DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage's Overhaul Nearly Complete

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theOBR.com Mar 26, 2008

Comparing the Browns of 2004 to the Browns of 2008 is... well... there is no comparison, really. Browns GM Phil Savage is looking to put his finishing touches on a team that has come from 4-12 to looking like a legitimate playoff contender...

The overhaul of the Browns started by Phil Savage when he was hired as general manager in January of 2005 is nearly complete. With the release of defensive end Orpheus Roye last month and the trade of cornerback Leigh Bodden to the Lions, the only starters left from the team Savage and coach Romeo Crennel inherited are inside linebacker Andra Davis and guard Ryan Tucker -- and in 2004 Tucker was a tackle.

The starting offensive line on the final depth chart in 2004 was: Left tackle -- Ross Verba; left guard -- Enoch Demar; center -- Melvin Fowler; right guard -- Damon Cook and right tackle -- Joaquin Gonzalez. Now that group has Joe Thomas at left tackle, Eric Steinbach at left guard, Hank Fraley at center, Tucker at right guard and Kevin Shaffer at right tackle.

The starting quarterback on that same depth chart was Luke McCown. He was backed up by Kelly Holcomb, who was backed up by Josh Harris. Jeff Garcia, who has done an incredible job reviving his career after struggling with the Browns and Lions, was on injured reserve with a knee injury. Crennel is much more content with his current trio of Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn and Ken Dorsey.

Lee Suggs was the starting running back and William Green his backup by the end of 2004. Neither player is still in the NFL. The Browns might be thin on the bench now, but they have Jamal Lewis as a starter, and that puts them far ahead of where they were when Savage and Crennel took over.

Including tight end Kellen Winslow Jr., the primary targets for Anderson are Braylon Edwards, Donte Stallworth and Joe Jurevicius. McCown was throwing to Antonio Bryant, Dennis Northcutt, Frisman Jackson and Steve Heiden.

Of the entire 2004 offensive roster, the only player still contributing to the Browns is Heiden. Heiden was the starting tight end at the end of 2004 because then-rookie Winslow was on injured reserve recovering from injuries sustained in the second game of the season.

Changes on defense have not been quite as dramatic, but that is mainly because Savage spent the second and third years on the job reconstructing the offense. Now it is the defense's turn with the additions of tackles Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers.

Still, the entire starting defensive line of Ebenezer Ekuban, Gerard Warren, Orpheus Roye and Kenard Lang has been turned over.

The Browns played a 4-3 defense in 2004. The starting linebackers were Chaun Thompson, Barry Gardner and Warrick Holdman. All three are history with the Browns. Davis was on injured reserve the final five games with a knee injury.

Daylon McCutcheon and Anthony Henry were the starting cornerbacks. Robert Griffith and Earl Little were the starting safeties.

Of the entire defensive group, the only starters still in the NFL, excluding Davis, are Henry, now with the Cowboys, and cornerback Michael Lehan, a backup with the Browns in 2004 who started 14 games with the Dolphins in 2007.

PLAYER NOTES

--The Browns' offseason strength and conditioning program began on March 17. Among the encouraging signs is Kellen Winslow Jr. is on schedule in his rehab following knee surgery last month.

--Two players who had recently visited the Browns, DB Benny Sapp and LB Clark Haggans, didn't get what they wanted from the Browns and have moved on to visit other teams. Browns GM Phil Savage is being careful how he spends the team's remaining room under the salary cap.

--Center/guard LeCharles Bentley is rehabbing in Arizona rather than with his teammates at the Browns' complex in Berea, Ohio. The workouts are not mandatory, so the Browns cannot insist on Bentley being at team headquarters. Bentley has missed the last two seasons from complications stemming from a torn patellar tendon in training camp in July, 2006.

--The Browns are in the market for linebackers and they know Takeo Spikes well from his days with the Bengals, but Spikes is not high on their wish list at this point. Spikes was released by the Eagles after failing their physical because of a shoulder problem.

--The Browns are hopeful of being rewarded with a home Monday night game after finishing 10-6 last season. They have played on Monday night only once since their rebirth in 1999 -- a 26-20 home loss to the Rams on Dec. 8, 2003.

QUOTE TO NOTE: "Travis Wilson, Syndric Steptoe, (and) Steve Sanders -- I think those three will really be in a fight for that last (receiver) role and I think all three of them have been talked to about the competition that they're going to face in terms of trying to secure that final roster spot." -- General manager Phil Savage on the fate of 2006 third-round draft choice Travis Wilson.

STRATEGY AND PERSONNEL

Very quietly yet very deliberately, Browns owner Randy Lerner is working on a contract extension for general manager Phil Savage. Savage, currently signed through 2009, is working on his original contract.

Lerner stuck with Savage (and coach Romeo Crennel) when the Browns were 4-12 in 2006 after a 6-10 season in 2005. Now that the Browns appear to have turned the corner, Lerner wants to bring Savage's contract duration in line with that of Crennel. Crennel signed a two-year extension through 2011 last month.

"(Savage's) extension is simply to keep continuity at the Browns," Lerner said. "Since his arrival we have improved. He and Romeo deserve the credit for the development of the team and the performance that was achieved this last season. In that light, I'm eager to secure these guys for the long term."

In three-plus years on the job, Savage has just about turned the roster over completely. Only seven players remain from the team he inherited -- tight end Kellen Winslow Jr., safety Sean Jones, long snapper Ryan Pontbriand, linebacker Andra Davis, tackle Ryan Tucker, tight end Steve Heiden and kicker Phil Dawson.

Link

Takeo Spikes? hmmm... Don't really want him, but I know a lot of you will say that he is better than Davis....

I will say... No thanx!!!

The premise of this article, which is Savages make over, is accurate. But I always have a problem with writers that don't get the little things right. Makes me wonder about the bigger things they talk about.

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the only starters left from the team Savage and coach Romeo Crennel inherited are inside linebacker Andra Davis and guard Ryan Tucker

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To be sure, the list is getting shorter and shorter, but how do you forget a ProBowl Long Snapper and a Pro Bowl TE.. Pontbriand and Winslow.

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The starting offensive line on the final depth chart in 2004 was: Left tackle -- Ross Verba; left guard -- Enoch Demar; center -- Melvin Fowler; right guard -- Damon Cook and right tackle -- Joaquin Gonzalez.

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I know it might be nitpicking,, But Jeff Faine was our center.

I guess if you gotta cover all the teams, it's easy to get those little things confused. But it seems to me that if you want people to take you serious, you gotta work harder as a journalist to get things right..

Just My Opinion however.

I still have a problem with people saying how thin we are at RB. Do we have pro bowlers backing up Lewis? No. But I think Wright and Harrison fill the role just fine.

Daman...........I agree w/you in principle, but the author was actually correct.

He was referring to guys that started at the end of the season. Guys like Winslow and Faine were injured. That's why if you look at some of those names........they look even more pathetic than even we remembered them.

I believe the author knowingly is trying to deceive people. By using only the players who started at the end of the year, he can make his claim of a nearly complete overhaul seem more dramatic.

You know something........I just went back and looked at the article again. He is mixing and matching things. Wow! I guess he wasn't correct after all. I think I know what he was trying to do, but he wasn't consistent w/it. What a terrible piece of journalism. Take a look at this one:

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Of the entire defensive group, the only starters still in the NFL, excluding Davis, are Henry, now with the Cowboys, and cornerback Michael Lehan, a backup with the Browns in 2004 who started 14 games with the Dolphins in 2007.

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At one point, he has Davis as a starter, then he says he was not a starter because he was injured, but here he is a starter again. Then.....he includes Lehan as a current starter, even though he was a backup in Cleveland, yet he omits Sean Jones, who is a starter today in Cleveland! LMAO.......what a bozo.


Isn't the OBR one of those pay sites who hire reporters that can't get jobs w/legitimate newspapers? Is that were some of our board members get their "inside" information?

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I still have a problem with people saying how thin we are at RB. Do we have pro bowlers backing up Lewis? No. But I think Wright and Harrison fill the role just fine.

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Wright and Harrison may be OK for a game or two, but what happens if Lewis goes down for an extended period?

Wright is a decent runner. He follows his blocks and gets what yrds. he can. But he is NOT a game breaker and does not have any big play ability. Granted, he doesn't fumble and he doesn't make many mistakes, plus .......he blocks pretty darn well.

I like Wright, but I don't want to rest our running game on him.

Harrison has shown flashes of big play ability. But there is a reason we haven't seen more of him. I think a big part of it is that he can't block. Also, I don't think we have seen alot of him in the two back formations, is that because he doesn't do well with a FB in front of him? I honestly don't know. We also haven't seen enough of him to know how he takes a hit and holds onto the ball, maybe that's another reason we haven't seen more of him? Pure speculation on my part on that one but there has to be some reason we don't see more of him, because what little we have seen..........he has shown some nice flashes.

Look, I like Lewis, alot,......but he is getting real close to that age when RB's start to lose a step or two. He also has ALOT of miles on his legs. Remember, he was B'mores offense for several yrs.

I also like Wright and Harrison........as depth. As we stand RIGHT NOW, I don't think we have to have a RB, but I also don't think Wright and Harrison can carry the load like Jamal did for us at the end of last yr.

JMHO, which some may beleive is idiotic (GM ).

I agree with you that Wright and Harrison are not game breakers (although whenever Harrison gets in the game, he always seems to pick up some good yards. But, I know there's more to being a RB than running).

However, that's why they're not starters. I guess when I think of being thin at a position, it's either because there's just not many guys (I think we're thin at CB for this reason), or because the backups are not very good.

We all know Lewis isn't getting any younger and that we'll be moving toward getting a marquis RB in the next couple years. But to say we're thin at RB right now is a stretch, IMO.

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We all know Lewis isn't getting any younger and that we'll be moving toward getting a marquis RB in the next couple years. But to say we're thin at RB right now is a stretch, IMO.

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Fair enough.

I guess I am just hung up on Lewis, I am just scared to death that something may happen to him this yr., and if it does, as we stand now, I feel it will really affect our offensive game plan.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY hope I am just being paraniod, hopefully I am way off base and Jamal has another healthy, great yr.

Oh, and I agree wholeheartedly about being thin at CB, as we stand right now, if Wright, McDonold, or Holly goes down.......we're in deep dodo.

Wright and Harrison may be OK for a game or two, but what happens if Lewis goes down for an extended period?

Wright is a decent runner. He follows his blocks and gets what yrds. he can. But he is NOT a game breaker and does not have any big play ability. Granted, he doesn't fumble and he doesn't make many mistakes, plus .......he blocks pretty darn well.

I like Wright, but I don't want to rest our running game on him.


I totally agree with that...Wright is backup material but not a 16 game go to guy.
IF we would have had our third pick I think a back would have been selected.

I was kinda hoping you'd come around to my way of thinking on that

Yeah, this is a hatchet job and what really bothers me is that there really isn't a need to mispresent the facts as they really are.. The TRUE, UNBLEMISHED, UNALTERED facts paint the picture that the author is clearly trying to paint.. That is that Savage has dismantled the team he inherited and rebuilt it the way he feels it should be.

Oh and yea, I also forgot Sean Jones as a holdover from the Davis era. As for former Browns defensive starters, he forgot Big money, Gerard Warren. Unless I just missed something, isn't he a starter in Oakland? I could be wrong about that. I really try not to think about him at all.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the OBR the site formerly known as Bernies Insiders?

They do sometimes have interesting twists to stories. But if you check my history on here, you will see that I am skeptical of all Sports Writers.. ALL OF THEM..

NRTU Daman,

I guess the more I think about it, where are we deep at?

It's not just RB and Corner were an injury could REALLY affect our season.

If we lose Edwards for any length of time we could be hurting.

We now have 4 quality starters on our D-line, but that's about it, what happens if one of them goes down? Our "rotation" is shot to hell.

Our LB core is nothing spectacular right now.....but imagine if Wimbley goes down .

Believe it or not, our deepest unit may be O-line.......isn't that nice to say.

I know I am kinda going on a tangent here, and I know most teams in the NFL can't afford injuries in any key positions, but I guess my piont (if there is one) is that while we may be an "up and coming" team.......we still are an injury or two away from trouble agian.

I know Rome wasn't built in a day...........I guess I am just thinking out loud.

He also forgot Phil Dawson

I Disagree: We have depth at RB, Jason Wright and Jerom Harrison played very good when asked to last season.

Also until Wimbley starts playing like a top 15 pick he wouldnt be over missed. He had little impact last year, teams weren't double teaming him. We need Linebackers very bad though, we need an ILB and OLB which doesn't look like will happen except for the draft.

As for corner, we have 3 good corners. Plus we have baxter and Kenny Wright, and possibly Brodney Pool. We will draft a corner in the draft to add one more emergency guy.

All in all I can't say too much bad about Phil, yes some critize our depth but our starters are pretty good everywhere but linebacker.

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I Disagree: We have depth at RB, Jason Wright and Jerom Harrison played very good when asked to last season.

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So you wouldn't be overly concerned OR think that teams would gameplan us differently if something happened to Lewis?

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Also until Wimbley starts playing like a top 15 pick he wouldnt be over missed. He had little impact last year, teams weren't double teaming him. We need Linebackers very bad though

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While not an all-pro (yet), Wimbley may be our best LB, and yet he wouldn't be missed?

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As for corner, we have 3 good corners. Plus we have baxter and Kenny Wright, and possibly Brodney Pool. We will draft a corner in the draft to add one more emergency guy.

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We have one good corner in Wright, a decent corner in Holly, and though MacDonald Played extremely well in spots last yr., do we know if he can handle full time duty (the same could be said for Holly). Kenny Wright is pretty much just an Stop-Gap, and Pool.........well, he has done it before and may be able to step in agian if pressed, but I wouldn't count on him as a full time CB either. Is that the depth you are talking about?

We NEED a strong veteren presence at this position, and it is NOT Kenny Wright.

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All in all I can't say too much bad about Phil, yes some critize our depth but our starters are pretty good everywhere but linebacker.

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I am NOT critizing Savage, I think he has done a GREAT job with the team he inhereted. I just beleive that while we are definatley improving, and could make a decent run this yr. IF some things fall into place, we still have a little ways to go before we can be considered CONSISTANT contenders.

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He also forgot Phil Dawson

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So did I

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Also until Wimbley starts playing like a top 15 pick he wouldnt be over missed. He had little impact last year, teams weren't double teaming him. We need Linebackers very bad though, we need an ILB and OLB which doesn't look like will happen except for the draft.

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When you say that, it kinda makes me think that you think it's all about the LB's and the Line has nothing to do with it. I think you might want to rethink that stance on Wimbley. I believe you are WAY off base.

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So you wouldn't be overly concerned OR think that teams would gameplan us differently if something happened to Lewis?

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Honestly no, Jerome Harrison and Jason wright could carry the load for this team. Both played great last season. I think it's gonna alot more split carries this season. Jerome averaged 6.7yds a carry. Jamal isn't young anymore plus we havent seen Jamal play after getting his dough(Rueben Droughns).

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While not an all-pro (yet), Wimbley may be our best LB, and yet he wouldn't be missed.

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Well he's kinda the tallest midget right now. Would he be missed? yes. Would it have a noticable impact on our D? no. DQ going down would hurt the most. Dra, Willie, Peek all suck.

I think we already have 2 veteran presences at corner, baxter and Wright have played. Brandon McDonald was tremendous last season, he showed just how bad Leigh Bodden was last year.

I highly doubt we do anything at corner but draft one. Baxter will be given his shot, if nothing else hes the vet back there.

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When you say that, it kinda makes me think that you think it's all about the LB's and the Line has nothing to do with it. I think you might want to rethink that stance on Wimbley. I believe you are WAY off base.

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I'm not way off base.

Wimbley couldnt beat his man last season rushing the passer, he was on the ground way too much. He didn't devolp another move to make tackles respect so he could rush outside.

Would a great DL add a few sacks? Yes but that still doesnt make Wimbley a great 3-4 OLB. When you watch his game compared to DeMarcus Ware and Shawn Merriman as a pass rusher he has similiar talent but doesnt dominante his man like they do. There is no physical bull rushing abilitly shown. You look at the other great 3-4 OLB's yes they can be finesse rushers but more often use speed and then finish by simply overpowering their guy. Wimbley has alot to show. Maybe its coaching I dont know.

Secondly Wimbley has no discipline, he overuns everything and is a sell out against the run. Sure out DL hasn't been good but you canrt just right off our LB's. The DL has nothing to do with being where you should be and how you tackle.

Obviously an improved DL will take his sack total up but it doesnt fix his point of attack abilities or his discipline.

Good article. Really puts the overturn into perspective. Anybody else glad we stuck with Savage and kicked Policy to the curb during their little spat?

I think he means Collins.

I would rather see us tackle and catch the ball; it is a performance art this pigskin. And we played pretty bundt ugly pretty regularly. I want to be excited to watch us this year. We were cheering for first downs fer cryin out loud. That would be like the highlight reel near the end. I want better ball, scoring and pressure on Deefense. Get some notches!

Just clicking...

Let us not forget some of Savages best work...the replacement of the offensive coaching staff a year ago.

Savage went after Chud, and got him...and IMO, that was the key addition to the offensive team last season. New Oline coaching staff that turned the Browns offensive line from one of the worst to one of the best in one year...remarkable!

New WR coach and a new RBs coach also helped turn the Browns offensive unit around.

ALSO...

In Savages first year he was saddled with a boat anchor named John Collins. By all indications, Savage's first season was a rocky one as a power struggle developed between Savage and Collins... won by Savage and Collins was no longer part of the Browns organization after Jan, 2006.

From that point forward, Savage has had the support and resources of the entire organization behind him. It was the move that allowed Savage the freedom to be as aggressive as he needed to be, during the rebuilding process.

ALSO...

Savage inherited a front office and that needed rebuilt from player personnel to the scouting staff to senior management to the equipment manager. Savage has hired some very good people to help and support his efforts to return this franchise to creditability.

Phil Savage is Lerner's guy too. Make no mistake about it, this is the man Randy Lerner wants making the decisions. Lerner believes in standing back and letting people do what they do best and supporting them in any way he can.

It is no accident that this franchise turned it around last season. Looking at all the changes made in the last year or two and one can see how the moves in player personnel, coaching staff and front office kind of all gelled last season.

I believe Savage is the type of guy who won't rest until he has achieved his goals...and his goals are the same as ours. Savage has earned all the accolades he has received too. He the key ingredient in the Browns turn around.

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I'm not way off base.

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The good thing is, this is america,, your allowed to have an opinion,, and I don't have to agree with you.. and I don't!

Yeah, he means collins

What a difference from our decision makers now, compared to when Botch was in charge. Good job Randy L., for giving BD enough rope...

Did anyone but Damon and I really read this article?

Hey wait a minute didn't like two or three posters on here post a thread eerily similar to this topic about a week ago....?

I think that happens too....

A few years ago, I was pimping Chris Barclay, who has no ties to Ohio at all, and then he ends up on the front page of ClevelandBrowns.com... coincidence? lol...

you knew what i was talking about... even though i didnt

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How can you, of all people, forget about all the numbskulls on this board?

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Hey Hey,, I resemble that remark Nuck Nuck Nuck!

Everybody seems to be forgetting that the D-line is not yet set. We are really still need two more D-lineman.

for what? Depth and rotation? I agree if that's what your saying.

For rotation AND depth