|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
More press...take it for what it's worth Browns make big strides; friends remember Favre's career Pat Kirwan By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com When I was at the Jets I used to have a piece of paper on my desk when free agency was about to start that I looked at 10 times a day during the spring. It said, "Always remember the R's of free agency." It meant, put the right tag on the restricted free agents, re-sign the right players, restructure the contracts that needed to be adjusted, release the right guys, react in time to the ever changing market, and recruit the free agents hard when they visited the facility. Free Agency 2008 Unrestricted free agency will continue for months but it can't continue at the financial pace it set in the first week. Guaranteed money is being thrown at players and signing bonuses for $1 million go to special teams guys. I asked Cleveland GM Phil Savage if he was surprised at the fast start to free agency and his answer was, "We realized what we wanted to accomplish and we knew a number of other teams were prepared to act quickly so we had to move." A number of defensive tackles have been traded in since free agency began. The Browns started the trend by trading for Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers. As Savage said, "There has never been a moment in my history with the Browns that there was such a strong consensus to pull the trigger on the trades rather than hope to get quality defensive linemen in the draft." Savage added that, "You would be dreaming to think there were defensive linemen like Rogers or Corey Williams in the second or third rounds of this draft." Savage is a guy who reacted to the market in the first week. I talked with linebacker Takeo Spikes minutes after he was released by the Eagles. He had no hard feelings because he actually drove his own release by refusing to renegotiate his contract. Spikes told me he has already been contacted by a number of teams who reacted to the termination. The good teams don't wait to go after opportunities. Spikes made a strong case to me that he fits in a 3-4 defense as well as a 4-3; his early days in Cincinnati were in Dick LeBeau's 3-4 package. Browns on the offensive Last year, the Patriots went out and built their own version of the Colts' three wide receiver, one tight end, one running back offense. In one week, the Browns have their own version of the Colts offense assembled and it should be very effective. First, they locked up quarterback Derek Anderson for at least one year and three if all goes well in 2008. They also re-signed RB Jamal Lewis. Then they jumped into free agency and acquired WR Donte' Stallworth, one of the Patriots' offensive pieces in 2007 to complement what they already have in place. Consider their left tackle, Joe Thomas, made the Pro Bowl in his rookie season and this Browns offense has a chance to be great. Take a look at how all three teams stack up heading into 2008: Z receiver Team Player Browns Donte' Stallworth Colts Reggie Wayne Patriots Jabar Gaffney Tight end Team Player Browns Kellen Winslow Colts Dallas Clark Patriots Ben Watson Slot receiver Team Player Browns Joe Jurevicius Colts Anthony Gonzalez Patriots Wes Welker X receiver Team Player Browns Braylon Edwards Colts Marvin Harrison Patriots Randy Moss Left tackle Team Player Browns Joe Thomas Colts Tony Ugoh Patriots Matt Light Quarterback Team Player Browns Derek Anderson Colts Peyton Manning Patriots Tom Brady Running back Team Player Browns Jamal Lewis Colts Joseph Addai Patriots Laurence Maroney link
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,524
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,524 |
Wow, DA being matched up with Brady and Manning...
Now I like the guy and I'm glad we kept him, but that's quite the grouping.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 292
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 292 |
Great read. Think of how far the Browns have come since the end of the 2006 season. A 4-12 disappointment, calls for the head of RAC, another top 5 2007 draft pick with numerous holes to fill...it was an ugly time.
Less than one and a half years later, the Browns GM is the guy they quote on building a winning NFL team. The Browns are compared to the Colts and the Pats. How quickly fortunes can change.
We don't know yet how this season will turn out. The least we can hope for is that the Browns will be competitive in every game. I think that they will be a really tough out each and every weekend in the fall and winter. It's a great time to be a Browns fan.
[color:"red"]"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
---Leonardo daVinci
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
NIce to continue to hear that the Browns are getting Props out there. Even if it's from the media types... I'll take it. Quote:
Savage added that, "You would be dreaming to think there were defensive linemen like Rogers or Corey Williams in the second or third rounds of this draft."
Pretty much what most of you guys have been saying..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
Quote:
NIce to continue to hear that the Browns are getting Props out there. Even if it's from the media types... I'll take it.
Quote:
Savage added that, "You would be dreaming to think there were defensive linemen like Rogers or Corey Williams in the second or third rounds of this draft."
Pretty much what most of you guys have been saying..
That's my train of thought.
What got me about this article is when they broke down our offenseive players and matched them to the Colts and Pats...it jumped off the screen that we really do have talented players on this club...comparable to the best teams in the league.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
Quote:
Take a look at how all three teams stack up heading into 2008:
Z receiver
Team Player
Browns Donte' Stallworth
Colts Reggie Wayne
Patriots Jabar Gaffney
EDGE: Colts
Tight end
Team Player
Browns Kellen Winslow
Colts Dallas Clark
Patriots Ben Watson
EDGE: Browns
Slot receiver
Team Player
Browns Joe Jurevicius
Colts Anthony Gonzalez
Patriots Wes Welker
EDGE: 3rd down conversion - Browns
YAC - Patriots
X receiver
Team Player
Browns Braylon Edwards
Colts Marvin Harrison
Patriots Randy Moss
EDGE: Patriots (maybe Colts if Marvin is healthy)
Left tackle
Team Player
Browns Joe Thomas
Colts Tony Ugoh
Patriots Matt Light
EDGE: Browns (Light is a solid vet but was owned in SB XLII by NYG pass-rushers)
Quarterback
Team Player
Browns Derek Anderson
Colts Peyton Manning
Patriots Tom Brady
EDGE: Clutch- Patriots
IQ - Colts
Running back
Team Player
Browns Jamal Lewis
Colts Joseph Addai
Patriots Laurence Maroney
EDGE: Speed - Colts
2nd level - Pats
Toughness & Power - Browns
All things considered, I think we stack up pretty well offensively. With a solid defense, we should definitely be amongst the top-tier in the AFC for the next few years. But a lot of people leave out the Steelers, the Jaguars, and the Chargers. Add those teams plus the playoff experience factor in and the Browns are going to have quite a fight on their hands on the way to their first ever Super Bowl.
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
Quote:
X receiver
Team Player
Browns Braylon Edwards
Colts Marvin Harrison
Patriots Randy Moss
EDGE: Patriots (maybe Colts if Marvin is healthy)
At this point, I feel comfortable putting Braylon in front of Marvin.
But both Randy and Braylon still have to prove they can put consecutive seasons together. Not that Randy hasn't done it before, but prior to last year, he was considered wash up...he still has to prove he has the fire to play. Braylon needs to prove last year wasn't a fluke.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
We really do stack up nicely offensively against the Colts and Pats. Except for QB, and Z receiver. Donte Stallworth is not gonna be anywhere near Gaffney or Reggie Wayne for this team. He's a good screen guy and SHORT quick dump off's. He's not the deep threat so many seem to think. The only time he was used in that way was in Philly, and they cut him him the following year. So did the Pats, teams dont just throw away good players. Especially a team that's depserate for a WR(philly) and a team that year in and out makes perfect personel moves(pats).
Of course comparing Peyton and Tom to DA is silly.
Unfortunatley we are still behind the Colts and Chargers in defense. But it's still nice top be a potential top 5 NFL team! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
I wouldn't say we're behind the Colts D. They've lost a couple of starters from that D...and outside of Bob Sanders and Dwight Freeney, there's nothing that's really frightening. Both players came be schemed against.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
Potentially we might be better, but their D was top 10 last year and ours was bottom 10. Until our D proves their anything the Colts and Bolts have better defense's.
Quote:
...and outside of Bob Sanders and Dwight Freeney, there's nothing that's really frightening. Both players came be schemed against.
Yeah they have players on defense you have to scheme against. The Browns might have one (Rodgers), but the Colts have 2 proven studs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901 |
Didn't Stallworth start over Gaffney? To say they aren't comparable is an odd statement to me.
Also I think with our D line this year, we will have more than one player to game plan against. KW could be a beast. Also (hopefully) S. Jones.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Yeah, I'd feel a lot better about these comparisons if the offenses actually faced each other on the field, across the LOS from each other. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
Quote:
Didn't Stallworth start over Gaffney? To say they aren't comparable is an odd statement to me.
Yeah at the beginning of the season. His playing time went south as the season progressed. He was a non-factor late, most of his big plays are catch and runs. Like the game against us and the Jags game. Gaffney was usually lined up at Z or Y late in the season with Stallworth either the slot or the #4 WR.
I'm not saying he's bad just sayin he's not quite what people are expecting. And he's not this guy that just opens up everyone else.
He didn't open anyone else up in Philly and in NE Randy Moss opened up Welker, Him, and Gaffney.
If your expecting a decent role player that will drop passes occasionaly, but mainly do work in the slot by catching short slants and outs then you'll be happy with Stallworth. But if your expecting a true Z reciver that runs deep and catches 75 balls for 900yds then your not gonna be happy with Donte.
Last edited by BrownsFanZ; 03/11/08 03:18 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
We're not confusing Donte Stallworth with Dante Lavelli...he might very well be the highest paid decoy in the league...basically, he's gonna pull coverages away from BE and K2...he has the same speed as Tim Carter with better play-making ability...enough the defenses HAVE to respect it...that's what he's here for...IMO.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901 |
...........took the words outta my mouth!  and a mention of an all time great!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
I hope your right, but if you were game planning against the Browns tomorrow Stallworth would be the 4th guy you would be thinking about.
Teams will still double Braylon and Kellen(like last year) and then try and stop Jamal. Teams will once again force us to throw to Joe and Donte. Last year Tim Carter and Joe were open ALOT but neither were found most of the time. Sometimes Joe was so open there wasn't any DB's on his side of the field. Tim was open on fly routes consistently but was rarely thrown to.
Tim Carter was fast too but defense's didn't bat an eye at him or Joe. I don't see that changing with Stallworth. He'll be open, but the guys we had last year were too. I guess time will tell, I still don't think WR was a big enough need to spend $5 million in cap space. 90% of our plays go in KW2 or BE's direction plus our QB doesnt even look at the other 3 guys in the offense.
JMHO - We are both right
Last edited by BrownsFanZ; 03/11/08 06:09 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
90% of our plays go in KW2 or BE's direction plus our QB doesnt even look at the other 3 guys in the offense.
Quit making up stories. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
The reasons DA didn't throw it to Carter is because he had the most terrible set of hands i've ever seen.
Unlike Tim Carter, Donte Stallworth can actually catch a ball. Stallworth as the 4th option will be a HUGE success.
As for Joe...didn't he lead the league in 3rd Down Covo's or come pretty darn close? I don't think DA didn't "look" for him, maybe he went for the big play on 1st and 2nd down rather than taking less yardage. Either way, that will be changed next year *hopefully*. If it's not, well then they will get a QB who can.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086 |
Flattering, but much remains to be seen. I think some of these are a stretch. I think that putting DA there with the other qubees is a reach if not flat out fiction, and I like the guy. Don't care who wins games. REALLY like the J-vicious in slot (and hope we tinker with Jamal in there too, adds a power wrinkle to the XY set). But maybe I am wrong, and a productive Donte and a BE with fewer drops with a dash of Cribbs would be hard to honor and defense. Cracking cover 2's for DA will be crucial. Need to adjust playbook to what he does best, and do a lot less of what he has shown he isn't strong in at all (think Pro Bowl). Having all the firepower is the lesser half; teaching him to check thru progressions is vital. But interesting article; not a lot new. Somebody had a deadline or so it seems IMO. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
Quote:
I hope your right, but if you were game planning against the Browns tomorrow Stallworth would be the 4th guy you would be thinking about.
Teams will still double Braylon and Kellen(like last year) and then try and stop Jamal. Teams will once again force us to throw to Joe and Donte. Last year Tim Carter and Joe were open ALOT but neither were found most of the time. Sometimes Joe was so open there wasn't any DB's on his side of the field. Tim was open on fly routes consistently but was rarely thrown to.
Tim Carter was fast too but defense's didn't bat an eye at him or Joe. I don't see that changing with Stallworth. He'll be open, but the guys we had last year were too. I guess time will tell, I still don't think WR was a big enough need to spend $5 million in cap space. 90% of our plays go in KW2 or BE's direction plus our QB doesnt even look at the other 3 guys in the offense.
JMHO - We are both right
Defenses did account for Joe...he was our #2...they had to, and when they didn't, he usually made them pay.
They didn't pay much attention to Tim Carter, they didn't have to.
But if they neglect Donte Stallworth in this offense, he'll have his best season ever. He must be accounted for, because he can make plays. If coverages are predominantly rolled to BE and K2, that's at the defense's peril. It wouldn't be smart...no matter who the QB is, somebody's gonna be WIDE OPEN.
Last year 90% of our plays went to BE and K2, you're right...that doesn't make it a good idea to do it again this year...THAT'S why grabbing a dangerous receiver was necessary...just ask Joe!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
Quote:
Quote:
90% of our plays go in KW2 or BE's direction plus our QB doesnt even look at the other 3 guys in the offense.
Quit making up stories.
Stories? Right...Fact!  JJ was open way more than he was thrown too. The worst of it was in the Cardinals and Raiders game. Instead of DA throwing to the open guy he threw into double and triple coverage. Without turning this into another debate..DA doesn't read the field well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
Sometimes Joe was so open there wasn't any DB's on his side of the field. Tim was open on fly routes consistently but was rarely thrown to.
90 percent is a big number. Remember we run the ball with Jamal.
BE and KW2 are our number 1 and 2 recievers. In fairness to DA, he only has so much time to read the field. A lot of times you go with who you're comfortable with. He did throw into double coverage a lot, and those throws were often caught. Edwards and Winslow did great last year.
As for Tim Carter, don't mention that scrub. He sucked last year. I've seen him since he was with the Giants. He always sucked. I was unhappy with the pickup last year, and I'm happy we have Stallworth instead this year.
But yeah, I've got little problem with our offense. I think that this year it will be even better. And sure, JJ and Donte probably will deserve more balls, but that's the case with many players on many teams. Every Pats fan I talk to says they wish Donte could have gotten the ball more last year. But he didn't. That's because they only have so many places the ball can go. Remember that we run the ball too.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
Stories? Right...Fact!
Prove it!
I say you made up those numbers. I also say they aren't even close to being true. You're just saying stuff to make DA look bad, as if that somehow makes Quinn look good. 
Childish............at best.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,098 |
Quote:
The reasons DA didn't throw it to Carter is because he had the most terrible set of hands i've ever seen.
Dawg- you must have started watchin' the Browns AFTER they traded away Quincy Morgan!
_______________________
Time to throw out an Old Dawg a bone-
In a footrace, your azz- he would own...
But the dude known as "Q"
Didn't do "diddly poo"...
-'Cause his speed came with hands made of stone!
______________
As for pass-catching stats... Donte's and JJ's numbers will be interesting to see. A LOT of their effectiveness will be based on DA's ability to accurately spread the ball around... an area that I feel he needs to improve, if he wants to be considered an elite QB.
He has this upcoming season to prove it. I hooe he does... because it would only spell good things for the Browns as a whole.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
Dawg- you must have started watchin' the Browns AFTER they traded away Quincy Morgan!
But Quincy was missing his thumbs. He had a reason for dropping so many. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
To this day, some of the kids in my neighborhood call dropping an easy pass a "Quincy". As in, "Dude, you Quincied that ..."
His claim to fame may be dropping an easy pass that lead to the illegal review that led to Bottlegate. He catches that we have a first and goal and no near-riot.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
Quote:
In fairness to DA, he only has so much time to read the field.
Yeah it's not like the guy has one of the best OL's in football.
Quote:
A lot of times you go with who you're comfortable with.
Yes! thats the problem. He's made his mind up instead of actually reading the field.
Quote:
He did throw into double coverage a lot, and those throws were often caught. Edwards and Winslow did great last year.
Bingo..nail on the head.
Quote:
Prove it!
I say you made up those numbers. I also say they aren't even close to being true. You're just saying stuff to make DA look bad,
1. I can prove it. JJ was open alot and not thrown to..simple truth. Another simple truth is DA turned the ball over ALOT in the second half. Why is that? The wind>? No poor decision making..not finding the open guy.
In particular the zone defenses we saw..you know this Vers. When the defense is in a zone the QB reads the zone instead of watching recievers. The zone dictates where the ball goes...the QB has to process the zone, know who's open and throw. You can read any college report on DA, whats the ONE ting scouts question in him.....decision making. BTW his career was nothing special until Steven Jackson got to OSU, that finally allowed him to throw play action deep passes.
This why balls were thrown into guys lap like the Bengals game. DA had already made his mind up to throw the ball before the snap to BE or KW2.
Result: The Browns miss the playoffs after losing to 2 bad teams in ARZ and CINCI
Quote:
as if that somehow makes Quinn look good.
I don't care if it's Quinn, Doresy or freakin Tim Couch. I don't pick on DA because I like Quinn. I have no clue if Quinn will be any better. I just realize that a change has to be made baecause we know what we have in DA, a guy that since the day he stepped onto a football field has been inconsistent.
Why did the browns win 10 games?
Quote:
He did throw into double coverage a lot, and those throws were often caught. Edwards and Winslow did great last year.
Quote:
In fairness to DA, he only has so much time to read the field.
I don't care who the QB is. I'm not a Quinn "nut" I just want to win and go to the playoffs in 2008. And im not sold DA can do it, because at the end of the day HE HASN'T. You make it seem like the guy has proven himself. Again Quinn hasn't proven he can do it, but DA has proven he can't.
DA's QB rating went from 104 in october, to 81 in november, to a ridiculous 66 in december. his completetion % went from 62 in october to 59 in november and then again, to a horrible 53%. And BTW his only games last year where his QB rating was over 100...The FIRST Cinci game, Miami, St. Louis, and the FIRST Baltimore Game.
First Cinci Game Rating : 120
Second Cinci Game : 53
First Ravens Game : 109
Second Ravens game : 73
If it was reversed i'd see your point that i'm just out to pimp Quinn.
The only thing DA has done is get worse over the course of his second playing season. I'm not "making DA look bad" i'm just telling the facts. If DA gets better than great, but the DA from last season will get us a big fat 7-9 season next year and that's why I said what I said 
Last edited by BrownsFanZ; 03/13/08 04:14 PM.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pat Kirwin on the Browns and the
elite of the AFC
|
|
