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I
Generally, the economy is in the shape it's in for very simple reasons. Our leaders and govt have been living/spending way beyond their means for nearly 8 years now.
8 years?  Try about 30 or 40 years, if not more. And it's not just gov't. - it's the citizens as well - you know, the ones that want everyone else to pay more in taxes so that they can get things for free.
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I agree w/you guys about keeping our money w/in our borders. But, I also think it way past time to quit borrowing money from other countries to finance the war.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I think it's interesting that you think that it's the schools responsibility to teach our youth about money, finances. Is it the schools responsibility? You want the schools to do everything... Yet you don't believe teachers are qualified to teach the basics...?
No, that's not what I said... what I said is that I find it odd that they want to teach about "real world" moral issues like sex and drugs but they don't really touch on money and debt and savings. and I used the operative word "IF" they are going to teach about moral issues, shouldn't finances be included... I didn't say or imply that I WANT them to teach about any of that stuff...
And for the record, I think teachers are absolutely qualified to teach the basics, if only the bureaucrats would get out of their way AND LET THEM TEACH.
Many teachers could teach the basics. My girlfriend teaches Family and Consumer Sciences but due to having to teach to the standardized tests, she can spend very little time on money and finances...
So, it's very possible but with the brilliant no child left behind stuff, there's simply not enough time.
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I think it's interesting that you think that it's the schools responsibility to teach our youth about money, finances.
Some of it should be part of the curricullum. They teach math, reading, writing, history and science. Why not a couple weeks of economics and simple finance in a social science class? My teacher did it 1984. We went over check writing, opening differnet types of bank accounts, investment vehicles (like CDs, stocks), mortgages and interest rates for a few days.
The parents can try to teach their kids the responsibility parts.
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Guys......just so you know. DC and I had a conversation in a PM. Believe me when I tell ya'...............DC is not against teachers. Quite the contrary.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Guys......just so you know. DC and I had a conversation in a PM. Believe me when I tell ya'...............DC is not against teachers. Quite the contrary.
I know that.
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Maybe it's about time the rest of the world fends for itself......
I've been saying this for years. Of course, if we do that, we'll be even more hated than we are.
The rest of the world may well rejoice that we're getting out of their hair.
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Some of them will.. those who rely quite a bit on our charity will probably not.
yebat' Putin
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True.
Of course, it's not that simple. We believed before WWII that the rest of the world wasn't our problem. It has a way of becoming our problem if we don't pay attention.
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I chose to go back 8 years... Is our economy not worse today than it was 8 years ago?  If you are going to repost repost everything... Not just the bits and peices you want to or understand... Did I not write that the "people" aren't paying themselves first? Read man read...  Budgets are real and do matter... Budgets aren't guide lines. Spend and spend some more never has worked and won't at any time in the future.
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NICE Reply!  I'm not sure that teachers should be teaching sex Ed and or drug Ed either... But someone has too... I have always wondered why balancing a check book, what interest is, basic budget management and some basic managing you money isn't taught. When I've asked about why, it seems to be a budget, curriculum and teacher availability thing. A lot of education just doesn’t happen at home anymore... Which is too bad...? Schools can't teach everything... But how do they choose??? I'm glad you clarified the bureaucrats vs. teacher capability thing... Our past discussions about education/teaching have had a much different tone that your reply here...
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I'm not sure that teachers should be teaching sex Ed and or drug Ed either... But someone has too...
Uhhh, parents.
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I have always wondered why balancing a check book, what interest is, basic budget management and some basic managing you money isn't taught. When I've asked about why, it seems to be a budget, curriculum and teacher availability thing.
And the fact that they have to teach for standardized testing. That leaves little time for real life stuff.
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Schools can't teach everything... But how do they choose???
Teach about REAL life things. Stuff these kids will face later on, not a bunch of junk they'll never use again.
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Our past discussions about education/teaching have had a much different tone that your reply here...
If you're talking about the homeschooling thread, he had the same tones...they were just being overlooked. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Teach about REAL life things. Stuff these kids will face later on, not a bunch of junk they'll never use again.
Please don't start this junk again.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Don't look at me...I was just responding to a comment. Boise and DC were the ones bickering about it...why not get on them if you're going to try to tell us how to post?
Last edited by DawgMichelle; 03/28/08 08:26 PM.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I can give you many examples of those with over 700 scores that got hit by those same creeps. It wasn't just those with less than perfect credit...it was the monthly payment they saw and said, "Hell, Yeah!!" The somehow missed the part where it would adjust.
yes yes, this is also very true. Point is, a greedy person came up with a plan and put it in motion.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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There are a number of areas where this country needs help, the challenge is that the politicians are too busy flaming their fellow legislators and taking ideological positions than coming up with solutions.
Government by its very nature is slow to react, that is the problem, imagine how far any sort of energy reform would go if gas was still $1.40 a gallon. Until we as a country become energy independent, we will face a challenge. However difficult the issue seems, there is a very plausible resolution, market forces will ultimately determine the cost of energy, in this case as oil prices, climb, other fuels and forms of renewable (e.g ethanol, coal) and green energy (wind, solar, hydroelectric) become more cost effective. I think that there is still a need for development of green energy technologies, as renewable energy is a patch, not a fix. High energy prices have finally begun to drag the economy down.
One cannot look at the economy without realizing that the cost of war is a terrible way to spend money. Right now we are financing the war through increased national debt. I really wish we could get the balanced budget amendment passed, with a provision that it would be released in the event of a declared war.
Trade policy is another area that is overlooked. NAFTA is not the problem, our trade deficit with Mexico and Canada is peanuts in comparison to that of China. I heard today that our deficit with China is roughly 2 billion dollars per day. Think about the impact that this has on the US. For all the free market rhetoric the reality is that we have lost tons of jobs to China, and that until they become an equal partner, we should eliminate the benefits associated with trading with countries that we have a disproportionate balance of trade. I am amazed that there was no action against the import of toys and medicine that did not meet US standards.
Immigration also is a challenge that we face. I laugh at the thought of anyone who really thinks that we can simply as 12 million people to leave the country. Yet employers, states and police have no right to question ones citizenship. There needs to be legislation that documentation of a Visa should be held by anyone in the US. I don’t care about the driver license issue, they can be clearly issued to a Visa holder as long as they have a Visa. There should be a special license for the license issued to the Visa holder (green?) so that it is known that they are a foreign citizen residing in the country.
The mortgage mess is one that confounds me. There has been some pretty unscrupulous activity going on here, and lenders as well as borrowers are to blame. I do not buy the idea that people did not know that they were getting into adjustable mortgages. The loan documentation is clear, or at least the documentation that I have signed was clear as to how the mortgage works. People were also taking equity out of their houses, and there were a number of speculators out there. Ultimately, the mortgages need to be restructured to something that makes sense, In some cases it wont make sense, and then the property may still have to be foreclosed. I don’t understand why a lender would set up a “creative mortgage” with someone that would only qualify on the introductory rate. This stuff is not that difficult to figure out.
Education, well let me just say that I do not blame teachers. I blame parents. It is time to stop blaming the failure of the teachers for a students test scores. Parents should have an active interest in their children’s progress, and if the student is not doing well, then the parent should get involved. Throw away the remove and the video game controller. With respect to higher education, I have a completely different thought. Studies show that the college graduate will earn about $1,000,000 more in their working career than a high school student. I went though college on loan, grants and scholarships, and I can say that the government has been repaid in spades.
Sorry for being so long, and perhaps getting off topic, but I get tired of the philosophy that government is the cure-all, or the uncontrollable beast that should be eliminated. It has its place, but we don’t use it properly.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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There are a number of areas where this country needs help, the challenge is that the politicians are too busy flaming their fellow legislators and taking ideological positions than coming up with solutions.
Is that another way of saying, Too much talk, too little action?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Michelle, you said teachers teach a bunch of junk.
I find that offensive. I do no teach junk. And I do teach things that they can use in life. In fact, I often teach students more life skills than their parents do. It's amazing to me how many dysfunctional families there are. Yet, you always seem to blame teachers for societies problems. And that is junk! It also bothers me that you have insinuated that we aren't professionals. I am a professional.
I was in business for years. I made a lot more money back then than I do now. It isn't even close. The only reason I can "afford" to be a teacher is because my wife is an Anesthesiologist and I invested much of the money I made when I was in business. Most teachers don't have that luxury. And believe me when I tell you, I am held a lot more accountable and I work a lot harder as a teacher than I ever did in business. Yet, some of the public doesn't want to recognize us as professionals.
Let me add this. I am in South Carolina right now and it is a right to work state. Meaning........there are no unions. They over work their teachers. We are required to work many, many hours that we don't get paid for. We get paid for seven hours regardless of whether we work 10, 12, or yes.......even 14 hour days.
In the state of SC, it is documented that 1 of every 3 new teachers leaves w/in 5 years. That's a staggering percentage. A private citizen donated a bunch of land and millions of dollars to build a private teacher retreat. He got the idea because a few other states have made similar retreats for their teachers. This individual said that we needed to recognize teachers as professionals and it was his way of doing something. That was a very generous act, but I know I will probably not use the retreat.
If our society is serious about education and really wants the best teachers, then we need to pay them. And we need to treat them as professionals. Like I said earlier, I can afford to be a teacher. Most can't. And perhaps we need to think more about the individual family for our children's problems rather than blaming the schools for everything. We don't teach junk!. But, we do have to deal w/children like the 10 year old in our district who walked to school from a nearby Wal-Mart. Yeah, he stayed in there overnight because his momma said he was getting on her nerves and she left him there. We do have to deal w/students who bring drugs and booze to school and w/girls whose fathers prostitute them out. Yes, we had an eleven year old in our school district who was caught w/booze. During questioning it came out that her father was selling her to gang members.
We try the best we can to deal w/these problems. And the last freaking thing we need to hear is how we teach "junk" and that we aren't professionals and that aren't preparing our children for life.
Can we improve? Yes.
Should we strive to improve? Yes.
That is why I take classes every summer despite having two separate collegiate degrees and my masters. It's good to keep up on the latest innovations and fresh thought.
But, under no circumstances are we teaching junk. And children are being prepared for their future. Opportunities are there for every child. My children were well-prepared by the public schools. Of course, they didn't have the multitude of issues that some of our population has.
Try this........fix the freaking families [which we are actually trying to do] and quit blaming the schools for everything.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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That was a very good post. Damn good.
I still can't believe that more people are not outraged that we are borrowing money from China and Japan to finance a war that we really will never win. People don't like to look ahead, but our national debt is serious. It is real. And we will pay the consequences.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I've got a couple ideas on how to help this economy...
-I agree wholeheartedly with Peen about pulling our funding out from other countries and investing it into capital improvements in our country. There's NO reason for our infrastructure to be as behind as it is (I've already heard the excuses, our country's too big to upgrade as fast as Europe...I don't buy it). Business is moving too slow with upgrading...we should be off the copper wire and onto the fiber standard 100% by this point. We should have a train system that transports us across the country at 250 MPH.
-We have more oil in Colorado than the Middle East does...I know environmentalists will hate it, but we need to get that oil. Gas is way too high as it is.
-Meanwhile, we need to invest in those "green jobs" that Clinton and Obama talk about. Getting off oil ASAP is HUGE and I'm not sure I trust private business to be in charge of this because they've been dragging their feet too long on it.
As for Cleveland...I have a laundry list of ideas...I know we're not a tourist economy but we sure as hell can do our best to attract tourism! We have stuff all year round!
-Perception is reality, so let's change the perception. I'm sick of the general perception being once you see the "Welcome to Cleveland" sign, letters are falling off of it. Time to market this city differently..."Cleveland Plus" is a great concept by tying in the entire northeast Ohio area, but it's marketing is completely stupid.
-I wanna see tourist videos on public access TV like I saw in Orlando. Videos that highlight the many things you can do not just downtown, but all over the area. (Indians, Cavs, Browns, Legacy Village, Rock Hall, House of Blues, The Flats, Cedar Point, Put in Bay, Pro Football Hall, Alpine Valley, etc.)
-BUILD UP THE LAKEFRONT! And build it up to resemble CityWalk at Universal and Pleasure Island at Disney. Build hotels around it so people have the incentive to stay near there and go there.
-Medical Mart...HUGE for the city.
-Hopkins...for christ sakes this airport needs some serious remodeling. I was in the Charlotte, Atlanta and Orlando airports this week and they all made Hopkins look like a backwoods operation.
I'm sick of the "Woe is me" mentality over Cleveland as a city, not over it's sports teams. We say the city is going to hell fast yet we seem ok with it...why not be ACTIVE AND AGGRESSIVE when it comes to saving this city?
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Just a few thoughts… Generally speaking, when you re-post, please stop only posting part of what is written or only the portions of what is written that you understand... It doesn’t look good when this is done and the answer has been provided or the point made, but it's not seen or comprehended. Answer to Uhh, Parents: was in last reply... "A lot of education just doesn’t happen at home anymore... Which is too bad...?" Hum... Standardized testing are requirements that have to be met, do the teachers get to choose the requirements? No. School is boot camp for life... You learn what you need to know just by being there. Everyone needs to have a basic skill set, knowledge set to succeed in anything in life... No matter where they live in the US or the world… “Teach about REAL life things. Stuff these kids will face later on, not a bunch of junk they'll never use again. “ Like what specifically? What is each child going to be when they grow up? How do you apply curriculum to those needs? Those needs would/could include future social, geographic, demographic, financial and economic changes that may take place from the time the 1st grader is ready to go to college. "If you're talking about the home schooling thread, he had the same tones...they were just being overlooked." Obviously some of us, you and I didn't overlook them...
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NICE!  This was my reply to DC... "I have always wondered why balancing a check book, what interest is, basic budget management and some basic managing you money isn't taught. When I've asked about why, it seems to be a budget, curriculum and teacher availability thing." I truly believe most parents try to teach responsibility. Not all but most.
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Outstanding post!  One of the best I've read here, non football related in a very, very long time.
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Michelle, you said teachers teach a bunch of junk.
That's not what I said, Vers. Stop being so defensive when people use the word teach. School systems teach a bunch of junk. Teachers go along with it because they have to. Better?
You act like I don't believe in teachers or something. Hell, Vers, my early major in college was elementary ed. Half my family are teachers (retired/current/certified working in other fields). I love teachers. I don't think they get enough credit or earn enough money. I also think *most* do a bang up job given what they are required to do. I WISH they had more free will to teach what they want to instead of what they're told to, but they don't.
My beef isn't with theachers or educators in the least.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Generally speaking, when you re-post, please stop only posting part of what is written or only the portions of what is written that you understand... It doesn’t look good when this is done and the answer has been provided or the point made, but it's not seen or comprehended.
Don't get all holier than thou, Boise. It doesn't become you.
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Answer to Uhh, Parents: was in last reply... "A lot of education just doesn’t happen at home anymore... Which is too bad...?" Hum...
I was agreeing with you...get it?
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Standardized testing are requirements that have to be met, do the teachers get to choose the requirements? No.
Where did I say otherwise?
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School is boot camp for life... You learn what you need to know just by being there. Everyone needs to have a basic skill set, knowledge set to succeed in anything in life... No matter where they live in the US or the world…
I disagree that school is boot camp for life. I do agree that everyone needs a basic skill set.
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Like what specifically? What is each child going to be when they grow up? How do you apply curriculum to those needs? Those needs would/could include future social, geographic, demographic, financial and economic changes that may take place from the time the 1st grader is ready to go to college.
So instead we teach all kids in the same class the same thing and expect them to learn it at the same pace, fall behind, or jump ahead and be bored out of their minds. I don't have answers, but I know what we're currently doing is working all that well when you look at our nations test scores in comparison to others. Seems like there should be a better solution out there somewhere. Teaching (again, not blaming the teachers) to take tests is B.S. in my mind. Guess some find it okay.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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My guess is because interest rates are down. Are you seeing better rates right now?
Yes the rates are better right now, but 65 percent of our business is new car leasing.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Since when has making general statements become not acceptable here?
I don't understand the reasons for, or the need re-posting or re-quoting...? It makes no sense, is a waste of time and proves nothing... Redundancy is a good thing here I guess. I don't like it and never will.
So it's only OK for certain posters here to take a certain tone? Would you mind explaining how that works? How did you get on that list and I didn't?
I believe that I must be missing what your true position and your reasons for those positions are on teaching and education is as a whole. Or you are not sending a clear, definitive message as to what your true views really are. What is your beef?
So you were agreeing with me... OK. Then why didn't you just say so in the first place? Instead of re-quoting what I wrote and writing another redundant comment, that really didn't seem like you were agreeing or got it?.
Standardized testing... Actually in both your replys to me here you made strong statemnets about ST'ing. It seems you more than insinuated your views on the topic. If you read your last paragraph in your last reply, it's clear to me that you do have an issue with this. But no idea's or solution offerings... I'm from the school, no pun intended, that if you don't have any ideas or constructive input on how to improve a situation, you don't get to complain, until you do.
It's cool to disagree... Why do you not think that school is boot camp for life?
Q. Did you attend a public or private school K through 12 or through college? Were you home schooled?
We all have rules that we are have to follow in what ever industry we work in. Teachers do as well. It's up to us or parents to impact what ever changes need made. Until that happens things will remain the same... IMO.
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Clearly you have a bigger issue with any of this than I do as I really have no idea why you are being so hateful in your post. I'll respond later if I feel like it and can figure out what in the hell you're even talking about.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I was thinking after my last reply to you that I was not getting to the next step with you in this discussion. I'm responsible for my part in the lack of communication. You are too. Once you figure out what your position is and have some time to put some thought into some ideas or possible solutions let me know. If you want, if not thats good too...You are going to have to be at a place where you can and will answer questions and help people understand what you mean, think, want and suggest. 
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You are going to have to be at a place where you can and will answer questions and help people understand what you mean, think, want and suggest.
If you get her to do that, you can make millions off of men all over the world with your secret.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I was thinking after my last reply to you that I was not getting to the next step with you in this discussion. I'm responsible for my part in the lack of communication.
Indeed...and only because I don't know where your anger and accusations come from.
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You are too. Once you figure out what your position is and have some time to put some thought into some ideas or possible solutions let me know. If you want, if not thats good too...You are going to have to be at a place where you can and will answer questions and help people understand what you mean, think, want and suggest.
Well, since I believe I made myself perfectly clear I think it's your comprehension that is at issue here. I've read your post a few times and still don't understand what you don't get.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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It's cool to disagree... Why do you not think that school is boot camp for life?
Most of what I learned in school doesn't apply to my everyday life, that's why. Sure, reading, writing, and math do, but other than that, not much does.
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Q. Did you attend a public school K through 12 or through college?
Yes.
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We all have rules that we are have to follow in what ever industry we work in. Teachers do as well. It's up to us or parents to impact what ever changes need made. Until that happens things will remain the same... IMO.
I couldn't agree more. The issue is HOW do parents do that and are they interested or invested in their child's future? As I said earlier, I don't have the solutions. I wish more parents gave a flip about their child's financial future (this is where this part of the discussion relates to the economy, Vers), but I fear most send them off to school thinking they will learn everything they need to know. And, most of us know that simply isn't the case.
Random thought: I don't know how it is now, but when I was in school we took home economics (mostly cooking and sewing), drafting, and wood shop. Why not replace one of those with a beginning personal finance course? Start easy...teach kids about saving money and how savings accounts work. Ramp it up from there.
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Maybe my school was backwards.
But as early as Jr. High, we were given "not in reality but for teaching purposes" a salary, checking account and had to make a budget. Which consisted of rent, utilities, groceries and general living expences.
And many people aren't interested in "getting rich" from learning about world economics. Many simply have a passion for what they do. They love their work and live a much fuller, happier and far more enjoyable life than many who put "the almighty dollar" first.
And many such jobs don't pay enough to invest in a "financial future" to any great degree. But they do fullfill a persons passions and they are happy. I guess it's all about priorities. But who's to say which group truely has "their priorities in order"?
Certainly not me. But to suggest that public education should be responsible, or even their parents be responsible for teaching kids how to invest, play the stock market, etc... is absurd IMO
Hell, most job oppertunities these days often do not afford you such luxuries in the first place. But I'm sure many who post here don't fully understand what the true "big picture" is that is destroying our economy and just how tough it really is for many families just trying to get by with soaring food and fuel costs.
Besides, these "401k's" are a TOTAL joke! You pick "funds" but have NO CONTROL over choosing and buying individual stocks from individual companies. In actuality, it's the people running the 401k's that control the vast majority of those decisions, not those who are actually investing the money.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Besides, these "401k's" are a TOTAL joke! You pick "funds" but have NO CONTROL over choosing and buying individual stocks from individual companies. In actuality, it's the people running the 401k's that control the vast majority of those decisions, not those who are actually investing the money.
So you're saying that individuals should have control over their own retirement funds and should be able to direct it and allocate it as they see fit? What a novel concept.
yebat' Putin
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I think what would be sufficient would be to teach kids what it takes to live life.
Rent, Utilities, Food, Car Insurance Etc. The little things they don't see, all they know if mom and dad go to work, and they have new Nike's. And honestly, there's alot of parents that know nothing of money management and budgeting. Not that they need to learn investing and stock market information. But simple real world life living in a social studies class or something.
Not that I think schools should be responsible to teaching everything to our children, but currently with the lack of parental skills that seem to be evident in our society, someone somewhere needs to find a way to teach these kids this stuff before they are 30k in debt and totally gone. And school is one place you have them to teach.
Rather than spend 4 weeks teaching them the answers to the standardized tests, lets teach them the basics: math, writing, spelling, reading and life.
I recall a budgeting class when I was in school. Don't recall how in depth it was.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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And many people aren't interested in "getting rich" from learning about world economics. Many simply have a passion for what they do. They love their work and live a much fuller, happier and far more enjoyable life than many who put "the almighty dollar" first.
And many such jobs don't pay enough to invest in a "financial future" to any great degree. But they do fullfill a persons passions and they are happy. I guess it's all about priorities. But who's to say which group truely has "their priorities in order"?
Pit, it's not about saving so you can be the next Warren Buffet or so you can make sure you get a job with a huge income over one you love....
It's simply about teaching kids to manage debt, create rainy day savings accounts, start investing (even if it's a little bit) for retirement at an early age, etc... it's not about amassing great wealth, it's about helping kids avoid the pitfalls of poor or no financial planning...
yebat' Putin
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So you're saying that individuals should have control over their own retirement funds and should be able to direct it and allocate it as they see fit? What a novel concept.
As far as "personal retirement accounts", yes.
But as we are now seeing, and it WILL get far worse, the stock market is not "the only" way to do that. Many have built AND lost fortunes that way. As of now and in the foreseeable future, I feel many more fortunes and 401k investments will be "lost" instead of "gained".
That's why we have the Social Security system as a safety net. And it should remain so IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Social Security is system that is not only flawed, but does not provide a sustainable income on it's own for anyone unless you don't mind living in poverty. My wife's grandmother was getting $465/mo SS, her meds not covered under MediCare cost $390.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Legend
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Many have built AND lost fortunes that way.
Not nearly as many as the ones who just built them...
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I feel many more fortunes and 401k investments will be "lost" instead of "gained".
That's why we have the Social Security system as a safety net. And it should remain so IMO
Oh.. well that explains it... Pit feels the stock market is unstable therefore 14% of DC's money should go to the federal government each paycheck so he can enjoy his 2% return on that money when he retires... All so Pit feels better about it..... why didn't you say so.
yebat' Putin
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