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Cleveland Browns' Andra Davis, Willie McGinest get pay cuts Sunday, March 16, 2008 Tony Grossi Plain Dealer Reporter Not everybody with the Browns is getting contract extensions and big pay raises these days. The team quietly reduced the contracts of two prominent former starters on defense - linebackers Andra Davis and Willie McGinest. Both players now are part of three-men rotations at their respective positions. In December 2005, Davis signed a five-year contract extension for $20 million. That deal included a base salary in 2008 of $3 million, plus a $200,000 roster bonus. The base salaries would rise to $3.75 million in '09 and $4.1 million in 2010. But that contract is no more. The latest figures posted on the NFL players union Web site show a base salary this year of $1.675 million for Davis. And the last two years of the deal have been wiped out. The 44 percent pay cut might have been made up in a signing bonus to rewrite the deal to end after this season. Davis, 29, saw his playing time reduced last year because of the emergence of Leon Williams and the use of different defensive packages. His 104 tackles were his lowest total in four years, when he missed five games with an injury. Davis has the most tenure of any Butch Davis draft choice. He was a fifth-round pick in 2002. Besides him, only long snapper Ryan Pontbriand (2003), tight end Kellen Winslow (2004) and safety Sean Jones (2004) remain of the four Davis drafts from 2001-04. McGinest could have made as much as $2.9 million this season in the final year of his three-year Browns contract. But that was reduced to $1.9 million after he failed to hit a Pro Bowl incentive. The players union lists McGinest's salary at $900,000 - a 47 percent cut. McGinest, 36, played in 13 games after having back surgery in the off-season. He made 12 starts in the base defense and found himself actually playing tackle in some sub packages late in the season because of injuries to other players. Both players have playing-time incentives that could get them back to their original levels. Messages seeking comment from the players' agents were not returned. http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindea...&thispage=1
Go Browns!!!
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I was tickled when I saw this earlier today.......smart business moves continue to be made in Berea on a daily basis. 
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Good news on the financial side...BUT...HOPEFULLY...this does not "guarantee" either McGinest or Davis a roster spot?
IMO, their roster spots should be earned, not inherited
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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j/c and playing devil's advocate...
What happenned to all the "love for veteran players" ala Baxter?
I don't mind keeping these guys and paying them less money makes me even more ok with keeping them...
I just find it odd that the infatuation with Baxter didn't extend itself to these two...when will Big Ted sign?
Now...please re-read the first sentence above
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I do believe the players first have to agree to this, if I'm right then I applaud the players for understanding and taking a team first approch to winning over finacial gains. both undertsand thier carrers might be coming to and end and wanna do everything for this team to get a ring
That is veteran leadership, others see it hear it and start to understand thiers more to this game than $$$$...that kind of selflessness builds championships.
Thanks Andra & Willie
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wsu....and you can reread my opinion above, AGAIN!
Just because a veteran does something nice like restructuring a contract...it should not guarantee a roster spot.
Those spot should be "earned" in camp, not handed out in return for favors such as restructuring contracts....jmho...mac
Last edited by mac; 03/16/08 08:55 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Quote:
Just because a veteran does something nice like restructuring a contract...it should guarantee a roster spot.
Should not I'm sure you meant to say.
These players both fill a needed position on the team this year, and although I have opined that McGinest is not much of a contributor on the field anymore he can still be a huge contributing factor due to his experience.
It's a win-win situation for this club, no doubt in my mind at all.
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Quote:
j/c and playing devil's advocate...
What happenned to all the "love for veteran players" ala Baxter?
you lost me on that one.... All Baxter got was a second chance. Its basically an incentive laiden contract. Its not like the browns showed him alot of love by a guarantee of millions.
I see these restructurings as shrewed business deals and i'm glad to see the browns doing this. OF course, there will come a day when a vet is not willing to take the pay cut -then it will be interesting to see how things are handled.
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Class moves by Willie and Andra. Neither of them are the best players, but they are both great guys, team leaders, and complete class acts. These are the type of players that every team wants. Just in case anyone thinks I am calling Willie and Andra horrible, I'm not.
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Awesome! Great locker room guys, great team leaders. Even though their roles will diminish as the season progresses, barring injuries of course, this is a solid move for both side. Way to go Phil!
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1) Do the players agree to do this? or can the Browns front office demand it?
2) It has been said that the 09' draft is what Savage will been waiting for, and that also, he is trying to have the best team for this upcoming 08 schedule, which is pretty tough.
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Anyone else notice the use of the phrase "prominent former starters"
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Quote:
The players agree to it.
Yes the players agree to it, but dont believe for a minute that something isnt given to them to get them to agree to the cuts in base salary. Usually the player isnt losing any money it is just restructured into signing bonuses.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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mac...did you miss my "j/c" or did someone pee in your Wheaties this morning...easy big fella, I read your post and it's all good.
Bigfoot,
Second chance for Baxter? Are you kidding me?
Look...I want the guy to make it back and be productive. HOWEVER, we are showing him more apparant love than we are LCB...and now two other well-respected vets take a big pay cut. Where's their love?
Baxter should have started last year on the PUP list and it could have hurt us that we were playing with one less available roster spot.
Big Ted was done before last season started, yet he too was on the active roster and that could have hurt us as well.
The pickings for available replacements were surely slimmer when we finally inactivated these guys than they were earlier in the year.
Look...the only reason I went all devil's advocate was because we were having a big 'ole group hug about how great the Browns are because they are giving Baxter a chance to make history. The Browns are already great.
Consider my comments a reverse group hug due to the fact that 2-3 other guys are getting lesser deals - when the probably SHOULD be getting lesser deals - yet Baxter gets another pass. I'd call it his 3rd chance...more than that if you figure missed games prior to the disaster knee blowouts.
Lastly, I like Baxter. But I like LCB and Willie too...shoot, I'd like to have Bernie as our #3 QB and Clay at backup LB. I just think we all got a little too giddy with the Baxter re-signing when the harsh reality is that when a guy is done...he is done.
As I said before, I'm ok with it all...but if Baxter starts the year on the active 53 and then never makes it on the field...AGAIN...I will further wonder what that is all about.
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All Pro
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Exactly !  ....Phil will keep us moving in the right direction....
The Mammal
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Quote:
j/c and playing devil's advocate...
WSU...Is it ok to respond to the "playing devil's advocate" part of your post?...
No pee in my wheaties...     ....mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Hooray! another year of slow terrible linebacker play, missed tackles, missed sacks. Running backs zooming by, blown coverage, great move.  look there is a reason they accepted a pay cut. Becuase to put it nicely, they both suck. In todays NFL if you take pay cut and you werent injured for a 1-2 seasons, your bad.
I know many believe now they are a baragain. Trash is never a baragain no matter how little you pay, your still buying trash.
I'm still holding out hope of picking up Al Wilson and Clark Haggans on short term deals. Neither are great but you can't go much lower than where we are. If we can find a few bodies at LB maybe both Davis and Willie wil be june 1st cuts.
Reality: Both will be starting opening day. 
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Hooray! another year of slow terrible linebacker play, missed tackles, missed sacks. Running backs zooming by, blown coverage, great move. look there is a reason they accepted a pay cut. Becuase to put it nicely, they both suck. In todays NFL if you take pay cut and you werent injured for a 1-2 seasons, your bad.
I know many believe now they are a baragain. Trash is never a baragain no matter how little you pay, your still buying trash.
I'm still holding out hope of picking up Al Wilson and Clark Haggans on short term deals. Neither are great but you can't go much lower than where we are. If we can find a few bodies at LB maybe both Davis and Willie wil be june 1st cuts.
Reality: Both will be starting opening day.
Al Wilson? maybe. Clark Haggans? Hell no.
Watch Haggans' career plummet faster than Joey Porter's with another team.
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Clark and Kambila are both coming for visits. I'd be shocked if one doesn't sign. Your right, probably a good chance Clarke isn't as great as he was in Pitt. But at this point we have to do something..take a chance.
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Quote:
Good news on the financial side...BUT...HOPEFULLY...this does not "guarantee" either McGinest or Davis a roster spot?
IMO, their roster spots should be earned, not inherited
Very true. They both have what it takes to make the team, IMO, but it's the starting part that they'll have to earn. We always can use depth, and I believe they can provide solid depth for us.
Good to hear we're looking out for our future.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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But that contract is no more. The latest figures posted on the NFL players union Web site show a base salary this year of $1.675 million for Davis. And the last two years of the deal have been wiped out.
This is what caught my eye. Looks like Andra is in his final year with the Browns. Obviously, we'll see a lot more of Leon Williams this season. Football teams evolve and this move is part of the Browns' movement forward after this season.
Play your heart out this year, Andra. Leave it all on the field. Go Browns!!
[color:"red"]"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
---Leonardo daVinci
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Anyone else notice the use of the phrase "prominent former starters"
I saw that as well, but look at who wrote the article...
Take it with a grain of salt.
you had a good run Hank.
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I find it funny. In my opinion, they should both have been released.
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Clark and Kambila are both coming for visits. I'd be shocked if one doesn't sign. Your right, probably a good chance Clarke isn't as great as he was in Pitt. But at this point we have to do something..take a chance.
It would be interesting to see if we offer either of them more than what was offered to Chaun Thompson.
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I'd rather just draft a LB with our 4th round pick, maybe Bruce Davis will fall to the 4th round  , if not maybe Shawn Crable, Titus Brown of Miss. St., Joe Clermond of Pitt., or Marcus Howard of UGA. I'd rather draft a guy who has potential, and let him grow and get a shot for a little PT, then bring in a guy who's career is only going to go down as years go by, and stunt the growth potential of young rooks b/c they are taking their playing time ... To me.. bringing in Hagans would be like bringing in Andra Davis, and you see they just restructured his contract.
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HOWEVER, we are showing him (Baxter) more apparant love than we are LCB...
once again, ya lost me.
Lets examine LCB's reworked deal and see how much love he got.
this is from the plain dealer, 12/20/07 article by Cabot:
The restructured deal will pay Bentley the NFL minimum for his position ($605,000) next season, but includes incentives that can earn him the $4 million he was due to make in base salary and roster bonus.
The new deal protects the Browns from having to pay Bentley $4 million in the event he can't play, yet it allows him to make up the money if he's healthy.
So far, Bentley has received about $16 million from the Browns, including his $12.5 million signing bonus, roster bonuses and base salaries. His base salaries in 2009-11 totaled more than $15 million.
Now, lets look at Baxters' deal: He originally signed a six-year, $30 million free agent deal in March 2005. The deal was reworked in '07 to make him a freeagent this year. The browns resigned at a one-year deal worth $720,000. The deal also has $1.6 million worth of incentives.
So who is getting more LOVE??? i say its a toss up with the base salaries- but LCB can still make his previous salary with incentives. LCB is by no way a forgotten man.
The odds are long for both of them returning to form- but if they do the browns will be a better team.
I really don't see how any of this has to do with giving a player more love. Its about business decisions to put the best 53 men on the field. IF it means redoing some contracts because a player got injured and might not return, but still giving them a shot to make it back- then great, i'm all for it. If a player is getting old, lost a step but still has some value- it makes sense to try to restructure the deal instead of flat out cutting him.
If these players are beat out in camp, so be it, the youth movement is a good thing if it brings more athleticism to the field. Do whatever it takes to get the best roster from top to bottom.
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Quote:
Good news on the financial side...BUT...HOPEFULLY...this does not "guarantee" either McGinest or Davis a roster spot?
IMO, their roster spots should be earned, not inherited
Agreed mac, but frankly, who's going to beat them out of a roster spot? Our 4th & 5th round picks? I like the fact they restructured, but it only means to me that they're looking at maybe another year until Phil can work his magic on the LB corps next year like he did this year on the D-line and last year on the O-line. Writing, meet the wall. JMHO
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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This is a fairer spot to be in; needs to be more hunger for spots to be earned. Loyalty is good; blind loyalty is not, and I suggest we have had some of it here and it proved too much. These two weren't world beaters. I will keep the experience with gratitude and welcome it. But I also think these deals reflect actual contributions. I LOVE the idea of more incentive clauses rather than obscene guaranteed amounts. JMO
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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These two weren't world beaters. I will keep the experience with gratitude and welcome it. But I also think these deals reflect actual contributions. I LOVE the idea of more incentive clauses rather than obscene guaranteed amounts. JMO
I love incentive laden contracts too, I think they make for healthy finances and hungry players... also, I am very interested to see how Davis' production is impacted (and Willie's for that matter) by the additions on the line.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Big Foot,
You are waaay over-analyzing my comment.
I think we hear more about Baxter than LCB. I'm calling that "more love". Doesn't mean I'm correct.
Baxter has played...what...12 games as a Brown? I'm not looking it up...but he's done waaay less on the field than have Davis & Willie.
He gets a chance to make more money and two other vets get pay cuts...well, maybe. More love again.
BTW, of course we will offer LCB the potential to make more money than Baxter...the guy was a GREAT player and if he can get back to 80% of that level, he is a bargain. If Baxter gets back to 80% of what he was, he's out of the league.
The whole point was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. What I was trying to get at was the cyber high-fives we were giving eachother about showing the class to re-sign Baxter and show so much respect to our vets...
Then we turn around and re-structure two other vets.
In the end, it's all good. I am ok with all these deals...I just think Baxter is getting better treatment than some other vets. (Could throw Roye in there too.)
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Fellow DawgTalkers, you may not know who I am, because i rarely post, but i spend tons of time browsing this board everyday, even before this website was even created, and one thing I have never understood is all the hate for Andra, so I believe it is my time to chime in. There are many here who believe that AD is a piece of garbage and want him released. I for one think he is a good NFL player, and could be a starter on most teams. You do not get 100+ tackles each year and not be a good player. This is where most of you AD haters say, "but most of his tackles are downfield"(point one). This may be true in some cases, but the fact of the matter is he still makes tackles! I dont give 2 cents where his tackles are, the fact that he makes them shows he doesn't give up on plays, has good speed, and can wrap up and bring someone down. Do all of you forget how much he was in the backfield for the buffalo game? Point 2 that people try and make: He can't get off his blocks. This I believe is untrue as you can not make tackles if you are being blocked. I'll admit, he's never going to be a big play linebacker and be able to fend off guards and tackles and get double digit sacks, but he is solid. Point 3 AD haters make: He is slow. He is not the fastest linebacker in the world, but he takes good angles and is able to get to the ball carrier. You also can not say he makes all of his tackles downfield and he is slow, it just doesnt work out, as he would not be able to make tackles downfield if this were the case. The thing that angers me the most is that most of the people calling for AD's head are also the ones that are applauding Savage for "depth signings," and hoping cleveland brings in another MLB for the rotation. In your minds you think it would be better to bring in a career backup under 30 who has the potential to possibly spot start and get 3 sacks a year and to cut Andra, a consistant tackling machine, who only adds to the rotation and is a good NFL player. In conclusion, I do not believe that AD is by any means a Pro Bowl player, but you don't consitantly get 100+ tackle seasons by being slow, and unable to get off blocks, and I believe he is also a high charachter guy who adds a lot to our team (did you all forget he was a captain this year?) I will be very sad to see him leave cleveland, and I hope it is in the browns plans to re-sign him to a more team friendly contract as even I'll admit he isnt worthy of the 4+ million a year he is set to recieve. Sorry for such a long post Call me out/ disagree if you like
Go Browns!
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i spend tons of time browsing this board everyday, even before this website was even created
So what is time travel really like?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
i spend tons of time browsing this board everyday, even before this website was even created
So what is time travel really like?
ha. I guess I should re phrase that I was looking at it while it was still in affiliation with clevelandbrowns.com 
Go Browns!
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Anyone else notice the use of the phrase "prominent former starters"
Yeah I did...WM in reality is not a starter..he is no longer able to do much...physically.
But what he is for Rac is a player coach on the field..he gets people in their spots..[plus he's Rac's eye's/ears in the locker room..
He'll be invaluable for Rodgers coming in..because he'll help to keep him in line..
Davis..he's another story..he should be used on passing downs or prevents..but I would prefer a thumper on 1st and 2nd downs..
It's not a secret the Browns want to upgrade the Sam spot.
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From what I can gather I dont think that Davis was ever meant to be a full fledged starter in the middle and his contract extension in the first place was alway meant to be reworked. He was more like another bandaid until we got two better starters. It seems like Savage gave Davis starting ILB money because all those years we were rebuilding he was just that. Now they reworked his deal to a show his current status with the team which is a rotational player.
Savage seems to treat his players right. They get what they earn.
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i could be over analyzing. In the end, i think we are close to the same thoughts....... I did read in a presser that RAC would love to have Roye back -probably as a rotational guy- if at all possible. So the book might not be closed on him. Denver was looking at him, but unless i missed it, he did not sign with them.
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Quote:
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The players agree to it.
Yes the players agree to it, but dont believe for a minute that something isnt given to them to get them to agree to the cuts in base salary. Usually the player isnt losing any money it is just restructured into signing bonuses.
KING
NRTU.
Let's set this record straight.
Both players were given an ultimatum: Restructure or be released. That's what this is. Nothing more, nothing less. This isn't about the players being good soldiers and volunteering to help the team out.
So what does McGinnest get out of this deal? On a team that doesn't have a starting OLB to pair with Wimbley, Willie gets one more crack at being a regular player in this league. He wouldn't get that shot on any other team.
So what does Davis get out of this deal? He gets the opportunity to make the salary that was laid out in the previous deal, thanks to the incentives in the new deal. He can make up to $3.6 million if he hits his incentives. That's pretty close to what he was slated to make just in salary. If he didn't accept it, he's released, and probably signs for veteran minimum somewhere else. He wouldn't get anywhere near what he got to stay.
Here's the other part about Davis' contract that's worth noting: He's a free agent after this season. That means he better perform like he has never performed before, or he's going to be changing addresses next year. To put it simply, we've given Davis the chance to earn the money slated in his previous contract in exchange for making him a free agent and upgrading the position, essentially making him a stopgap player. We're very close to signing Al Wilson. If he comes aboard and plays well, he's our starting MLB next year. If he doesn't, we sign someone else who'll compete with Williams.
Make no mistake about it. These are good guys who are limited on the field. They've been the best of a bad bunch, but now that we're forming a good bunch, these guys are expendable. They didn't do the Browns any favors out of the kindness of their hearts. It was either restructure or be released, and on the open market, they weren't going to get what they got here.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212 |
silly question- what does NRTU mean???
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
silly question- what does NRTU mean???
Not Responding To You
Some people just put "Just Clicking" instead
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Davis & McGinest Restructure
Contracts
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