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So here's a question.. so you send your kid to the public school and the kid is a bit of a distraction.. and the accredited school teachers and the degree toting school psychologist say that your child MUST be medicated with Ritlin or some other mood altering drug before they are allowed back, no other kind of behavior modification, diet change, or counseling is acceptable.. they have got to be medicated... Do you rush out for a prescription?
Try again. You can use "Religious reasons" to avoid these things which is protected by the Constitution. My parents used this tool in many cases when I was in school.
Mostly over Holidays and being a part of pagan rituals. Which I wholeheartidly agreed with BTW.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Sorry ... seperation of church and state.  If I can't home school my kids, because of some sort of violation of "church and state" then I can't disregard their "professional" advice to dope up my kid for the same reason. 
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You can use "Religious reasons" to avoid these things which is protected by the Constitution.
So the parents should just lie to the school and tell them their kid can't take medications for religious reasons? 
yebat' Putin
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You can use "Religious reasons" to avoid these things which is protected by the Constitution.
So the parents should just lie to the school and tell them their kid can't take medications for religious reasons?
I don't know. Would it be a lie? Does your Religion believe that you go to the doctor "first" for every problem? Or do they "suggest or teach" that you go to God first and try to handle such problems through dicipline and guidence first?
In my case, it wasn't a lie. We believed in going to doctors "out of necessity". Infections, diseases, etc.......
We also believed, and I still do, that children act out and sometimes out of boredom, stress and other parts of growing up. And, that seeing a doctor about such things, is a last resort after other options have been exhausted.
You see, what "your Church teaches" is not always "100 percent of your Religious beliefs". So no, if you feel in your heart that seeing a doctor or counselor to medicate your child is the proper thing to do, I don't suggest you lie about it.
But if you feel in your heart that God and family is the best place to start your options, are you saying that is "not" part of your religious beliefs?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Sorry ... seperation of church and state.
If I can't home school my kids, because of some sort of violation of "church and state" then I can't disregard their "professional" advice to dope up my kid for the same reason.
Yes you can. Letting public schools "educate" your children is a far cry from letting the education system "dictate your life". Sorry, but that is the reality of the situation.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Yes you can. Letting public schools "educate" your children is a far cry from letting the education system "dictate your life". Sorry, but that is the reality of the situation.
Sorry ... but mandating that I have to use public schools and cannot home school is not "letting public schools educate", it's allowing the schools to "dictate my life". That's the whole crux of this discussion.
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For the love of all that is Holy Pit.. do you even remember what the topic is? ... or was? Quote:
I don't know. Would it be a lie? Does your Religion believe that you go to the doctor "first" for every problem? Or do they "suggest or teach" that you go to God first and try to handle such problems through dicipline and guidence first?
What if I'm an athiest or an agnostic or a Methodist who just happens to believe that counseling and other forms of behavior modification are better for kids than medication... well in that case you state...
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So no, if you feel in your heart that seeing a doctor or counselor to medicate your child is the proper thing to do, I don't suggest you lie about it.
Ok.. so I shouldn't lie to the school to keep my kid in school. I can't send him to school because they won't accept him unless medicated. And I can't teach him at home because I'm not certified... so I repeat... now what?
Hopefully we can get off this most recent tangent about what religion teaches about medication...
Now back to our regularly scheduled thread... about whether or not the government should dictate to you how your child is educated....
Note: The topic is not whether or not home schooling is more or less effective than public or private schooling and the topic is not what my religion thinks about medication.
yebat' Putin
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Note: The topic is not whether or not home schooling is more or less effective than public or private schooling and the topic is not what my religion thinks about medication.
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Now back to our regularly scheduled thread... about whether or not the government should dictate to you how your child is educated....
So let me reiterate ...
It's okay for the government to *mandate* that I send my own kids to private school, and no argument of "it's against my religion" can be used, because they are the "certified experts" and they know what's best for my kids.
BUT ...
It's NOT okay for the government to mandate that my kids take ritalin, even though they are the "certified experts" and they know what's best for my kids ... and if need be, I can argue "it's against my religion", and it's considered a valid argument.
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Yes you can. Letting public schools "educate" your children is a far cry from letting the education system "dictate your life". Sorry, but that is the reality of the situation.
Sorry ... but mandating that I have to use public schools and cannot home school is not "letting public schools educate", it's allowing the schools to "dictate my life". That's the whole crux of this discussion.
I don't believe that is "the crux" of the discussion whatsoever. I think the crux of the discussion is wheather to let ANY parent (wheather qualified or not) have that "choice".
There MUST be some guidelines as to the ability and expertice to "teach" a child throughout his or her entire education process.
I haven't seen ANYBODY say that "home schooling shouldn't be allowed"
What I have seen is that many of us are concerned in "parents ability to educate their children". Some can and some can't. Or do you believe just any damned body, regardless of their education, criminal background or anything else should "have that choice"?
That's pretty much my concern here. In families where "both parents work full time", who is there to "educate the children"? To take them to the YMCA to "interact" with other kids? To oversee their cirriculum?
Like I said, there are parents equipped to do this job. But far more often, they're not. It sounds as if many simply just say they don't care if the people educating our kids are compitant to do so or not. That's what I have an issue with and IS the "crux of the discussion" from my point of view.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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For the love of all that is Holy Pit.. do you even remember what the topic is? ... or was?
Hey, you're the one who brought it up.
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Now back to our regularly scheduled thread... about whether or not the government should dictate to you how your child is educated....
There should be "guidelines". Or do you feel a convicted murderer or rapist or petiphile should be considered a "qualified educater"?
There must be checks and balances as with everything. Or else you'll open things up for abuse.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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There MUST be some guidelines as to the ability and expertice to "teach" a child throughout his or her entire education process.
That's what standardized testing is for!
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In families where "both parents work full time", who is there to "educate the children"? To take them to the YMCA to "interact" with other kids? To oversee their cirriculum?
I wonder what percentage of home schoolers have no parents that stay home.
http://members.aol.com/A9258/Ohio.html
This is a web site that talks about state requirements in Ohio.
That isn't the right web site. here it is..
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/...p;Content=46081
Last edited by Pdawg; 03/14/08 03:36 PM.
#gmstrong
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There should be "guidelines". Or do you feel a convicted murderer or rapist or petiphile should be considered a "qualified educater"?
Oh boy, here we go with the rediculous extreme examples again. 
How many convicted murderers, rapists and pedofiles do you know that haven't already had their own kids taken away from them by protective services?
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You can laugh at it all you want, but without certain requirements and guidelines, you know as well as I do that you WILL have LOTS of people who ARE unqualified abuse this system.
You know it and I know it.
If you feel differently, name ONE government sponsored program that isn't?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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That's pretty much my concern here. In families where "both parents work full time", who is there to "educate the children"? To take them to the YMCA to "interact" with other kids? To oversee their cirriculum?
Pit.. the term is "home school"... this implies that it is done in the home. I can't think of any family where both parents work full time who would attempt to home school... perhaps some have but that is way way way far from the norm. 99.9% of the time it is done by a non-working parent.
yebat' Putin
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You can laugh at it all you want, but without certain requirements and guidelines, you know as well as I do that you WILL have LOTS of people who ARE unqualified abuse this system.
Would you please address the fact that states already have standardized testing in place to monitor progress which gives a pretty decent indication of whether or not current requirements and guidelines are being met... please.
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How do they abuse the system? The tests are administered by credentialed people. It's not like the parents can just fill out the test themself and give the kid an A.
If you're saying that the parent will just train the kids how to pass the credentialed test and nothing else ... I know public schools that do the same thing.
Now YOU name me just ONE other "credentialed" profession that requires you to be credentialed at home to peform services on your own family.
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Thanks for the link P.
It does underscore that some checks and balances are in place. But I feel that much like in the public education sector, that full background checks should be required by all "home educaters" as well.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Would you please address the fact that states already have standardized testing in place to monitor progress which gives a pretty decent indication of whether or not current requirements and guidelines are being met... please.
Yes, I just did above. And since the "no child left behind" program has been introduced, I have heard a number of educaters tell me that now, those scores and attendence are SO critical to their funding, that they must spend FAR TOO MUCH TIME preparing kids for these tests, than actually "educating our children".
Because federal funding is based purely upon that. So you are right.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Thanks for the link P.
It does underscore that some checks and balances are in place. But I feel that much like in the public education sector, that full background checks should be required by all "home educaters" as well.
JMHO
I guess full backround checks should be done on every parent also?
#gmstrong
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No, a convicted rapist or pedophile is ok to teach the kid morals.. just not math. 
yebat' Putin
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I guess full backround checks should be done on every parent also?
Any healthy man can "father a child" but not every man can "be a dad".
But yes, IF YOU feel you are "qualified to educate" why shouldn't you be upheld to the same standards as other educaters?
Or is it your contention that "anybody can properly educate a child"?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But yes, IF YOU feel you are "qualified to educate" why shouldn't you be upheld to the same standards as other educaters?
If YOU feel you are "qualified to parent" why shouldn't you be upheld to the same standards as other parents?
Would you be ok with that? And who gets to set the standards?
yebat' Putin
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There are no "parenting standards" other than abuse and education laws. Why? As I stated, "Any healthy man can father a child".
There ARE however, "standards in education". And since that "is the reality of it", why reach for something unrealistic?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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What's your point? You could send these kids to public schools and there would still be cases of abuse and murder. Are you going to demand full background checks of parents in general?
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I read a couple of your articles.. those aren't homeschooling nightmares, those are parenting nightmares. They killed the kid and nobody noticed for a year because he was homeschooled? So it would have been much better if he was in public school, then they could have discovered his dead body that much quicker and it would have been less of a nightmare.... 
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Thanks for the link P.
It does underscore that some checks and balances are in place. But I feel that much like in the public education sector, that full background checks should be required by all "home educaters" as well.
JMHO
Am I reading this right, for me to teach MY OWN KIDS I should get a background check?? So if I was convicted for robbing a bank 10 years ago and I served 5 years in jail, came out reformed and since then have gotten married and have a 5 year old child I would not be eligible to home school my child under your guidelines?? BTW the proceeding was theoreical and not based on experience
KING
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There ARE however, "standards in education". And since that "is the reality of it", why reach for something unrealistic?
Like DC said ... your example are failures in parenting, not failures in home-schooling. What good is sending a kid to school for 6 hours going to do, when they are still with that kind of parent for the remaining 18 hours out of the day?
And I could also post plenty of articles on failures within the public school. Like teachers molesting students, or kids getting assaulted by other kids, kids being sold drugs on school grounds, kids being sent to abortion clinics secretly by school counselors, only to have the kid die or have major complications during the operation ... etc.
There are always going to be examples of failures in any system you use.
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