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There is nothing in Obama's actions that would suggest that he holds similar views.
Are you serious? His middle name is Hussein, just like Saddam!
And he chose this middle name??
RIP My Love
1969-2025
20 years was not enough
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US of KKK America is racist
Of course it is, but blacks don't count that.
The only stuff they worry about is the stuff against them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Well what about that picture where he was wearing that Africa-....errrr, I mean turban? And an 'S' isn't that different than a B. 
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Obama cannot be held accountable for the actions of another.
To an extent you are correct. He should not be held accountable for the actions of others. However, this person is a minister he's been going to for years. You generally don't stick around in a church where you don't at least offer some sort of support to what the minister is saying.
A few years ago, I was trying to find a new church for me. I didn't feel right going to a Catholic church any longer. Anyway, my Aunt introduced me to her neighbor, who's Dad is a minister at a church. They invited me to attend and I did. THe first part of the service was what I was looking for...lots of people singing and praising the Lord...all positive vibes. Then there was a coffee break in the middle of the service. When we came back, the minister stood up to give his sermon. He talked about beating children and how parents need to set out some serious physical discipline on their children. And he wasn't just talking about a spanking. He talked about getting a switch, a paddle or whatever.
I wouldn't have minded him talking about an occasional spanking. I was spanked as a child and I always learned from it. But when you put a weapon (switch/paddle etc) in your hand, you're going too far for me. His sermon sickened me and I left that church, never to return.
My aunt asked me why I never went back, so I told her. She too was disappointed that her neighbor's father would preach that and she apologized for recommending that church to me. Ever since that day, I have been leery of speaking with this neighbor, because of the things her father said. She was a perfectly nice lady, but she (and the rest of the congregation) support the message that was spoken by continuing to attend that church.
Now, back to Obama, he has every right to attend whatever church he desires. But as leader (or in this case, potential leader) of this country, he will be judged by not only his actions, but the actions of those closest to him. Is it right? Not really. But it's what happens.
Mind you, I voted for Obama in the primary.
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Well, this should quiet down the rumours that Obama is a Muslim.
It should, but I bet it won't stop some.
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Obama cannot be held accountable for the actions of another.
Held accountable? No. I do think it calls into question of his judgement. I find it hard to believe that as a member of Wright's congragation he didn't know about these things. He choose to stay in this church, even though his minister has a known history of these type of comments. He stayed while running for the US Senate and the White House. He knew this would come up and yet he did nothing. Once it did come out his campaign made multiple statements finally ending with his seperation from Wright.
This isn't a matter of some wacked out preacher endorsing someone. This is his personal minister and long time friend.
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There is nothing in Obama's actions that would suggest that he holds similar views.
I agree.
#gmstrong
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j/c babe.. not to you
I TRY not to get involved in politics on the board anymore.. it happens every so on..
I don't like this Obama guy, I felt that his hope, hope, hope message was insulting to anyone with intelligence. We have a wide variety of problems (many brought on by the unholy neocon cabal of Bush) and now we have to work ourselves out of it. It is insulting to me that I have some junior Chicago rep telling me that my hope will change the world. Pfft..
I am a college grad, I can follow the bouncing ball. Tell me specifics Obama, tell me how you are going to do this.. I've seen enough snake oil salesmen. I'm tired of that.
This preacher of yours directly makes a liar out of you when he spouts that words of hate that you claim have no place in this campaign. You repudiate this man when it becomes convenient to do so. Politics as usual.
If Obama beats Hillary, I'll wait to see who McCain's Veep is then prolly vote McCain. And yes, if it's Colin Powell I'll abstain from voting. Powell advanced a pack of lies to the United Nations and should be ashamed of himself.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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i fail to understand the handle then
~Lyuokdea
I am a nationalist.
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Yeah, that's why i fail to understand the handle, it seems antithetical.
~Lyuokdea
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Yeah, that's why i fail to understand the handle, it seems antithetical.
~Lyuokdea
Anarchism and nationalism aren't mutually exclusive.
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I don't feel that Rev Wright is blaming white people for the problems for Black Americans
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admit I didn't hear everything that Rev Wright said, but I heard NOTHING that I consider racist.
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Rev Wright was speaking the truth, but people don't like to hear that.
Have you ever actually listened to a single word this man has said?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Anarchism and nationalism aren't mutually exclusive.
I mean, you could argue around it, especially using some old style anarchist theories, however this:
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I tend to believe our government moreso than their government.
I have plenty of issues with my government...but I'll stand by them before the government of anywhere else on the planet.
Is inherently contradictory to anarchism, unless you're one of the "circled A graffiti on a park bench" type anarchists. The whole point of nationalistic anarchism is that the government of a nation does not inherently exist, and instead institutionalizes oppression of the people, which themselves form the nation in the absence of the government.
Basically in order to believe in both nationalism and anarchism, you'd have to hate your own government more than any other, because you want to free your people (the nationalism part) from government oppression (the anarchy part).
If you accept any legitimate authority of your government over the people, you can't be an anarchist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_and_nationalism
~Lyuokdea
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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I view evangelical preachers and radio talk show hosts in a similar light.
Motivation to some people comes via passion. Just as some respond to a quiet logical discussion, others are inspired by a passionate tantrum.
One of the strategies that I have found effective over the years is to understand your competition, try and argue his position. It is a simple debating technique that allows you to better understand the position of others. And that does not mean that you have to distance yourself from your opposition, but understanding the position of others allows you to develop you position.
Well, how does this relate to the preacher, well, maybe Obama saw that he was an effective orator and could passionately present his point. Maybe he gained an understanding that to be effective, he should in his own way be as articulate. Does that mean that he agrees with the points made, no. But given how Obama is generally considered one of the best political speakers since John and Bobby Kennedy, maybe we have found his source of inspiration.
I recognize that this is pure speculation on my part, and the preacher was totally out of line with his thoughts which should be condemned. But are we arem't we judging a person on a 2 or 3 30 second soundbites, with Obama not being present, versus a career of service. I could not be held to that standard.
I have never walked out of a church, no matter what was said or the activities that surrounded although I came close a couple of times. I change the radio channel frequently.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
First, Africa is a continent, not a country!! And showing a commitment to the continent of Africa is no different that Jews having a commitment to Israel, or Italian to Italy, or Catholics to the Pope and the vatican!! So why is that scary and the others are not?
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A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
Yup, thats scary, trying to educate people in the African Diaspora! Maybe you should look up what Diaspora means before you get scared of it..LMAO!!!
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Not really all for you,
But isn't it amazing how we can question Obama about Rev. Wright but we do not question McCain on Rev. Hagee or Rod Parsley. McCain was up there smiling with them but of course when he says he does not believe in their rhetoric AFTER their endorsement. BTW - McCain did not denounce them!! And while we are at it, why should a Repub question anyone when someone like MR. 700 club (P.Roberstson) is a major player in the party,even after is USUAL threats against people in govt..etc!! GMAFB!!!
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McCain did not denounce them!!
But did he reject him? I mean, that is the relevant question when it comes to being commander in chief...
Last edited by TI84_Plus; 03/16/08 04:18 AM.
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Yup, thats scary, trying to educate people in the African Diaspora! Maybe you should look up what Diaspora means before you get scared of it.
Actually that is troubling....as if they feel they are removed from where they want to be.
I was one who never bought in to the Muslim thing. These reports don't make me feel that now, but they make me think he is a bit tighter to the cause then I previously did.
Funny......I wonder if we ever had a president who couldn't gain national security clearance??
If you or I had ties with this group, we would probably have trouble gaining such clearance.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If my pastor said things like that I ( the 9-11 quote) I would withdraw membership from my church immedietely.
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 03/16/08 09:49 AM.
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There most certainly is a White America and a Black America and a [insert race here] America.
I just searched every place, and I couldn't find White America, or Black America anywhere on the globe. Would you be so kind as to point out to me where those are at? 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I am not a true anarchist.  Do I have to go through why my handle is why it is... AGAIN? *sigh* Well, I think this nation needs a change in government, back to the original meaning of the U.S. Constitution. I believe that it will take a period of anarchism to bring it about. Essentially, I see us heading for another civil war.
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A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
First, Africa is a continent, not a country!! And showing a commitment to the continent of Africa is no different that Jews having a commitment to Israel, or Italian to Italy, or Catholics to the Pope and the vatican!! So why is that scary and the others are not?
You state that Africa is a country and then quote two examples that refer to countries (Jews to Israel and Italy to Italians) as being comparisons. Is your mind really that jumbled? The reference to the Pope is in no way comparable, unless this church claims to speak for the entirety of a religion. Are they (or you) making such a claim?
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A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
Yup, thats scary, trying to educate people in the African Diaspora! Maybe you should look up what Diaspora means before you get scared of it..LMAO!!!
You shouldn't be laughing your ass off. I don't think you understand the meaning of the world dispora. You can find the definition here.
So, are you expecting him to say that it is very possible that the person sitting next to him is a descendant of the person that sold his ancestors into slavery to someone else?
Like it or not, blacks from Africa are the ones that sold other blacks into slavery. White men, needing labor, were the purchasers.
Will he also state that blacks (in dispora) should return to Africa freely and willingly? If so, I suggest that he lead the way. Of course, as he is a racist and a hypocrite and living the good life in America, I don't expect such noble actions from the righteous reverend.
Put a white sheet over the man, have him espouse this stuff and you wouldn't be able to differentiate between him and the Ku Klux Klan.
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You would think that "reject" would be good enough but apparently now you have to denounce and reject!
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A - Senators have Top Secret Clearances. B - Now you are stating that since they are trying to educate people from the entire African Diaspora, that equates to being removed from where they want to be?? So that means that when an Jewish people support Israel or Irish people support Ireland and others, but trying to educate people from the African Diaspora is a problem! Humm.. 
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You would think that "reject" would be good enough but apparently now you have to denounce and reject!
Absolutely! This most-reverent and righteous preacher was part of Obama's campaign!
It's alright if you admit that Obama is your man and that you agree with him and no amount of scandal will cause your support to waver. Of course, I suspect that it is probably increasing your support for him.
The most righteous reverend Wright makes Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton look respectable by comparison. I don't think I've heard them utter such non-sense as "God DAMN America!" even once in a sermon.
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A - Senators have Top Secret Clearances.
No they don't.
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...but trying to educate people from the African Diaspora is a problem! Humm..
Sure. That's like allowing David Duke (former KKK Grand Wizard) to teach American history and him "educating" his students that slavery never existed in the United States, or those who claim that the Holocaust committed by the Nazis in Germany did not take place.
Let it rest man. You're trying to defend a blatant racist. It really puts you in a bad light. If you continue to do so, you risk being labeled a racist yourself.
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Diaspora is typically associated with people in a state of refuge.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You state that Africa is a country and then quote two examples that refer to countries (Jews to Israel and Italy to Italians) as being comparisons. Is your mind really that jumbled?
My mind is not jumbled but apparently yours is. I used the comparison between people who are directly supporting a country vs a church that believes in educating people from a continent!! Note, they did not say just one country but to educate a people from starting from a region or continent.
African Diaspora - The African diaspora was the movement of Africans and their descendants to places throughout the world such as the Americas, Europe, Asia, and Australia.
SO that church educating people from the african diaspora has what to to with this statement:
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So, are you expecting him to say that it is very possible that the person sitting next to him is a descendant of the person that sold his ancestors into slavery to someone else?
Like it or not, blacks from Africa are the ones that sold other blacks into slavery. White men, needing labor, were the purchasers.
Of course, another jumbled quote!!
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Will he also state that blacks (in dispora) should return to Africa freely and willingly? If so, I suggest that he lead the way.
Again, where did he say this, and if he did, why is this any different than Eurpoeans going back to whatever country their forefathers are from?? Again, Polish people go back to Poland, Irish to Ireland, so whats the big problem with people from Africa going back to their country of origin??.. Or was that another one of your jumbled thoughts!!...
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Apparently you do not know WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!! Senators do have Top Secret Clearances! But then again, by your arguements, that is nothing new. Quote:
Sure. That's like allowing David Duke (former KKK Grand Wizard) to teach American history and him "educating" his students that slavery never existed in the United States, or those who claim that the Holocaust committed by the Nazis in Germany did not take place.
And didn't D.Duke run for public office as a Republican.. So apparently he did not have to teach anything.
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Diaspora is typically associated with people in a state of refuge.
We will have to agree to disagree on that because in the context it was used, it means where a people from the African continent placed throughout the world.
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My mind is not jumbled but apparently yours is. I used the comparison between people who are directly supporting a country vs a church that believes in educating people from a continent!! Note, they did not say just one country but to educate a people from starting from a region or continent.
Really? Let's take a look at EXACTLY what you wrote:
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First, Africa is a continent, not a country!! And showing a commitment to the continent of Africa is no different that Jews having a commitment to Israel, or Italian to Italy, or Catholics to the Pope and the vatican!! So why is that scary and the others are not?
If you can't even remember what you wrote, how can anyone take you seriously. Your mind is confused.
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African Diaspora - The African diaspora was the movement of Africans and their descendants to places throughout the world such as the Americas, Europe, Asia, and Australia.
Would you like to expound on exactly what you think he is speaking about? I'm not sure that you and him agree (or maybe you do) on what the "African people in diaspora" refers to.
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SO that church educating people from the african diaspora has what to to with this statement:
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So, are you expecting him to say that it is very possible that the person sitting next to him is a descendant of the person that sold his ancestors into slavery to someone else?
Like it or not, blacks from Africa are the ones that sold other blacks into slavery. White men, needing labor, were the purchasers.
Of course, another jumbled quote!!
Not at all. The diaspora that he is talking about is slavery. He is, of course, omitting the role that Africans themselves played.
If you are suggesting that he is speaking to internal displacements within Africa, then I think you are seriously mistaken. I also believe that Obama's participation in this church is a severe liability to his campaign. I certainly don't mind that fact because I don't like Obama's stated policies anyway.
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Will he also state that blacks (in dispora) should return to Africa freely and willingly? If so, I suggest that he lead the way.
Again, where did he say this, and if he did, why is this any different than Eurpoeans going back to whatever country their forefathers are from?? Again, Polish people go back to Poland, Irish to Ireland, so whats the big problem with people from Africa going back to their country of origin??.. Or was that another one of your jumbled thoughts!!...
Because I don't hear those of Irish, Polish or any other heritage clamoring about some diaspora. I also don't hear them shouting "God DAMN America!" In my view, the racist reverend should invest in some land in Africa and retire there.
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Apparently you do not know WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!! Senators do have Top Secret Clearances! But then again, by your arguements, that is nothing new.
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And didn't D.Duke run for public office as a Republican.. So apparently he did not have to teach anything.
Yes... and as a Democrat as well. Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK grand wizard and a Democrat from West Virginia would also have a Top Secret clearance!
In fact, the Democratic party has a long history of racism. The Dixiecrats are only one example of this.
I find the volume of your ignorance about history and reality to be absolutely stunning. I haven't concluded whether your ignorance is accidental (just not knowing) or deliberate (knowing but rejecting).
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There most certainly is a White America and a Black America and a [insert race here] America.
I just searched every place, and I couldn't find White America, or Black America anywhere on the globe. Would you be so kind as to point out to me where those are at?
Is there racial tension in America? Last time I checked there is still - hence White America and Black America and whatever race you want to throw in as well. There are whites who are anti-black and blacks that are anti-white, so yes there is a White America and a Black America.
If you don't believe that then it's you that is
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I don't believe America deserved the attacks of 9-11, but we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past.
Yeah but if your momma was on the floor of the WTC that was smacked by that airplane you hardly would be saying "we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past". 
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Would you like to expound on exactly what you think he is speaking about? I'm not sure that you and him agree (or maybe you do) on what the "African people in diaspora" refers to.
Well I would think that anyone talking about the "African Diaspora" would be talking about the quote below since that is the definition! OR should we listen to what your limited knowledge has told you what it mean!!
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African Diaspora - The African diaspora was the movement of Africans and their descendants to places throughout the world such as the Americas, Europe, Asia, and Australia.
.
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Not at all. The diaspora that he is talking about is slavery. He is, of course, omitting the role that Africans themselves played.
Of course - another stupid statement, if the Diaspora he is talking about is the definition I gave not, slavery dimwit! And since you so knowledgeable about slavery and the parts that the Africans played, did they know that the Europeans were enslaving people in Chattel slavery?? And do you know who started Chattel slavery?? So please talk about what you know, which is not much!!
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Because I don't hear those of Irish, Polish or any other heritage clamoring about some diaspora. I also don't hear them shouting "God DAMN America!"
But you do hear them stating their support for their homelands, just like anyone else from anywhere else here in America!! And here in America, a person can agree or disagree with the statements of his pastor! Which Obama said he disagreed with. But of course that is never good enough! Also, my first pick was Biden, but now Obama 08!! 
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I don't believe America deserved the attacks of 9-11, but we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past.
Yeah but if your momma was on the floor of the WTC that was smacked by that airplane you hardly would be saying "we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past".
Actually, I'd probably feel more strongly that way
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Quote:
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I don't believe America deserved the attacks of 9-11, but we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past.
Yeah but if your momma was on the floor of the WTC that was smacked by that airplane you hardly would be saying "we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past".
Actually, I'd probably feel more strongly that way
Why ? Does she think you have a screw loose as well
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't believe America deserved the attacks of 9-11, but we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past.
Yeah but if your momma was on the floor of the WTC that was smacked by that airplane you hardly would be saying "we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past".
I also imagine I'd feel more strongly.
One of the sadder things about that day is that innocent citizens were punished for the sins of its government. That is usually the recurring pattern -- the people, not the government are the ones who pay. Terrorism, war, sanctions, etc.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 805
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 805 |
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I also imagine I'd feel more strongly.
Not me....I totally disagree with "we certainly had it coming for everything we have done in the past". Nothing excuses what those scumbags did on 9/11 regardless if you believe America is somehow guilty of all these sins in the world. I do believe that some of Americas foreign policy is whack but c'mon man.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
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Nothing excuses what those scumbags did on 9/11 regardless if you believe America is somehow guilty of all these sins in the world.
Explaining why it's happened isn't excusing it.
But food for thought -- if I cited the staggering number of civilians we've killed, I'm certain it would be excused in one form or another.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
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[Nothing excuses what those scumbags did on 9/11
I dont think anybody excused them for what those scumbags did, but what they did, did not excuse the things our goverment had done previously either. I think if I had family who was a victim of 9/11 I would be angry at both. For someone to say innocent people desrved to die for our goverments previous actions is waaay out of line.
With that said, to the original subject at hand, this is not alone going to turn me away from Obama, but it will certainly make me take a closer look at the man and his ideals and my support for him.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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