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Awful. Just awful.
If you want to ignore medical help and pray to some god (humanity has invented hundreds, if not thousands, throughout history), fine, but don't do that to your 11 year old kid. They should be in prison.
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Awful. Just awful.
If you want to ignore medical help and pray to some god (humanity has invented hundreds, if not thousands, throughout history), fine, but don't do that to your 11 year old kid. They should be in prison.
Ok how about if they got medial attention for the girl but it was from some type of "alternative" medicine and she still died?? Whos to decide what is the proper course of action and what is not?? What has become the accpeted norm of medicine is not necessarily the be all end all of healing power. I do believe in many cases there are holistic approaches to healing that are effective, especially for something like type 2 diabetes.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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You totally missed the point.  I don't have the time nor the desire to explain it either. Have a nice weekend.
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That's fine Ire, we all draw our line somewhere on these issues. I'm not exactly sure where mine is on this because I think what they did is repulsive and quite possibly criminal... but I'm going to have to think it through before I join the lynch mob....
I would be interested to know a couple facts, like when their faith got to the point where they decided they didn't need medical intervention... because according to the article, they took her for shots when she was 3... so did the faith develop after that? When is the last time either of them went to the doctor? If mom or dad got real sick tomorrow, would they go to the doctor? If you can show, in any way, that they are inconsistent in their beliefs, like mom goes for an OBGYN appointment every year or dad had a root canal recently.. then I might be inclined to believe they should be held responsible...
yebat' Putin
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You totally missed the point. I don't have the time nor the desire to explain it either.
Have a nice weekend.
Well, if I totally missed it, it wasn't a very good point was it????
No time and no desire? Or no explanation? 
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Awful. Just awful.
If you want to ignore medical help and pray to some god (humanity has invented hundreds, if not thousands, throughout history), fine, but don't do that to your 11 year old kid. They should be in prison.
Ok how about if they got medial attention for the girl but it was from some type of "alternative" medicine and she still died?? Whos to decide what is the proper course of action and what is not?? What has become the accpeted norm of medicine is not necessarily the be all end all of healing power. I do believe in many cases there are holistic approaches to healing that are effective, especially for something like type 2 diabetes.
KING
Quite honestly, I'm not sure where the line should be drawn, but certainly it has to have some sort of track record or more preferably some kind of scientific backing. Praying certainly does not qualify. There's nothing wrong with praying but to ignore medical help for your dying kid because you pray hard enough passes the line of criminally insane.
Alternative medicine.. can you be a little more specific or give an example? Do they have to do with spiritual powers or is it just an abnormal approach backed by facts and science? It makes a big difference.
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And for those people wanting to use this as an example of what is wrong with religion, give me a break. If this example sours you on religion, or if it adds to your negative view of religion, that's really too bad and also very narrow minded, in my opinion.
It can be argued that religion is a very narrow minded view of reality.
I refuse to belive my views of religion are narrow minded. I used to be a devout Christian, until I started to learn about other religions, to find out...they all tell the same story. None of which can actually be proven. Adam and Eve...yeah right...that's a narrow minded view of how we came to be. Damn near every religion known to man has a trinity story. Within that trinity story is a virgin birth, and a ressurection (be it physical or spiritual)
I believe there is a divine spirit that allows me to breathe everytime I inhale. But you can't have God's will and fate, and then have free will and choice...they contradict each other.
Religion is just a way for people to attempt to explain what is unexplainable. Nothing more.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Sorry to be mean, but for you to miss it isn't exactly shocking. I see a lot zoom over your head.  Maybe you should think about it, instead of jumping to conclusions, for once. Now damnit! I'm late!!!
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Now damnit! I'm late!!!
OMG! Don't tell me your that pregnant man who used to be a woman but then became a man and now is a woman errrr. man errrr whatever. 
Oh and does Michelle know?
#gmstrong
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It doesn't matter, these people put their daughter's life in the hands of a ghost, the boogie man.
I didn't imply anything about you or the rest of the religious world...
Yes you did imply something about people who believe in a higher power, you stated, and it is in quotes above, the hands of a ghost, the boogie man.
I dont agree with what these people did to that child at all but I am very offended at your insult of mine, and others faith in god by referring to him as the boogie man.
Also, I was not playing the race card. I was pointing out that in past posts, you have complained bout being stereotyped, yet you pinned these nutjobs on religion as a whole. They didnt do what they did because of religion, they did it because they are nuts.
KING
I'll say it again since you don't seem to grasp the concept...I said something about THESE people. You believe in God I'm sure, but you would also seek medical assistance for your sick children...you wouldn't leave it up to some mystic figure. I believe you know better than that.
Now, you did play the race card, you brought race, specifically my race into a discussion that it didn't apply.
I'm sorry if you're offended, but these people believed in the boogie man if they thought that simply praying was gonna save their child.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.
Just a quick question... What Bible and or other religious text are they reading? Was it their choice? Yeah it was. Do I agree with it? Of course not.
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Sorry to be mean, but for you to miss it isn't exactly shocking. I see a lot zoom over your head.
Maybe you should think about it, instead of jumping to conclusions, for once.
Jump to conclusions? Perhaps YOU should re read the thread. I know, I know - in your mind you are always right, regardless.
And then to slam me again by saying that you see a lot go over my head? Total class on your part. 
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Sad. I firmly believe in the power of prayer, fate, God's will, and science. I believe in the freedom of religion and the freedom to choose our courses of action. I just wonder if it was the little girl's choice to go without medical care.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I'm sorry if you're offended, but these people believed in the boogie man if they thought that simply praying was gonna save their child.
I disagree.. God is not the boogie man under any circumstances and "simply" praying has done more good for more people than you can possibly imagine.. Some people who were terminally ill have astounded doctors by achieving full recovery when it was thought medically impossible and devine intervention is often considered the reason why....
With that said, where they went wrong, in my own religious opinion is Luke 4:12 which says thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.... you don't go jump off a cliff and begin praying and then if God doesn't save you blame it on faith... just like you don't ignore simple and obvious medical treatment then blame it on God or your own lack of faith. That would be where my faith differs from this couples, I believe that God created smart and caring people to be doctors and scientists and pharmacists for my benefit and that I'm actually doing Him a DISSERVICE if I do not utilize their talents...
I'm a firm believer in the old adage that God helps those who help themselves.... and the other old adage that prayer without action is meaningless.
yebat' Putin
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God is not the boogie man under any circumstances and "simply" praying has done more good for more people than you can possibly imagine
In this case, yes, he is the boogie man.
And I've heard plenty of stories of the power of prayer. I'll leave my own thoughts out of it, but I'm well aware..you won't surprise me with miraculous stories of faith and prayer...I've heard them.
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I'm a firm believer in the old adage that God helps those who help themselves.... and the other old adage that prayer without action is meaningless.
This is more of a rhetorical question, but feel free to answer if you'd like...but if prayer without action is meaningless, then what is prayer?
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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And I've heard plenty of stories of the power of prayer. I'll leave my own thoughts out of it, but I'm well aware..you won't surprise me with miraculous stories of faith and prayer...I've heard them.
I hadn't planned on telling you any. 
Prayer is a lot of things, I'll tell you what it is to me.. prayer is a request for guidance that my action is as God intends.. prayer is for strength that my action might achieve greater results than my action alone could ever hope to achieve.. prayer is, quite simply, for God's blessing on my decision making and my action.
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You call it superstitions, they call it faith.
Who's to say who's right?
If God appeared before us now, and said, I'm taking this little girl because I need her in heaven with me, would you be fine with that?
I would try to save her. If it was God, he'd probably win. But that's not even close to what happened here.
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I would try to save her.
You would try to save her from God? 
yebat' Putin
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but they have that freedom, and we can't just take that away when it doesn't meet our personal feelings.
When their superstitions endanger the life of an innocent child we sure as heck can take that right from them.
So you think the State has a right to control your religious beliefs?
\
The state already does. Mormons were denied the right to practice polygamy. native Americans were denied the right to smoke opium. Two things much less of a problem than denying your kid life saving medical care.
You can't practice your religion if it involves sacrificing virgins, having big fires in urban areas, having sex with minors or relatives, arranged marraige against the will of the couple, or inflaming people to violently defend their beliefs.
Freedom of religion is not an unlimited right.
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Those are very good points.
yebat' Putin
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I would try to save her.
You would try to save her from God?
I would try to save her from death, and from kidnapping. God, if He exists, has never introduced himself to me. So if I see someone trying to kill or steal a child, yeah, i'm going to try to save her. God, if He exists, would expect no less of me than kindness to children, I should hope.
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Awful. Just awful.
If you want to ignore medical help and pray to some god (humanity has invented hundreds, if not thousands, throughout history), fine, but don't do that to your 11 year old kid. They should be in prison.
Ok how about if they got medial attention for the girl but it was from some type of "alternative" medicine and she still died?? Whos to decide what is the proper course of action and what is not?? What has become the accpeted norm of medicine is not necessarily the be all end all of healing power. I do believe in many cases there are holistic approaches to healing that are effective, especially for something like type 2 diabetes.
KING
Not to argue with the premise of your point, but type 2 diabetes is easily treatable and not some unknown disease to which the modern treatment sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, like, for example, cancer.
One shot of insulin for this kid and she would have been "miraculously" better. I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone worth their salt in the practice of holistic medicines tell you not to give a diabetic child in ketoacidosis insulin.
This story is really eery for me right now. I just finished doing a big research project on ketoacidosis for my work. Sometimes there are diseases for which medicine is hit or miss. But diabetes? Insulin. Always works. End of story. These people killed their child.
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LOL.. I was making the assumption that the fact that he was God was pretty self-evident from the size and the glow... Quote:
God, if He exists, has never introduced himself to me.
We could debate that.
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LOL.. I was making the assumption that the fact that he was God was pretty self-evident from the size and the glow...
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God, if He exists, has never introduced himself to me.
We could debate that.
Honestly, even if I knew it was God, I'd probably try to stop Him. The world he's running doesn't lead me to beleive he's worried about suffering.
And if He's introduced himself to me already, then he's a pretty forgettable deity.
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[Now, you did play the race card, you brought race, specifically my race into a discussion that it didn't apply.
No I did not play the race card, I brought up you not liking being stereotpyed.Thats you, you specfically. It was a racial issue you were being stereotyped on but that is not what playing the race card means. It had nothing to do with race and had everything to do with you complaining about being stereotyped.
Furthermore these people were misguided in their belief that god would heal their child without their helping themselves, they did not pray to a boogie man or ghos,t and you saying they did is implying that all of us who believe in god are praying to a boogie man or a ghost.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Furthermore these people were misguided in their belief that god would heal their child without their helping themselves, they did not pray to a boogie man or ghos,t and you saying they did is implying that all of us who believe in god are praying to a boogie man or a ghost.
KING
You do pray to a ghost. You even call him that. Holy Ghost, if I'm not mistaken. Christians pray to a ghost they've never seen as an act of faith. Just like people who believe in teh boogie man with no evidence are afraid of him as an act of faith. Faith and supersition aren't much different. And God and the boogieman have the same amount of empiracle proof of their existence - none.
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I'm sorry if you're offended, but these people believed in the boogie man if they thought that simply praying was gonna save their child.
I disagree.. God is not the boogie man under any circumstances and "simply" praying has done more good for more people than you can possibly imagine.. Some people who were terminally ill have astounded doctors by achieving full recovery when it was thought medically impossible and devine intervention is often considered the reason why....
With that said, where they went wrong, in my own religious opinion is Luke 4:12 which says thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.... you don't go jump off a cliff and begin praying and then if God doesn't save you blame it on faith... just like you don't ignore simple and obvious medical treatment then blame it on God or your own lack of faith. That would be where my faith differs from this couples, I believe that God created smart and caring people to be doctors and scientists and pharmacists for my benefit and that I'm actually doing Him a DISSERVICE if I do not utilize their talents...
I'm a firm believer in the old adage that God helps those who help themselves.... and the other old adage that prayer without action is meaningless.
come on.. why can't it just be a bad diagnosis or an incredible stroke of luck? How come whenever something amazing happens we have to credit it to devine intervention? There are over 6 billion people in the world, most of which will live the better part of a century. It's a mathematical certainty that there will be things that happen in many people's lives that are so remote that they seemlingly defy probability, but in reality they don't.
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Absence of proof is not a proof of absence. I respect the parents religious beliefs but the kid needed help 
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Absence of proof is not a proof of absence. I respect the parents religious beliefs but the kid needed help
I agree... in situations like these you can pray for devine help... but you should also be praying for the nurses, doctors, and medical team that SHOULD have been taking care of this child... I respect these people's beliefs but totally disagree with them and know that this child's death could have been prevented... and fairly easily... as most have said, diabetes is fairly easy to control with good medical care.
<><
#gmstrong
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Absence of proof is not a proof of absence. I respect the parents religious beliefs but the kid needed help
I can't respect anybody's "religious" beliefs if they willingly put someone in harm's way as a practice of said "religious" belief.
Sorry, but that doesn't fly.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Sure, just like people of religion are better parents, right Arch? What do you think now?
Now, was this called for?  Talk about taking something out of context - geez.
No, but it was fun. That's what you said anyway...religious parents make better parents. Wasn't it?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I never said it was right. Its just not right to judge peoples religious beliefs no matter how crazy it might seem.
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Hey, if you feel implicated, then you must pray to a ghost.
Even other religious members of this board are trying to say that because they didn't belong to an "organized" religion, that somehow they believed in something else...at least that's how I interpret that argument.
If you honestly believe that this god, and only this god has the power to heal, then slit your wrists and tell me if god comes to save you. Or better yet, go down to your nearest hospice and tell those people they need not worry, god will save the day.
It's spookism. Religion has been used to keep people fearful, don't do this or god will be mad at you. But if you live your life right, and something bad happens to you, it's just god's will...that's nonsense.
And like I said, god's will and free will are in direct contradiction of each other.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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The sarcastic tone adds an extra kick to it.
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I think it was said that they didnt belong to a certain church so therefore a particular religion can not be blamed. I never said they were right, I have said several times they were misguided. Stop playing the race card , you said "Spookism" KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Its just not right to judge peoples religious beliefs no matter how crazy it might seem.
But yet it's very okay for the religious to judge. Got it.
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Did I ever say that was right either? Nobody should judge anyones religion.
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I never said it was right. Its just not right to judge peoples religious beliefs no matter how crazy it might seem.
Even if those religious beliefs tell you to strap a bomb to yourself and walk into a busy area?
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Did I ever say that was right either? Nobody should judge anyones religion.
I agree. When people start doing illogical things that endanger or cost people their lives, that changes though.
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I think it was said that they didnt belong to a certain church so therefore a particular religion can not be blamed.
I never said they were right, I have said several times they were misguided.
Stop playing the race card , you said "Spookism"
KING
Who said spook had anything to do with being black? Your slip is showing.
BTW, they believed in the bible, so it's safe to say they were christians
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Parent Choose Prayer Over Medical
Help; 11-Year Old Dies
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