|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 32
Rookie
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 32 |
Post deleted by Referee2
Last edited by Referee2; 03/22/08 04:39 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,558
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,558 |
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520 |
Interesting article about him when he left Michigan... http://media.www.michigandaily.com/media...s-1415008.shtml Orr's decision to leave should not bother fans By Joe Smith, The Daily Grind on 1/16/03 PrintEmail DoubleClick Any Word Page 1 of 1 Joe Smith, The Daily Grind Some tragic events can make you grow up quicker than you would like. For attorney Steven Fishman, his painful fast-forward into maturity came while he was a sophomore basketball player at Michigan in 1967. In the middle of one practice, he was told that his father had passed away. Fishman's grave personal loss changed his life, but also helped him bond with his client - Michigan redshirt junior defensive end Shantee Orr - who also lost his father early in his college years. "When something like that occurs, it forces manhood on you at an earlier time than you could ever imagine," Fishman said. Orr definitely understands how quickly something important can be taken away in an instant. And he apparently doesn't want to take anything else for granted. Orr's decision this week to leave the Wolverines and make himself eligible for the 2003 NFL Draft may have surprised many people. But it shouldn't bother anyone. Orr is expecting to graduate in April with a degree in movement science. He's not abandoning the Wolverines to play in the minor leagues, nor is he leaving the school empty-handed. He's actually leaving Michigan in plenty of good hands. Orr may have been Michigan's sack leader this year, but the Wolverines still have the "Sack Master" in junior Alain Kashama. Kashama showed flashes of his potential in a couple of game-changing plays at the Outback Bowl. Along with Larry Stevens, Pierre Woods and a very deep defensive line, Kashama should help wreak havoc on opposing quarterbacks - much like Orr did during his better moments. At his best, Orr showed brilliance - his four sacks against Michigan State two years ago and his constant pressure on Rex Grossman in this year's Outback Bowl. But other times, Orr would disappear, leaving fans wondering which Shantee will show up - man or myth? But he did spend four years at the University, establishing himself as a solid defensive lineman - he was named to the All-Big Ten Honorable Mention team this year - and will now leave to potentially fulfill his lifelong dream of playing in the NFL. Not to mention he'll have a chance to help his loved ones out financially. "I think Shantee Orr, like most young athletes, is concerned about the economic future of his family," Fishman said.
Orr won't be a first-round pick - he may not even be selected until the fifth round or later. At 6-foot-1, 255 pounds, Orr will likely be an undersized defensive lineman if he's not moved to linebacker. But some team will pick up Orr - a talented, relentless player with a 4.6 40-yard dash - on his pure athleticism and potential.
At least Orr, who missed two games this season with a knee injury, can now go into the combine healthy next month and take his chances. Even if he came back to Michigan next fall, trying to slightly improve his draft stock, it could be even more of a risk. That is, the risk of getting hurt. Miami's Willis MaGahee's horrific knee injury in the Fiesta Bowl - which probably cost him $10 million and nearly cut his career short - was just one of a string of unfortunate reinforcements this season for Orr that he's playing Russian roulette every time he takes the field. He watched teammate and friend Zia Combs' career end in an accidental collision with Ernest Shazor. He held his breath as Cato June lied motionless for several minutes just two weeks later. "You're just a play away from disaster," Fishman said. Orr is just a few months away from completing his degree and achieving his dream of being handed a NFL jersey on draft day. And for Orr, that's one event that probably can't happen quickly enough. Joe Smith can be reached at josephms@umich.edu.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,426 |
Browns Agree To Deal With Versatile Orr The Cleveland Browns reached agreement on a one-year deal with free-agent linebacker Shantee Orr on Wednesday, NFL Network's Adam Schefter is reporting. Orr, 26, will essentially be the replacement for the departed Chaun Thompson at outside linebacker, playing some on the inside as well as special teams. In six seasons, Orr has appeared in 50 games with 25 starts. He spent five seasons with the Houston Texans before playing for the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2007. His best season came in 2005, when he had seven sacks and 50 tackles. Thompson, who signed with the Houston Texans last week, had started 30 games with the Browns over the last five seasons, collecting 10½ sacks and 130 tackles
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 271
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 271 |
Filling a hole it looks like. Might be a good "gunner"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468 |
Adding depth never hurts !  ....
The Mammal
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
I'd rather sign him than ol' Steeler dude..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
So you would rather have a guy who was just replaced by Chaun Thompson over a proven 34 OLB starter....  . Trust me don't say anymore on this subject, and you'll thank me in the morning when your sober...lol.  I don't mind the signing, but considering he was replaced by our guy, and we got him after we couldn't sign CT I would have to say that on the surface this seems to be an actual downgrade from last year's LB corps (if that is even possible). I really hope we get a solid vet to man the other OLB spot, becasue I don't want another year of Willie and Peek.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,717
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,717 |
Quote:
I'd rather sign him than ol' Steeler dude..
I'm very thankful that Haggans didn't sign with the Browns. Hopefully we have a chance to get him back!
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
Quote:
Yay?
And there was much rejoicing....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
The Browns did not appear to try very hard to sign Thompson or Haggans for that matter. It looks like Phil wants to sign players to one year deals. Haggans probably wanted a multi-year deal and Phil wasn't having it. Who knows? IMO
Orr = Thompson or close enough to call it a wash at this point.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
So you would rather have a guy who was just replaced by Chaun Thompson over a proven 34 OLB starter....
Clark Haggans is 31 years old and was already replaced by the Stillers....you always need LB when running the 3-4 but not by stocking up on has-beens.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
Not to mention....The Steelers usually let go of their LB's at about the right time....The only one that really got past them was Vrable....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Yep.....they (as a rule) don't re-sign aged players, especially as you mention LB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212 |
Woooooooo-Wooooooooooooooo errr uhhhhhmm- WHO?
Well, we need some bodies at the linebacker position. This is a one year bandaid and a special teamer. No mystery where the browns will be looking to upgrade next year- maybe they will get lucky in the draft this year but that is kind of pushing it a bit with the picks that are left.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
This is pure speculation. Haggans was hoping for a three year deal worth decent money to be a starter. Phil wanted to sign him for one year to be back-up and special teamer to replace Thompson. Haggans wasn't willing and Orr was.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Maybe so....but in the end I bet Orr ends up more grass stains on his butt than will Haggans.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 62
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 62 |
Just reading his bio this guy may turn out to be a ST ace. It sounds like he has the disposition for it.
CT had really developed into an above average ST'er and there was a need there. Our St were a very BIG part of our success last year.
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein" ~Joe Theismann~
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
From todays PD http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/03/cleveland_browns_sign_houston.htmlQuote:
Signing of LB Orr replaces Thompson
Posted by Tony Grossi, Plain Dealer Reporter March 21, 2008 14:40PM
Shantee Orr is the new Chaun Thompson in the Browns' defensive scheme.
After losing Thompson to Houston in free agency, the Browns reacted by signing Orr, a versatile linebacker with some rush ability and experience on special teams. The deal is for one year.
Orr was undrafted out of Michigan and spent the bulk of his five NFL seasons with the Houston Texans. He appeared in the last three games in 2007 with Jacksonville after being released.
Orr has 25 starts in 51 career games, mostly at left outside linebacker with the Texans. He had seven sacks in 2005, including three in one game against Baltimore.
"Shantee has experience as an inside and outside linebacker and has also played extensively on special teams," Browns General Manager Phil Savage said in a club statement. "This signing will add to our depth and create better competition at these positions."
Orr turns 27 in May. He is listed as 6-1 and 246 pounds.
To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:
tgrossi@plaind.com, 216-999-4670
SHANTEE ORR FILE
Position: Linebacker
Ht: 6-1 Wt: 246
College: Michigan
Birthdate: May 28, 1981
Year in NFL: 5th
Games Played/Started: 2003 (6/0); 2004 (4/0); 2005 (16/12); 2006 (16/11); 2007 (9/2, 0/0).
Career Totals: 51 games, 25 starts.
Postseason Games: 0 games, 0 starts.
Career Transactions: Originally signed as an undrafted rookie free agent by Green Bay on May 2, 2003...Waived by Green Bay on July 29, 2003...Claimed via waivers by Houston on July 30, 2003...Waived by Houston on Aug. 31, 2003...Signed by Houston to the practice squad on Sept. 1, 2003...Signed by Houston to the active roster on Nov. 16, 2003...Signed by Houston on March 26, 2004...Waived by Houston on Sept. 5, 2004...Signed by Houston to the practice squad on Sept. 6, 2004...Signed by Houston to the active roster on Dec. 6, 2004...Signed by Houston on March 23, 2006...Waived by Houston on Nov. 28, 2007...Signed by Jacksonville on Dec. 12, 2007...Signed by Cleveland as an undrafted rookie free agent on March 21, 2008.
Career Highlights: Fifth-year veteran linebacker has played in 51 career games, including 25 starts with Houston and Jacksonville...Had totaled 89 tackles and 10.5 sacks during his NFL career...Had a career-high 47 tackles and 7 sacks with Houston in 2005...Had a career-high 3 sacks for 23 yards at Baltimore on Dec. 4, 2005.
Seasonal Reviews:
2007: Began the year with Houston and appeared in 6 games, including two starts for the Texans, and totaled 3 tackles and 5 special teams tackles...Waived by Houston on Nov. 28, 2007...Signed by Jacksonville on Dec. 12 after the Jaguars lost Marcus Stroud to injury...Appeared in three games for Jacksonville and totaled 3 tackles and 3 special teams tackles...Listed as inactive for both postseason contests.
2006: Played in all 16 games for the second time in his career and started 11 games at outside linebacker...Registered 27 tackles, 23 solo and 1.5 sacks...Added 1 tackle vs. Philadelphia on Sept. 10, and 3 tackles and 1 recovered fumble vs. Washington on Sept. 24...Had 2 tackles and half a sack vs. Miami on Oct. 1...Totaled 5 tackles at N.Y. Giants on Nov. 5...Had a season-high 6 tackles and 1 sack vs. Buffalo on Nov. 19...Collected 4 tackles vs. Cleveland on Dec. 31.
2005: Played in all 16 games, starting 12 at left outside linebacker...Finished with 47 tackles, 7 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, and 1 PBU...Added 2 tackles, 1 sack and 1 forced fumble vs. Indianapolis on Oct. 23...Started and made 5 tackles and 1 sack vs. St. Louis on Nov. 27...Started and set a franchise record with 3 sacks for 23 yards, 7 tackles and 1 forced fumble at Baltimore on Dec. 4...Added 7 tackles, 2.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles vs. Jacksonville on Dec. 24.
2004: Went to camp with Houston and was waived by the Texans on Sept. 5...Signed by Houston to the practice squad on Sept. 6, and spent the first 12 weeks on the practice squad...Signed by Houston to the active roster on Dec. 6, and appeared in four games, mainly on special teams with 1 tackle.
2003: Signed by Green Bay as an undrafted rookie and was waived by the Packers before training camp...Claimed by Houston via waivers on July 30 and was waived by the Texans at the end of camp...Signed by Houston to the practice squad on Sept. 1, and spent the first 10 weeks of the season on the practice squad...Signed by Houston to the active roster and appeared in six games, mainly on special teams, and at outside linebacker...Totaled 9 tackles, 2 sacks and 1 recovered fumble...Also added 2 special teams tackles...Made his NFL debut at Buffalo on Nov. 16, and filled in for injured Antwan Peek, and recorded 1 sack and recovered a fumble by Bills QB Drew Bledsoe to clinch the victory...Suffered a broken led and ankle vs. Tennessee on Dec. 21, and was placed on Injured Reserve.
College: Lettered three seasons at Michigan and started 23 of 35 career games as a defensive end...Posted 79 tackles, 13 sacks, 9 PBU and 3 forced fumbles...Registered 24 tackles and 6 sacks as a junior...Collected a career-high 35 tackles and 6 sacks as a sophomore...Recorded 20 tackles and 1 sack in 2000 after redshirting in 1999...Majored in physical education.
Personal: Full name Shantee De'Shjuan Orr...Born May, 28, 1981 in Detroit, Mich...Played four positions at Detroit's Denby Tech Prep, earning all-state and USA Today honorable mention All-America honors as a senior...Played linebacker, guard, quarterback, and punter...Also lettered in baseball and track, winning city discus title as a sophomore.
ORR'S SINGLE-GAME CAREER HIGHS
TACKLES: 7 vs. St. Louis 11/27/05
SACKS: 3 at Baltimore 12/4/05
RECOVERED FUMBLE: 1, three times, last at Jacksonville 12/26/04
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
It could very well be that Phil wanted a short term contract for Haggans and more of a backup role..they see these guys work out , we don't..
Orr is more of a ST's player..and won't see a lot of downs..
But I'm very curious now..since they brought in Quentin Groves of Auburn who is a mid1st to early second round prospect..
Somethings up..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
Quote:
But I'm very curious now..since they brought in Quentin Groves of Auburn who is a mid1st to early second round prospect..
Somethings up..
Why would they do that? Why bring a guy in for a visit if he's not gonna be there when we pick? Is there an alternative reason besides the obvious one. That we will try to go up to get him somehow?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
"something's up..........." Sure it is man, we're DESPERATE for an OLB 
One never knows if a team is willing to make a deal, so it's prudent to identify guys that fit what you want to do, just in case.
As for Orr over Thompson, it's essentially the same guy. You could take two name-plates and swap them out in front of this sentence:
Dude isn't good enough to start, but has starting experience and can play special teams.
The reason it's Orr for us instead of Thompson is because the Texans run the 4-3, and are desperate, so they signed him. Seriously, how bad off are the Texans? They are taking TWO castoff's of ours who were relegated to backup roles and special teams (Bentley, Thompson) and are giving them the chance to earn a starting spot.
Here's what's up. It only takes a touch of deductive reasoning to see that Savage wants these bit-players on his terms. If they don't care for the terms, they leave without a contract. We won't cave just because we're desperate. Hell, even Stallworth's contract is nothing more than a series of one-year deals. Savage is in control of this thing. Unless a surprise team is willing to do a deal for next year's draft picks, we're going into this season with an upgraded defense, but one that still has holes.
Rome wasn't built in a day.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
So you say they are looking at this guy that Attack mentions "Just in case" a deal for him might be had?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
not to answer for toad, but i guess it comes down to where this guy is projected to go...
we already had the rumor with anderson, that the reason we upped his contract cash is becuase a team with a low first and third was gonna offer him a contract...then trade him to move up higher into the first round...
well we still have anderson...and no i'm not saying that we trade him, as i would like one more year, then decide....but the possiblity exists...
so this means that we could trade anderson for that same pick....and it just might be high enough to draft this olb we are looking at...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306 |
Quote:
One never knows if a team is willing to make a deal, so it's prudent to identify guys that fit what you want to do, just in case.
While it is illegal to smoke in public in Ohio, It is still legal to blow smoke if your a NFL GM.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
Quote:
One never knows if a team is willing to make a deal, so it's prudent to identify guys that fit what you want to do, just in case.
While it is illegal to smoke in public in Ohio, It is still legal to blow smoke if your a NFL GM.
Phil shocks me every year with something. IMO we're at a point now where trading away future picks starts hitting a point of diminishing returns. Trades including talent from our roster to get back in the early rounds seems unlikely, however as I alluded to, anything is possible with Phil. I do think see it as more of a matter of his staff needing to prepare for the draft as if they have all their picks than I do as being part of a plan to actually acquire him. I'm honestly excited to see what Phil & Co. can do with the picks he does have. Should be some decent tweeners available, maybe a RB or WR, and according to Phil, the draft is deep with corners/safeties.
Again IMO, picking up Orr is about keeping the roster full until the next guy can beat him out, whether he's acquired in this draft, next year or never. I personally am gonna miss seeing what Chaun might have contributed this year.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874 |
Quote:
So you say they are looking at this guy that Attack mentions "Just in case" a deal for him might be had?
Funny things have been known to happen on draft day.
Might as well have done your homework just in case.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
I know what some of you are hoping for. You are so freaking obvious. If we do what you wish, we will be weaker! Let me clue you in.....................it's you guys who will hurt the Browns moe than anyone else. More than the Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, etc. And I know that the warning doesn't mean jack squat to you numbskulls.........you are still going to wolf, wolf, wolf ...............about your boy. You are clueless. And you are going to hurt our team! 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 112
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 112 |
Let me say that, trading 2009 draft picks is mortgaging our future. Trading this years draft picks was not mortgaging our future. Sit and think, because any trading of next years picks will have a long term affect on the browns.
Look at the age of the players we traded for, this year, then figure three years out. This the one year we could honestly do ths with very few ramifications, very smart of what Savae is doing.I still do not think Savage is done, because there are holes to be filled, but ewhat he has done this off season, is simply amazing
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
You may need to 'splain yourself a little better than that, because if you trade picks and are mortgaging the future, you're trading picks and mortgaging the future. If we didn't do it this year with the players we acquired, we aren't doing it by acquiring the rights to select players in this draft.
The only REAL way you "mortgage the future" is if you're trading away picks for OLD players in order to win NOW. We aren't doing that. If we trade away next year's picks for guys we draft this year, that isn't anything close to that cliche.
An example:
We traded away last year's picks to get Quinn. We didn't mortgage anything. We paid a premium (the 2nd rounder) in order to acquire Quinn one year earlier. Nothing more, nothing less.
In the sense you're expressing, EVERY pick traded away is mortga....you get the idea 
That cliche (and I don't mean that in a bad way, just gettin' damned tired of typing it *L*) only applies to trading picks that represent players who contribute for only one or two years. That's the gamble, which leads to the cliche. When trading for players in their 20's, you're expecting those players to play for at least 3-5 years, and in the age of free agency, that's a pretty good gamble, especially when one considers just how badly we needed an infusion of nfl-caliber starters on that side of the ball.
No, I disagree with you. Trading away next year's picks for current year selections isn't the cliche, and trading away this year's picks for current players either entering or in their prime isn't the cliche. Any of those players could fall down at any moment and bust, but that can be said for any player taken in the draft at any point. If Thompson hadn't of been a bust, we wouldn't be considering trading next year's picks for a player this year That's just one example of my exact point.
Frankly, if we traded away next year's #1 in order to acquire a pass-rushing guy this year, I'd not be unhappy at all. It'd prolly cost us a 2nd just like it did this year, but that's OK. We traded a 2nd rounder in order to acquire Winslow, and that's turned out pretty good. Because we traded a 2nd to get Quinn, that let us have options with Anderson, and that's turned out good.
Now here's the wildcard that makes it NOT a mortgage of the future: Salary cap space. If we had to dump salaries in order to get under the cap, that'd be a pig of a different color. Unlike some franchises (that may have stripes on their helmets  ) Cleveland is a place where players want to come to, not run away from. Since we currently have cap space to spare, now and apparently in the future, we're paying a premium, but not mortgaging the future. It's a subtle difference, but a major one.
I don't see how trading next year's picks for this year's draftee's is the cliche. Maybe a more involved explanation will get through my thick skull.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833 |
Quote:
I know what some of you are hoping for. You are so freaking obvious.
If we do what you wish, we will be weaker!
Let me clue you in.....................it's you guys who will hurt the Browns moe than anyone else. More than the Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, etc. And I know that the warning doesn't mean jack squat to you numbskulls.........you are still going to wolf, wolf, wolf ...............about your boy.
You are clueless. And you are going to hurt our team!
I don't believe anyone posting on this board has enough influence to either help or hurt the team.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,532
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,532 |
Quote:
They are taking TWO castoff's of ours who were relegated to backup roles and special teams (Bentley, Thompson) and are giving them the chance to earn a starting spot.
Bentley? Did I miss something?
Never mind... Kevin Bentley. LOL I thought I was losing it.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 03/23/08 07:28 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
I don't believe anyone posting on this board has enough influence to either help or hurt the team.
Haven't you heard? The numbskulls do! Fear the numbskulls!
I don't know that it would be mortgaging the future if we were to continue dealing.....it's not like the cash advance store where you keep going back sooner and sooner before payday for an atrocious loan.....as long as there are valued players acquired at sound financial bases then I don't see where doing this is a problem. There's several ways to look at it though, but for the time being we are in great shape.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
I was thinking about this Shep, if you take a look in our division for example the 2 teams that should be able to make improvement and contend along side us are IMHO the Steelers and the Ravens neither one can spend a dime because they are just about at the limit of the cap.
To me it's a reminder of the importance of remaining well under the cap, of being able to move money forward from one year to the next. The reason I say that is this. Lets say the Browns see a player that can actually make a huge difference in their upcoming season, they can go out and get that player, because they have remained under the cap. Now take the Steelers and the Ravens they have team needs but can only sit on the sidelines and watch while the Browns continue to improve and start to actually pull ahead in talent.
We can still go to the candy store see something we like and buy it. Alls they can do is look around and think about what might have been.
JMHO
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
It's the numbskulls, local media included, that fuels controversies. The media plays two roles; It mirrors the public opinion and offers their own personal opinions. Sometimes the chicken comes first; sometimes the egg. But numbskulls nonetheless drive controversies, and controversies are distractions, and distractions are bad for the team.
In so far as mortgaging our future, I see no problem with anything the Browns have done thus far. The only problem I see with using future picks ahead of time is the premium that has to be paid, as Toad pointed out, by having to give more value than you get; a first and a third for a first for example.
But when it allows you to bring in a specifically targeted player a year early it is a jumpstart, the value of which cannot be denied. The premium, or penalty if you will, has to be weighed out in the larger view.
The Browns have this season and next to reach their 5-year plan. With the success of last season they could ill afford to "take a step back" this season The only way to avoid that was to solidify the Front 7 of the defense ASAP. The draft, even with a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder, would not have accomplished that.
A step back would have disolved the confidence that is riding so high in Berea right now after such a successful season. That is hard enough to obtain. It's even harder to gain back after losing it.
By using those picks on young, established veterans, they have instantly upgraded the defense and put themselves out of the worry of taking a step back so long as everyone remains healthy.
Nothing is guaranteed. But the moves they made this offseason look to be solid and for the long haul no matter how one views it. If Williams and Rogers are as advertised the Browns will successfully stop the run this season for the first time since our return in 1999. When you factor in that the first two fundamentals are that you must be abe to run the ball and stop the run there is no limit to the possible outcomes now that we have the potential to do both.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
It is rare a team can use the draft as it's exclusive domain in building a team. Sooner or later you end up with 5-6-7 guys in or entering their prime years. If you continue to use the draft as your exclusive means of building, those players start to go past their prime years as others start to enter theirs.
Thus, you need to us free agency as a way to bring in more good players in their primes.
Good teams, who make a sustained 4-5 year run are usually the teams who have the most good players, in their primes, on the field.
Unless you get pretty lucky and start hitting on 4-5 draft picks a year, 3-4 years in a row...and by hitting I am talking about players who not only start, but are considered plus players, you usually can't rely simply on the draft.
We had a situation where the O was ready to make a run, and the D wasn't...we had to catch it up so we can have 3-4 cracks at the prize while many of these guys are playing at their peak at the same time.
Maybe this is the team to do it or maybe it isn't...but once you get to a point you think it is close, you go with it and take your shot and see where the chips fall.
Now, with good drafting, we may be able to extend that run from 4-5 years into 7-8.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Regardless of the merits of my previous post......I would like to apologize for what I said. I was drunk for the first time in a very long time and I don't even remember making that post. What I said was offensive and wrong.
I apologize to anyone I offended. I wish I could delete the post so no one else would have to read it, but I can't. So, once again.........I'm sorry for saying what I did.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
What did you drink??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
vers...I have been reading and not posting during this slow period.
The question I keep asking, why get excersized over the signing of a backup LB or other rumors that are not based on any facts.
We Browns fans are in a unique position...for the most part, excitement over our upcoming draft is somewhere around zero because our first 3 rounds have already been filled.
Not much to discuss, other than additions such as Orr, a "backup LB", or rumors.
Might be a good time to set back and relax and if you want to toss a few, so be it...but not much to get excited about concerning our Browns.
No apologies necessary...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns sign Shantee Orr
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
