of wheather they take my advice or not. Well, that is up until the time they call and say, "Dad, I should have listenned to you." At which time I just can't resist saying, "You know, that's about the hundreth time I've heard you say that. When are you going to learn?"
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Not true at ALL DC. He just happenned to "grab a headline".
There are MANY teachers who use different methods to teach. Much like coaching, different approaches work, but each individual teacher must work out the approach that works "best for them".
I had a LOT of teachers that used different teaching methods. Most were VERY effective. One such teacher was Col. Dean Hess. He wrote the book Battle Hymn. It was made into a movie. He taught history. I HATED history with all of the dates and such!
But somehow, this "story telling teacher" made it so interesting that I looked forward to his class every day and aced his course!
I had a sixth grade English teacher, Mr. Henderson, who made "contracts" for your grades. Combing the school books with elective projects to recieve your grade. I loved to write and was very interested in "Mass Media" (which I took later in high school). This one man, caused me to have a much needed inspiration in this subject.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea. MANY of my teachers were innovative. They dedicated their days, evenings (grading papers and making projects) and sincerly cared about their students.
You may HATE the sying, but it's true........."It takes a village to raise a child".
You've even made refrance to it yourself. Remember? You stated that when you were growing up, if you did something wrong down the block, it didn't take long to get back to your parents.
In a school, you have several educaters "trained in their specialty" to teach. I feel that it's a sad day when people dismiss the training these professionals have and try to make it a "rookie home project".
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
You may HATE the sying, but it's true........."It takes a village to raise a child".
Yes I hate the saying... but I find truth in it. Where I would disagree with some on the saying is that I feel the parent should have almost absolute control over who is allowed in the village.
Quote:
In a school, you have several educaters "trained in their specialty" to teach. I feel that it's a sad day when people dismiss the training these professionals have and try to make it a "rookie home project".
Perhaps it is a sad day... Perhaps these children will miss an opportunity... Perhaps not. The question, going back to the top of page 1, is not do you think home schooling is a good idea or not.... the question is, does the state have a right to mandate whether you or me or anybody else is ALLOWED to home school our own kids.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
We all had good teachers and bad teachers growing up, I'm not sure discussing that proves anything on this subject. I will say this, in looking at the information regarding homeschooled children vs. public schooled, it looks like those rookies are doing a darn good job against those professionals. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
Quote:
You may HATE the sying, but it's true........."It takes a village to raise a child".
Yes I hate the saying... but I find truth in it. Where I would disagree with some on the saying is that I feel the parent should have almost absolute control over who is allowed in the village.
The saying also doesn't say, "it takes an accredited village". Lots of home schooling parents use other resources and people available to them to diversify their children's learning.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
So here's a question.. so you send your kid to the public school and the kid is a bit of a distraction.. and the accredited school teachers and the degree toting school psychologist say that your child MUST be medicated with Ritlin or some other mood altering drug before they are allowed back, no other kind of behavior modification, diet change, or counseling is acceptable.. they have got to be medicated... Do you rush out for a prescription?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
No, I homeschool while they play hardball with me for 18 years. Woohoo! LOOPHOLE!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Quote:
I will say this, in looking at the information regarding homeschooled children vs. public schooled, it looks like those rookies are doing a darn good job against those professionals.
Lots of things "look good on paper". However, over the course of a lifetime in "the real world", I feel the outcome may become more muddled.
And I'm not saying that "some parents lack the resources" to home school their children. But I would say the vast majority of parents lack the expertice, tools and necassary training to do so.
I do believe that parents "teach" in all cases.( At least the ones who give a damn) I know my mom and dad did.
I was taught not to blindly accept the status quo. Not to blindly trust authority. To believe in and uphold the Constitution. To believe in a higher power. To not do anything half assed. Taught that if my instincts tell me something isn't quite kosher, delve into it and see if their are valid reasons for your suspicions. And be organised and punctual damn it! (dad was a Mstr. Sgnt.)
Many things were taught to me by my parents. But they did leave the educationj process for the most part, to professionals they "were willing to admit" were more skilled and better trained to do so. Luckily they did not permit their ego to interfere with common sense.
You see, I was in choir, the drama club, sports,the debating team, which helped me a great deal in social skills, public speaking, working with and as a team.
So yes, it's "possible" to home school your children. But ONE of the parents MUST make it a FULL TIME job to be "the educator" in order for all of these things to be available to home schooled children IMO.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
sorry, as a non-accredited person any education you give them isn't valid and the state won't recognize it... and as a person who refuses to bow to their professional expertise regarding the treatment of behavior issues regarding your child, they aren't allowed in the public school... now what?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum California bans uncertified
homeschooling
|
|
