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shut up jay...stop sounding non-cocky and reasonable! You are a buckeye! be cocky! be unreasonable! BE an ASSS! 
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Hey candy....it's 9:20PM and....
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I'm not candy, but ...
the scUM still suck!!!!
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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Any year either team can win... doesn't matter who is more talented... who is ranked higher... or where the game will be played... it's the best rivalry in sports. Every year when they play you can toss all the records out because they don't mean jack. I'm thrilled as hell that Jim has done so well against UM... but it doesn't mean a damn thing... every year it's been a win by what? less than 7 points... I think all of the OSU games the last 5 or 6 years could have easily gone either way...
You think we dont realize that? You think we didnt have to hear the crap during the Knute Cooper years? Right now we are the hog with the big nuts and that gives us bragging rights, it will turn eventually no doubt and Michigan will have their turn......... after Tressel retires
I agree with you completely. Obviously OSU has been better the past few years, but not too long ago OSU was in the same situation as Michigan has been over the past few years. It is just frustrating to me when some of the OSU fans here completely write off Michigan and talk about how much better they are and how much better they will continue to be when no one knows anything yet. Let the situation play out before running your mouth. (Not directed at you Jay, just in general.)
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Well, thankfully I could care less what you think. 
Hilarious. 
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Maybe the mighty Vers should go speak at Ohio high schools and tell kids not to go to Michigan. Tell them how crappy the state and the university is.
I don't have the influence, but I really enjoyed your sarcasm.
Now, let me remind you what you said:
Give me a break. If you think RR needed Pryor to win games, you're going to be in for a rude awakening. Michigan will be fine.
I'm interested to see what happens when Tressel actually has to coach against someone with a pulse, something he hasn't had to do for seven years.
You might want to consider that the Browns play in Ohio, and therefore, many fans who frequent this board have connections to Ohio and are Ohio State fans. Yet, some of you guys constantly rip Ohio State and then get offended when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine.
Try showing a little respect to the majority. If not, be prepared to get some of what you give.
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But yeah, I guess Michigan can't recruit Ohio anymore huh Vers? Atleast you act like you know what you're talking about.
Well nas, I do know what I am talking about. In fact, I know a lot more about the high school to college recruiting process than you do. I can guarantee that.
There was a time when Michigan was favored by many young Ohioans. Cooper had little respect for high school football in the state and Michigan was winning. It was common for many of Ohio's best to go to UM. However, that tendency has changed under Tressel's direction. Ohio State is once again getting the majority of it's wanted in-state recruits. UM will always get some of Ohio's players, but that is simply because Ohio's high school football is far superior to Michigan's.
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I don't have a problem with too many people but you're just too old and bitter for me Vers.
Bitter? We got Pryor and we have been kicking your ass on the field for several years now. I'm not bitter at all. In fact, I am elated to being so far ahead of you guys. You are the one who sounds bitter.
Old? Bet I'm not old enough to kick your ass. *L* And that's real gutty. Pulling the old card. You know, when I was young...........we were raised to respect our elders and not belittle them for their age. Of course, I raised my kids the same way. And I am sure they are younger than you. Classy call, nas.
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I've already wasted enough time responding to your drivel.
Wasted your time on my drivel, huh?
Just know this..........quit bashing Ohio State on an Ohio message board. If not, you better grow some thicker skin.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I'm not candy, but ...
the scUM still suck!!!!
There is a lot of smack and borderline smack going on in this thread. We have a forum for this, please use it. Any further smack in this thread will result in suspensions.
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Departing U-M lineman blasts program Offensive lineman Justin Boren received his release papers from the Michigan football team and issued a statement regarding his departure from the Wolverines. Boren, the Wolverines' most experienced returning lineman, left the team on Monday, a day before the team's fifth spring practice under new coach Rich Rodriguez. "I regret leaving behind my friends and teammates, but I need to stand up for what I know is right," Boren said in a statement released Wednesday afternoon. "I wore the winged helmet with pride, whether we won or lost, whether things were going well or times were tough. "Michigan football was a family, built on mutual respect and support for each other from (former) Coach (Lloyd) Carr on down. We knew it took the entire family, a team effort, and we all worked together. I have great trouble accepting that those family values have eroded in just a few months. That same helmet, that I was raised on and proudly claimed for the last two years, now brings a completely different emotion to me, one that interferes with practicing and playing my best and mentally preparing for what is required. "That I am unable to perform under these circumstances at the level I expect of myself, and my teammates and Michigan fans deserve, is why I have made the decision to leave. To those of you outside the program, the loyal Michigan fans and alumni, I know you will have trouble understanding, but I do want to thank you for your years of support. I wish my teammates the best and will always be proud to have been a part of Michigan football over the past two years." Mike Boren, Justin's father and a former Michigan player, would not discuss further his son's plans. Justin Boren is expected to finish the semester at Michigan before transferring. Boren, a projected starter at left guard this fall as a junior, was the most experienced of Michigan's returning linemen. He started 14 games and played in 18 during his career. He informed Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez on Monday that he would not be returning. "We're forging ahead with the guys who play for Michigan," Rodriguez said Tuesday night when asked about Boren, adding he only talks about those who play for Michigan. Boren joins Alex Mitchell and Jeremy Ciulla as offensive linemen who have chosen not to return this year. That means on a team that will be down in terms of scholarship numbers, this is a position group lean in numbers and certainly in experience. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/SPORTS0201/803260444/1004/SPORTS
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"Michigan football was a family, built on mutual respect and support for each other from (former) Coach (Lloyd) Carr on down. We knew it took the entire family, a team effort, and we all worked together. I have great trouble accepting that those family values have eroded in just a few months. That same helmet, that I was raised on and proudly claimed for the last two years, now brings a completely different emotion to me, one that interferes with practicing and playing my best and mentally preparing for what is required.
Wow! That's strong stuff!
You know........I think schools like Ohio State and Michigan should hire guys w/at least some kind of a tie to the team or the state. OSU learned the hard way w/John Cooper. I wonder if Michigan is about to learn the hard way too?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Michigan will have a pretty good D but...
An offense quarterbacked by a walkon, who will be protected by up at least 3 and maybe 4 new linemen...which will not have the top 2 receiving threats back...as well as losing the university's all time leading rusher.
Oh yeah...and everybody on the team is learning a new scheme and new terminology.
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I wasn't really talking about this year's team. That kids comments were character slams. If true, Michigan is in bigger trouble. Of course, his comments may not be true.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I'd be interested to hear what Nas has to say on this subject... that really surprised me that he transferred... what's really surprising too is it's three linemen that have now transferred... wonder if they just don't like the line coach or what...
UM will be fine (might be hurting a bit this year) once RR gets in his own guys... but it doesn't surprise me that the players don't like the regime that much when compared to Carr... Carr (as much as I hate to say this) was a very classy coach who should for the most part be well respected... of course, if RR starts winning big at UM then not many will care how he does it...
<><
#gmstrong
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The new era of UM Football is eerily similar to the Steve Fisher era of UM basketball.
I would be worried if I was a UM football fan.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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The new era of UM Football is eerily similar to the Steve Fisher era of UM basketball.
This should be good, please explain.
Eat it Phil...
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Michigan will have a pretty good D but...
An offense quarterbacked by a walkon, who will be protected by up at least 3 and maybe 4 new linemen...which will not have the top 2 receiving threats back...as well as losing the university's all time leading rusher.
Oh yeah...and everybody on the team is learning a new scheme and new terminology.
I agree with a lot of what you said here, but the quarterback statement is dead wrong. Which walk-on are you talking about? Threet is a transfer, Cone is a scholarship player, as well as Justin Feagin. They are inexperienced at QB, but it's not like these players came in off the streets out of no where.
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I'd be interested to hear what Nas has to say on this subject... that really surprised me that he transferred... what's really surprising too is it's three linemen that have now transferred... wonder if they just don't like the line coach or what...
It hasn't surprised me at all. It's not a coincidence that the softest unit on the entire team would have the most players quitting. Especially when you consider the change in both offensive pace and philosophy. I would guess it's a lot to master just on the field, without even taking in to consideration the hell that seems to be the new S&C program. If it's going to be hard on anyone it's the big, fat, lazy guys that havn't seemed to be working all that hard.
In terms of numbers, you don't want to see lineman go but players that weren't playing up to their potential are a dime a dozen in my opinion. Long was the only player on the line that didn't practice the swinging gate blocking style that everyone else seemed to have mastered. There was a reason Henne had a bum shoulder the entire season.....because the stiffs up front couldn't keep him from getting planted on it when they played anyone with even a sniff of a pass rush.
With Boren specifically, he was said to really be put off by the new staff cursing and yelling as much as they have. Imagine that, football coaches yelling and cursing?  Also, he was apparently assigned to run drills with the second team during one or two of the early spring practices because the coaching staff thought he wasn't performing up to his ability. I guess the concept of something being used as a motivational tool is in the eye of the beholder. The prospect of working THIS hard and not starting was seemingly not an option for Boren.
As for his comments? He's lucky RR's policy is to not talk about players that do not play for Michigan. I have a feeling if he did, he would call the kid a big marshmallow. For him to imply that something "immoral" was going on is ridiculous. Considering WVU was grasping for straws with RR, if there was ANY indication whatsoever that he was doing anything inappropriate, especially with student athletes, they would have plastered it in the news immediately. Hell, they weren't beyond making up stories so if they had even one player at WVU that would have spoke out...the administration would have been all over it. When taking in to consideration how messy it was for a while, the fact that not ONE SINGLE player came out and had even ONE bad word to say about RR would lead me to believe he runs a clean ship.
In the end quitters do two things:
1.) They give up.
2.) And they blame their giving up on someone else.
It's not because it was too hard, it was because he needed to "stand up for what I know is right." Is anyone really buying this?
When the coaches had no problem immediately releasing him from his scholarship, so he could leave without resistance of any kind, what was his motive? Probably to not look like a complete softy? Think he wants to listen to everyone tell him how much of a baby he is because it was too physically demanding for him? I would guess not. So, why not just throw some vague comments against the wall and see what sticks. Anything that deflects the attention away from him (the quitter) and towards the program/coaches is gravy.
It would hold a little more weight if other position players were quitting as well but it's only the offensive lineman that are dropping. I guess I just don't see that as a coincidence at all. Everyone else (across the board) is adjusting to the change but the big, fat, slow lineman, that were used to running a 1950's style offense, are probably huffing and puffing.....maybe even puking on a daily basis. Physical, mental and emotional breaking points exist in every human and it seems the new strength and conditioning program coupled with the new football philosophy is pushing a few of the most likely to break personnel group (the OL) over the edge. Not surprising at all for me. That was the case on teams I played on as well.
Attrition is a natural process when a coaching change takes place. Especially when that change is from one school to another. RR is more Bo then Lloyd Carr (thank god) and some of the teddy bears that have been coddled by the homely father figure are having a tough time. I guess I don't see how weeding out those that aren't 100% committed is a bad thing? Michigan has a strong OL class coming in (6 total offensive lineman) so the numbers will be fine in the fall. Until then, weed away.
Ryan Mundy transferred from UM to WVU so he had a bit of a unique experience and said this:
"the staff at WVU ... Barwis included (S&C coach) ... made me question how much I really wanted to play football at times. When it was over, though, I felt fortunate for the experience."
Being pushed to your limits (in anything in life) isn't a bad thing but inevitably, it will make a few people look in the mirror.
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You raise many good points and they very well could be true. Unfortunately, you seem incapable of thinking beyond the homer's viewpoint.
Perhaps Michigan fans shouldn't turn a blind eye to every incident that comes out of Ann Arbor. I know that we OSU fans made a huge mistake w/bringing in John Cooper, who was an outsider.
Now..........I am not saying that the kid is right. In fact, you could be entirely correct about the "softie" comment. What I am saying is that it is wise to investigate things thoroughly rather than believing what you want to believe.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I know that we OSU fans made a huge mistake w/bringing in John Cooper, who was an outsider.
I dont get when people say this, Michigan fans and non fans a like, You dont have to be born, coached at or played at Michigan to be a "Michigan Man". By this line of thinking, Bo wasnt a Michigan man either.
Eat it Phil...
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To each their own.
All I know is that I am damn glad we got rid of that outsider........Cooper, and brought in a true Ohio man......Tressel.
Oh, and I am speaking in terms that go beyond winning and losing. As much as I hate Michigan, I have always respected them. Same way I respect the Steelers. They run their programs the right way. With class, integrity, and honesty.
I'm just not so sure that tradition will continue under the leadership of Rodriguez.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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The new era of UM Football is eerily similar to the Steve Fisher era of UM basketball.
This should be good, please explain.
No explanation necessary, its all right there. Draw your own conclusion.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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They run their programs the right way. With class, integrity, and honesty.
I'm just not so sure that tradition will continue under the leadership of Rodriguez.
I guess I just dont see why it wouldnt be run that way now, because I few players transferred?
The new staff is teaching a new system to a bunch of kids who were not recruited to play in this system, wasnt this to be expected?
Boren was reported to have a bad attitude well before RichRod was here, he was in Carr's doghouse because of the attitude last spring.
Obviously you dont want to see experienced guys on the line transfer, but I can honestly say Im not too worried about it. Its going to be rough next year for sure, and the media will have some at Michigans expense Im sure, its going to take some time.
Last edited by brownsfan2119; 03/27/08 12:56 PM.
Eat it Phil...
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No explanation necessary, its all right there. Draw your own conclusion.
Lol, whats right there? There is no comparison whatsoever between Fisher and Rodriguez other than maybe they are both white? Maybe they have the same religous beliefs? You made the statement, back it up.
Eat it Phil...
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You raise many good points and they very well could be true. Unfortunately, you seem incapable of thinking beyond the homer's viewpoint.
Homer's viewpoint? It's not a homer's viewpoint at all, it's called taking everything I know about the situation and deducting the most logical conclusion. RR has had open practices to the media, former players and coaches. You honestly think the media wouldn't be reporting ANY of this if there was even a SLIVER of truth to it? It's fine you hate Michigan but you just let it cloud your judgement a little too much.
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Perhaps Michigan fans shouldn't turn a blind eye to every incident that comes out of Ann Arbor. I know that we OSU fans made a huge mistake w/bringing in John Cooper, who was an outsider.
LOL. Are you serious Vers? A kid quitting is an "incident"? During a coaching change? While installing a new offense? And a more brutal set of physical requirements for players? It's not an "incident" it's the reality of change.
What other incidents might you be referring to out of curiosity that we keep "turning a blind eye to".... ?
As for Cooper, OSU fans hired him? No wonder he didn't work out. 
Michigan has had some great success with outsiders. Just because Ohio State hired an outsider that didn't work out doesn't mean Michigan will suffer the same fate. Fielding Yost, Fritz Crisler and Bo Schembechler are probably considered the 3 best coaches in Michigan History and none of them had any ties what-so-ever to the university. Bo obviously had a unique perspective on the rivalry but Yost (Stanford) and Crisler (Princeton) were completely oblivious to the situation and still had great success. An interesting parallel to RR being that Yost, who laid the groundwork for the UM program, was also a West Virginia native.
In the end you can either coach or you can't. People that want to put stock in where a person is from are just trying to justify results. Cooper didn't lose because he wasn't from Ohio, he lost because he couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag in a big game. End of story.
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The main benefit of hiring a coach with local ties is that he has ties to local recruits.
One of the biggest reasons OSU fans embraced Tressel when he was hired was we were sick of losing the best OH recruits and seeing them blossom elsewhere (usually UM or ND).
Another factor is that for whatever reason, OH tends to produce more head coaches than any other state in the union so it was frustrating to be the face of OH college football and not have one of them. (currently, Stoops, Meyer, Bo Pelini and even Les Miles all have OH roots...and we could go on all day).
Michigan doesn't currently have either problem. RR should recruit Michigan recruits just fine as Mich HS FB only produces a handful of top-level recruits each year and they by-and-large want to go to Michigan regardless of the coach.
So, I think Michigan will be fine with this transition and it should add some spice back into the rivalry that has stagnated recently because even though the games have been close, it's always seemed like Tressel was 5 moves ahead of Carr.
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I am the biggest Buckeye homer you will ever meet, but, Vers, I'm sorry dude, I agree with the Michigan fans on this one. RR is bringing a new style of offense that is gonna be quite exciting to watch for years to come. RR's offense is new, and it is a total opposite of what Carr ran. Therefore, it is only natural that current players aren't going to feel comfortable at UM. However, if Michigan's current players give the new offense a chance, I'm sure they and the program will develop nicely.
On another note, like you, I'm glad Tress is at Ohio State. I also love the fact that Tress is from the Cleveland area and had ties to Ohio State before he was hired. But, don't think that Rich Rodriguez isn't commited to Michigan's tradition, he has already had a huge football alumni event where he welcomed all former Michigan players to come back and become a part of the current team.
Don't forget that Rich Rodriguez took a struggling West Virginia program under his wing, and turned them into a National Championship contender. If he did it at West Virginia, he can easily do it at Michigan.
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I know that we OSU fans made a huge mistake w/bringing in John Cooper, who was an outsider.
I dont get when people say this, Michigan fans and non fans a like, You dont have to be born, coached at or played at Michigan to be a "Michigan Man". By this line of thinking, Bo wasnt a Michigan man either.
I agree... I think it's nice to bring in a home grown guy when able to... but Bo was an OSU guy... and Tressel is a BW guy 
I don't care where you come from if you can coach... and I would suspect that RR has to know how big the rivalry is and how big the tradition is at UM... he'd be an idiot not to preach that along with his own philosphy...
again, I can't stand that guy... but he can coach, and I expect him to turn their program around.
<><
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Okay man.
You completely missed my intent, but that's fine.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Didn't feel like digging up who mentioned it but for people saying that Michigan doesn't have a spread option QB coming in here's their 2008 commit Justin Feagin from FLA (25 rushing, 19 passing TD's his senior year.): He's #2 in White. These are highlights from the state championship game...thankfully, he won't be playing safety at Michigan.  The run about 50 seconds in is video game like. http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1366492793&channel=1274147214
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The Cradle of Coaches is a nickname given to Miami University in Oxford, Ohio for producing star football coaches including Earl Blaik, Paul Brown, Woody Hayes, Bill Arnsparger, George Little, Weeb Ewbank, Sid Gillman, Ara Parseghian, Bo Schembechler, John Pont, Carmen Cozza, Bill Mallory, Jim Tressel, Joe Novak, Ron Zook, Dick Crum, Paul Dietzel, William Narduzzi, Randy Walker, John Harbaugh, Terry Hoeppner, and Sean Payton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_CoachesJust wiki, but ALOT of Ohio coaches.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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