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[black people are generally very accepting of white people. Whether you all choose to believe it or not.
You seem to have the impression that none of us grew up around black people. Maybe you dont realize that I went to a majority black Jr High and High school so I know that statement is hogwash. I went to JR High at Patrick Henry, which I dont know if you are familar with Cleveland or not but is in the Glenville area, right on the East Cleveland border. Several times I got suspended from the school bus and had to catch the RTA bus to school. I would get chased down the street simply for the fact that I was a " whiteboy" and didnt belong in their neighborhood. I dont see that happening to black students who come to the west side to go to school. Accepting my ass.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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My point is that saying things like God damn America in church is ridiculous.
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One thing that sticks out to me in all of these silly statements, ie," America is an international criminal", "this is the first time in my life I'm proud of my country" and especially, :God damn America", etc: is that theyre making "America" synonomous with the United States Government. It is possible to disagree with the way the government is run, but still love the country. In that case, you do your best to change things, not run around saying things that only show how ignorant you are. If they disagree with how the government is run, that's one thing, but if they HATE AMERICA,why dont they do us all a favor, including themselves, and leave. Hate offers no sollutions.
"Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of its way. It does not keep the country free. It did not settle the West. It does not educate. The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in the way." (Thoreau)
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Let me ask you something, if it were black people dying the river in Chicago, red, black, and green...how many of you would be accepting of that...yet I don't hear anybody complaining about how the Irish hate America because they celebrate their heritage by dying a public body of water...GREEN! I'm just curious about that.
Nobody is complaining about Blacks celebrating their African heritage. If the Irish were out there doing there ST Patrick day thing and were marching down the street yelling " God damn America" then there would be a problem. Do a little research into how the Irish were treated in the formative years of this nation. So there goes your ignorant theory of lumping all white people together.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Let me ask you something, if it were black people dying the river in Chicago, red, black, and green...how many of you would be accepting of that...yet I don't hear anybody complaining about how the Irish hate America because they celebrate their heritage by dying a public body of water...GREEN! I'm just curious about that.
Well, First St. Patrick was a Roman-Britain, he wasn't Irish, he was captured and held as a slave by some Irish raiders. He later returned to Ireland for missionary work.
He wasn't Irish, and it's a world-wide holiday. It's technically a holiday to honor the person, not a culture. By default it has taken on the Irish characteristics.
Kinda like MLK day, without the parties. not that people wouldn't party for MLK day, just no one holds them.
You don't really think that the all of the people that party on St. Patricks day are Irish do you? Most don't even care who he was, or that it's Irish, it's just a reason to party anymore. Much like Christmas is just about getting gifts to most, and has nothing to do with Christ's birth. Easter is about candy and Easter baskets, not about Christ's resurrection.
Welcome to the modern world. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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[black people are generally very accepting of white people. Whether you all choose to believe it or not.
You seem to have the impression that none of us grew up around black people. Maybe you dont realize that I went to a majority black Jr High and High school so I know that statement is hogwash. I went to JR High at Patrick Henry, which I dont know if you are familar with Cleveland or not but is in the Glenville area, right on the East Cleveland border. Several times I got suspended from the school bus and had to catch the RTA bus to school. I would get chased down the street simply for the fact that I was a " whiteboy" and didnt belong in their neighborhood. I dont see that happening to black students who come to the west side to go to school. Accepting my ass.
KING
Sorry for you, but you're one person.
I went through my own problems going to predominantly white catholic schools...Since this ties in, I'll elaborate about one in particular. I went to St. Ann's School on Cedar and Coventry. The students and some teachers treated the few black faces their like second class citizens...and I had to fight as well. Anyway, this CHURCH had no problems showing their unwavering support for Ireland, and the Irish community. Are we to hold a grudge against them as well?
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I can't disagree with the point that the government gets in the way, but what does that have to do with hating americans and saying that innocent people deserved to be killed on 9-11. What does that have to do with DAMNING AMERICA, or asking God to damn America. It is disturbing to know that the possible president to be attends a church where a pastor holds these views
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Sorry for you, but you're one person.
Im sorry but this statement ticks me off. I had a couple of buddies grow up in an all black neighborhood and their lives were hell. Oh well I gues its just that they are a few people. 
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Let me ask you something, if it were black people dying the river in Chicago, red, black, and green...how many of you would be accepting of that...yet I don't hear anybody complaining about how the Irish hate America because they celebrate their heritage by dying a public body of water...GREEN! I'm just curious about that.
Nobody is complaining about Blacks celebrating their African heritage. If the Irish were out there doing there ST Patrick day thing and were marching down the street yelling " God damn America" then there would be a problem. Do a little research into how the Irish were treated in the formative years of this nation. So there goes your ignorant theory of lumping all white people together.
KING
You are clearly glossing over the point. I'm well aware that the Irsih were treated like black people when they got here...don't assume to know my intelligence.
Why do you think there is such a mixing of bloodlines between Africans and Irish...they were both second class citizens...My great grandfather was Irish...but I'm sure you knew that since you know so much about me.
The point isn't screaming "God damn America" but taking an American landmark and putting you ethnicity over it. I seriously doubt the reception would be quite as welcome if it were blacks, or arabs, or Mexicans.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Sorry for you, but you're one person.
Im sorry but this statement ticks me off. I had a couple of buddies grow up in an all black neighborhood and their lives were hell. Oh well I gues its just that they are a few people.
pretty much...just like not all black people who grew up in white neighborhoods were treated like dirt...I was, but that's not everyone!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I think you are blowing it out of proportion.
He was just showing his displeasure against America. I do not believe he thought that people DESERVED to die in 9-11, I think he was saying that we had it coming. That's very different.
Example: If a bully teased and tormented on one little kid all throughout school, and the small kid eventually snaps and kills him - the bully didn't deserve to die, but he had it coming.
That may not be the best example but it shows my point.
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[
Sorry for you, but you're one person.
I went through my own problems going to predominantly white catholic schools...Anyway, this CHURCH had no problems showing their unwavering support for Ireland, and the Irish community. Are we to hold a grudge against them as well?
So we agree that it goes both ways right?? Yes we are both one person, but I am sure we are not the only ones it happened too. As a matter of fact I KNOW for a fact I am not the only one it happened to but the point is it goes both ways.
Once again I say to you, but you choose to ignore it. There is nothing wrong with supporting your roots but did the Irish Catholic school you go to ever " damn America" ? I think the African culture is a beautiful thing, I have been to African cultural festivals and weddings that were African themed and they were great. I think it would be a great thing for more of the black community to embrace their African culture and live by its ideals. In the end though it is OK to embrace your cultural roots without damning the country you are living in.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Well, First St. Patrick was a Roman-Britain, he wasn't Irish, he was captured and held as a slave by some Irish raiders. He later returned to Ireland for missionary work.
He wasn't Irish, and it's a world-wide holiday. It's technically a holiday to honor the person, not a culture. By default it has taken on the Irish characteristics.
That's the point, everything is green, and it's widely known as an Irish holiday...PERIOD! I know the holiday is for the person, but the celebration is about the Irish culture...green beer, corned beef and cabbage...etc.
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You don't really think that the all of the people that party on St. Patricks day are Irish do you? Most don't even care who he was, or that it's Irish, it's just a reason to party anymore.
But they all know it's Irish...you can't escape that.
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Much like Christmas is just about getting gifts to most, and has nothing to do with Christ's birth. Easter is about candy and Easter baskets, not about Christ's resurrection.
But people know the culture behind the holidays, whether they choose to embrace it or not, is a personal choice.
Welcome to the modern world.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I dont see that happening to black students who come to the west side to go to school. Accepting my ass.
Sorry that happened to you but blacks were chased on the west side of Cleveland in the 70s and 80s. So both sides had their problems. But that still does not answer ndutyme's question? When other groups celebrate their heritage/religion/culture, its not a problem, when African Americans do it, its racist!!
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In the end....back to the subject.....this probably will hurt Obama...and to bad really, the guy ran a good campaign really.
What this will do is give the super delegates the excuse they need to throw their vote for Clinton.
What is with this super delegage thing anyway??...Almost like the Dems need a way to fix things if the people of their party vote for the wrong person....get it to convention then fix it there.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I do agree with that for the most part. I don't know if I would say people consider it racist, but it's definitely not accepted as much as other cultures even to this day.
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You are clearly glossing over the point. I'm well aware that the Irsih were treated like black people when they got here...don't assume to know my intelligence.
Why do you think there is such a mixing of bloodlines between Africans and Irish...they were both second class citizens...My great grandfather was Irish...but I'm sure you knew that since you know so much about me.
Im not glossing anything over. I never really thought there was much of a mixing of Irish and African AMerican blood because in general the Irsih were very racist against blacks because they felt the mass influx of blacks from the south would threaten there labor jobs and the ghettos they lived in, Itlalians were in the same boat. In a lot of cases their fears came to fruition, if you look at many of the neighborhoods that are predominantly black ghettos now, a good many of those were old Irish or Italian neighborhoods.
KING
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So we agree that it goes both ways right?? Yes we are both one person, but I am sure we are not the only ones it happened too. As a matter of fact I KNOW for a fact I am not the only one it happened to but the point is it goes both ways.
Yes, we agree that it can go both ways
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Once again I say to you, but you choose to ignore it.
What am I ignoring?
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There is nothing wrong with supporting your roots but did the Irish Catholic school you go to ever " damn America" ? I think the African culture is a beautiful thing, I have been to African cultural festivals and weddings that were African themed and they were great. I think it would be a great thing for more of the black community to embrace their African culture and live by its ideals. In the end though it is OK to embrace your cultural roots without damning the country you are living in.
You're assuming that the two go hand in hand...and they do not.
You're also neglecting the fact that there are many white...a lot of them post on this board, that seem to have a problem when black people embrace their African heritage and culture. They seem to think that we're putting Africa before America...some are, some aren't, but they don't see the difference. I call myself and African-American...why? I am a person of African descent that was born in and resides in America. Why should any person...let alone a white person, have a problem with that, when Europenan cultures still claim their heritage...ie...Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American...nobody seems to have a problem with that.
Secondly, people can damn America all they want to. I can't say that the history of this country has left me with a lot of pride in it. But this is where I was born, this is where I live. That doesn't mean I hate America, I just wish she would behave herself a little more accordingly sometimes.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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You are clearly glossing over the point. I'm well aware that the Irsih were treated like black people when they got here...don't assume to know my intelligence.
Why do you think there is such a mixing of bloodlines between Africans and Irish...they were both second class citizens...My great grandfather was Irish...but I'm sure you knew that since you know so much about me.
Im not glossing anything over. I never really thought there was much of a mixing of Irish and African AMerican blood because in general the Irsih were very racist against blacks because they felt the mass influx of blacks from the south would threaten there labor jobs and the ghettos they lived in, Itlalians were in the same boat. In a lot of cases their fears came to fruition, if you look at many of the neighborhoods that are predominantly black ghettos now, a good many of those were old Irish or Italian neighborhoods.
KING
I can show you a great many black people that have Irish in their blood starting with me and my exgirlfriend for starters
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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When other groups celebrate their heritage/religion/culture, its not a problem, when African Americans do it, its racist!!
The problem is the celebrating it everyday.
People who fly rebel flags everyday are just celebrating their culture??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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In the end....back to the subject.....this probably will hurt Obama...and to bad really, the guy ran a good campaign really.
What this will do is give the super delegates the excuse they need to throw their vote for Clinton.
What is with this super delegage thing anyway??...Almost like the Dems need a way to fix things if the people of their party vote for the wrong person....get it to convention then fix it there.
I'm willing to overlook the whole pimp comment you made, and let it slide...I'll assume it was a joke.
I don't think this will hurt as much as you may think. It will scare some white people...but those people were already scared and just needed an excuse to not vote for him...well they have one now.
The super delegate thing is some BS, and if it comes down to that, I think I'll be done with politics in general...I despise most of what the republicans stand for, but at least they are consistent...the dems are phony back stabbers that smile in your face.
I've always considered myself an independent, who normally votes democratic, but that is about to change, especially if this super delegate thing robs Obama, or Clinton for that matter. If she wins, she wins, she should have her nomination taken away by some failsafe of the party to ultimately nominate who they want and not who the people want.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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When other groups celebrate their heritage/religion/culture, its not a problem, when African Americans do it, its racist!!
The problem is the celebrating it everyday.
People who fly rebel flags everyday are just celebrating their culture??
Sure are, and nobody has a problem with it...now when that flag is flown over the state capitol...then there's a problem!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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You're also neglecting the fact that there are many white...a lot of them post on this board, that seem to have a problem when black people embrace their African heritage and culture. They seem to think that we're putting Africa before America...some are, some aren't, but they don't see the difference. I call myself and African-American...why? I am a person of African descent that was born in and resides in America.
Well I can only speak for myself and not all whiteys. I have no problem with ANYBODY celebrating their culture and not only do I encourage it, I like to participate in it. I have a pretty culturally diverse group of people I am friends with and associate with. Italian,black,Mexcian, Colombian, Puerto Rican, Scotish, English(me too), and I enjoy all of their cultures and their celebrations and holidays. Coronas on Cinco De Mayo, Guiness on St Pattys day, Mojitos whenever I hang out with my buddy and his COlombian wife, and Colt 45 on MLK day 
KING
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I thought that when you fly the flag of a country that went to war with the US, that was an act of treason?? And thats not me, that's the US constitution!....Good try though!!
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When other groups celebrate their heritage/religion/culture, its not a problem, when African Americans do it, its racist!!
The problem is the celebrating it everyday.
People who fly rebel flags everyday are just celebrating their culture??
Sure are, and nobody has a problem with it...
That is not true, a great many people have a problem with the display of the rebel flag, quite a few of them white.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I thought that when you fly the flag of a country that went to war with the US, that was an act of treason?? And thats not me, that's the US constitution!....Good try though!!
So its treasonous to fly a Japanese or a German flag in this country? That makes no sense.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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When other groups celebrate their heritage/religion/culture, its not a problem, when African Americans do it, its racist!!
The problem is the celebrating it everyday.
People who fly rebel flags everyday are just celebrating their culture??
Sure are, and nobody has a problem with it...
That is not true, a great many people have a problem with the display of the rebel flag, quite a few of them white.
KING
They can have their own personal problems with it, as I do, but there's nothing I can do about it, and no point in getting bent out of shape. There's no marches and protests outside of people's houses for flying the confederate flag!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I'm willing to overlook the whole pimp comment you made, and let it slide...I'll assume it was a joke.
Well thank-you. I figured one slightly more absurd comment among many would shake(or wake) things up.
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I've always considered myself an independent,
I don't see how that can be if you despise most everything the republicans stand for??
Really man....this has been a 2 party deal for a long time. I guess the Bullmoose Party with Teddy was the last time a 3rd party came close ...when was that....1912??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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They can have their own personal problems with it, as I do, but there's nothing I can do about it, and no point in getting bent out of shape. There's no marches and protests outside of people's houses for flying the confederate flag!
As there would be none outside your house if you hung up a red,green, and black flag.
There have been many protests based on the rebel flag being flown, most of them about flying it over the capitol buildings but there have been business' boycotted for flying the rebel flag and people have been yelled at it, and called names.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I thought that when you fly the flag of a country that went to war with the US, that was an act of treason?? And thats not me, that's the US constitution!....Good try though!!
I can see talking the constitution with you wouldn't broaden my already good understanding of the document.
Here is a clue....it is constitutional to burn the US flag.
Texas v Johnson would be a good place to start...and then you can work back from there.
It sort of explains the whole idea of symbolic expression.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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He was just showing his displeasure against America. I do not believe he thought that people DESERVED to die in 9-11, I think he was saying that we had it coming. That's very different.
Example: If a bully teased and tormented on one little kid all throughout school, and the small kid eventually snaps and kills him - the bully didn't deserve to die, but he had it coming.
That may not be the best example but it shows my point.
I do not think that the people who died on 9-11 had it coming. They were just regular people going to work for the most part.
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Sorry, I was typing too fast for my own good and working. What I should have said that yes, it is an act to Treason to fly the confederate flag on a govt building in the US. And instead of trying to reason with states that want to fly it, just take them to court on the basis them breaking the law as far as the 13th and 14th amendment. Or hit them with treason! ( Remember, the Confederate states declared war on the US). Now if the individual wants to fly that flag, they are probably protected by the first amendment.( Freedom of Speech). Me personally, I thought we lived in the United States of America. why don't southerners get lumped into a role of people who hate the US ssince they support a govt that wanted to REPLACE the US Govt???
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I will take up your advice!
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. why don't southerners get lumped into a role of people who hate the US ssince they support a govt that wanted to REPLACE the US Govt???
Because not all southerners fly the confederate flag.Not all black people are getting lumped together as racist and anti American, in this case only that POS fake Rev Wright is. The question being, is Obama's affiliation and support of this church , led by this fake man of god, going to hurt his chances at the Democratic nomination, and/or being President??
KING
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Wait now King,
Maybe I was wrong to say all southerners but then why don't the ones who fly the confederate flag, don't they hate America just like you say Rev Wright does?? Yes, his affiliation with Rev.Wright will hurt him with some folks. But again, since we are using the guilt by association rule, then don't those people hate America also since they fly the flag of a govt that went to war with America??
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He was just showing his displeasure against America. I do not believe he thought that people DESERVED to die in 9-11, I think he was saying that we had it coming. That's very different.
Example: If a bully teased and tormented on one little kid all throughout school, and the small kid eventually snaps and kills him - the bully didn't deserve to die, but he had it coming.
That may not be the best example but it shows my point.
I do not think that the people who died on 9-11 had it coming. They were just regular people going to work for the most part.
I did not mean the people that died had it coming, but America did.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,152
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,152 |
In regards to the article you posted... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html Quote:
The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.
From what I have been able to find (NOTE; this article is from what appears to be a right wing web site) some of this is confirmed...
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/flashback-nyt-on-obamas-wright-disinvite
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But Mr. Wright said Mr. Obama called him the night before the Feb. 10 announcement and rescinded the invitation to give the invocation.
“Fifteen minutes before Shabbos I get a call from Barack,” Mr. Wright said in an interview on Monday, recalling that he was at an interfaith conference at the time. “One of his members had talked him into uninviting me,” Mr. Wright said, referring to Mr. Obama’s campaign advisers.
Some black leaders are questioning Mr. Obama’s decision to distance his campaign from Mr. Wright because of the campaign’s apparent fear of criticism over Mr. Wright’s teachings, which some say are overly Afrocentric to the point of excluding whites.
Bill Burton, a spokesman for the Obama campaign, said the campaign disinvited Mr. Wright because it did not want the church to face negative attention. Mr. Wright did however, attend the announcement and prayed with Mr. Obama beforehand.
“Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church, but because of the type of attention it was receiving on blogs and conservative talk shows, he decided to avoid having statements and beliefs being used out of context and forcing the entire church to defend itself,” Mr. Burton said.
Instead, Mr. Obama asked Mr. Wright’s successor as pastor at Trinity, the Rev. Otis Moss III, to speak. Mr. Moss declined.
In recent weeks, word of Mr. Obama’s treatment of Mr. Wright has reached black leaders like the Rev. Al Sharpton and given them pause.
“I have not discussed this with Senator Obama in detail, but I can see why callers of mine and other clergymen would be concerned, because the issue is standing by your own pastor,” Mr. Sharpton said…
In Monday’s interview, Mr. Wright expressed disappointment but no surprise that Mr. Obama might try to play down their connection.
“When his enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli” to visit Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, Mr. Wright recalled, “with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.” Mr. Wright added that his trip implied no endorsement of either Louis Farrakhan’s views or Qaddafi’s.
Mr. Wright said that in the phone conversation in which Mr. Obama disinvited him from a role in the announcement, Mr. Obama cited an article in Rolling Stone, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama.”
According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”
So much for Mr. Obama not knowing anything about Mr. Wright’s outrageous remarks.
This article does not say anything about condeming his statements, but that doesn't mean he didn't. I think the leanings of this web site may have something to do with that.
Also listed on this web site is an article by Rolling Stone "The Radical Roots of Barack Obama" The thing is that if you do a web search it has been renamed "Destiny's Child".  Looks like RS is trying to protect their endorsed canidate.
The fact that Obama first posted his statement on Huffington Post is also a concern for some conservatives considering how left wing that online paper is.
I think Obama to this point is responding properly. I don't think he has really been caught in a lie, but I do think he is really losing his image of a true canidate of change. He looks more and more like what he really is, a typical politician.
I also think that if it can be proven that he was indeed in church on any days of these type of sermons he will be caught in a lie that will cause his president asparations to be destroyed.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,152
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,152 |
Quote:
Not really all for you,
But isn't it amazing how we can question Obama about Rev. Wright but we do not question McCain on Rev. Hagee or Rod Parsley. McCain was up there smiling with them but of course when he says he does not believe in their rhetoric AFTER their endorsement. BTW - McCain did not denounce them!! And while we are at it, why should a Repub question anyone when someone like MR. 700 club (P.Roberstson) is a major player in the party,even after is USUAL threats against people in govt..etc!! GMAFB!!!
There is a huge difference. These preachers are not close personal friends of McCain, and they aren't ministers of his church. McCain also has a long history of blasting ministers like Robertson and Falwell, and many believe the members of evangelican churches. I really don't think these paticular ministers were properly vetted (most likely intentionally) because he wanted a photo opt. What it proves is that he is a typical politcian, something all of us know that are on the right. I am also not sure he hasn't denounced statements by these two ministers. I do know he has not only denounced similar statements said by others, but went even further by denouncing those individuals who have similar things, setting off firestorms within the party.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349 |
Quote:
then don't those people hate America also since they fly the flag of a govt that went to war with America??
Does someone of Geman heritage that flys the german flag at Octoberfest hate America??and yes if some southerner flew a confederate flag and said " god damn America" he would be considered hateful of America. Generally people who fly the confederate flag profess their love and support for America.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,283 |
I'm sorry, but when did hating America become a sin or punishable offense?
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Will Obama's minister be his
undoing???
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