Nas, Like I said earlier, I'm a big, big, Buckeye fan. But, this mess with the kid leaving Michigan, the mess with Rich Rod leaving West Virginia, the mess with everything and anything means absolutely nothing if Michigan starts beating up on people again. I really don't know why some people are already taking a position on RR and his program when he hasn't even coached a game yet.
Essentially, who the heck cares about anything that happens in the offseason, it's what happens on the field that counts.
Quote: Essentially, who the heck cares about anything that happens in the offseason, it's what happens on the field that counts.
I dont buy that 100%. Winning is great and all but winning can be tainted by off field issues. Not saying the RR stuff would do that but if off the field issues are bad enough they can tarnish what happened on the field. Do you think Michigan fans look at the fab five years fondly after the Chris Weber scandal broke?? I am not trying to trash Michigan either, that is just a scandal I can think of off the top of my head.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
King, I understand what you mean about off-field issues and all, and I know that you know that RR has not been part of any off field scandal yet, so, given that, what is the big deal with anything about RR and Michigan?
The guy left West Virginia to coach Michigan -don't forget, his last game was a loss to Pitt so he knew that he might not ever get another chance to coach a major program, so he cut his losses and said goodbye to West Virginia-who can blame him?
One of his tenured Juniors didn't like his coaching style so he left - who cares? The kid probably entered a comfort zone at Michigan, Rodriguez had him no-huddle and run all over the field, so the kid didn't like it, so he left. -We are talking about one guy out of how many? -Not a big deal at all.
As I've said before, if RR can win, Michigan will keep him. If he loses, he'll get fired. -Just like any other coach.
Ooof, Nas, as you can tell by several of my replies in this post, I was on your side in this. But, I just read this article, and to be honest with you, what he said at the end is not something a Professional should say. He blatently called out the kid who left. - A good coach would have invited the kid back onto the team, or not said anything about the kid at all. He said it in black and white "your own agenda" -Come on dude, this is a 20 something we're talking about here.
Rodriguez answers claims about Michigan's lack of family values ESPN.com news services
Updated: March 30, 2008, 10:11 AM ET Comment Email Print Michigan football coach Rich Rodriguez responded Saturday to recent allegations from a now-former player that his program has a lack of family values.
"I've been a head coach for 15 years," Rodriguez told reporters. "I think we have as close a family unit ... than anybody in the country. Always has been and always will be."
Rodriguez's comments came several days after offensive lineman Justin Boren left the Michigan football team because the program's "family values have eroded."
"I have great trouble accepting that those family values have eroded in just a few months," Boren said. "That I am unable to perform under these circumstances at the level I expect of myself, and my teammates and Michigan fans deserve, is why I have made the decision to leave."
To stress his point, Rodriguez noted in his press conference that his own mother-in-law traveled more than seven hours from her home to spend time with the Michigan team and its coach.
"Family is pretty important to all of us, and every coach can tell you that," Rodriguez said. "Just ask anybody who has played for me in the last 15 years. Don't ask somebody that's left with a different agenda."
Rodriguez took over the Wolverines in December for longtime Michigan man Lloyd Carr.
Quote: Ooof, Nas, as you can tell by several of my replies in this post, I was on your side in this. But, I just read this article, and to be honest with you, what he said at the end is not something a Professional should say. He blatently called out the kid who left. - A good coach would have invited the kid back onto the team, or not said anything about the kid at all. He said it in black and white "your own agenda" -Come on dude, this is a 20 something we're talking about here.
Muni, I agree with what you're saying under normal circumstances but I think you need to take in to consideration what Boren said. All his comments were/are potentially damaging with not only the public but also with Michigan's recruits (current and future). Anytime you attempt to affect a guys livelihood, I would guess you're not going to be cut any slack when someone tees up a ball.
It's not as if RR is speaking about a kid who quit, got his papers and left. Boren stuck his neck out and in my opinion, he can expect it to be chopped off. Is it PC? Probably not but Boren (nor the media) has elaborated on anything he said, which would lead me to believe he got caught up in the heat of the moment and made some comments that maybe weren't entirely truthful.
Boren is a young kid but the minute you open up your mouth and make the vague accusations that he did, you have to expect you'll be tagged as fair game. He was trying to justify why he was a quitter by pinning it on the coaches. Not only pinning it on them but making it look as if they were running a program that wasn't quite on the up and up (in terms of player treatment, etc.) I would guess not too many people would appreciate that on any level to say the least.
Invite him back on the team? Did you read what Boren said Muni? There's not a chance in hell ANY coach in the country would let a kid back on the team that said some, let alone all of the garbage Boren did. It's unfortunate he quit but he opened himself up for criticism the minute he gave his gettysburg address.
LOL invite him back...thts funny muni....why in the hell would you want a kid on your team when he quit on you? not only did he quit he went to the media and said you have no class/family values...thts pretty big thing for a player to say about his coach..
Point taken. I guess RR doesn't want to come across as weak. Essentially, he has taken the "if you're with us, cool. . . if you're not with us, go to he**" Approach. I can't blame him for that.
Like I noted earlier, all of this off-season talk is gonna mean zero if Michigan starts to beat up on their opponents again.
Quote: But, I just read this article, and to be honest with you, what he said at the end is not something a Professional should say. He blatently called out the kid who left. -
I have to agree with Nas on this one. First of all, the kid is the one that spoke up first and he did so with fairly sweeping allegations and very few specifics... second, RR has hundreds upon hundreds of other kids who could either confirm or deny Boren's allegations... as I see it, not a lot of other kids are running to validate Boren's story.. I'm not saying that Boren doesn't have a right to feel the way he does.. he can feel however he wants but if he's going to call out the coach, then he should be expected to defend his statements.
Lineman who left Michigan to play for Ohio State in 2009 Associated Press
Updated: April 23, 2008, 11:31 AM ET
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The Ohio State-Michigan rivalry is about to get even more interesting, now that former Wolverines player Justin Boren has decided to join the Buckeyes.
Ohio State coach Jim Tressel said Boren plans to play for the team after sitting out the 2008 season as required by NCAA transfer rules.
The sophomore offensive lineman left the Michigan program last month, saying its "family values have eroded" under new coach Rich Rodriguez.
In a statement released through Tressel, Boren says he's looking forward to helping the Buckeyes continue their excellence. Boren went to high school in the Columbus suburb of Pickerington.
Quote: Hope Boren is ready for that warm reception he'll get coming back to the Big House in 2009. He'll probably start crying after he hears a few f-bombs.
Yeah and what about everybody besides RR?? Umm nice what the poud UM program has turned into
I dont care for this at all, if he isnt good enough to make it a UM he sure isnt good enough to play at TOSU.
Welll maybe having a good coach who can suit a system to fit his players talents will help turn him around.
KING
Last edited by kingodawg; 04/23/0801:28 PM.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Quote: It's only fitting that a player that was too soft for RR's new system would end up going to TUOS.
I also would like to point out who started the smack talk in the rebirth of this thread, I dont care, doesnt bother me ,but I dont want to hear any crying UM fans complaining about TOSU fans sturning this into a smack fest.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
I'm a Buckeye and I have a slight problem with this happening, it's like I dont know it's just not right....He's wore the sponge Bob yellow & blue jersey and now wants to put on the Scarlet & Grey.....it's just not right, being a Buckeye is special he made his choice and went North....It's kinda like having Bin Laddin ask if he can come out of hinding and become an American citizen,
I have stated and will restate that I respect Tressel and think he's a class act.. but this really calls into question what this kid first said when he decided to leave about loving Michigan and that he would always respect them and blahblahblah, he just didn't like RR.. so then he up and leaves for their arch rival? Is that always respecting Michigan?
Looks to me more like the kid from Columbus was just homesick and realized he might not have made the best decision in the first place for himself and rather than just admit he wanted to go to OSU, he made up some story about RR so he didn't look bad... just my opinion.
I mean if a kid loves UNC, the school and the program but can't get along with Roy Williams, he doesn't transfer to Duke. I just can't see it happening.
I do believe his dad played at UM so maybe he chose them because of his dad but he wasn't totally satisfied with the program himself and used this as a way to back out without hurting his dad by telling him he didn't want to play for his alma mater.
You could be right. Maybe he had aspirations to play at Ohio State and needed a reason to get there. Maybe he took offense to something RR did or said, and that was all it took. Then again, there have been several players defect from Michigan recently.
Boren must be a pretty good player to just get up and be given a spot on one of the top programs in the country.
Maybe growing up in Columbus, it was natural to choose OSU after leaving. Plus, it gave him a chance to go at RR with scUMs biggest rival and twist the knife a little deeper.
Quote: You could be right. Maybe he had aspirations to play at Ohio State and needed a reason to get there. Maybe he took offense to something RR did or said, and that was all it took. Then again, there have been several players defect from Michigan recently.
Boren must be a pretty good player to just get up and be given a spot on one of the top programs in the country.
Considering it didnt cost OSU a scholarship, it was probably pretty easy to bring him on.
Yeah Yeah, I understand under Big 10 rules about the whole scholarship thing. Regardless, not just anybody can pick up and and join a top notch college football program. Boren must be talented.
Nas, I've read this thread and refrained from comment. I will say I have a feeling RR is a snake, and I don't like UM.
Still what gets me is 2X now with both these lineman you totally bashed them but totally supported RR. With no middle ground. You've attacked thier character, thier ability, and just about everything else. You seem unwilling to even aknowledge that there could be some truth here. That is why some are calling you a homer. Not because you support UM, but that. I have to say I find it trouble how you have no problem trashing (20 year old men/kids) them but have a huge problem with people trashing RR. (I'm a man, you want to write about something write about me, I'm 40, I'm a man!!) (ok wrong coach but you get the point.........and I get to trot out that gem!! JMO
Quote: Then again, there have been several players defect from Michigan recently.
Actually, as far as I know, there have been 3 players who have left since Rodriguez got there, and they were all lineman. This may be wrong, but I find it really interesting that all 3 players were lineman, who tend to be the most out of shape players on the field, and when a new, harder training program is brought in, all of a sudden they transfer. Rodriguez has been coaching a long time, and it is quite interesting that all of a sudden he has a "loss of family values" as Boren put it.
Perhaps they are transferring because they are out of shape, or maybe they are transferring because they don't feel RR's offense will help them get drafted onto an NFL club. -I don't know dude.
What matters is wins and losses. If RR steps in and starts winning, nobody is gonna care about his family values. Ohio State needs to adjust to that tricky little offense that RR runs.
Quote: Perhaps they are transferring because they are out of shape, or maybe they are transferring because they don't feel RR's offense will help them get drafted onto an NFL club. -I don't know dude.
What matters is wins and losses. If RR steps in and starts winning, nobody is gonna care about his family values. Ohio State needs to adjust to that tricky little offense that RR runs.
I'll agree with that. There could be any number of reasons for them transfering, and we will never know for sure what those reasons are.
I think you're right and Vers is wrong. It's getting easier for Michigan to recruit in Ohio.
I know if I were a kid coming out of high school I would pick a school where my chances would be much greater to start, or even get playing time. Since it is clear that OSU has had a much better program as of late, the obvious choice would be to go to a second level Div. I school.
I know if I were a kid coming out of high school I would pick a school where my chances would be much greater to start, or even get playing time. Since it is clear that OSU has had a much better program as of late, the obvious choice would be to go to a second level Div. I school.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
Well, if Michigan has an "image" problem it sure isn't slowing down their recruiting at all.
Michigan just got their 6th commit for 2009, QB Kevin Newsome (6'3'', 215 LBS) out of Chesapeake, VA. He's the #39 overall player in the class of 2009 and the #4 rated QB (#2 dual threat). Really smart kid (3.7 GPA), has a great arm and fast. Just won the VA indoor championships in the 55m hurdles and is a bull to bring down.
Newsome's commit is Michigan's 3rd from the Rivals top 50. The throw at around 5:05 is ridiculous. Throws flat footed, under pressure and drops it in to a bucket 40 yards down field for a 70 yard TD.
Quote: Well their still lagging behind OSU. OSU has 11 commits and 6 of Rivals top 100.
A lot of recruiting stuff circulating after Newsome's commit...seems that the snowball is starting to roll on some of the other top players Michigan is on right now. We'll see where we are 10-14 days from now.
I'm just glad the most important piece is already on board. Getting a big time QB was what RR really needed. Up until now, it's what every kept pointing to. Now that they have the stud QB, getting everyone else (WR, RB, OL, etc) on board should be much easier.
Yeah, it's great UM got their second choice to be their QB after their first choice went to their arch rival. Now tell us how much better this kid is than Pryor so we can all have a good laugh.
Quote: Yeah, it's great UM got their second choice to be their QB after their first choice went to their arch rival. Now tell us how much better this kid is than Pryor so we can all have a good laugh.
I'd be a little more concerned about Pryor if I felt like OSU had more of a clue on how to go about using him.
Well, he figured out how to use Troy Smith just fine. But by all means don't worry, be cocky, that way when we smash your team again it'll hurt that much more.
Quote: Yeah, it's great UM got their second choice to be their QB after their first choice went to their arch rival. Now tell us how much better this kid is than Pryor so we can all have a good laugh.
I'd be a little more concerned about Pryor if I felt like OSU had more of a clue on how to go about using him.
Yeah because Tressel has shown such a propensity for not being able to use his players talents to the best of their ability. Michigan got our sloppy seconds once again and somehow the UM homer managed to spin it to make it look like they came out on top.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Quote: Well, he figured out how to use Troy Smith just fine. But by all means don't worry, be cocky, that way when we smash your team again it'll hurt that much more.
Smith and Pryor are two COMPLETELY different types of players. Pryor has run the spread option his entire HS career. Hell, even in the AA game he asked the coach if they could run it, probably because he doesn't really have a grasp on anything else. He's been a 60/40 run/pass player his entire HS career. Pryor is a run first player with average to below average accuracy that's going to try to fit in to a modified pro style spread. I think the transition is going to be more difficult then some OSU fans think. He's a freakish athlete but I'll be curious to see how well he does trying to develop in to a QB.
LOL, once again, in your desperation to minimalize the loss to the scUM, you miss the point. The POINT is that you babble about how great recruiting is going and what a great recruit this kid is. I was just pointing out what everyone not blinded by their own homerism that UM is doing such a great job of recruiting, they had to settle for their SECOND CHOICE for a QB because the guy they REALLY wanted went to their arch rivals. How much simpler can I put it? It doesn't matter if you are concerned about Tressell, which is laughable enough in and of itself, but that he won't be under center for your beloved team. THAT'S the point.
Oh, and I'd be more concerned about how RR's powerful offense does when their not playing in the weak sister Big East. After all, it's obvious that Michigan has a hard time competing against !AA schools, so they better hope that RR is the genius you claim. Of course, had he turned down the job, he would have been an ignorant hillbilly that never really did much.
Quote: [ Pryor is a run first player with average to below average accuracy that's going to try to fit in to a modified pro style spread.
See when you have a good coach that develops his systems to fit his players talents a player will not be forced to try to fit where he doesnt. Pryor will learn some new things and develop some talents but he is not going to be a square peg in a round hole. Tressel will mold that square peg to a certain extent, but will also make that hole so that the square peg will fit into it. Unlike some coaches who will try to make that square peg fit and then when it doesnt scream , cuss, and disrepsect it till it fits his ego.....errrrr system.
KNG
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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