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This is, as near as I can recall, a direct quote from a member of the Youngstown Board of Education following the 2nd straight defeat of the 9 Mill School levy by Youngstown voters. I have done some checking into spending in this general area of the state, and as far as per pupil spending, believe it or not, Youngstown already is way above other local (and far better performing) school districts. I have found the following on Yahoo's demographic website. Youngstown: Median Income: $26,888 Per Pupil Spending: $6224 Poland: Median Income: $52,007 Per Pupil Spending: $4929 Struthers: Median Income: $34,468 Per Pupil Spending: $5548 Lowellville: Median Income: $33,463 Per Pupil Spending: $4317 Niles: Median Income: $38,234 Per Pupil Spending: $5300 Campbell: Median Income: $34,025 Per Pupil Spending: $5974 Mineral Ridge: Median Income: $51,157 Per Pupil Spending: $5210 The Youngstown region, which includes Boardman and Austintown, spends far more per student than any other region in this area .... yet has the lowest income level. However .... the Board of Education has the gall to say that we just don't spend enough ... and should pay an extra 9 mill just to prove we "care".  Boardman and Austintown also had fairly large school levies on their ballots. This is a sterling example of government figuring that what's theirs is theirs ..... and what's yours is theirs too.  Personally, I'm disgusted by it, and pretty damn tired of it as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dang! Show them your findings.  How many students in each of those districts?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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So does this support my continued assertion that it has nothing to do with the school districts and more to do with what the school district has to work with as far as the students and their parent(s)? Thowing more and more money at poor performng innner city school districts has been proven time to NOT be the answer. No matter the district, the education is there to be had, its the parents that suck, not the schools.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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My point is that people in Youngstown are tapped out when it comes to taxes.
I honestly don't know how some people living at or near the average income do it. With increasing gasoline, natural gas, and damn near every other necessary expense on the rise, people have to work harder just to stay even ... and the city is crying poor once again.
I should add that the residents of Youngstown also get tagged with one of the highest municipal income tax rates in the state to boot. (2.75%)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Youngstown district, as it's structured, would be the largest in the area. However, an 18-1 pupil to teacher ratio seems reasonable to me .. and the student/librarian and students/counselor ratios are even better than some other districts.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dang! Show them your findings.
How many students in each of those districts?
Good question....after set expenses such as teacher salaries and physical plant maintenance are considered, the number of students makes a big impact on the cost per student.
It costs X dollars to open a schools doors and hire staff no matter if you have 200 students or 2000.
The cost per student is going to go up if you have fewer students.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Dang! Show them your findings.
How many students in each of those districts?
Good question....after set expenses such as teacher salaries and physical plant maintenance are considered, the number of students makes a big impact on the cost per student.
It costs X dollars to open a schools doors and hire staff no matter if you have 200 students or 2000.
The cost per student is going to go up if you have fewer students.
Well, the Youngstown district is the largest in this area ..... so the economics of scale seem to be working in reverse here ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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Quote:
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Dang! Show them your findings.
How many students in each of those districts?
Good question....after set expenses such as teacher salaries and physical plant maintenance are considered, the number of students makes a big impact on the cost per student.
It costs X dollars to open a schools doors and hire staff no matter if you have 200 students or 2000.
The cost per student is going to go up if you have fewer students.
Well, the Youngstown district is the largest in this area ..... so the economics of scale seem to be working in reverse here ......
could also be a result of real estate values, cost of living in the area (driving up the salaries of teachers), etc. Not disputing the point, but it may not be that simple.
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"They just don't care if they have a school district...."
Spoken like a true bureaucrat adicted to the increasing flow of money into the system year after year.
Make do with what you have to work with Mr. Board of Education guy...cut back on trips and seminars...cut out some school sponsored activities for a year...cut until you have a balanced budget.
Hell, heres an idea...anyone who doesn't drive the school bus, maintain the facility, teach the kids, feed the kids or coach the kids...or the one only school secretary gets furloughed for 30 days without pay...including the other bureaucrats in the school district.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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could also be a result of real estate values, cost of living in the area (driving up the salaries of teachers), etc. Not disputing the point, but it may not be that simple.
Youngstown is one of the very most affordable places to live in the entire country. One's real estate dollars go further here than probably anywhere else in the state.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The central problem is the backassward way of funding schools that our state has.
I will say this, people telling the districts to "make due with what they have" is a joke, especially when government pressure from the national level is at its greatest.
The state needs to figure out how to get out of this levy system because our education system will go further down the tubes than it already has thanks to this mess.
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The only variable I can see that may make this "seemingly high cost per student ratio" is the condition of the current schools and money they're spending on repairs, maintenance and the building of new schools.
Often times it's just as cost effective to build new schools than to rehab old schools. Could it be that many of the schools in the Youngstown area are in such bad need of repair and new schools are needed, that it may serve to scew the numbers somewhat? Just wondering. Because if they need new schools to be built, it would most certainly drive up that "per pupil cost" until such time as this construction is finished.
At that point, you would see the numbers fall more in line with other districts.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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So does this support my continued assertion that it has nothing to do with the school districts and more to do with what the school district has to work with as far as the students and their parent(s)? Thowing more and more money at poor performng innner city school districts has been proven time to NOT be the answer. No matter the district, the education is there to be had, its the parents that suck, not the schools.
I was going to share my opinion on this, but now there is no need to. 
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So does this support my continued assertion that it has nothing to do with the school districts and more to do with what the school district has to work with as far as the students and their parent(s)? Thowing more and more money at poor performng innner city school districts has been proven time to NOT be the answer. No matter the district, the education is there to be had, its the parents that suck, not the schools.
I was going to share my opinion on this, but now there is no need to.
That's not exactly true. The ever increasing costs of technology and the fact that technology is necessary for a good education makes costs rise.
Having lived through many a levy I've learned a lot about this...and the fact is telling the school "You're just gonna have to make due with what you have" will cripple education.
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The central problem is the backassward way of funding schools that our state has.
I will say this, people telling the districts to "make due with what they have" is a joke, especially when government pressure from the national level is at its greatest.
The state needs to figure out how to get out of this levy system because our education system will go further down the tubes than it already has thanks to this mess.
Exactly!!
Official Trevor Laws Pimp... Bring on the Energizer Bunny
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You are completely missing the point, as usual.
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Well, I would definitely take those findings to the next board meeting and try to find out where that $6K per kid is going, because those figures do seem staggering.
HOWEVER, people need to remember that maintaining good schools is a community's responsibility. It's not the teachers, or the administrators, it's the voters and the taxpayers!! It's your civic duty to maintain a high level of education by providing funds for the resources it takes to provide such education. For if you refuse to do your civic duty and do not vote to pass operating levies, then your schools and your children will ultimately suffer. And then you will have no one else to blame when your property values plummet and no one wants to move into your community because the schools suck and the real estate market is flooded with people trying to get out. Just a few thoughts from a teacher who sees this crap go down on the front lines every single day!!
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That's not exactly true. The ever increasing costs of technology and the fact that technology is necessary for a good education makes costs rise.
Having lived through many a levy I've learned a lot about this...and the fact is telling the school "You're just gonna have to make due with what you have" will cripple education.
As Jules pointed out to you Ammo, you are missing the point, the poor performing school didtricts that are crying about money are in fact the school districts that are getting the MOST money, yet they continue to struggle so they cry for more money, when throwing more money at it DOES NOT AND HAS NOT fixed the problem. The reason most of these districts are struglgling is because of the student and parent they have to work with. They deal with parents who dont give a damn enough to help or cant help, so therefore the kids suffer and a result of that is low test scores and as they get older violence in schools.
I will put my own kids out there as a example. My kids both go to a supposedly poor performing district(Cleveland Public) yet my kids standardized testing scores are above and beyond what many kids at supposedly "good" school districts get, my kids can do more as far as reading and writing and math than some of their friends who go to private schools, My son is in third grade yet can read at a JR high level, WHY?? Because me and my wife both care and we work with them and their teachers to make ure they are doing their work, we make them read at home, we check their HW and make sure it is done right, we take them places and teach them things to support what they learn in school. My kids learn the same ABCs and 123s at their school as they would at any school district, they go to a nice, clean , safe school and so so the kids who are struggling , yet the school gets blamed for these struggling kids. I would bet that 95% of the kids who are struggling are kids who come from home lifes that are lacking in support for whatever reason. More money isnt going to help that.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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and the fact that technology is necessary for a good education
Tell that to the people that invented all of that technology... you know, the guys who invented things like the C Programming Language, Internetworked Computing or Semi-Conductors and Microprocesors. The guys who in their childhood still used slates and chalk to do their classwork and used a slide rule to do their calculations, even in College Calculus.... kinda like the people that put Man on the moon.
Having high tech in the classroom is a CONVENIENCE to learning, not a requirement of it.... and it is not even close. In fact, I could probably make a more sound argument of its detriment to quality learning than could be made for its benefit.
Browns is the Browns
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Poland:
Median Income: $52,007
Per Pupil Spending: $4929
We spend less per child and are rated highest of any of these schools. We recieved the top grade for school districts in Ohio and are in the top 15% of schools nationwide.
Peen asked about facilities..We have six buildings. The newest one was built in 1971. We have two buildings over 100 years old. Are individual tax rate is also one of the highest in the three area counties due to the fact we have no industry. Youngstown recieves a lot of money from businesses. I do not know what condition their buildings are in. I know they just buily a state of the art high school and closed many other buildings. They also get much more finacial help from the state.
#gmstrong
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The central problem is the backassward way of funding schools that our state has.
This is true but it has nothing to do with this arguement. People are very reluctant to pass levies but Y-Town is making the point about per child spending.
#gmstrong
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could also be a result of real estate values, cost of living in the area (driving up the salaries of teachers), etc. Not disputing the point, but it may not be that simple.
Youngstown housing prices are dirt cheap. The teacher salaries are higher in Youngstown because they are an inner city school district. My guess is that starting pay for teachers is around $35K. Sub pay is around $80 a day, where Poland pays $70.
#gmstrong
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I will put my own kids out there as a example. My kids both go to a supposedly poor performing district(Cleveland Public) yet my kids standardized testing scores are above and beyond what many kids at supposedly "good" school districts get, my kids can do more as far as reading and writing and math than some of their friends who go to private schools, My son is in third grade yet can read at a JR high level, WHY?? Because me and my wife both care and we work with them and their teachers to make ure they are doing their work, we make them read at home, we check their HW and make sure it is done right, we take them places and teach them things to support what they learn in school. My kids learn the same ABCs and 123s at their school as they would at any school district, they go to a nice, clean , safe school and so so the kids who are struggling , yet the school gets blamed for these struggling kids. I would bet that 95% of the kids who are struggling are kids who come from home lifes that are lacking in support for whatever reason. More money isnt going to help that.
KING
Boy, I wish there were more parents out there like you. People who actually 'get it'.
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[
Boy, I wish there were more parents out there like you. People who actually 'get it'.
Thank you, it is a major pet peeve of mine when you see so many parents who think that their childs education is soley left up to the school. A lot of them feel like they should just send their kid off to school everyday and that is the end of their responsibility, but when their kids scores are low they think the school has let them down and they raise hell. It also pisses me off because those kids are holding the rest of the kids down.
Bad behavior issues are the same way in school. Theres a big fight at one of the high schools and the parents blame the school. How about blame your bad ass thug kids who are doing the crap?
A couple months ago my son got in a fight at school and had to serve three days detention. Detention is before school, so my son does his three days detention as well as being grounded at home for those three days. When I ask him if him and the kid who got in a fight made up while they had to sit in detention for three days before school my son tells me that the other kid in the fight wasnt in detention because his mom said she isnt bringing him to school early. My son also told me this kid told him he never was punished in any way at home either. My on learned his lesson and hant done it again, the other kid has been in three more fights since that time.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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"That's not exactly true. The ever increasing costs of technology and the fact that technology is necessary for a good education makes costs rise.
Having lived through many a levy I've learned a lot about this...and the fact is telling the school "You're just gonna have to make due with what you have" will cripple education. "
THIS IS THE PERFECT WAY TO INTRODUCE MERIT PAY TO THE MOST INGENIOUS TEACHERS.
The best among us rise to challenges given us while the average simply accepts the stumbling block as the way it is.
Allow individual teachers or groups of teachers to devise new methods of instruction and guidance and reward them if called for.
The money train needs to be checked and innovative new techniques employed when proven successful.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Ok Ralphie but the issue here is not Teacher pay, it's school funding for resources and operating expenses. God, if levies were passed to increase teacher salaries, then I'd never get a raise.
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A lot of them feel like they should just send their kid off to school everyday and that is the end of their responsibility,
You could not have hit the nail any closer to the head than that Kingo!
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Bravo KING! Very nicely said. My mom has been a teacher in Toledo Public Schools for 25 years and the stories I hear about parents blaming the schools for everything is amazing. It all starts at home, and it sounds as if you are doing your part and then some! As Kardiac said, there needs to be more parents like you.
#gmstrong
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So of course my son brings home a detention slip yesterday for trippin some kid in the lunchroom and then arguing with the teacher.. Im going to beat him with a spatula tonight if he has another bad behavior report J/K
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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LOL. Not to diminish the things you've said on this thread King, but I find it sad that we have come to the point where we applaud and congratulate people for doing exactly what they should as a parent.
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LOL. Not to diminish the things you've said on this thread King, but I find it sad that we have come to the point where we applaud and congratulate people for doing exactly what they should as a parent.
If you lower the bar enough and excuse bad behavior enough, that's what happens.... what used to be average now looks extraordinary... like when the Mayor of New York thanked the citizens for NOT rioting... 
And that's not in direct relationship to King.. based on what he said he's doing a bang up job. Oh, and King.. I have an 11 year old son, can I borrow that spatula when you're done with it?  
yebat' Putin
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but I find it sad that we have come to the point where we applaud and congratulate people for doing exactly what they should as a parent.
Welcome to my world. I'm lucky if I even get parents to show up to P/T Conferences. Twice a year, I sit here and twiddle my thumbs until 9:00 at night all to see maybe 2 or 3 parents show up. And it's ALWAYS the parents of the kids who have As. We had a 'Parent Night" earlier in the year to get some of them involved in what we're doing this year, you know, another feeble attempt to "reach out" and I had one parent show up. ONE! And all she wanted was to complain about why her daughter isn't being placed in the Gifted class. Which brings me back to the school funding issue.... we have no Gifted class!! 
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I don't know, spatulas seem to be made pretty weak these days. Not sure using a spatula will teach them a lesson. 
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I only use Pampered Chef stuff... that stuff is STRONG!!!
yebat' Putin
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LOL. Not to diminish the things you've said on this thread King, but I find it sad that we have come to the point where we applaud and congratulate people for doing exactly what they should as a parent.
You are absolutely right, parents doing what they are supposed to do should be the norm, not the exception. Maybe that is why the schools are producing so many Steelers fans
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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How true that is 
#gmstrong
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I only use Pampered Chef stuff... that stuff is STRONG!!!
I like to go to the dollar store and by them 10 at a time.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I like to send my wife to Pampered Chef parties, sure it costs me $100 for kitchen utensils I don't need but I get a night of peace and quiet to watch the game.
yebat' Putin
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Tell that to the people that invented all of that technology... you know, the guys who invented things like the C Programming Language, Internetworked Computing or Semi-Conductors and Microprocesors. The guys who in their childhood still used slates and chalk to do their classwork and used a slide rule to do their calculations, even in College Calculus.... kinda like the people that put Man on the moon.
Having high tech in the classroom is a CONVENIENCE to learning, not a requirement of it.... and it is not even close. In fact, I could probably make a more sound argument of its detriment to quality learning than could be made for its benefit.
I'm glad you mentioned this because I agree the argument can be its a detriment.
I have often wondered if God snapped his fingers and all technology disappeared if the people using it were smart enough to recreate it.  My answer is I seriously doubt it. Many people make statements about not having to know Algebra, Calculus / high math or science because they don't use it, but what if one morning we woke up and.... 
"My signature line goes here."
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[ Many people make statements about not having to know Algebra, Calculus / high math or science because they don't use it, but what if one morning we woke up and....
I wake up every morning not knowing a thing about calculus.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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