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Once again guys, not really something most of us didn't really allready know,. but still thought it was worth reading. enjoy: LINK Passan: The Pressure's on Mel
By Rich Passan
OBR Columnist
Posted Mar 24, 2008
With the investments the Browns have made on defense, the will be no time to wait for production. Rich Passan argues that Mel Tucker will be likely be inclined to shift the Browns defensive philosophy in a way that unleashes the team's new talent...
Now that General Manager Phil Savage had addressed the Browns’ defense in a major way, we are going to find out in a hurry whether the elevation of Mel Tucker will have a profound impact on the new season.
It won’t be a surprise like the offense was last season when Derek Anderson and his crew caused the National Football League to stand up and take notice that the Browns had begun to shed their doormat label. At least on that side of the ball.
No, there will be no shocks for the Browns this season on defense. They will be better. Count on it. They certainly can’t be any worse than they’ve been the last three seasons.
The only shock that could possibly occur is if they don’t improve at all. And that’s where Tucker faces the greatest pressure. Failure to make any kind of progress is not an option.
With the likes of defensive tackle Shaun Rogers and defensive end Corey Williams now on board, not to mention a veteran or two Savage will sign before training camp, fans now expect Tucker to make a difference. It has ventured beyond the hoping stage. The results must be positive and immediate.
Savage has seen to it that excuses for failing to improve will not be tolerated. Lack of talent in the past provided some justification for the defense’s shortcomings. Not anymore. The talent clearly is there.
This isn’t to say Tucker won’t be successful. His rapid rise to his current position indicates Savage and his minions believe he can produce a dominant enough defense to keep the Browns in games and take some pressure off the offense, which won last season despite repeated absences by its counterparts.
Three key areas Tucker must improve immediately are stopping the run, rushing the quarterback and creating turnovers. Not exactly bulletin material. The Browns have ranked near the National Football League basement in those key categories the last several years.
And with Rogers and Williams joining the Smiths (Robaire and Shaun) in the front-line rotation, improving the first two looks more and more realistic. If the road graders up front do what they’re supposed to, and there’s no good reason to believe they won’t, we’ll get a chance to see just how good – or average – the linebackers are.
Last season, none of the backers played well enough to cause waves of ecstasy due to the defensive line’s inability to neutralize opposing offensive lines. That figures to change this season with a more aggressive approach.
Defense, by its very nature, is aggression. Players on that side of the ball love to hit, love to get in the first lick. The more aggressive a team is on defense, the more likely it will be successful.
The Browns, for the most part, played more of a read and react defense under previous defensive coordinator Todd Grantham. Rarely did they get after the quarterback and rarely did they literally attack the ball.
It wouldn’t be surprising to see Tucker turn Rogers and Williams loose on opposing quarterbacks since both have displayed the ability to penetrate the opposition’s backfield. And if Tucker can push the right buttons with Rogers, whose reputation for taking off plays has stunted his growth, then anything is possible. That, however, could be a huge if.
This season, there will be no ifs concerning the inside linebackers. You can expect them to make plays at or behind the line of scrimmage in a more active effort to stop the run.
We’ve all heard about the wonderful football instincts of inside backer D’Qwell Jackson, but it came with a caveat. He was too small. Light in the pants, said the experts. Well, the Browns now list Jackson at 240 pounds, so those pants have filled out. No more excuses.
The same for Andra Davis or Leon Williams, who will battle to play opposite Jackson. Williams is younger, quicker and more active than Davis, whose starting job hangs precariously in the balance. This could finally be the year Davis becomes a spectator.
And outside backer Kamerion Wimbley should benefit from the presence of Williams and Rogers, whose ability to tie up offensive linemen should help free him to make the kind of plays expected of him when he was drafted two years ago.
Wimbley thrives on harassing the quarterback and unless I miss my guess, he’ll finally get the opportunity to show why Savage made him the club’s top pick in 2006. If the Browns can force opponents into second-and-long situations, don’t be surprised to see them play a lot of even-man fronts on passing downs with Wimbley moving up and putting his hand on the ground as a defensive end.
At first, Tucker’s biggest test will be gaining the confidence of the defense. This being his first pro shot as a coordinator, it wouldn’t surprise that a few veterans cast a wary eye his way until he can prove himself. Being responsible for an entire unit is a lot different than coaching a small group of defensive backs.
The incumbents from last season’s secondary will vouch for him. The ultimate litmus test lies perilously ahead. He’s got to quickly get the attention of the rest of the defense.
With the expectation level as high as it is, the pressure weighs much more heavily on Tucker than it ever did on Grantham.
I always liked Tucker, even from his days at the Ohio State University. He seemed to get the DB's there into the pro's on a consistant bases. Even here with the Browns, he has brought along some pretty good lower round picks. I guess the only questions remain are (as the article says), can he do it now with the WHOLE defense. Just imagine if he and RAC can get Rogers to play like some of the McDonald's and Bodden's of the Browns. I also thought the comment on Jackson being 240 was interesting. This will be his 3rd yr. in the league, hopefully we can turn into a Zach Thomas type of LB.
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I don't think there will be a lot of pressure on Tucker... Just keep doing what you do man... Especially with Rac as our coach, he won't let Tucker fall on his face. TRUST!
I really think a pretty good Corner or OLB will fall to us in the 4th, and that will help us out too.
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Tucker is definitely on watch as a new corrdinator, but the article stated the key to our defensive success. Attitude. The defense needs to play hungry and active. The more physical Tucker can get this defense, the more successful it will be.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Classic March fill space artical......Pressure...common the guys coached all his life, he understands & know the pressures of being a coach,
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Being a unit coach is one thing..coaching the entire D is another.
Of course he'll have Rac(I'M THINKING ARBY's) there to instruct him..but I am curious how this D is schemed this year..
There will be little room for excuses..as the talent has been upgraded a lot..
Now it's getting these guys to play hard and above what they have in the past.
There are areas that will now be scrutinized more than before..the LB's..if the line does what it is supposed to, we'll see if the backers actually improve or stay the same..
No excuses ..not that I gave this unit any but there are some who will...
The corners will get tested as they are so young but talented..I hope we get a vet in here.
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You guys know how I hate disagreeing w/people, but I gotta disagree w/much of this article. *L* Quote:
Defense, by its very nature, is aggression. Players on that side of the ball love to hit, love to get in the first lick. The more aggressive a team is on defense, the more likely it will be successful.
Really? Defense, by its very nature, is aggression? 
I love when non-football people try and act like they know what they are talking about. Look up the word defense......oh hell.....I will do it for you.
is the action of preventing an opponent from scoring.
Preventing an opponent from scoring is not exactly aggression.
I'll take it further. The best defenses are the defenses that are disciplined. They know their roles and are not out of position. They are in the right spot, at the right time, to prevent an offense from doing what it wants to do.
I do understand America's infatuation w/aggressive schemes, but sound, fundamental football usually wins.
Quote:
Now that General Manager Phil Savage had addressed the Browns’ defense in a major way, we are going to find out in a hurry whether the elevation of Mel Tucker will have a profound impact on the new season.
It won’t be a surprise like the offense was last season when Derek Anderson and his crew caused the National Football League to stand up and take notice that the Browns had begun to shed their doormat label. At least on that side of the ball.
I think we have improved on defense, but I don't think we have improved as nearly as much as we did on offense last season.
--First of all, DA was a huge upgrade over Frye.
--There will be no impact players on this year's defense like Joe and Steiny.
--Guys like K2 and Edwards matured and started realizing their talent.
--Lewis was a huge upgrade over Droughns.
--We were able to shift offensive linemen around due to the previously mentioned guys. Shaffer played well at RT. Tucker was outstanding at RG. And Fraley had another year under his belt.
On the defensive side of the ball, we brought in Williams and Rogers. Huge upgrades, to be sure. However, I don't see how they can have as much impact as this combination:
---DA, Joe, Steiny, Lewis, and that isn't even counting the improved play of Tucker, Shaffer, Edwards, and K2.
It ain't close.
We also lost Bodden, who was a starting cb. Now that he is gone, people are dismissing him, but he did start for us.
I think we will be improved on defense, but we still have a ways to go. We still need:
--a FS who can play
--a veteran corner
--an OLB who can pressure the QB
--and perhaps an ILBer.
I am not blaming Savage. He did quite a bit this off-season, but this D still needs work. It would be foolish to start looking for scapegoats once the season gets under way. It's going to take a little more time, but at least we have improved.
Quote:
It wouldn’t be surprising to see Tucker turn Rogers and Williams loose on opposing quarterbacks since both have displayed the ability to penetrate the opposition’s backfield. And if Tucker can push the right buttons with Rogers, whose reputation for taking off plays has stunted his growth, then anything is possible. That, however, could be a huge if.
Really Rich? Well, if he does.......there goes that run defense you were talking about earlier. Yeah, let's get aggressive. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I really hope that we mix up our D this year running some 3-4, 4-3, 46, etc. We have enough talent to be able to run all those D formations now. I think the D has some real potential to be a top 10-15 D next season and with a few players in the draft next year they may be able to be a top 10 D.
It's going to be exciting to watch the D play now.
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You disagreeing with something.........never   now, just for the hell of it: Quote:
--First of all, DA was a huge upgrade over Frye.
No one really saw this one coming.
Quote:
--There will be no impact players on this year's defense like Joe and Steiny.
If Rogers has the type of yr. many think he is capable of, and Williams steps up to the plate now that he will pretty much be a full time starter, why couldn't they have the same type of impact?
Quote:
--Guys like K2 and Edwards matured and started realizing their talent.
We have several young guys on the defensive side of the ball that can make the same type of step that K2 and Edwards did.
McDonald, Jones, Wimbley, Jackson, even Williams.
Quote:
--Lewis was a huge upgrade over Droughns.
Your right one this one and I can't even think of a reach to propose . But....... , and I include myself on this, many thought Lewis may have been on his last legs. He proved us wrong with help from a really improved front line........MAYBE, Davis and McGinnest can prove us all wrong this yr. with and improved line in front of them?
(I know that one was a reach)
Quote:
--We were able to shift offensive linemen around due to the previously mentioned guys. Shaffer played well at RT. Tucker was outstanding at RG. And Fraley had another year under his belt.
With the additions of Williams and Rogers, are we not going to be able to play the two Smiths in better roles or situations? That one is a real question, how is the signing of Williams and Rogers going to affect the Smiths?
I am just playing devils advocate to you Vers......but I think that we MAY be surprised. That said, I agree that we still need help on defense. MY biggest concern is a solid veteran presense at the CB position. While I like our young guys in Wright, McDonald, and Holly, ....they are young, and if even one goes down.........as we stand right now, we could be in trouble.
On a completely different track, I also think we are in trouble if anything happens to Lewis that keeps him out for an extended period.
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Quote:
I think we have improved on defense, but I don't think we have improved as nearly as much as we did on offense last season.....
...On the defensive side of the ball, we brought in Williams and Rogers. Huge upgrades, to be sure...
i agree it's not as much of an upgrade as last years O, but if we get 5 less points scored against us, we are 3 games in the W column based on last years sched. (oak, pitt #2, cincy) I would have taken 3 games + the playoffs, I know you would have too.
What would you have done differently than Savage in the off-season this year with the d? Not a challenge, just curious.
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Quote:
Quote:
--First of all, DA was a huge upgrade over Frye.
No one really saw this one coming.
It doesn't matter if no one saw it coming. It did come and DA was a huge upgrade over Frye. It's also the most important position on the football field. No one can give us that much of a lift on D.
Quote:
Quote:
--There will be no impact players on this year's defense like Joe and Steiny.
If Rogers has the type of yr. many think he is capable of, and Williams steps up to the plate now that he will pretty much be a full time starter, why couldn't they have the same type of impact?
Joe allowed us to run formations that we could have never run before. We were also able to send more men into patterns. DA had a ton of time to throw. We moved guys to new positions, which upgraded those positions.
I do think Williams and perhaps Rogers will really help us. I did say that we will be improved, but Joe and Steiny were tremendous. And I really don't think people realize just how good Joe is....and how much he does for our offense.
Quote:
Quote:
--Guys like K2 and Edwards matured and started realizing their talent.
We have several young guys on the defensive side of the ball that can make the same type of step that K2 and Edwards did.
McDonald, Jones, Wimbley, Jackson, even Williams.
I knew someone would say that. But dude, those guys don't have near the talent that K2 and Edwards have. Not even close.
Quote:
Quote:
--Lewis was a huge upgrade over Droughns.
Your right one this one and I can't even think of a reach to propose . But....... , and I include myself on this, many thought Lewis may have been on his last legs. He proved us wrong with help from a really improved front line........MAYBE, Davis and McGinnest can prove us all wrong this yr.
(I know that one was a reach)
I think the inside linebackers will improve because of the d-line. I also think Wimbley will improve some. But Lewis, in part because of DA's deep passing ability, and the playmaking ability of Edwards and K2, plus the play of the OL......was HUGE!
nc, there were so many factors in the offenses improvement. We have only upgraded two spots thus far on D, and have taken a step backward in two others.
Quote:
With the additions of Williams and Rogers, are we not going to be able to play the two Smiths in better roles or situations? That one is a real question, how is the signing of Williams and Rogers going to affect the Smiths?
I'm not as high on either Smith as most of you guys are.
Quote:
I am just playing devils advocate to you Vers......but I think that we MAY be surprised.
I know you are and it gives us something to talk about. It's real football talk.
As I said earlier, I think the D will be improved, but I also think that it won't improve as much as most people believe it will.
We'll see..........
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
What would you have done differently than Savage in the off-season this year with the d? Not a challenge, just curious.
I'm not knocking Savage. I think he did a good job of upgrading the d-line. There wasn't much out there this year. I think he will continue to upgrade the defense next year. He knows what we need.
I do wish he would have brought in a FS......there were a couple of guys out there.
I also wish he wouldn't have made one of his draft day moves last year, but I better not bring that up...............it might offend some people......and Lord knows, I hate doing that. *L*
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
and have taken a step backward in two others.
I think I know one, the loss of Bodden. Alot of people seem to be righting this off, but he was our most experienced CB and when healthy (though lately that wasn't much), he was a very decent corner.
What's the other?
I know you don't think much of Pool, but we took that step back last yr., he can't regress from last yr. can he?
And besides, Corey Lynch will will win that spot in camp as our 6th or 7th round pick  .
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Quote:
There wasn't much out there this year. I think he will continue to upgrade the defense next year. He knows what we need.
I do wish he would have brought in a FS......there were a couple of guys out there.
i agree exactly, both on the free agency depth and the need for FS, but i will wait for the draft, weak as it is-one surprise at LB or FS could add more than we think. Otherwise, it's depth on O, and wait for the #1 (maybe 2 #1's if we trade a QB lol) and the #2.
Quote:
I also wish he wouldn't have made one of his draft day moves last year, but I better not bring that up...............it might offend some people......and Lord knows, I hate doing that. *L*
i've noticed...
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Well considering that Tucker inherits one of the worst Defensive units in the NFL the only direction he can take us and still retain his job is up....Personally I always wonder why as a franchise we seldom or never hire coach with previous experience at that position on this level ? ....That said , given the upgrades we have made I can't see how Tucker could do any worse  ....
The Mammal
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
--Guys like K2 and Edwards matured and started realizing their talent.
We have several young guys on the defensive side of the ball that can make the same type of step that K2 and Edwards did.
McDonald, Jones, Wimbley, Jackson, even Williams.
I knew someone would say that. But dude, those guys don't have near the talent that K2 and Edwards have. Not even close.
Can u honestly compare offensive talent to defensive talent? I don't think that is fair. How does Polamalu rank compared to K2? Can u do that?
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I don't think the pressure is on Mel here, he's not gonna get canned after one season. If Mo Carthon can keep his carcass on this team for one and a half seasons, Mel will have atleast two seasons.
1. I think Mel's first objective should be teaching our DL that getting penetration up front involves more than just pushing their weight around....Mel teach LEVERAGE! Our DL rarely used much technique, they grabbed the OL pads and pushed. This is just one really fundanmental aspect of defense the Browns are missing.
2. TACKLING!!!!! Is this finally the year our LB's learn to tackle low and then drive the ball carrier back? For the last 9 seasons watching Browns defenders tackle has been pitful. Mel teach the basic mechanics!
3. DB's need play more diverse than years past. Bump and Run on blitzes, quit playing the same coverage every down. Mix it up in 2008. Theres a time and place for a cover 4 but doing every down puts no pressure on the offense.
4. Scheme wise I think Mel just has to mix it up better than Gratham. We don'thave to go to the Steelers blitz mania. In fact we did blitz enough in 2007 they were just poorly designed plays with poor players. We still have little talent at LB, Wimbley and DQ but no other impact talent at OLB. I'm not gonna pretend to be a defensive cordinator so I dont know exactly what plays to put in. I do know that on defense confusing the offense and OL is half the battle.
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Quote:
1. I think Mel's first objective should be teaching our DL that getting penetration up front involves more than just pushing their weight around....Mel teach LEVERAGE! Our DL rarely used much technique, they grabbed the OL pads and pushed. This is just one really fundanmental aspect of defense the Browns are missing.
#1 Reason why we traded away those draft picks for guys who already have NFL experience...
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You expect Mel to teach leverage? A DB guy teaching leverage? Don't you think that is the Defensive Linemen coach's job? Not to rip on you but that makes zero sense. A DC's job is to put together the scheme, the formations, and the plays. His job is not to teach as much. That goes to the position coaches.
I do agree with you on the the tackling; there is no excuse for it. Mel can emphasize tackling and leverage, but he is not the guy to teach it.
Relating to the article, it mentions D'Quell being 240. He has been listed as 240 since around training camp last year. 
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Yes I do expect Mel to make sure our DL knows what the heck they are doing. Do I expect Mel to personally go and coach them? No, but he's in charge of the defense. It's his job to make sure that every part of the defense is being coached. If all he's gonna do is help our secondary then we'll suck on defense again. He's now the defensive cordinator, the DB coach title is gone. He has to get his hands dirty in everything defense.
He's ultimately responsible for all phases of our defense. He's the defensive manager.
If our DL plays like they did last year (technique wise, cuz theres more talent there) then Mel won't suceed. Good Players + Good coaching = great defense.
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I agree that he has to make sure that all the aspects of our defense are good and ready to go. But from you quote you say that he must teach them leverage. How much do you think Mel knows about leverage? Of course he knows some, but the D-Line coach probably knows a lot more and is much more qualified to teachit.
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Well whoever was in charge last year didn't.
If your defensive cordinator doesn't know every aspect of every position on defense he shouldnt be an NFL coach period.
Regardless Mel is responsible for everything defensive.
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So you think that Romeo is going to teach corners how to cover a wide out? Position coaches are there to teach players how to do things, coordinators main job is to make the plays, the formations, and the scheme. Do you honestly expect a defensive line coach to know how to teach DB's? Or the other way around? Do you think an O-Line coach should be teaching the quarterback? Or the other way around? He should know about those things, but it is not his job to teach them. And if Mel knows more about leverage and playing defensive line than our D-Line coach there is definetley an issue.
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I agree with the premise of your post, but I want to point out some stuff we disagree on............. Quote:
There will be no impact players on this year's defense like Joe and Steiny.
Why can't SR and CW have a simular impact?? Oh I don't think they will, but it is possible...............psst I remember you and me both never dreamed that Joe and ES would be as good as they were last year either. Joe and Steiny controlled the LOS to allow the playmakers an oppurtunity to shine, and CW and SR have the potential to do the exact same thing.........I don't think they will, but they could.
Quote:
Guys like K2 and Edwards matured and started realizing their talent.
Yep and guys like Kam and DQ can do the exact same thing. You mentioned in another post that none of the guys on D have BE and KW2s talent. I disagree.......well with Kam anyway. BE and KW are top 5 at there position, but I think if we ever got Kam some help up front he could be a top 5 OLB. Now does his position give him the ability to have a playmaker type of impact on the game like KW and BE have is another story. However if we are going strictly on the oppurtunity to be top 5 at their position then yeah Kam's got a shot. I don't know if he'll ever get there, but his pure physical talent is in the ball park with any OLB in this league.
You also mentioned better play from the ILBs with the new front, but bro a new front isn't going to give them better instincts and more discipline. Will they be better?? Should be. Will they then be good enough for a good D?? Not even close imo.
Like I said I think we are still going to struggle in coverages, getting pressure on the QB, etc. I am not even convinced that we are suddenly going to be a top 15 D against the run with LBers we have like most seem to think. We aren't nearly good enough on that side of the ball yet to start kissing our own butt just yet, but we are getting there. As I said earllier though, we were both talking last year about how the O was better, but still not there yet. If a couple of things happen just right who knows, hopefully I can eat crow this year as well.
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i don't think our dline problems last year stemed from teaching....they stemed from player heath....old age, and not having enough ultra talented guys...
leverage is gained by strength and technique....
i find it hard to believe that a dline coach doesn't know about technique...so that leaves strength....these guys are all strong....but roye had a bad knee...peek a bad foot...kelly a bad knee...your only as strong as those injuries will allow...
much of the problem was what we had to work with.....the dline coach has more to work with this year...
look at the oline...our coach was from the texans....they have had olines as bad as ours..we get some good players and all of the sudden he gets it? hardly....
sure there are bad, good, and great coaches....but they all need talent to work with....
on top of that, the only great player we really had on d was wimbley....teams can shut one guy down...
its like having a great qb, but no recievers...or a great rb but no line.....it just doesn't work well cause when thre is only one threat you can stop it...once this d has multiple threats, thats when it will wreak havoc....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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If they even play slightly better it'll will move the D up the rankings and solidify the job for Mel at least for a little while. With the addition of two talented big bodies on the line, that's almost guaranteed. It became clear that the Pumpkin' lost the players and Mel seems to have their respect. These two sets of circumstances alone leads me to believe they'll be better. Besides, there's nowhere to go but up, even without the additions of another OLB, ILB, corner or safety, including the loss of Bodden. JMHO
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I do think Williams and perhaps Rogers will really help us. I did say that we will be improved, but Joe and Steiny were tremendous. And I really don't think people realize just how good Joe is....and how much he does for our offense.
I think most of us on the board see what we got with Joe Thomas. He was essential, and there's no draft pick in last year's draft, not Peterson or anybody else who compares to him in my book. Big Joe was the perfect pick and I imagine he will be a Brown his entire career. Joe pass blocks as good as anyone in the entire NFL in my book. Probably the best. It's just those few idiot posters who bring up the likes of Adrian Peterson (who is really good) that don't realize that Joe Thomas and Steinbach changed everything for us.
I think you give Jamal a lot of credit, and I think that he is a pretty good RB. But from what I remember, Wright and Harrison produced when they had their chances too. Many times I was angry that we were running it with him and getting nowhere.
One thing that Lewis does do though, is he really can wear down defenses. That helps us bigtime. I love Jamal in the fourth quarter because he brings the pain when the defense is burnt out.
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I knew someone would say that. But dude, those guys don't have near the talent that K2 and Edwards have. Not even close.
I love how you say such things about Braylon though Vers. I for one remember when you hated the guy and wouldn't stop calling him Leon. This might have been because of your inside connections, but I stuck with the guy. For me, I always thought he was good and would become a fine NFL reciever, hehe.
In the end though, I agree with you. I don't think our defense has.......impact players which will make a turn around the way our offense did. Wimbley is good and Sean Jones is good. But the D-Line will only do so much for us.
I think you will see a much improved defense, but that improvement will merely be from one of the worst to a decent defense. It can't be better than the offense because our linebackers and safeties aren't good enough. Yes, that means Pool, who I think will be better this year but in no way near a top notch player.
Unfortunately, there is no player on our defense who compares to the likes of Winslow (best TE in football in my book) nor with Edwards either. But they don't have to play like the good Ravens defenses or the Bears defense two years ago.
I think a change from bad to good (not excellent but good) should be enough to take us to the promised land. And that's with DA or Quinn running the show.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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I agree with you 100%. Big Ted was old and done, Orpheous was the same, but not to quite the extent. Kelly is a backup at best. The Smiths are both above average, but not too much. Frasier just isn't good. I think that our line and our defense is going to be incredibly better this year, but not because of coaching. Though having Tucker instead of Grantham will probably help some.
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I don't think anybody is thinking our defense is going to be on par with the offense. But like you said, if we move from one of the worst defenses to a decent defense, we could've won 3-4 more games last season. I know this is a different year, and appears to be a tougher schedule, but being that we have the same, arguably better with Stallworth, offense, and a improved defense...we don't have to be scared of anybody.
Of course this is all on paper
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Can u honestly compare offensive talent to defensive talent? I don't think that is fair. How does Polamalu rank compared to K2? Can u do that?
I sure as hell wouldn't do it dishonestly. 
Why isn't it fair? I really don't know what you mean by that.
Yeah, I can compare K2 to Polamalu or whatever his name is. They are both near the top of their respective positions and are game changers. Coordinators have to game plan against them.....as individuals. There aren't many guys that can make that claim. Those two can. Both are difference makers and both can change the pulse of a game in a heartbeat.
We don't have anyone like Tryoy on defense. No.........not even Kam.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Can u honestly compare offensive talent to defensive talent? I don't think that is fair. How does Polamalu rank compared to K2? Can u do that?
I sure as hell wouldn't do it dishonestly.
Why isn't it fair? I really don't know what you mean by that.
Yeah, I can compare K2 to Polamalu or whatever his name is. They are both near the top of their respective positions and are game changers. Coordinators have to game plan against them.....as individuals. There aren't many guys that can make that claim. Those two can. Both are difference makers and both can change the pulse of a game in a heartbeat.
We don't have anyone like Tryoy on defense. No.........not even Kam.
The only way I would say it's not fair, is because the offensive skill player needs somebody else to get him the ball. He can 't make a play without the qb. A defensive player can truly make a play on his own.
However, I do agree with you, because we don't have a game changer on defense. Only two games standout to me last year, and that was Davis in the blizzard, and McDonald against the Texans.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Why can't SR and CW have a simular impact??
Because they aren't quite as good and they certainly aren't surrounded by quality players like we had on offense this year. And I know you won't like this, but the presence of DA was huge for us this year. No backup on our defense can make that kind of impact. And there is no player on D that is as good as K2 or even Edwards.
Btw........I'm a lot more sold on Williams than I am on Rogers.
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Yep and guys like Kam and DQ can do the exact same thing. You mentioned in another post that none of the guys on D have BE and KW2s talent. I disagree.......well with Kam anyway. BE and KW are top 5 at there position, but I think if we ever got Kam some help up front he could be a top 5 OLB.
I disagree. I really like Wimbley and I realize teams game-planned him to death last year, but thus far.........he is a one-dimensional player. That ain't top 5.
I still think you guys aren't understanding that we had multiple upgrades on offense. We've had two on defense. Yep, they will help us. But this defense still isn't very good.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joe allowed us to run formations that we could have never run before.
YOU BET HE DID...
And anyone that had a problem with us passing on that "Prima-Donna" position of RB...Peterson...And even Quinn...Just doesn't understand the guts of football in the NFL...
Now enter Williams & Rogers...
Passan said this and he is absolutely correct...We will see many 4-3 alignments...And if Tucker's smart...Offensive Lines will have one helluva time figuring out who's coming where...
Everyone wants to shout thy mouth off about Rogers and his lack of whatever...How bout the VERSATILITY this line can produce...
Williams can go inside or out...Rogers can go inside or out...S. Smith can go inside or out...And as Passan suggested...How bout Wimbley with his hand down...The possibilities are endless...This is gonna be real interesting...
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I knew someone would say that. But dude, those guys don't have near the talent that K2 and Edwards have. Not even close
And I KNEW someone would say that...
And YOU popped on Edwards for 2 years...Was it "Leon"???
Tell me exactly how much TALENT that guys like Vrabel and Bruschi have...How bout Porter and Kirkland...Yet they were outstanding in the 3-4's they played in NE and Pitt...This goes back to what u just said about in the correct place...DISCIPLINE can far outweigh TALENT in these scenarios...
Go Browns!!!
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I think most of us on the board see what we got with Joe Thomas.
You might, but I doubt a lot of people understand his true value. They see that we had more time to throw last year and that the offense scored a lot. However, I don't think they understand what his presence did for our formations and the number of people we could put into pass patterns. Hell Pete...........they can't see how bad Pool sucks, and what Joe did is way more subtle than that.
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I think you give Jamal a lot of credit, and I think that he is a pretty good RB. But from what I remember, Wright and Harrison produced when they had their chances too. Many times I was angry that we were running it with him and getting nowhere.
One thing that Lewis does do though, is he really can wear down defenses. That helps us bigtime. I love Jamal in the fourth quarter because he brings the pain when the defense is burnt out.
And that is the beauty of a big back like Lewis. You keep pounding them in the face. You might not get a lot for most of the game, but you wear them down. You dominate in the fourth quarter. You rest your defense, and that was huge w/that pathetic group we had last year.
Pete, people on here bitch all the time about DA's second half numbers, but when teams had to scheme to slow him down, it opened up our running game. And Lewis was perfect for the grind-it-out style we needed in the second half of the season. That helped our D. And our second half record was pretty damn good!
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I love how you say such things about Braylon though Vers. I for one remember when you hated the guy and wouldn't stop calling him Leon. This might have been because of your inside connections, but I stuck with the guy. For me, I always thought he was good and would become a fine NFL reciever, hehe.
I never..........NEVER denied that Edwards had talent. I always admitted that. What I said was that he was an arrogant jerk who was killing team chemistry. I'll stand by those quotes.
He's still a bone head.........jumping off sides on running plays, dropping easy passes, loving attention.......but, he makes plays. And he made big plays. Huge! I also didn't hear about all the BS I did before.
One word of caution on him. Go read Toad's post on the Chad Johnson thread. Study what he said about A-hole players when they are winning and losing. We got one of those too. *L*
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I think you will see a much improved defense, but that improvement will merely be from one of the worst to a decent defense.
I hope we can achieve "decent." I think a lot of people on here think we will have a good defense next year. I don't see it. I'm hoping for decent.
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I think a change from bad to good (not excellent but good) should be enough to take us to the promised land. And that's with DA or Quinn running the show.
The promised land? Do you mean the playoffs? You don't mean the Super Bowl, do you? I have to assume you mean playoffs. Then again, I don't see that happening w/BQ. Teams will not respect the big play w/him and that will hurt the running game. And make no mistake, our offensive line is much better at pass blocking than they are at run blocking....although Tucker did help. We also won't have the quick score ability and we are still too boneheaded of an offensive team to rely on long drives every time.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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You are right on with Joe. He had allowed us to not have to keep that extra tight end or back blocking. That means more guys for the defense to cover. Instead of having to keap Heiden blocking we could send him out on a pattern, or have another wide reciever in instead. And of course he gave DA more time and helped the run game as is to be expected.
I disagree with you on our defense. I don't think it will be great or really good, but I think it can be average to above average. Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers will both help a lot with both our pass rush and run defense. Not only can they penetrate, but they free up our linebackers. Shaun Smith has another year in the system and another year of experience. Wimbley and D'Quell have another year under them. Peek is healthy. Pool has more experience, along with Wright, McDonald, and Holly. I have high hopes for both McDonald and Wright. I know that you don't like Pool and I don't think he is the best either, but he is young with a ton of athletic ability. I am hoping  that he has and will improve. Jones is solid as he has been the past two years, though he isn't that great in coverage.
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All Pro
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I think most of us on the board see what we got with Joe Thomas. He was essential, and there's no draft pick in last year's draft, not Peterson or anybody else who compares to him in my book. Big Joe was the perfect pick and I imagine he will be a Brown his entire career. Joe pass blocks as good as anyone in the entire NFL in my book. Probably the best. It's just those few idiot posters who bring up the likes of Adrian Peterson (who is really good) that don't realize that Joe Thomas and Steinbach changed everything for us.
OK, I should let this pass..........but I am not going to.
I guess Iam one of those few.
Look, I DO realize what JT did for us, and I also realize what him and Stienbach give us. One of the best right sides in the NFL. But......
IF he stays healthy, which I realize is still a big question mark. Peterson has the ability to go down as one of the BEST rb's in the game.
Call me an "idoit" all you want, but I still like Peterson, and I am still concerned what happens to our offense IF Lewis goes down for an extended period.
Now, .....I am by NO MEANS saying we should have taken Peterson over JT. I understand why we did it and I am good with why we did it. But because I still like the Peterson pick,.....I am an idiot?????
Now back on topic....sorry for the rant...but I was a pretty ardent supporter of Peterson and I am sticking with it.
Vers, I know JT allowed so much to happen on the offensive side of the ball, and I think I understand why the addition of a quality LT allowed that, but......why won't the addition of quality DL talent do the same thing to our D?
I know I may be streching it with the "quality" part, but IF Rogers can step it up, like many seem to beleive, why won't that open up things for the rest of our D?
I guess I am comparing Rogers to Thomas and Williams to Stienbach.
Is that strechting it to far??????
Let's say they both live up to the hype. Couldn't WImbley be our Edwards (talent wise, not attitude) and Jones be our Winslow?
That is a serious question and comparison (sp?).
And agian, to all of you guys, forgive my rant on Peterson, I just still think the guy has the talent to set all kinds of records IF he can stay healthy. And in saying that, I DO realize he has a pretty darn good run blocking O-line in Minn. with maybe the best OG in the league in Hutchinson. 
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Thanks for the read...  This is a slow time... Pre draft after the initial FA signing period...  I sometimes wonder about the articles that get written... What poeple think is always interesting to read... Pressure on Mel... Well of course there will be prusseure on Mel... That is the nature of the beast in the NFL! Mel is a hire from within. I like the hire. We get a guy who PS and RAC know and he's homegrown so to speak. The B's know what they are getting and what to expect. Mel knows the scheme and what RAC wants. RAC knowd D... Mel has been in the system and has the confidence of the FO and head coach. Other than the normal stress and pressure that D-Cord's are under, Mel will be given a sufficiant opportunity and support to coach up the Browns D... With the new toys the Browns have up front as of now and what will come in the draft and after June 1 the D will have much better talent thant they have since 1999... How anyone thinks we won't be better just on paper with the D-Line acqs the Browns have made is ... The talent available on the front 3 is vastly improved. NFL live game time proven. Our front 3 rotation looks and should be very solid. No matter who says what... The front 3 will free up pressure to come from the LB's and allow the LB's to attack the LOS and make tackles at or behind the LOS. Huge improvement potentially!!! More pressure means more mistakes and TO's. Less time to sit in the pocket and stress the DB's and LB's... No NFL DB or LB can cover well for 4+ seconds for 60 minutes, game in and game out... Jackson flat out has a nose for the ball and can make plays especially in the run game. I hope the wieght won't affect his ability to get to the ball @ point of attack & sideline to sideline. The bulk will hopeully make him stronger so he can shed the wash and fill more effectively. Williams will hopefully take over the other starting ILB spot and continue to improve, I think he can be solid with more PT. Wimbley is well Wimbley and should make more big plays too... We still need another solid OLB, IMO. What we have left on the roster is upgradeable and replaceable... Our D should be fun to watch this year.... We shouldn't be holding our breaths or hoping and praying that they can get off the field... Hopefully we can stop the run and not give up more than 20 per... Some one in this thread was banging someone else for BE's play his first two years...? Well like many of us said he needs to shut his mouth and play... Instead of the reverse... He did that last season and look what happened! I for one am very much looking forward to seeing our D step up and play this season. The Browns should win the North and be in the P-offs!
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Practice Squad
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I'll take it further. The best defenses are the defenses that are disciplined. They know their roles and are not out of position. They are in the right spot, at the right time, to prevent an offense from doing what it wants to do.
I do understand America's infatuation w/aggressive schemes, but sound, fundamental football usually wins.
For this defense to work at its optimum, we must win on first and second downs and then get at that quarterback on third and longs.
Rogers and Williams will help us win in the running game in a big way. And on passing downs we will blitz into a collapsing pocket. The biggest need that we've had in the pass rush is an interior presence. Now we have two.
Rothlessberger killed us by stepping up in the pocket. The middle of our line now has four quality players to rotate and the pass protection will not be as stout against us from guard to guard.
The biggest deliberate improvement for our offense last year was in the trenches. We now have strength in the D trench. With that, we can be very dangerous next year.
T_
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Legend
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Look, I DO realize what JT did for us, and I also realize what him and Stienbach give us. One of the best right sides in the NFL. But......
Left side!
I'm duly impressed with Peterson as well. Who wouldn't be? The boy can flat out run.
I don't know if that would have worked here without the line we have now. And we couldn't have had both.
I'm very happy with how we did it. I like, for the first time in a ZZZZZZillion years, we have an Oline.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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If anything he has less pressure if he will just shut up and learn, insist on more help early from RAC, and blitz responsibly. I think a couple of weeks of solid tackling practice might help, and we can give the ball to somebody on shorter fields and get our D off the field (preferably NOT) by giving up scores) giving O-Unit more scoring opps. I hope he is there this Tucker; I really hated what passed for secondary last year. The line didn/t help and Grantham did little to attack the ball. No lead was safe with the defense repeatedly. PRessure is an NFL requirement for finishing, for taking a stranglehold on the game and at least attempting to cut your opponent's strength by halftime. So I wish him luck; if RAC will finally demand it first, Tucker should succeed! Good Luck & go Browns! 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Left side!
yea, guess I was a little fired up and got myself confused, my wife always says that's not hard to do.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Pressure is REALLY on Tucker
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